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-   -   Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306386)

Jballer 07-03-2013 01:06 PM

Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
I really dont know despite the Barge and rumored Gay trade.

Curious - what do you think ?

I know lots here prefer to scrap tank and build - but what do you think Ujiri is doing given how he built the Denver team post Melo / Nene ??___

Thinking about the competative landscape..

Play off teams last year:

1) Boston is committed to tanking (Garnett Pierce gone 2014 picks)

2) Philly is committed to tanking (Jrue gone Bynum not signed)

3) Atlanta "really on the fence" if they get Howard they build I guess - if they dont get Howard they tank ? They wont get Howard above Houston Dallas or Lakers as far as I can see.

4) Bucks - Lost Dunleavy, Monta, Reddik...waiting on Jennings to match. Drafted out of left field (Greek Anterkommnu player) dont know what they are doing. I assume they are tanking or at the very least not playoff bound.

___

a) Brooklyn committed to winning

b) New York committed to winning dysfunctuionally again

c) Heat standing pat at least

d) Indiana standing pat at least

e) Chicago committed to winning

___


3 of 8 play off teams in the east tanking

___

i) Detroit building with great core

ii) Washington building with medium core

iii) Bobcats building but a ways off

iv) Cavs building obviously may make playoff run ?

v) Magic building obviously but a ways off

Jballer 07-03-2013 02:55 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Tweets say the Gay trade was nixed right a way...

I am thinking Ujiri is building.

Camby wont report so there is $4.5Million to be moved somewhere plus what other contracts factor in.

bonez26 07-03-2013 07:02 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jballer
Tweets say the Gay trade was nixed right a way...

I am thinking Ujiri is building.

Camby wont report so there is $4.5Million to be moved somewhere plus what other contracts factor in.


Who said Camby wouldn't report?

Burgz V2 07-03-2013 07:11 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
I think he's putting ourselves in a more flexible position with our cap. Ujiri hired a capologist for a reason, to put us in position to make salary dump when we need to. If we aren't playing well by December, I expect a firesale by the deadline.

Still, the summer is still young and many things can still happen, deals can still be revisited etc.

Dr.Funk 07-03-2013 08:26 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bonez26
Who said Camby wouldn't report?



“I have nothing but positive things to say about the city of Toronto and its great fans, having been drafted by the Raptors 17 years ago. Given that my goal at this point in my career is to have a shot at a championship, however, I’ll have to evaluate my options going forward. I’ve enjoyed a great career and under the right circumstances I hope to continue making an impact in the league.”

http://nesn.com/2013/07/marcus-camby...s-last-season/

Jballer 07-04-2013 10:09 AM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bonez26
Who said Camby wouldn't report?



Camby, originally drafted by the Raptors in 1996, isn’t likely to ever suit up for Toronto; he wants to end a long career trying to win a championship. Toronto sources say Ujiri does not yet have a landing spot for Camby but the Raptors GM does have more than a week to find a way to flip him for some other asset. Not doing so risks having to buy Camby out of the last guaranteed year of his contract and get nothing in return for the veteran centre. Toronto Star

From another "internet basketball site not to be named here".

His 4.5 million 2 year deal to be flipped to ? : (1) Denver ? (2) Golden State? (3) I would have said Chicago except they resigned Nazy (4) Miami ? Camby is likely the "3rd best option" once we know (1) who lost out on Howard and (2) who signed Bynum from above.

Bottom line is Ujiri could flip Camby for a draft pick in 2016 or a player especially if he is working on adding Camby to a Derozan contract or soemthing.

I am thinking Ujiri is building and will try to leverage Camby's contract into something as opposed to pay and walk away.

Jballer 07-04-2013 11:27 AM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Carl Landry ??? ....

Might fit in a sign and trade...

I am assuming that Howard wont sign in GS of course.

BoogieWoogieMan 07-04-2013 02:36 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Landry will be joining the Clippers. I would've loved to have him here. :(

Qwyjibo 07-04-2013 04:40 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Charlotte is getting Al Jefferson. The Bucks and Hawks are making puzzling "stay relevant now" moves. Depending on what happens with Josh Smith, you might have three teams that were expected to tank that won't be tanking. Excellent news for the Raptors in two ways. Rudy Gay might have a bigger market with these stupid teams trying to be mediocre. If the Raptors decide to tank, having these teams be better when the Raptors play them 3 or 4 times i great.

Grey Dawn 07-04-2013 06:06 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
I know, let's not quite do either. Drafting later in the lottery avoids the higher pressures of mis-drafting.

Jballer 07-05-2013 10:36 AM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn
I know, let's not quite do either. Drafting later in the lottery avoids the higher pressures of mis-drafting.


Not sure I agree.

If you tank - tank. Unload everything and loose.

Maximize your shot at the top 3 picks.

Rarely can you pick 7th - 10th overall (with a 20th and couple 2nd rounders) and still parley 2 or 3 draft picks into the number 1. Number 1 / 2 / 3 are generally the "transformational player" i.e. Duncan, Durant, Irving. Teams dont trade number 1.2.3.

I mean its not a perfect formula - its a crap shoot- but I think the hit miss percentage of transformation players drafted 7 - 15 is significantly lower i.e. more misses. There are obvious exceptions especially among big men (Oden, Drako M) but the formula is "general".

If we tank move Gay / Derozan / Lowry. Loose.

If we build "Denver style" then keep 2 of the above and lock them in at reasonable contracts and look for multiple lower 1st round picks with "solid contributors" and low cap hits. You end up with a team of 8 guys all paid $7million each but so much depth you cause fits accross multiple line ups.

This as opposed to Colangelo who always seemed to change strategy around key players (1) build a Euro centric team (2) build around Bosh instead (3) Ooops build a Euro centric team (4) oops bring in high profile players for street cred.

I suspect MU is doing the latter... but there is no clear indication other than :

1) More for il Mago < Barges> than I thought we would get albiet a long way off (2016 draft )

2) The need to land Camby somewhere and what comes out of that.

Qwyjibo 07-05-2013 03:03 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn
I know, let's not quite do either. Drafting later in the lottery avoids the higher pressures of mis-drafting.

But it also greatly reduces the talent pool you choose from. I remember reading a study that the expected return on NBA draft picks drops off significantly beyond the top 5 .

It's still on the management to make the right choice and we have to assume they are qualified to do so.

Grey Dawn 07-05-2013 10:03 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Dudes, sarcasm, c'mon. We all know the Raptors routinely do what I was sarcastically saying to do, and they are routinely mediocre.

Qwyjibo 07-06-2013 12:47 AM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Add Atlanta to the list of teams hungry for mediocrity. They just signed Millsap. To their credit, the contract is a good value but I question their direction.

Atlanta, Milwaukee and Charlotte are all signing players and clearly trying to win next year. Tanking is becoming the obvious option for the Raptors.

kmart 07-06-2013 04:31 PM

Re: Is Ujiri Building or Tanking ? Thoughts ?
 
Interesting that Detroit has just added Josh Smith. I would have to think that they are better than the Raps now. Plenty of teams that are better than the Raps, even with Rudy Gay.

Better than us
1. Miami
2. NY
3. Indiana
4. Brooklyn
5. Chicago
6. Atlanta
7. Detroit
8. Cleveland (with a healthy Kyrie)

In the same range as the Raps
9. Milwaukee
10. Washington
11. Boston (if they keep Rondo)
12. Charlotte

Riggin for Wiggins'
13. Philly
14. Orlando

If we just get rid of Gay we'll be bottom feeders :applause:


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