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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Ca$H]1. Luke Walton
[B]2. Keyon Clark[/B]
3. Slava Medvedenko
4. Kwame Brown
5. Smush Parker
6. Bill Wennington
[B]7. Jud Buchler[/B]
8. DJ Mbenga
9. Kevin Ollie
10.Tierre Brown[/QUOTE]
1) How can you have KEON Clark and Jud BUECHLER in your top 10, yet be unable to spell their names?
2) How can you spell "Medvedenko" and "Mbenga" properly, yet not the aforementioned two?
Other than that, your list is really only missing Kandi man
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=havoc33]Longevity is what puts Kobe over Shaq in any ranking. I suggest you read Bill Simmons Book of Basketball. He makes a pretty convincing argument as to why Shaq is not listed higher. Besides, if your only view of Kobe is that of an volume scorer, that really shows your lack of understanding for the game, or you simply haven't been a fan for long. Tell me, did you even follow the NBA from 97-2004? If you did, then you would have a much different view of Kobe as a player and his role on those early championship teams. How he was regarded as the best allround player in the game (next to T-Mac). Any Laker will tell you the importance of Kobe as a playmaker. Although Phil came down hard on Kobe at times in his first book, you will also read that Kobe was their catalyst and floor leader. When Gary Payton faded away under pressure, it was Kobe eventually challenged him and took charge.
It is not a coincidence either that Tex Winter was never a big fan of Shaq, and continuously ended up in fights with him over his lack of dedication to the game and unwillingness to be coached. Tex Winter famously left Shaq off his alltime list, and was quoted as saying he would "expose this guy as overrated".
Our opinions might differ, but it certainly isn't crazy to put Kobe over Shaq, it's actually very reasonable to do so (considering their full body of work).[/QUOTE]
I started watching before MJ's second 3 peat, and I was a witness of Shaq destroying every frontcourt in the league on a nightly basis during his prime, putting an entire frontcourt in foul trouble. Just his presence in the middle is something I have never seen. Shaq had decent longevity too, him being forced out of LA contributed to his decline. Shaq over Kobe for me no contest, you don't have to agree of course.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=AintNoSunshine]Hey fukkface where did he lead his team to while he was padding those averages? [/QUOTE]
2000 he was putting up 23/6/5/2 and was arguably THE best perimeter defender in basketball. Won Championship.
2001 he put up 29/6/5/2 + All-NBA defense in the regular season and than put up 29/7/6/2 + excellent defense in the post-season. Won Championship.
2002 he put up 25/6/6/2 + All-NBA defense in the RS followed by 27/6/5/2 in PS. Won Championship.
2003 he put up 30+/7/6/2/1. Led team to 50 wins.
From 08-10 he put up [B]30/6/6/2[/B] while leading his team to three straight Finals and back-to-back rings.
How the **** is a guy putting up those type of numbers just a scorer, you moron? During that stretch he was simultaneously one of the 2-3 best scorers, one of the best rebounding guards ([I]the best[/I] in 03), one of the best perimeter defenders in basketball, and arguably the most skilled player in the league. How is that "just a scorer", you idiot?
[QUOTE]I ain't even trying to convince fanboys like you anything, your man love for the dude blinds you.[/QUOTE]
Because you have no argument. Every single reasonable fan on this forum would agree that Kobe is much, much more than just a scorer.
Ignorant ass mutha****a.
:roll:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=havoc33]Have you read Bill Simmon's Book of Basketball? It's long, but definitely worthwhile if you're a true fan. He ranks Shaq below Kobe as well, and that was back in 2011. Kobe has only added to his achievements since then. Now the word of Bill Simmons is not all gospel, but he IS very knowledgeable about the game, and he certainly knows more than most people on this board. The fact that he is a self-admitted Kobe hater and STILL ranks him ahead of Shaq I think is very telling.[/QUOTE]
What exactly did Kobe add to his achievements in the past two years? Shaq had three of the most dominant Finals performances of ALL TIME. I don't think I'm going to read a book, so that other people can tell me where to rank players. I saw Shaq and Kobe play and I pick Shaq over Kobe. It's not a slight at Kobe's career either. Kobe is a top 10 player (I have him at 9).
