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-   -   "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299353)

Carbine 05-09-2013 11:55 PM

"and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Heard this a bunch last year during his historic run. Just to clear things up:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...more-wideouts/


Quote:

Rank Name Team 7 or Fewer in the Box 8 or More in the Box Stacked %
1 DeAngelo Williams CAR 36 12 25.00%
2 Stevan Ridley NE 85 28 24.78%
3 Arian Foster HST 149 42 21.99%
4 Vick Ballard IND 54 13 19.40%
5 Alex Green GB 27 6 18.18%
6 Frank Gore SF 65 14 17.72%
7 Donald Brown IND 22 4 15.38%
8 Alfred Morris WAS 193 34 14.98%
9 Steven Jackson SL 105 18 14.63%
10 Ray Rice BAL 125 21 14.38%
11 Rashad Jennings JAX 24 4 14.29%
12 Bryce Brown PHI 36 6 14.29%
13 Willis McGahee DEN 37 6 13.95%
14 Mikel Leshoure DET 75 11 12.79%
* LEAGUE AVG 4748 686 12.62%
15 Jonathan Dwyer PIT 42 6 12.50%
16 C.J. Spiller BUF 52 7 11.86%
17 Shonn Greene NYJ 98 13 11.71%
18 Chris D. Johnson TEN 151 19 11.18%
19 BenJarvus Green-Ellis CIN 112 14 11.11%
20 Trent Richardson CLE 120 15 11.11%
21 Michael Turner ATL 97 12 11.01%
22 LeSean McCoy PHI 57 7 10.94%
23 Bernard Pierce BAL 66 8 10.81%
24 LaRod Stephens-Howling ARZ 43 5 10.42%
25 Isaac Redman PIT 35 4 10.26%
26 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 116 13 10.08%
27 Marshawn Lynch SEA 125 14 10.07%
28 Doug Martin TB 148 16 9.76%
29 Fred Jackson BUF 30 3 9.09%
30 Bilal Powell NYJ 40 4 9.09%
31 Reggie Bush MIA 136 13 8.72%
32 Ryan Mathews SD 77 7 8.33%
33 Pierre Thomas NO 46 4 8.00%
34 Knowshon Moreno DEN 25 2 7.41%
35 Darren McFadden OAK 98 7 6.67%
36 Mark Ingram NO 84 6 6.67%
37 Jamaal Charles KC 175 12 6.42%
38 Ahmad Bradshaw NYG 90 6 6.25%
39 DeMarco Murray DAL 61 4 6.15%
40 Matt Forte CHI 141 9 6.00%
41 Felix Jones DAL 33 2 5.71%
42 Michael Bush CHI 52 2 3.70%

StateProperty 05-10-2013 12:51 AM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
DeMarco and Felix = ass

-p.tiddy- 05-10-2013 01:07 AM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
this is misleading as are a lot of PFF write ups...what they SHOULD have done is given us the stats that RBs faced in the box 2 or more wide WHEN THEY RAN THE BALL.

instead they gave us what the D showed on all plays, run or pass...meaning that RBs who DON'T play on 3rd down have a HUGE advantage...

I haven't really looked into it, but I am guessing that the majority of runners at the top of the list are not 3rd down backs while the runners at the bottom of the list (Demarco, AD, McFadden, etc) ARE every down down backs...

so every time it is 3rd and long and the offense goes 3 wide and is going to pass no matter what the D will obviously not load the box but if AD is in there they are pointing out

just show us what they faced when they ran the ball...that will give a much more clear picture

Carbine 05-10-2013 11:58 AM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
this is misleading as are a lot of PFF write ups...what they SHOULD have done is given us the stats that RBs faced in the box 2 or more wide WHEN THEY RAN THE BALL.

instead they gave us what the D showed on all plays, run or pass...meaning that RBs who DON'T play on 3rd down have a HUGE advantage...

I haven't really looked into it, but I am guessing that the majority of runners at the top of the list are not 3rd down backs while the runners at the bottom of the list (Demarco, AD, McFadden, etc) ARE every down down backs...

so every time it is 3rd and long and the offense goes 3 wide and is going to pass no matter what the D will obviously not load the box but if AD is in there they are pointing out

just show us what they faced when they ran the ball...that will give a much more clear picture


It quite clearly states the percentage given is for when they ran the ball, not for all plays run or pass.

Jailblazers7 05-10-2013 12:19 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
I'd be interested to see if there is a significant change before/after Percy's injury.

stallionaire 05-10-2013 12:24 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Why would you put 8 men in the box against Adrian regularly? That's how he breaks his huge runs. Hell, he does it anyway lol.

-p.tiddy- 05-10-2013 02:40 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbine
It quite clearly states the percentage given is for when they ran the ball, not for all plays run or pass.

