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True story.
That's a bold statement, given their history.
Who rounds out your top 5, and who misses the cut?
[QUOTE=mlh1981]That's a bold statement, given their history.
Who rounds out your top 5, and who misses the cut?[/QUOTE]
I've seen this topic discussed on different boards multiple times... The consensus top 6 is(in no order), Bird, Russel, Hondo, Cousey, Pierce and McHale. I'd put Pierce over McHale and Cousey based on longevity and career statistics.
Pierce ranks anywhere from 5-8. What bodes well for him is that he is in the top 5 in many of the statistical categories but obviously in Boston players are rated via Championships. So another ring could really help ensure his legacy currently I think I would have him in the all time Celtics starting line up though that doesn't necessarily make you a top 5 Celtic.
Russell
McHale
Bird
Pierce
Cousy
Bench
Cowens
Heinsohn
Hondo
Jones
DJ
Garnett
Jo Jo White
probably number 5 maybe four if you want to drop mchale to 5
[QUOTE=MMM]Pierce ranks anywhere from 5-8. What bodes well for him is that he is in the top 5 in many of the statistical categories but obviously in Boston players are rated via Championships. So another ring could really help ensure his legacy currently I think I would have him in the all time Celtics starting line up though that doesn't necessarily make you a top 5 Celtic.
Russell
McHale
Bird
Pierce
Cousy
Bench
Cowens
Heinsohn
Hondo
Jones
DJ
Garnett
Jo Jo White[/QUOTE]no havlicek
Hmmm
1. Bird
2. Russell
3. Hondo
4. Pierce
5. Cousy
Right now, borderline top 5 I would say. I see him in group of McHale, Parish, Cowens and Cousy fighting for 4th and 5th spot. Russell, Bird and Hondo are locks for me.
IMO opinion, after retirement he will be 4th best Celtic.
[QUOTE=gts]no havlicek[/QUOTE]
He's Hondo.
[QUOTE=gts]no havlicek[/QUOTE]
Hondo=havlikek
I don't know why his nickname is Hondo, but I know I use it because it's easier to spell than "Havlikek".
[QUOTE=steve]He's Hondo.[/QUOTE]yeah i saw that.. i was talking top 5
edit: to me he's a top 5 celtic all time
[QUOTE=gts]yeah i saw that.. i was talking top 5
edit: to me he's a top 5 celtic all time[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, definitely. I'd easily put Cousy, Russell, Havlicek, and Bird ahead of Pierce. I guess there could be a debate once you get past those four, but not with those four.
[QUOTE=mlh1981]That's a bold statement, given their history.
Who rounds out your top 5, and who misses the cut?[/QUOTE]
I don't think it is. Or at least it won't be by the time he retires as long as he stays a Celtic until he retires. He's giong to be #2 guaranteed in Celtic scoring all-time. Possibly #1 if he plays another 5-ish years.
[QUOTE=Meticode]I don't think it is. Or at least it won't be by the time he retires as long as he stays a Celtic until he retires. He's giong to be #2 guaranteed in Celtic scoring all-time. Possibly #1 if he plays another 5-ish years.[/QUOTE]
If Paul Pierce becomes the Celtics # 1 scorer, I'm going to cry for 100 nights.
[QUOTE=gts]yeah i saw that.. i was talking top 5
edit: to me he's a top 5 celtic all time[/QUOTE]
Hondo is in my top 5 but my all time starting line up i think he is a better fit off the bench if that makes sense,, lol
Russell
Bird
Hondo
Cousy
Pierce
McHale
[QUOTE=Duranthebest]If Paul Pierce becomes the Celtics # 1 scorer, I'm going to cry for 100 nights.[/QUOTE]
havlicek: 26,395 points
bird: 21,791 points
pierce: 20,682
just under 6000 away... 4 more seasons?
[QUOTE=gts]havlicek: 26,395 points
bird: 21,791 points
pierce: 20,682
just under 6000 away... 4 more seasons?[/QUOTE]
He's been averaging around 1,500 PTS a season since th big 3 era(except for the injury season last year). Let's say he scores 700-800 more points this season + another 4500 in the next 3 seasons. That'll put him only 500-400 points away from the record. :eek:
If Pierce stays healthy, in shape and motivated to play, I can see him breaking the record at age 36-37.
[QUOTE=gts]havlicek: 26,395 points
bird: 21,791 points
pierce: 20,682
just under 6000 away... 4 more seasons?[/QUOTE]
He'll pass Bird next year as long as he doesn't get injured.
Upon reading the responses, I guess it's not so crazy after all to assume that Pierce would be a top 5 Celtic.
[QUOTE=mlh1981]Upon reading the responses, I guess it's not so crazy after all to assume that Pierce would be a top 5 Celtic.[/QUOTE]
The Celtics didn't have a abundance of awesomes scoerers in their history. Bird averaged 24PPG for his career as a Celtic, that's #1. Pierce is #2 at 22PPG.