[QUOTE=Jacks3]Because your boy is done as elite player, is nothing more than a side-kick, and just had one of the worst postseasons in history. :oldlol:
Dumass.[/QUOTE]
So mad that your boy Kobe is at home, while Wade is winning more Rings. 21/5/5/2/1 on 52% and he's done? LMAO!
BTW, how does it feel to be a fan of one of the WORST Finals performers of ALL TIME?
BRB, gonna watch the final minute of Game 7.:lol
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=aj1987]
So mad that your boy Kobe is at home, while Wade is winning more Rings. 21/5/5/2/1 on 52% and he's done? LMAO![/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm mad that even though Bryant has 5 rings and has a career that will D-Whistle will never come remotely close to touching. :lol
Meanwhile, D-Whistle wasn't even a top 5 guard in the regular season and than had one of the worst post-seasons ever--16/5/5/2 on historically bad efficiency (49.8% TS). Talk about getting carried. :roll:
Yeah, he's done as elite player, which is pathetic considering he's only 31 and in his 10th season. Kobe in his 10th season: 35+/5+/5/2/56% TS.
D-Whistle. What a scrub.
Dumass stan.
:roll:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Magic
7. Wilt
8. Russell
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Kareem- greatest of all-time big man. Can be interchangeable with MJ.
Jordan- greatest of all-time guard.
Wilt- revolutionized the game. So dominant, he caused change in basketball rules.
Russell- 11 rings in 13 tries. Enough said. Only reason to not rank him higher is because the others have better overall games. BR is probably the best shot blocker to run the game. A LeBron body who played in the NBA and US history's turning era.
Magic- 5 rings in 9 tries in 11 seasons. Greatest passer ever.
Kobe- 5 rings in 7 tries. Greatest scorer of all-time.
Bird- possibly the most clutch player ever. I've seen enough of his games in playback to know he'd be a force to reckon with in any era.
Duncan- greatest PF ever. May not have eye popping, flashy games, but still a great winner. 4 rings in 5 tries.
Shaq- the most dominant player not named Wilt. He'd be ranked higher if he actually bothered to try more often in his career. He came into seasons out of shape, undedicated, and he became a journeyman towards the end, but he still is among the top 10. It wouldn't make me cringe to see him on some top 5 lists.
LeBron- overtook Hakeem. 2 rings in 4 tries, and 4 MVPs in 5 yrs. He'll be reaching the top 5 sooner than later.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
MJ
KAJ
Russell
Magic
Kobe
Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
11- LBJ
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Jacks3]Yeah, I'm mad that even though Bryant has 5 rings and has a career that will D-Whistle will never come remotely close to touching. :lol
Meanwhile, D-Whistle wasn't even a top 5 guard in the regular season and than had one of the worst post-seasons ever--16/5/5/2 on historically bad efficiency (49.8% TS). Talk about getting carried. :roll:
Yeah, he's done as elite player, which is pathetic considering he's only 31 and in his 10th season. Kobe in his 10th season: 35+/5+/5/2/56% TS.
D-Whistle. What a scrub.
Dumass stan.
:roll:[/QUOTE]
Didn't Kobe average under 40% in a couple of Finals series? So mad that Wade might win more rings than Chuckbe. Mad that Kobe, even in his dreams, won't have a Finals performance like the one Wade had in '06. His THIRD year in the league.:roll:
Prime Shaq and Wade would've won 4, BTW. Wade wouldn't have choked like Kobe in the Finals.
Stay mad, fool. :roll:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=aj1987]What exactly did Kobe add to his achievements in the past two years? Shaq had three of the most dominant Finals performances of ALL TIME. I don't think I'm going to read a book, so that other people can tell me where to rank players. I saw Shaq and Kobe play and I pick Shaq over Kobe. It's not a slight at Kobe's career either. Kobe is a top 10 player (I have him at 9).
[/QUOTE]How about adding even more accolades to an already stacked resume? Two more 1st team selections, two more all star selections, breaking more records. And he just had one of his better regular seasons of his career, in his 17th season that is. These things matter you know, it all adds up.
