ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #12 - Steve Nash vs. Clyde Drexler

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][CENTER][SIZE="3"]Make your arguments here for the next 48 hours on rather Steve Nash or Clyde Drexler should advance and continue to move higher on the list. Put the players name you are voting for in [B]BOLD[/B] so I don't miss it when I tally. The loser of this poll will be ranked #13 in our project. [/SIZE][/CENTER][/FONT]

[CENTER][IMG]http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/nashnose(2).jpg[/IMG]

15 seasons
7x all-NBA
7x all-star
[B]2005 & 2006 MVP[/B]
5x Assists Leader
2x FT% Leader
1st All-time in FT%
8th All-time in 3pt fg%
10th All-time in 3-pointers made


[B][U]Votes (10)[/U][/B]
magnax1
ThaSwagg3r
RobertdeMeijer
NyCelt84
SteveNashMVPcro
Shaqattack3234
Big 164
Rose
1987 Lakers
NugzHeat3

[IMG]http://www.intentionalfoul.com/images/clydedrexlerstache.jpg[/IMG]


15 seasons
5x all-NBA
10x all-star
One of five players to average at least 20-6-6 for their career (Magic, Oscar, Bird, West)
Averaged at least 16 points 5 rebounds and 4 assists 13 of 14 years of his career
9th all-time in steals
25th all-time in scoring
1995 NBA Champion

[B][U]Votes (9)[/U][/B]
SuperPippen
WillC
neyca
bizil
iamgine
Gotterdammerung
Toizumi
L. Kizzle
G.O.A.T

[/CENTER]

As in the last matchup, Drexler is the better defender (though obviously it's not the same gap) and Nash is the better offensive player (also, not the same gap) However, I do think Nash made more of an impact. Drexler never seemed to be the scorer his #s would suggest, and more of an impact by the fact that he did a bit of everything. I think Nash's ability to turn any team into a top 10 offense ends up being more valuable. I always feel that if Nash ever had the defenses around him these other players did, he would've at minimum made quite a few finals, and in all likelyhood won a couple. The only year I would've really said he had a chance to win (07) he had terrible luck.
Anyway, all in all I'd say Nash made more of an impact on his teams
[B]Nash[/B]

[B]Nash[/B]

I'm too lazy to really explain why. I'll just echo what magnax said. Especially with the impact factor.

[B]Steve Nash[/B] averaged 16 PPG and 10 APG on 40 50 90 for a decade 2000 to present day. Boy can he run an offense and shoot lights out. :cheers:

Id say that Steve Nash was also a better performer in the playoffs.

^you don't have a vote unless you ask to and no one objects and you show a commitment to the project not just your favorite player.

Check the main thread and request to vote if you are interested.

Oh ok.

I'm not interested, I just saw Nash's name and wanted to post.

[QUOTE=Maniak]Oh ok.

I'm not interested, I just saw Nash's name and wanted to post.[/QUOTE]

Then by all means share your opinion on this matter but don't do the bolded vote. it make its confusing when I do the tallies.

My vote goes to [B]Steve Nash[/B]. This is a tougher comparison since they play completely different role and it's funny because they would probably be great compliments to each other.

Nash was better offensively in my mind, he did not score better than Drexler did but that was because that was not his role. Nash proved that he had great scoring ability in the 2005 playoffs when the Mavericks dared him to be a scorer rather than a playmaker/passer and here was his statline....

Game 1: May 9, 2005- 11 points 13 assists
Game 3: May 13, 2005- 27 points 17 assists
Game 4: May 15, 2005- 48 points 5 assists
Game 5: May 18, 2005- 34 points 12 assists 13 rebounds
Game 6: May 20, 2005- 39 points 12 assists 9 rebounds

Drexler may have scored better in volume and was the better scorer in general but Nash was more efficient. Nash took smart and efficient shots, he did not waste possessions. Nash has had numerous of 90/50/40 seasons while Drexler never had any but that was because he wasn't as good of a shooter as Nash was.

Nash has the absolute clear edge in playmaking and passing, clear edge. Drexler was no slouch in the passing/playmaking area (had many 5-6+ apg seasons) and it is not like he was some pure scorer like Dominique Wilkins who lacked those traits but he wasn't as good as Nash was, not even close. The gap between their scoring is a hell lot closer than their gap in passing/playmaking.

Here is the last offensive thing I want to say Nash had the absolute edge in.....closing ability. Nash was the closer on those Suns teams while Drexler wasn't....Terry Porter was the closer on those Blazers team. Terry Porter was underrated as hell and he was the real closer for those Blazers team not Drexler. Nash was not LeBron when it came down to closing either, Nash was very clutch and would hit big time shots.

Drexler has the clear advantage in rebounding (Drexler was one of the greatest rebounders in his position) and defense. Drexler's defense was nothing special but it was better than Nash. I don't think Clyde's advantage in rebounding and defense is significant to overcome Nash's great offensive advantages over Clyde. That is why my vote goes to Steve Nash....hard comparison at the end because they are so different and would have been great compliments to one another.

Nash is going to win this. And win it by such a margin that listing reasons Drexler might deserve more consideration than hes getting would just be a waste of time.

If Payton didnt win by being 40 times the defender nash is then Drexler isnt winning for being 20 times the defender plus a little less modern and respected by current fans.