Okay it does, however my point still stands in that RBs that play every down would face less than 1st and 2nd down backs naturally.

-p.tiddy- 05-10-2013 02:41 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stallionaire
Why would you put 8 men in the box against Adrian regularly? That's how he breaks his huge runs. Hell, he does it anyway lol.

That's exactly right...once he gets past that first contact he is gone, no safety back there now to stop him.

Carbine 05-10-2013 04:23 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Okay it does, however my point still stands in that RBs that play every down would face less than 1st and 2nd down backs naturally.


:wtf:

The top 4 has Ridley, Foster, Ballard....and top 10 has Gore, Morris, Steven Jackson, Ray Rice.

All of them play 1st, 2nd and 3rd downs, don't they?

-p.tiddy- 05-11-2013 02:17 AM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbine
:wtf:

The top 4 has Ridley, Foster, Ballard....and top 10 has Gore, Morris, Steven Jackson, Ray Rice.

All of them play 1st, 2nd and 3rd downs, don't they?

some of those I am not to sure of like SJax and Ballard, but I don't think most of those are in on 3rd down unless 3rd and short...Rice is a think

ALL of them play on 3rd down sometimes obviously, but I think the ones that can't catch well like Gore and Ridley are taken out the majority of the time...at least that is how it normally is, you want a guy that can catch out of the backfield (as well as block) in on 3rd down

Peterson was in on every play...Gerhart had 169 yards last year


Peterson might not have faced the most loaded boxes though on 2-3 wide, but he did probably face the most in total because the team went 1-wide a lot which naturally loads the box

Carbine 05-12-2013 11:40 AM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Can't you make the case a running back on 3rd down will face an 8 man box when the formation is two or more out wide more often than not when it's 3rd and 4 or shorter?

Not every 3rd down is 3rd and long.

-p.tiddy- 05-12-2013 04:13 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbine
Can't you make the case a running back on 3rd down will face an 8 man box when the formation is two or more out wide more often than not when it's 3rd and 4 or shorter?

Not every 3rd down is 3rd and long.

exactly, a 3rd and short would be the same situation or close to a 1st or 2nd down...


but do you agree that RBs that are taken out on 3rd and long have a huge advantage in this list?

let's say that Gore is removed on every 3rd and long...which would NEVER be a loaded box...and Peterson is in on every 3rd and long...clearly that would give Gore the edge in terms of who sees more 8 man boxes

Carbine 05-13-2013 07:17 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
exactly, a 3rd and short would be the same situation or close to a 1st or 2nd down...


but do you agree that RBs that are taken out on 3rd and long have a huge advantage in this list?

let's say that Gore is removed on every 3rd and long...which would NEVER be a loaded box...and Peterson is in on every 3rd and long...clearly that would give Gore the edge in terms of who sees more 8 man boxes


Not really in Petersons case, because it would mean that Peterson was given the ball on 3rd and long.....which rarely happened.

His splits confirm this.

He had 326 rushes on 1st and 2nd down.... and only 19 on 3rd down.....13 of which were when it was 3rd and 1 or 2. He also had 3 rush attempts on 4th down.

-p.tiddy- 05-13-2013 07:55 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
okay, well I still think AD faced a ton of loaded boxes for the simple fact that they went 1-wide so much...perhaps that is Ponder's fault, or perhaps not.



let me ask you this Carbine, do you think that there is no correlation between a team's passing game and running game? Are you trying to make the point that Ponder's play had no effect on Peterson?

Carbine 05-13-2013 08:13 PM

Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
okay, well I still think AD faced a ton of loaded boxes for the simple fact that they went 1-wide so much...perhaps that is Ponder's fault, or perhaps not.



let me ask you this Carbine, do you think that there is no correlation between a team's passing game and running game? Are you trying to make the point that Ponder's play had no effect on Peterson?


He did face a lot of 8 man boxes, but it was dictated by the offensive formations they used, nothing more or less. It's natural to play 8 in the box when their is only one wideout on the field.

Your second question is something I've already addressed. Peterson had probably his worst year production wise with Brett Favre are a bunch of weapons around him....but has his best year by far with Ponder and specifically took off when Harvin went down.

Ridley is 2nd on the list for facing 8 man boxes with two or more wideouts on the field - his quarterback is Tom Brady.

Arian Foster is also up there, and he has a good quarterback.

Vick Ballard as well, with Andrew Luck.

Alex Green 5th on the list, Aaron Rodgers is his quarterback.

Gore 6th, Kap and Smith his quarterbacks.

It doesn't correlate. On the bottom of the list is Charles at 6.5 percent facing an 8 man box with two or more wiseouts....with some of the worst quarterbacking we've seen in awhile.


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