Why am I not surprised you are so quick to dismiss Simmon's book. :rolleyes: Ignorance sure is bliss.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Any top 10 that has not got Kobe but does have Lebron is a fcking joke.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Lebron
11. Hakeem
12. Oscar
13. Moses
14. West
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=havoc33]How about adding even more accolades to an already stacked resume? Two more 1st team selections, two more all star selections, breaking more records. And he just had one of his better regular seasons of his career, in his 17th season that is. These things matter you know, it all adds up.
Why am I not surprised you are so quick to dismiss Simmon's book. :rolleyes: Ignorance sure is bliss.[/QUOTE]
If you believe that Kobe deserved all those All-NBA and All- Defensive First Teams, you're as delusional as Simmons. Who would you rather have right now, to start a franchise? 38/17/3/3 on 61%, 33/16/5/3 on 57%, 36/12/4/3 on 60%. Would've won 4 Rings and 4 FMVP's, if a certain someone didn't choke in '04. Also, lets not forget that Kobe is one of the worst Finals performer of all time (for a top 10 player).
As I said before, I don't need to read a damn book to figure out who's better. I watched both Kobe and Shaq play and ten times out of ten, I'd pick Shaq. If you need a book to figure out which player is better, :facepalm .
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=aj1987] So mad that Wade might win more rings than Chuckbe. Mad that Kobe, even in his dreams, won't have a Finals performance like the one Wade had in '06. His THIRD year in the league.:roll: [/QUOTE]
Wade won't get close to 5 rings and his career will never come close to Bryant's. Fact.
Kobe's 09 Finals are better than anything D-Whistle has ever done. Played a far, far, far better defense and wasn't gifted 16 FTA per game. Everybody knows the 06 Finals are a joke, you moron. Couldn't even touch the guy.
:oldlol:
Stay mad, retard.
[QUOTE]Prime Shaq and Wade would've won 4, BTW. Wade wouldn't have choked like Kobe in the Finals.[/QUOTE]
Prime Kobe and LeBron would win 10. Kobe wouldn't have had the worst post-season in history and literally made his team significantly worse every time he stepped on the court.
ORTG with Wade--104
ORTG without Wade--116
LMAO. Dude's a ****ing cancer. Offense is 10X better without his ass.
:roll:
[QUOTE]Stay mad, fool. :roll:[/QUOTE]
lol @ this moron. :lol
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=aj1987]If you believe that Kobe deserved all those All-NBA and All- Defensive First Teams, you're as delusional as Simmons. [/QUOTE]
27/6/6/2/57% TS isn't deserving of 1st-Team All-NBA? You really are a ****ing moron.
:roll: :oldlol: :oldlol:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Jacks3]Wade won't get close to 5 rings and his career will never come close to Bryant's. Fact.[/quote]
3 Rings down 2 more to go. Not even close to 5? LMAO! Also, I've never said that Wade is/will be a better player than Chuckbe. Your retarded ass can't seem to understand that.
[QUOTE=Jacks3]Kobe's 09 Finals are better than anything D-Whistle has ever done. Played a far, far, far better defense and wasn't gifted 16 FTA per game. Everybody knows the 06 Finals are a joke, you moron. Couldn't even touch the guy.[/quote]
This post right here tells me that you're a 12 year old. Do you remember the players who were guarding Kobe in that series? Even then, Kobe shot 43%.
Remember the '05 and '06 Pistons? The same team that [B]shut down[/B] Kobe. Wade ripped them a new one. How about them '10 Celtics? 33/6/7 on 56%. You're too young to remember those teams/games.
[QUOTE=Jacks3]Prime Kobe and LeBron would win 10. Kobe wouldn't have had the worst post-season in history and literally made his team significantly worse every time he stepped on the court. [/quote]
HAHAHA! Kobe shooting 40% and Lebron disappearing in the 4th. Yeah, they'd win 10 games a season for sure.
[QUOTE=Jacks3]LMAO. Dude's a ****ing cancer. Offense is 10X better without his ass.[/QUOTE]
Did Wade bang your mom or something?
Better without the guy who scored 20/4/4/2/1 on 48%? Yeah, I'm sure Lebron would've scored 50 points a game on 50% without Wade. You might not remember this as you're a stats [COLOR="Black"]s[/COLOR]lut, but Wade was the one who was actually a better defender in the Finals.