This is so clearly going to Nash id suggest skipping the voting but im sure we wont. So ill just leave it alone until someone says something I cant ignore like "Drexler cant even dribble without looking at the ball...how is this a debate?"".

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Nash is going to win this. And win it by such a margin that listing reasons Drexler might deserve more consideration than hes getting would just be a waste of time.[/QUOTE]

Considering they finished in a dead tie based on the polling before these threads, I can't see it being a landslide. A lot of people would have to have changed their minds for that to happen.

[B]Clyde Drexler[/B]. Better all-around player and got to the Finals multiple times as the go to guy. He would have a ring most likely if it weren't for Jordan. And 20-6-6 for his career. Only 4 others have done it.

Nash is better but something for Clyde because he'll get overlooked...

Offensively he helped his teams in every way imaginable. Very good scorer, top 5 passer ever from the SG positions and by the numbers THE best offensive rebounding guard ever (most people don't realize this). No other guard has gotten over 3.5/game and he is the only one to average more than 3/game multiple times (he was good for putbacks couple of times a game). So dude scored 20-25 a game efficiently and in a way that fit well with the team (never pounded the ball, made his moves quickly), got putbacks and offensive rebounds for you at the rate of a center and passed/made plays at an elite level. On top of that he was a very active defender who was great at converting his defense ( or missed shots) into an easy fast break opportunity for his team. The only thing he lacked was handles that didn't really allow him to break down the defense like an MJ, Kobe or Wade, so if his jumper was off, you weren't gonna get great one on one scoring from him.

His teams were really talented, but imo his impact gets underrated because of that, especially offensively. Overall in his prime (

Clyde did more stuff well than Nash, but the things Nash did and does well, he's one of the best of all time at them.

Nash's impact goes miles beyond his numbers.

[SIZE="4"][B]
Steve Nash.[/B][/SIZE]

Not ready to reveal my vote yet. This one is very, very close and they are very similar. With that in mind, I'm just going to share my notes on each player with you. I'll add to it you have a guy in Nash I believe is the 10th best offensive player of all-time and a guy in Drexler I ran as the 10th best all-around player of all-time. Hope this helps, looking for a persuasive argument here.



Stephen John Nash
15 seasons
11 quality seasons
10 prime level seasons

7x all-NBA (3-2-2)
7x all-star
2005, 2006 MVP
2nd

Nash is probably gonna win this one, seeing as how everyone loves to crap on Drexler and Nash is one of the most beloved players in the NBA, but I'm actually gonna take [B]Clyde Drexler[/B] on this one.

Many people tend to disrespect Drexler, especially when in comparison to a guy like Jordan, who consistently outplayed him throughout his career, but Glide was a fantastic all-around player in his own right. His game had few notable holes; he could score, pass, rebound, get steals etc. His only real faults were his inconsistent jumpshot and his subpar handles (people love bringing up the whole "looks at the ball during fastbreaks" thing, but whatever, he was still fantastic in transition, so f*ck it).

Clyde was probably the least impressive scorer among the the SG's that are commonly considered among the greatest of all time, and could never really dominate a game solely by scoring like the Jordans, Kobes, Gervins, and Iversons of the world, but he had a well-rounded game that more made up for it.

- Drexler was terrific in transition and a spectacular dunker. He was a fantastic athlete, was slightly bigger than the average SG, and dunked with power, grace, and style. His name rarely comes up in the discussion of best dunkers of all time, but IMO, Clyde is up there. In his prime, he was as exciting of a player as there was, and on the fast break, he was nearly unstoppable.

- Clyde's skill as a passer is often overlooked, but was a GREAT passer with great court awareness. He could thread passes between opposing players with an impressive amount of skill, and was particularly adept at penetrating the hole and then dropping off a pass to a teammate for an easy basket. He was a constant triple-double threat. He reminds me a lot of Larry Bird in this regard. If Drexler had had better handles, he would've made a fine point-forward, IMO.

- Very few guards in the NBA ever rebounded the ball as well as Clyde. Most notably, Clyde excelled at taking down offensive rebounds like no guard in NBA HISTORY ever has. During those years when the Blazers were consistently contenders for the title, Drexler's offensive rebounding numbers often matched or exceeded those of the team's frontcourt players, including those of Buck Williams.

- Although Drexler's defense wasn't particularly strong, he was shrewd and athletic enough as a defender to rack up an impressive amount of steals. It wasn't uncommon to see him with a game of around 4 or 5, and sometimes even more, and these inevitably led to easy fastbreak points. He was a capable shotblocker, as well.

- Clyde was able to reinvent himself and serve as a very valuable sidekick to Hakeem during the '95 season. He played an important role and won a championship on an otherwise unimpressive team. If he had landed in the role of a complimentary player in the vein of someone like Scottie Pippen, I really think we'd be arguing about Drexler being the greatest sidekick ever.

Maybe this might all just be personal bias speaking for me, as Clyde the Glide was always one of my favorite players to watch, but depending on what kind of player I needed for a team, I think I'd take Drexler over Nash more times than I'd take Nash over Drexler. I just think Drexler could give me slightly more than Nash could, in a wider variety of roles, whether I needed a star scorer to carry a team or a fantastic 2nd banana to compliment another fantastic player.

In short, give me [B]Clyde the Glide[/B].