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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Has anyone here read that book?[/QUOTE]
Yes, I have. A couple of times actually. The second time I didn't read it cover-to-cover, but went back and read the Pyramid section and a few other chapters. I've probably gone back and read his Pyramid Rankings and the best teams chapter 3 or 4 times total.
I don't necessarily agree with it all, and his Celtic bias (which leads to be a Laker hater) does get in the way at times a little bit, but I still feel like he did a great job with his research and stayed relatively objective (for the most part). I know some will disagree, though.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. LeBron
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Seriously? Not seeing one person list Dr. J in their top ten. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=havoc33]Now I'm not going to dispute you on Kobe's last few defensive team awards, as he didn't deserve them. But saying that Kobe didn't deserve all nba 1st team is just flat out stupid. It's obvious you have not been watching the NBA for long, otherwise you'd take this discussion a whole lot better. You can bring up efficiency numbers all you want, but at the end of the day that's all you've got. Kobe won more titles, more accolades and has had a longer and more storied career than Shaq overall. There is nothing you can say that can change that fact, I'm sorry. Kobe has 5 titles vs 4, 11x 1st team selection vs 8x, 2 olympic gold vs 1, 4x allstargame MVP vs 3 and so on and so on...
Shaq had one of the most dominant seasons ever in 2000, but fact remains that Kobe has played at a consistently high level for longer than Shaq ever did, and therefore he will ultimately also be ranked higher. Longevity matters, otherwise you'd see players like Bill Walton ranked far higher. In his first four years in his career, he achieved more than any other player in such a short span.[/QUOTE]
Finally, a person who actually talks Basketball. :cheers:
It's not just about efficiency. If we're just taking efficiency into account, Russell and Kobe would not even sniff the top 10. I'm talking about dominating the game and Shaq dominated like no other. Sure, Kobe have longevity over Shaq. Heck, he has it over Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc., but you're not going to rate Kobe over them, are you? As a matter of fact, Kobe's accolades, rings, etc., blow Birds' out of the water, yet, people still regard Bird to be a top 5 player and Kobe to be a top 7-9 player. It's not always about the stats. You can't judge just how good a player is by reading his wiki and going to Basketball Reference. Shaq had an impact on the game that can't be judged by stats.
If we go by stats, Shaq until 34 averaged 26/11.5/3 on 58% along with 2.5 blocks. It's not like Shaq had just one or two dominant seasons. Also, Shaq was MUCH MUCH more durable than Bill Walton. You seriously can't be comparing Bill Walton's health to Shaq's. It's not like Shaq played only 5-6 seasons.
GOAT lists are extremely subjective. I value dominating over 8-10 years more than playing 17 years and being dominant in 3 or 4 years. Some people value stats more than accolades, etc. As much as I like Kobe, I think he was really overrated this year. He was extremely passive on the defensive end. He also wasn't guarded well. It was as if teams were letting Kobe get his and were trying to shut down his teammates (I watched only ~20 Lakers games, so small sample to judge from).
BTW, I feel that Wade should've won the All-NBA First team in '06 and '11. Then again, it's just my opinion.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Did not include any '40s-'60s players in my list besides Bill Russell who I put on simply because of his reputation as Sports greatest winner. That is all. My list changes ALL THE TIME, and I'm sure some will take issue with it but....I give no f*cks.
Top 10 GOAT List
01. Michael Jordan
02. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
03. Bill Russell
04. Magic Johnson (interchangeable with Bird)
05. Larry Bird (interchangeable with Magic)
06. Kobe Bryant
07. Shaquille O'Neal
08. Tim Duncan
09. LeBron James
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Jordan
2. Kareem (very close to mj, if not ahead of him)
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. LeBron
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Kobe
12. Oscar Robertson
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=KyleKong]Seriously? Not seeing one person list Dr. J in their top ten. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
:applause:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=KyleKong]Seriously? Not seeing one person list Dr. J in their top ten. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
He's 13th in my list, but in this thread I listed 12 :lol
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Lebron
10. Kobe
Favorite 10:
1. Reggie Miller
2. Drazen Petrovic
3. Pete Maravic
4. Penny Hardaway
5. Larry Bird
6. Lebron James
7. Magic Johnson
8. Shawn Kemp
9. Ray Allen
10. Dennis Rodman
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=pauk]1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Lebron
10. Kobe[/QUOTE]
Solid list, but LeBron doesn't belong in the top 10 yet and Shaq is too low. Shaq won back-to-back-to-back Championships and FMVPS, but yet he's only a couple spots above LeBron?