Kobe scored 22 points on 22 shots in the FINALS and cost Shaq his ring and 4th FMVP. You seem to forget that. The Heat never lost in the Finals because of Wade.:oldlol: Lets not even talk about the '08 Finals 25/5/5 on 40%? :roll:
[QUOTE=Jacks3]27/6/6/2/57% TS isn't deserving of 1st-Team All-NBA? You really are a ****ing moron.
[/QUOTE]
To go along with defense that would make Steve Nash look like a DPOY. Once again, your reading comprehension fails you. Did I mention 2013 anywhere in my post? Kobe is the most over rated defender of ALL TIME. Dude slacks off on the defensive end more than Wade.
I'm done with you. A person simply can't be this retarded. You must be a troll.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[B]Jordan
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Lebron
Oscar[/B]
This is the most unbiased, fair & realistic list you'll ever see.
Fair assessment of all-timer is necessary to get them into GOAT list.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=aj1987]3 Rings down 2 more to go. Not even close to 5? LMAO! [/QUOTE]
Um, yes? Are you retarded? He's not even close. Not to mention 4 of 5 rings for Kobe came as a top 3 player in the league. Wade won't be remotely close that level. :oldlol:
[QUOTE]Also, I've never said that Wade is/will be a better player than Chuckbe. [/QUOTE]
I'm glad you get it. Kobe>>>D-Whistle.
[QUOTE] Do you remember the players who were guarding Kobe in that series? Even then, Kobe shot 43%. [/QUOTE]
You're a moron.
Kobe in that series: 32.4/7.4/5.6/1.4/1.4/54% TS against the #1 defense in the league with the DPOY. A defense that was top 25 All-Time statistically.
The 06 Mavs, on the other hand, were the worst Finals defense in the last 30 years. A team that was DESTROYED by perimeter stars all season (Kobe scored 62 in three quarters against them and had another game of 43/6/5/).
Oh yeah, and Kobe wasn't gifted 16 FTA per game by the refs.
:roll:
Idiot.
[QUOTE]Remember the '05 and '06 Pistons? The same team that [B]shut down[/B] Kobe.[/QUOTE]
The 04 Pistons were the best defense in history. The 05 and 06 Pistons weren't even in the same universe. Get real, you moron.
Not to mention Wade playing with new hand-checking rules. Your ignorance is astounding.
[QUOTE] How about them '10 Celtics? 33/6/7 on 56%. You're too young to remember those teams/games.[/QUOTE]
Oh, you mean the Series where Wade's team lost in 5 to a team that was barely trying? The series where he averaged 5 turnovers a game and led his team offense to a miserable 96 ORTG? LMAO.
[QUOTE]HAHAHA! Kobe shooting 40% and Lebron disappearing in the 4th. Yeah, they'd win 10 games a season for sure.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE]
Better without the guy who scored 20/4/4/2/1 on 48%?[/QUOTE]
Look at the numbers, you idiot.
The Heat's offense during the Finals was far, far, far better with Wade on the bench. There were multiple articles written on this. He killed their spacing and shooting. Not to mention he was horribly inefficient (50.5% TS).
Did you forget Games 2 and Games 6? When the Heat mad MAJOR runs? Guess who was on the bench? That's right, D-Whistle. This was a recurring theme all post-season.
[QUOTE] Yeah, I'm sure Lebron would've scored 50 points a game on 50% without Wade.[/QUOTE]
No, but the Heat offense would have been 10X better.
Just like it actually was in reality.
[QUOTE]but Wade was the one who was actually a better defender in the Finals.[/QUOTE]
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[QUOTE]Kobe scored 22 points on 22 shots in the FINALS and cost Shaq his ring and 4th FMVP. You seem to forget that.[/QUOTE]
You seem the forget that they were playing the 04 Pistons, the greatest defense in history. You seem to be forgetting that they lost that series by a average margin of 15 points per game. You seem to forget to that the Lakers outside Kobe/Shaq shot [B]33%[/B] for the series.
