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-   -   Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261967)

franchize 05-02-2012 05:48 PM

Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Hopefully this can stick. Let's play GM (as we all like to do from time to time) and discuss free agency in one thread.

Let me start things off:
My dad and I were discussing the Knicks and Nets going forward. He made an interesting proposal. "Would you do an Amare/Shumpert for Deron Williams deal and put yourself in both teams shoes" he asked, almost jumping out his seat for my response. I couldtell he was expecting me to make a hasty decision so I decided to mull it over quickly. MOST people would say "Hell no I wouldn't do that if I were the Nets." Then I used my thinking cap and really dug deep into the situation. Dwight Howard royally screwed the Nets by signing a one year deal. Not only does he piss on the one thing they've been trying to accomplish all year (getting him in a trade) but they're also in limbo because it's a one year deal. Where do we fit in all of this? Well, Deron Williams would have to be the most compassionate, optimistic guy in the world or just really not care about winning if he resigns with the Nets without them having a big time plan B.

Here's where we come in, dangling Amare Stoudemire in their face. I know, hes been injured. But so has Deron. Furthermore, it's not like they have much of a choice. Chris Paul isn't off the table. Dwight is temporarily off the table. They need someone to fill that hole for all of the reasons Rameek said we can't afford to lose Lin. In fact, theyre in even more of a dire need. We were the most valuable franchise in the league last year WITHOUT Lin (we began the season 2nd but we might be back with Lin's emergence). You think Jay z wants to open that arena, in NYC, without a marquee player? I think not.

Here's my proposal:
Sign and trade of Lin,Amare,Douglas and Fields to Brooklyn for Deron Williams and Marshon Brooks. If they say no to Marshon, tell them we'll take Morrow instead.

Your thoughts...

knickscity 05-02-2012 06:15 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
I know this is hypothetical of course mainly because Lin is not getting traded.

His value to the club financially is huge.

But if at end of a deal we end up with Deron, MarShon, Melo, MLE PF, Tyson.....

Sign me the fuck up!!!

Scoooter 05-02-2012 06:23 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
I don't see Deron and Melo's game complimenting one another as well as Deron and Amar'e's would. And I'm sure the Nets would prefer Melo anyway.

It's not a bad trade though, Marshon Brooks looks really talented and we could bring Shumpert off the bench where he's best. Although he's another isolation scorer who would need touches that Melo doesn't want to give up. Morrow might be better in that sense, although his game hasn't seemed particularly impressive lately. Pick and roll with Chandler, spots ups for Morrow, isos for Melo. Not much rebounding though, and I don't think Melo or Jeffries starting at the four is a viable championship solution. Just as a first move though, it seems pretty good.

I would try Lin, Melo and whatever for Deron and Brooks/Morrow. And then Gerald Wallace will be a free agent. Nets get long term talent and the opportunity to milk that Brooklyn connection.

Deron
Brooks
SF
Melo
Chandler

Deron
Brooks/Morrow
SF (G. Wallace?)
Amar'e
Chandler

They both look pretty good.

I've said this before, but we should also look at the Rockets if we're interested in a PG (although I do like Lin). I doubt both Dragic and Lowry are going to be there next year and while I would prefer Dragic, Lowry wouldn't be so bad.

A longshot might also be something with the Celtics. I would consider Melo for Rondo and Pierce, assuming they would.

Lastly, and I'm reluctant to mention it, but we should think about dealing Shumpert sooner than later. I'd like to keep him and his defense, but there's a chance his injury is a career changer. Might want to get some value out him now from some team that thinks he'll be a-okay, just on the chance that he isn't.

franchize 05-02-2012 06:55 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
I wouldnt trade Melo for Deron. I think it's parallel move. It's hard having your best player be your pg and I think we'd be screwed way worse if Amare got hurt again. If Stoudemire get's hurt,tthen we're right back to where we were when Melo was point-forward. Our best scorer would also be responsible for bringing up the ball. No thanks!

Quote:

I know this is hypothetical of course mainly because Lin is not getting traded.

His value to the club financially is huge.

But if at end of a deal we end up with Deron, MarShon, Melo, MLE PF, Tyson.....

Sign me the **** up!!!

You don't think we'd make up some of the marketing if we start winning with a superstar pg?

But your hypothetical starting 5 is exactly what I had in mind. I'd be hyped and I'd by League Pass immediately.

Scoooter 05-02-2012 07:01 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
How is it a parallel move? Deron is a great playmaker who can make his team mates better. Melo is the exact opposite.

Plus, I think Brooks can do some ball handling duty. But Deron's supposed to bring the ball up, he's a PG.

franchize 05-02-2012 11:41 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoooter
How is it a parallel move? Deron is a great playmaker who can make his team mates better. Melo is the exact opposite.

Plus, I think Brooks can do some ball handling duty. But Deron's supposed to bring the ball up, he's a PG.

Well obviously I dont feel the same way you do about Melo. I think thats been established months ago. O yea n who exactly did Deron make better?

Rameek 05-03-2012 12:14 AM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Sorry but no one is taking Stat in a trade. I cant see any circumstance where a GM/President would take that uninsured contract with a guy that has a bad eye, knee, back. Do not get it twisted but I would trade this dude for rocks.