I know you're biased, I am the same way with Kobe, but Shaq should be higher and LeBron should be off that list for now IMO
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
-The ultimate goal will always be to win a championship
-It's very difficult to evaluate individual player contribution in a team sport
-My criteria for evaluating players:
1) Titles as#1,MVP,FMVP
2) Advanced stats,H2H battles,supporting cast
3) Team/individual records
4) Titles as #2
[B]-Some examples of advanced stats[/B]
[QUOTE][B]Playoff Leaders for Win Shares[/B]
Jordan 39.76
Kareem 35.56
Duncan 33.08
Magic 32.63
Wilt 31.46
Shaq 31.08
LeBron 29.54
Kobe 28.26
Russell 27.76
West 26.75
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][B]Playoff Leaders for PER[/B]
Jordan 28.60
Mikan 28.51
LeBron 27.26
Shaq 26.13
Hakeem 25.69
Paul 25.48
Durant 24.98
Duncan 24.91
Dirk 24.68
Barkley 24.18[/QUOTE]
[B]Top 10 players of all-time[/B]
[QUOTE]1. Michael Jordan,Bill Russell
2. Wilt Chamberlain,Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson,Tim Duncan
4. Shaquille O'Neal,Larry Bird
5. LeBron James,Hakeem Olajuwon[/QUOTE]
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Lebron
Lebron can pass Kobe in next few years.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=7_cody]Solid list, but LeBron doesn't belong in the top 10 yet and Shaq is too low. Shaq won back-to-back-to-back Championships and FMVPS, but yet he's only a couple spots above LeBron?
I know you're biased, I am the same way with Kobe, but Shaq should be higher and LeBron should be off that list for now IMO[/QUOTE]
Shaq higher? That means Shaq is over Magic/Bird and perhaps Wilt/Russell/Kareem... MJ? Hm... do as you wish though....
As for Lebron.... look i do like Lebrons game and thats about it, i love basketball to much to disrespect it in honor of a single player though, i am not biased/immature THAT way.... i prefer logic and facts, thats my only bias, this is because facts are impossible to argue against and facts in this case show for example:
....................................Lebron..........Hakeem........Kobe....
MVP...................................4.................1...............1......
FMVP..................................2.................2...............2......
Championships as the man.......2.................2..............2......
1st All-NBA...........................7.................6..............11.....
1st All-Defensive....................5.................5..............9......
and so on...
.......sorry but anybody trying to keep Lebron out of top 10 at this moment is suffering from some specific agenda or delusion... its either Hakeem or Kobe replaced, your choice.... you cant keep a player of that magnitude out of top 10 forever....
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Scholar]Kareem- greatest of all-time big man. Can be interchangeable with MJ.
Jordan- greatest of all-time guard.
Wilt- revolutionized the game. So dominant, he caused change in basketball rules.
Russell- 11 rings in 13 tries. Enough said. Only reason to not rank him higher is because the others have better overall games. BR is probably the best shot blocker to run the game. A LeBron body who played in the NBA and US history's turning era.
Magic- 5 rings in 9 tries in 11 seasons. Greatest passer ever.
Kobe- 5 rings in 7 tries. [B]Greatest scorer of all-time.[/B]
Bird- possibly the most clutch player ever. I've seen enough of his games in playback to know he'd be a force to reckon with in any era.
Duncan- greatest PF ever. May not have eye popping, flashy games, but still a great winner. 4 rings in 5 tries.
Shaq- the most dominant player not named Wilt. He'd be ranked higher if he actually bothered to try more often in his career. He came into seasons out of shape, undedicated, and he became a journeyman towards the end, but he still is among the top 10. It wouldn't make me cringe to see him on some top 5 lists.
LeBron- overtook Hakeem. 2 rings in 4 tries, and 4 MVPs in 5 yrs. He'll be reaching the top 5 sooner than later.[/QUOTE]
Based on what?
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=AintNoSunshine]Hey fukkface where did he lead his team to while he was padding those averages? Tmac had basically the same numbers, too bad he didn't force his way to playing for the most successful franchise in nba and got 3 free championships.