Ignorant moron. :oldlol:
[QUOTE] Lets not even talk about the '08 Finals 25/5/5 on 40%? :roll: [/QUOTE]
26/5/5/3/51% TS against a top 3 defense in history and a team that won 66 games and had three Hall-of-Famers in their prime.
You think this is some bad series, but Wade putting up 20/5/5/51% TS in this years Finals and making his teams offense significantly worse every time he stepped on the court is something to be proud of? Letting freaking Danny Green put up 18 PPG/81% TS through the first 5 games? His team making major runs every time he sits?
:roll:
[QUOTE]I'm done with you. A person simply can't be this retarded. You must be a troll.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you're done because your arguments are pathetic.
Go sit down, kid.
****ing retard.
:oldlol:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Duncan
7. LeBron
8. Kobe
9. Wilt
10. Shaq
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Kobe is definitely not ahead of LeBron. Silly Kobe stans.:facepalm Bird and Hakeem have no business being ahead of LeBron either.
1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. LeBron
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic/Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Lebron (yes already ahead of Hakeem - all nba first team only 3 times in the 90's - and ready to surpass Duncan, Kobe and Shaq in the near future - And I don't even like him).
Just for fun:
11. Olajuwon
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Jerry West
14. Moses Malone
15. Dr. J
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Havlicek
18. Isaiah Thomas
19. Bob Pettit
20. Karl Malone.
Edit: Forgot Moses Malone.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. MJ
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Kobe
5. Lebron
6. Garnett
7. Wade
8. D. Nowitzki
9. Kidd
10. Chris Webber
I'm not listing people before my time obviously.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=aj1987]If you believe that Kobe deserved all those All-NBA and All- Defensive First Teams, you're as delusional as Simmons. Who would you rather have right now, to start a franchise? 38/17/3/3 on 61%, 33/16/5/3 on 57%, 36/12/4/3 on 60%. Would've won 4 Rings and 4 FMVP's, if a certain someone didn't choke in '04. Also, lets not forget that Kobe is one of the worst Finals performer of all time (for a top 10 player).
As I said before, I don't need to read a damn book to figure out who's better. I watched both Kobe and Shaq play and ten times out of ten, I'd pick Shaq. If you need a book to figure out which player is better, :facepalm .[/QUOTE]Now I'm not going to dispute you on Kobe's last few defensive team awards, as he didn't deserve them. But saying that Kobe didn't deserve all nba 1st team is just flat out stupid. It's obvious you have not been watching the NBA for long, otherwise you'd take this discussion a whole lot better. You can bring up efficiency numbers all you want, but at the end of the day that's all you've got. Kobe won more titles, more accolades and has had a longer and more storied career than Shaq overall. There is nothing you can say that can change that fact, I'm sorry. Kobe has 5 titles vs 4, 11x 1st team selection vs 8x, 2 olympic gold vs 1, 4x allstargame MVP vs 3 and so on and so on...
Shaq had one of the most dominant seasons ever in 2000, but fact remains that Kobe has played at a consistently high level for longer than Shaq ever did, and therefore he will ultimately also be ranked higher. Longevity matters, otherwise you'd see players like Bill Walton ranked far higher. In his first four years in his career, he achieved more than any other player in such a short span.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Oh this is easy.
1. Jordan
2. Jabbar
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. LeBron
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Shaq
6. Duncan
7. Kobe
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
Yes, Bird at 8. His long list of playoff failures and chokes far exceeds those of other Top 10 GOATS. It's just that back in the days, they were pretty much hidden by the media.
This is a Top 9 list because I know Wilt belongs in there but I haven't
got any friggin clue about him, except that he's OP in 2k.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Hakeem
5. Bird
6. Bill Russel
7. Wilt
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Shaq
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=havoc33] Kobe has 5 titles vs 4, 11x 1st team selection vs 8x, 2 olympic gold vs 1, [B]4x allstargame MVP [/B]vs 3 and so on and so on...
[/QUOTE]
Really? You think ASG matters? At all?
Shaq's titles > Kobe's titles to me.
