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Pointguard 02-14-2013 01:42 PM

Lebron in the 1990's
 
What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.

Duncan21formvp 02-14-2013 01:44 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Less rebounds for him for sure and worse FG% with the amount of defensive guys in the league that protected the paint.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy 02-14-2013 01:47 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGRzk_duhj4

Remember when Lebron went crying to the media when the Wizards played him physical? 'Nuff said! :oldlol:

KyrieTheFuture 02-14-2013 01:48 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
People focus on offense but imagine a league where he's allowed to play defense more physically. What would you do against him?

Dave3 02-14-2013 01:57 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGRzk_duhj4

Remember when Lebron went crying to the media when the Wizards played him physical? 'Nuff said! :oldlol:

And still averaged 30 ppg for the series? They tried to go 90's Pistons on him instead of playing straight up defense and it didn't work. Don't mix up complaining with lack of effectiveness.

Legends66NBA7 02-14-2013 02:00 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
And still averaged 30 ppg for the series? They tried to go 90's Pistons on him instead of playing straight up defense and it didn't work. Don't mix up complaining with lack of effectiveness.


That Wizards team's physical defense was nothing compared to the Bad Boy Pistons.

Dave3 02-14-2013 02:01 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
That Wizards team's physical defense was nothing compared to the Bad Boy Pistons.

Yeah which is why I said "tried" - they attempted to hack/hit to emulate the Pistons defense, they just lacked the actual defensive ability of the Pistons teams. My point was though that physicality has never been something to deter LeBron's offensive game. He thrives in that type of situation.

Legends66NBA7 02-14-2013 02:03 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
Yeah which is why I said "tried" - they attempted to hack/hit to emulate the Pistons defense, they just lacked the actual defensive ability of the Pistons teams. My point was though that physicality has never been something to deter LeBron's offensive game. He thrives in that type of situation.


I know. Just looking at where both teams ranked in their defensive years and the defensive players on each respective team, it should be pretty obvious.

James would be a different player in the 90's, IMO. Kinda of a hybrid of Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, which would still be pretty potent.

Dave3 02-14-2013 02:06 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
I know. Just looking at where both teams ranked in their defensive years and the defensive players on each respective team, it should be pretty obvious.

James would be a different player in the 90's, IMO. Kinda of a hybrid of Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, which would still be pretty potent.

Yeah, people always tend to confuse hard fouls in the 90's with better defense. They weren't allowed to just shove guys without foul calls or anything. Fouls back then were called just like they are now. Maybe a flagrant today would've been just a hard foul then, but a foul today would still have been a foul then. I don't think LeBron would have been any worse at all back then. If anything he would have had a slightly more athletic advantage in his younger years.

OldSchoolBBall 02-14-2013 02:08 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pointguard
What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.


I want to get one thing out of the way: hand checking works on everyone. It's called physics.

Anyway, Lebron would still be dominant, but he wouldn't be putting up the numbers he is today, especially efficiency-wise (he could certainly average 27/8/6 or whatever on a good team).

imnew09 02-14-2013 02:09 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Scottie will own him.

andgar923 02-14-2013 02:10 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pointguard
What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.


Less rebounds, less assists, less points, lower efficiency.

No hand checking wouldn't work to his advantage. It may have worked on Chuck, but Chuck was a post player that also used his weight and lower base as an advantage. Chuck was also ferocious and much tougher. Lebron just now is starting to scratch the surface on how to play the post. One huge disadvantage he'd have is the paint being far more congested and players much tougher with rules that favored the defense when compared to today's game. He won't be able to just run through the middle like he does today, if he did it would be contested and met with a hard foul.

Coaches wouldn't allow him to dominate the ball as much, and his off the ball game is mediocre.

Not to say he wouldn't get his from time to time, but his opportunities and his efficiency would take a noticeable dip. Still an all star, but I don't think he'd be the player we know him as today.

Bird had a great shot which allowed him to play at a very elite level, along with that was his legendary toughness. Bron doesn't have a great shot, he isn't known to be legendary in the tough department either. Magic a point forward, made quick passes and more importantly dribbled with his back turned which made it harder on the defense. Bron would be awesome on the open court no question about that. I guess it'll depend on the team he plays with. Put him on the Warriors a fast break team and he excels. But put him on a more post oriented team, and he won't be the same Bron we know of today.

pauk 02-14-2013 02:13 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Come on now.... he would be just fine in the 90s, guaranteed not worse than today...

Legends66NBA7 02-14-2013 02:14 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
Yeah, people always tend to confuse hard fouls in the 90's with better defense. They weren't allowed to just shove guys without foul calls or anything. Fouls back then were called just like they are now. Maybe a flagrant today would've been just a hard foul then, but a foul today would still have been a foul then. I don't think LeBron would have been any worse at all back then. If anything he would have had a slightly more athletic advantage in his younger years.


The 90's had better interior defense, clearly. You could camp in the paint because the rules allowed, plus they had better defensive centers too. You can say perimeter defense works better too, because it wears down the smaller opponents.

I'm not so sure about a foul today would be a foul back then, with reference of the touch fouls like Durant, Wade, etc.. get with their acting, rip through moves, and all. I don't think it would be called as much back then, it would have to be a harder foul.

James would be a back to the basket player and playing with big men. More or less, he'd still be an all-time great.

Dragonyeuw 02-14-2013 02:16 PM

Re: Lebron in the 1990's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pointguard
What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.


Hand checking in the post and hand checking out on the perimeter are two very different things. Malone and Barkley were both *much* better post players, Malone was more of a mid-range fade-away kind of post player( especially as he aged) while Barkley was more explosive around the basket with an assortment of moves under the rim. Hand checking on the perimeter meant the defender is able to pretty much lay his hand on your hip and *guide* you to where he wanted you to go, so it took someone with exceptional driving ability to free themselves from being consistently hand-checked over the course of a game.


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