I ain't even trying to convince fanboys like you anything, your man love for the dude blinds you.[/QUOTE]
U got owned and this is wat u come back wit?:lol
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
The thread title states:
"YOUR top 10 players of all-time"
Why are some posters arguing who should be in the top 10 of someone else's list? Make your own list and get on with it. No point asking why a certain player should be in and the other shouldn't, nor questioning the reasons of someone else's arbitrary list.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]The thread title states:
"YOUR top 10 players of all-time"
Why are some posters arguing who should be in the top 10 of someone else's list? Make your own list and get on with it. No point asking why a certain player should be in and the other shouldn't, nor questioning the reasons of someone else's arbitrary list.[/QUOTE]
whats ur top 10?
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]The thread title states:
"YOUR top 10 players of all-time"
Why are some posters arguing who should be in the top 10 of someone else's list? Make your own list and get on with it. No point asking why a certain player should be in and the other shouldn't, nor questioning the reasons of someone else's arbitrary list.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
No one's satisfied with making their own arbitrary list; everyone else's list has to be a reflection of theirs as well.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
My top 10 G.O.A.T list:
1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Wilt
4. Russels
5. Magic
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Lebron
10. Kobe
Hakeem is out at number 10.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]whats ur top 10?[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I don't actually have one of my own. I would have to actually think hard about and keep career separate from playing ability.
I would also to have to think about eras of competition, peer competition, skills, etc.... I can tell you this, I would value consistency the highest on my own list when in regards to players.
For the record, the read of others opinions here does have some good insight, despite the questioning by other posters.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
My top ten:
1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Wilt
6. Kareem
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Kobe
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=pauk]
Favorite 10:
1. Reggie Miller
2. Drazen Petrovic
3. Pete Maravic
4. Penny Hardaway
5. Larry Bird
6. Lebron James
7. Magic Johnson
8. Shawn Kemp
9. Ray Allen
10. Dennis Rodman[/QUOTE]
What a joke :roll:
You're not fooling anybody.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Heavincent]What a joke :roll:
You're not fooling anybody.[/QUOTE]
lmao he actually has 5 players ahead of lebron as his favorite. what a bunch of bull. :roll:
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
Scholar >
If we're going to say that Bill Russell has 11 rings in 13 tries, then the real numbers are 2 rings in 10 tries for LeBron, 5 rings in 13 tries for Magic, and 5 rings in 17 tries for Kobe.
I think Tim Duncan would disagree with the idea that he didn't "try" for a championship in 2004 and 2006...
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. LeBron
Shaq/Kobe/Duncan are are extremely close on my list though.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1-4 Russell, Magic, MJ, and Wilt, in any order.
5. KAJ
6-7 Shaq and Duncan tied
8-10 Kobe, Lebron, Bird in any order
11-12 Hakeem, Moses
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=fpliii]:applause:[/QUOTE]
He was 10th on my list before Lebron took his place this year. I know nothing but praise and dominance of his 75-76 season. More people need to appreciate what he did in the ABA, not just look at his NBA career.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]1-4 Russell, Magic, MJ, and Wilt, in any order.
5. KAJ
6-7 Shaq and Duncan tied
8-10 Kobe, Lebron, Bird in any order
11-12 Hakeem, Moses[/QUOTE]
C'mon, Hakeem and Moses over Doc. Doc won 3 title(2 in the ABA). Doesn't Doc's ABA years count anymore? Not fair, you can't just throw away those 5 years.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=Dr.J4ever]C'mon, Hakeem and Moses over Doc. Doc won 3 title(2 in the ABA). Doesn't Doc's ABA years count anymore? Not fair, you can't just throw away those 5 years.[/QUOTE]
You know what...I will agree with you.
How about this...
11-13 Hakeem, Moses, Dr J., ... in any order.
14-15 Oscar-West
After that you can throw a blanket over the next top-15 guys. Players like D-Rob, Dirk, Barkley, K. Malone, Hondo, Baylor, Barry, Pettit, Mikan, and other's.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]You know what...I will agree with you.
How about this...
11-13 Hakeem, Moses, Dr J., ... in any order.
14-15 Oscar-West
After that you can throw a blanket over the next top-15 guys. Players like D-Rob, Dirk, Barkley, K. Malone, Hondo, Baylor, Barry, Pettit, Mikan, and other's.[/QUOTE]
Better. Doc's legacy really has suffered a bit lately here on ISH.
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Re: YOUR top 10 players of all-time
1)Michael Jordan
2)Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3)Magic
4)Russel/Bird
5)Bird/Russel
6)Shaq
7)Chamberlain
8)Hakeem
9)Kobe
10)Lebron/Duncan