[QUOTE=mlh1981]Upon reading the responses, I guess it's not so crazy after all to assume that Pierce would be a top 5 Celtic.[/QUOTE]
don't forget we are talking about this while he is playing. the nostalgia factor will boost up his rating more than anything once he retires.
[QUOTE=MMM]Pierce ranks anywhere from 5-8. What bodes well for him is that he is in the top 5 in many of the statistical categories but obviously in Boston players are rated via Championships. So another ring could really help ensure his legacy currently I think I would have him in the all time Celtics starting line up though that doesn't necessarily make you a top 5 Celtic.
Russell
McHale
Bird
Pierce
Cousy
Bench
Cowens
Heinsohn
Hondo
Jones
DJ
Garnett
Jo Jo White[/QUOTE]
Move Cowens and Jo Jo White above PP. PP would be behind even DJ if he wasn't saved by KG and Ray Ray.YOu need to add TIny and Parrish to this list also.
[QUOTE=steve]Oh yeah, definitely. I'd easily put Cousy, Russell, Havlicek, and Bird ahead of Pierce. I guess there could be a debate once you get past those four, but not with those four.[/QUOTE]
GO Google Dave Cowens and get back with me.
[QUOTE=Niquesports]Move Cowens and Jo Jo White above PP. PP would be behind even DJ if he wasn't saved by KG and Ray Ray.YOu need to add TIny and Parrish to this list also.[/QUOTE]
Those weren't my all-time rankings
no way would KG be so high on my list.
lol @ Pierce is a top 5 ..... he's not even a top 10
1.Russell 2.Bird 3.Havileck 4.Cousy 5.McHale 6.Sam Jones 7.Cowens 8.Sharman 9.Jo Jo White 10.Parish
good try spud
1) Bird (the most representative celtic, he's bigger than Russell for the c's)
2) Russell
3) McHale
4) Cousy
5) DA TRUTH
Where's Rondo?
no, he's just there long enough
[QUOTE=Niquesports]GO Google Dave Cowens and get back with me.[/QUOTE]
Condescending much? Cowens would probably go ahead of him, as well as McHale. He has a lot of winning and an MVP, but the relative shortness of his career leaves the door open for a debate on the issue.
Four Automatics:
Russell
Bird
Hondo
Cousy
after that it's between Pierce, Heinsohn McHale, Parish, Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Jo Jo White, Dennis Johnson and KG.
I can't put Pierce above McHale or Jones.
He is either just in or just out for me, but the 4-8 spots are real tough to order up.
Pierce over McHale and the reason is longevity? McHale retired at 35. Pierce is 33. How does that work?
Actually, nevermind. Pierce over McHale at all?
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xFffjDSucJE/TQg4n6CReLI/AAAAAAAAATI/c0XR1Y-S09k/s1600/celebrity-pictures-homer-simpson-facepalm-copy.jpg[/IMG]
i dont know much about the celtic history but paul should definitely be recognized
[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Four Automatics:
Russell
Bird
Hondo
Cousy
after that it's between Pierce, Heinsohn McHale, Parish, Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Jo Jo White, Dennis Johnson and KG.
I can't put Pierce above McHale or Jones.[/QUOTE]
I agree with most of your post.
I put Pierce at 5 though, for the following reason: he has been the most face of the franchise for this entire decade.
McHale and Jones were never THE iconic players on their respective teams, due to the greatness of Russell and Bird. Pierce has been a Celtic his entire career and has been the team's best player for the bigger part of it. He has won less championships ofc, but on an individual level (statistically, all star selections, recognizition), I'd say he has had a better career than Mchale and Jones (this is subjective of course).
I've never seen Sam Jones play, but I read about him and I know he was great. But so was Pierce and Pierce was the leader of his squads, unlike Jones (these squads were less dominant than Jones's teams though)
Pierce will mostly be remembered for being part of the big three I think. The original Celtic who stayed put and got a team built around him every player would wish for.
He's top 5 in my book.
McHale is easily better then Pierce; greatest low post scorer in league history should be ranked over a prototypical All-Star who won't leave any sort of legacy behind. The Messiah was known for a niche, his low post scoring and incredible foot work; how many players scored 27 PPG on over 60 FG%? Sure he doesn't have a similar longevity of Pierce, but his peek demolishes anything Pierce has ever done at his peak. :facepalm
Russell, Bird, Hondo, Cousey and McHale are players that should and will be remembered as better Celtic players (in comparison to Pierce).
All of those players are in the top 50; you honestly think Pierce will one day be elected on that list? Please, most overrated player perhaps I have ever witnessed in my life.
Heck is he even better then Robert Parish? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Toizumi]I agree with most of your post.
I put Pierce at 5 though, for the following reason: he has been the most face of the franchise for this entire decade.