Deron is not a money maker. Lin is a CASH COW! I dont see Lin ever getting traded until he stops making Dolan money.

Scoooter 05-03-2012 04:05 AM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by franchize
Well obviously I dont feel the same way you do about Melo. I think thats been established months ago. O yea n who exactly did Deron make better?

I think your homerism (not that homerism is necessarily a bad thing) is clouding your ability to judge basketball players objectively.

Deron > Melo.

I say let the Nets build around a 6'7" Allen Iverson with less heart. I see first round exits in their future. :confusedshrug:

Clutch 05-03-2012 04:18 AM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoooter
I think your homerism (not that homerism is necessarily a bad thing) is clouding your ability to judge basketball players objectively.

Deron > Melo.

I say let the Nets build around a 6'7" Allen Iverson with less heart. I see first round exits in their future. :confusedshrug:

Melo at least makes playoffs every season. Deron missed the playoffs half of the times.

Scoooter 05-03-2012 04:28 AM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch
Melo at least makes playoffs every season. Deron missed the playoffs half of the times.

Deron's better than Melo once he get's into the playoffs. Only lost in the first round once, to the Lakers. Led the Utah Jazz to the 2007 WCF in his second year, and beat Melo's Nuggets in 2010. Lost to the Lakers in '08 and '09. Then he got traded to the Nets, who are awful - although looking up recently.

Don't understand why they traded away that pick though, especially in this draft. In this league, you're either contending, or building to contend. Consistent mediocrity is hell.

franchize 05-03-2012 09:58 AM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoooter
I think your homerism (not that homerism is necessarily a bad thing) is clouding your ability to judge basketball players objectively.

Deron > Melo.

I say let the Nets build around a 6'7" Allen Iverson with less heart. I see first round exits in their future. :confusedshrug:


Does that 6'7" Iverson also rebound? Yea I think he does.

BTW, Iverson went to the Finals with Matt Geiger and Eric Snow. I'm not going to diss Deron Williams because I've gone on record as saying he was the best pg in the game. I just don't think he's significantly better than Melo. Slightly maybe considering the magnitude of his position but not dramatically. I do however think he is significantly better than Amare. Furthermore, if you asked me if I'd rather trade Melo or Amare, there's no question I'm trade Stat.

el gringos 05-03-2012 01:46 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
With Lin the over estimating of how much "money he makes the team" is out of control- for one, why would making money be more important than winning to a fan- and two, I'm sure a winning team makes more money than a single player that bandwagon fans latched on to. The linsanity boom already hit its peak intrest wise and now you as a fan believe that's more important to the teams future than just basketball talent desicions? Lin will play for multiple teams throughout his career- don't act like he's not available if he is the kicker to make a big trade happen




The idea of wanting Carmelo to play fulltime pf is retarded- if you think he should you need to understand that positions are defensive and you shouldn't think about competing in the reg season or against bad teams you should think about playoff basketball and ends of games- you do not want Carmelo covering bigtime 4's, he's outmatched and at too big of a disadvantage. If you think you want Carmelo at the 4 because of his offensive success while there this season than you don't get it but what you really want is to get a pf or C that can trade offensive roles and play the typical role you think a sf should play- Carmelo is unique for his position, if you want the normal sf than you are wasting time- he's just an allstar. If you want him at his best playing a "power 3 role" then build around him because you have a superstar

el gringos 05-03-2012 01:58 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Jared Cunningham 6-4 pg from oregon st would be the perfect player to try to buy into the late 1st round for- do yourself a favor and look for some footage and then you'll wonder- "why the hell isn't he a consensous lottery pick" and " man I hope the knicks can get this guy"


The draft sites claim he couldn't play point- that's wrong, once osu finally traded their 2 gaurds roles the team took off- we are talking about a guy who is as close as you are going to find to the elite (westbrook/rose) level nba pg in terms of athletisism/size

Clutch 05-03-2012 02:29 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by el gringos
With Lin the over estimating of how much "money he makes the team" is out of control- for one, why would making money be more important than winning to a fan- and two, I'm sure a winning team makes more money than a single player that bandwagon fans latched on to. The linsanity boom already hit its peak intrest wise and now you as a fan believe that's more important to the teams future than just basketball talent desicions? Lin will play for multiple teams throughout his career- don't act like he's not available if he is the kicker to make a big trade happen




The idea of wanting Carmelo to play fulltime pf is retarded- if you think he should you need to understand that positions are defensive and you shouldn't think about competing in the reg season or against bad teams you should think about playoff basketball and ends of games- you do not want Carmelo covering bigtime 4's, he's outmatched and at too big of a disadvantage. If you think you want Carmelo at the 4 because of his offensive success while there this season than you don't get it but what you really want is to get a pf or C that can trade offensive roles and play the typical role you think a sf should play- Carmelo is unique for his position, if you want the normal sf than you are wasting time- he's just an allstar. If you want him at his best playing a "power 3 role" then build around him because you have a superstar

It isn't. But fans aren't those who decide who will the Knicks sign.
Dolan is.

And for Dolan money is at the first place.

franchize 05-03-2012 02:51 PM

Re: Trades,Free Agency, Draft Thread
 
Do we have a 2nd round pick this year? Anybody know? Thanks in advance


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