There is a perception that Shaq didn't play long due to his lack of conditioning. But he had a lengthier career than most bigs. He carried his team to the NBA Finals in 94 (where he was schooled by Dream). He didn't drop below a PER of 26.4 until his last season with LAL in 2004 (11 seasons later). He became an elite 2nd option and won a title in 06 as a second option with Wade. And if you count 22.2/13.2 @56.2% from the field (rookie campaign) he went 14 stright seasons of outstanding production. If you excuse Kobe's first 3 seasons (his 3rd was still <20ppg) he is only 14 seasons in and Shaq's 14 years CRUSHES Kobe's. In fact, Kobe is still looking to catch him in WS and Shaq's career 26.4 PER DUSTS Kobe.
And that doesn't even speak to peak play. Kobe has played at a tremendous level for 14 years but his advanced stats have never impressed anyone. He has never been top 3 in PER for instance. Meanwhile, Shaq was #1 5 straight years. Shaq also had 7 seasons where his PLAYOFF PER was >27. Kobe has none.
I realize I am fighting an up hill battel but I don't see how Kobe could possibly be > Shaq.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
I don't do GOAT lists anymore, but it's interesting how everybody simultaneously decides to include the same players, over and over. Is there an ocean separating them from your next tier? Does everybody have identical criteria, and the exact same ten players happen to meet them (in generally the same, or at least similar order)? Not that I have a huge problem with it. It's just strange.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=CAstill]Jordan
Kobe
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Shaq
Duncan
Wilt
Russell
Lebron[/QUOTE]
Kobe #2? Russell #9? Really?
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Russell
4) Magic
5) Wilt
6) Bird
7) Kobe
8) Duncan
9) Shaquille
10) LeBron
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]Really? You think ASG matters? At all?
Shaq's titles > Kobe's titles to me.
There is a perception that Shaq didn't play long due to his lack of conditioning. But he had a lengthier career than most bigs. He carried his team to the NBA Finals in 94 (where he was schooled by Dream). He didn't drop below a PER of 26.4 until his last season with LAL in 2004 (11 seasons later). He became an elite 2nd option and won a title in 06 as a second option with Wade. And if you count 22.2/13.2 @56.2% from the field (rookie campaign) he went 14 stright seasons of outstanding production. If you excuse Kobe's first 3 seasons (his 3rd was still <20ppg) he is only 14 seasons in and Shaq's 14 years CRUSHES Kobe's. In fact, Kobe is still looking to catch him in WS and Shaq's career 26.4 PER DUSTS Kobe.
And that doesn't even speak to peak play. Kobe has played at a tremendous level for 14 years but his advanced stats have never impressed anyone. He has never been top 3 in PER for instance. Meanwhile, Shaq was #1 5 straight years. Shaq also had 7 seasons where his PLAYOFF PER was >27. Kobe has none.
I realize I am fighting an up hill battel but I don't see how Kobe could possibly be > Shaq.[/QUOTE]
lol at advanced stats.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Michael Jordan
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Larry Bird
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Magic Johnson
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwon or LeBron James
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[IMG]http://www.basisdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/TBOB-Poster.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=lakers_forever][IMG]http://www.basisdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/TBOB-Poster.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Wow, when I saw this poster, I immediately thought "wow, that order of the lineup [B]has [/B]to belong to some Laker-hater". Look where are drawn most of the Laker legends (and generally all-time greats): Magic, Kareem, Kobe and Baylor are to be found at the far right corner of the pic and also Wilt and Shaq at the lowest level, unlike Jordan and Russell, who are right in the middle.
And then I read the name: Bill Simmons. :lol
(In case you wonder, Jordan and Russell [B]are[/B] his top-2)
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. LeBron
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Some of these dudes ranking players they never seen play. :oldlol:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Psileas]Wow, when I saw this poster, I immediately thought "wow, that order of the lineup [B]has [/B]to belong to some Laker-hater". Look where are drawn most of the Laker legends (and generally all-time greats): Magic, Kareem, Kobe and Baylor are to be found at the far right corner of the pic and also Wilt and Shaq at the lowest level, unlike Jordan and Russell, who are right in the middle.
And then I read the name: Bill Simmons. :lol
(In case you wonder, Jordan and Russell [B]are[/B] his top-2)[/QUOTE]
Has anyone here read that book?
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Has anyone here read that book?[/QUOTE]
I own the book, which is sitting on my bookshelf right now.