McHale and Jones were never THE iconic players on their respective teams, due to the greatness of Russell and Bird. Pierce has been a Celtic his entire career and has been the team's best player for the bigger part of it. He has won less championships ofc, but on an individual level (statistically, all star selections, recognizition), I'd say he has had a better career than Mchale and Jones (this is subjective of course).
I've never seen Sam Jones play, but I read about him and I know he was great. But so was Pierce and Pierce was the leader of his squads, unlike Jones (these squads were less dominant than Jones's teams though)
Pierce will mostly be remembered for being part of the big three I think. The original Celtic who stayed put and got a team built around him every player would wish for.
He's top 5 in my book.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: What? So your argument is that Pierce led a Celtic squad for an entire decade [B]fishing[/B] practically every season until a silver spoon was inserted into his mouth with the signing of Allen & Garnett? Being the face of the franchise just isn't the same when your achievements are limited and not very flattering.
I could care less if he won the finals MVP; we all know KG was the heart & soul of that team, he was their leader in 2008 and most importantly Ray Allen was robbed of that NBA finals.
Pierce on that 80's Celtic team would be a third wheel at best, it just so happens that those two players played with Bird & Russell. One player who is clearly better then him, if you know anything about basketball in the 80's (concentrating mostly on McHale, am not as knowledgeable on Sam Jones).
Pierce is easily one of the most loyal players in Celtic history, going through all those tough years; but skill wise, it's a preposterous sentiment to suggest him being better then guys like Russell, Bird, McHale, Hondo or Cousy. Those are icons in Celtic history; Pierce didn't bring much of anything to the franchise besides loyalty and a bunch of All-Star appearances. Let me rephrase; he never achieved anything note worthy (besides that one conference final appearance) as the [B]best[/B] player on his team; so please don't bring up that weak-ass "But McHale was a 2nd fiddle..." argument... :rolleyes:
Idk how Hondo and Cousy would have fared in a contemporary NBA setting.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]Idk how Hondo and Cousy would have fared in a contemporary NBA setting.[/QUOTE]
Hondo was still putting up good all around numbers in the 1970's.
[QUOTE=mlh1981]Upon reading the responses, I guess it's not so crazy after all to assume that Pierce would be a top 5 Celtic.[/QUOTE]
Why, because Pierce could become the #1 scorer in Celtic history? :oldlol:
Bill Russell was never known for his scoring; Bird & Hondo were much more complete players then Pierce and Cousy is just an icon in Celtic history, a PG who distributed the ball rather then score. A perennial All-Star like Pierce shouldn't even be allowed to be in the same tier as him, let alone be considered better then him.
Besides Bird & Hondo; those three players (including McHale) simply either didn't have as long of career or they simply played different positions and had different strengths (other then being asked to be a primary scorer). And although Pierce could beat out Bird & Hondo on the All-Time scoring list; those guys were a heck of a lot more complete as basketball players.
Pierce is good at everything, I'm not dissing him. He is a really good player, an All-Star, who has had a great career. He is extremely clutch, a great scorer and an underrated defender. But he doesn't do anything at a legendary level; I can't see him being placed on that "Top 50 Players of All-Time" list, there are nearly 25-30 players in this past decade and in the 90's who were at least as good as Pierce was. Guys like Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson and Joe Dumars. None of those players should be considered better then any of those Celtic legends; and Pierce isn't exactly better then any of those careers either.
Boston have won the most titles; and those five individuals have won 90%+ for them; I find it an insult for anyone to consider Pierce above any one of those guys (McHale, Bird, Russell, Hondo or Cousy).
[QUOTE=Duranthebest]I've seen this topic discussed on different boards multiple times... The consensus top 6 is(in no order), Bird, Russel, Hondo, Cousey, Pierce and McHale. I'd put Pierce over McHale and Cousey based on longevity and career statistics.[/QUOTE]
I've seen them all in person, except Russell and Cousy era players.
My top 5 would be:
Bill Russell - for the championships and the overall excellence.
Larry Bird - I have never seen a player with so many all around skills. Bird was amazing at every aspect of the game, even on defense. He would frustrate the life out of other players. If he was playing today, he would foul out in a half. Very physical guy.
John Havlicek - amazing, amazing player. No doubt he's my favorite player ever. One of the best perimeter defenders I have seen in person, and a heady scorer. Was the bridging player for the Celtics.
Paul Pierce - He hasn't started to decline yet. He has one of the longest peak I have seen. His physical abilities have slowly diminished, but he has become an amazing shot creator off pump fakes and jam steps. He has become an excellent set shooter, and is still a top 3 finisher in the NBA. His defense also improves every year. (Wow, I feel like a homer)
Dave Cowens - McHale's body of work is too small and Bob Cousy didn't have the influence that Cowens had. He was a legit MVP.