in Cleveland?
he is clearly better than Lebron James in the "willpower" department. so i'm assuming he could've just "willed" that team to a championship.
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in Cleveland?
he is clearly better than Lebron James in the "willpower" department. so i'm assuming he could've just "willed" that team to a championship.
Original thread idea.
there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.
Here we go again.
[QUOTE=The Playmaker]there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.[/QUOTE]
i think MJ could have won with that team. the original is better than the copy.
kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009
and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team
prime kobe was alpha as f*CK
so to answer op... yes
Kobe is a great player but comparing Lebrons 06 team to the best NBA front line that Kobe won with in Gasol-Odom-Bynum is not really comparable. Kobe can win but not without a hell of a lot of BIG MAN help.
Current Lebron would take old Cavs team to championship.
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009
and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team
prime kobe was alpha as f*CK
so to answer op... yes[/QUOTE]
And what 90-100 all time player did the Cavs have? Their second best scorer was Larry Hughes.
Kobe had
Pau > Gooden
Bynum > Ilgauskas
Odom > Pavlovic
Lakers without Kobe were way higher than Cavs without LeBron.
[QUOTE=retaxis]Kobe is a great player but comparing Lebrons 06 team to the best NBA front line that Kobe won with in Gasol-Odom-[SIZE="7"]Bynum[/SIZE] is not really comparable. Kobe can win but not without a hell of a lot of BIG MAN help.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frewfr-2_zps337802f6.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frfr-1_zpsd1cfc0ef.jpg[/IMG]
He wouldn't get them out of the first round. Lebron is just a better player than Kobe.
Ken you know as well as I do Gasol - Odom (sixth man of the year) - Bynum (defence big body) was the best frontline in the NBA those years not to take anything from Kobe.
[QUOTE=K
Kobe won b2b with Gasoft, Odumb, No knees Bynum and Fisher the worst starting pg of all time as his best teammates, so YES..
My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:
This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?
I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.
For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!
So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye
[QUOTE=6 for 24]My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:
This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?
I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.
For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!
So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]
the problem here is
those cleveland teams won more games than any heat team thus far
and lebron is supposed to be better now than ever
so if it truly was ALL lebron... then the heat with 10 times better a linup should have resulted in atleast a few 60 win seasons by now...
but the truth is.. those cleveland teams werent built on offense. they were a defensive power house
they were like the bulls are now or with rose ... it didnt really matter that they had less offensive fire power
so yes. kobe could easly have won with those cleveland teams. all they were really missing was a guy who could perform in 4th quarters and keep composure in the playoffs... lebron lost his mind and tried doing too much. then choked when the the bright lights were on him
only in 2012 did lebron finally come out of his shell
If he played with that team in the West, i dont think he would have made the playoffs. In the East, he'd go out in the first round. That doesnt mean he's necessarily a worst player, he's just not the right kind of player to make that team a lot better than it's roster advertises, in my opinion.
Kobe is an amazing player in certain systems, and he depends a lot on the bigs while Lebron can adapt his game in any condition.
[QUOTE=6 for 24]My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:
This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?
I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.
For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!
So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]
My good man, Ayotunde Ndiaye
it pains me to inform you that putting the ball in the basket is not the only prerequisite to winning championships. one must also stop the other team from putting the ball in their own basket, preferably getting them to score less. consider it a contest of who hunts the most lions.
so in this contest, you not only need a team with a deadly hunter (such as your idol Kobe "Chucker" Bryant), but you also need a team with a "hunter stopper."
i think it is time to introduce you to a great "hunter stopper"
[IMG]http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/common/medialib/269/728701.jpg[/IMG]
he may not look like it, but he is currently the best at stopping the top hunter (his name is Kevin Durant btw and he has led the league in scoring for 3 straight years. who do you know in Mozambique has led your tribe in killing lions for 3 straight years?) in NBA today.
best of luck in your hunting endeavors btw.
Mr. Kenneth:
I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.
Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye
[QUOTE=6 for 24]Mr. Kenneth:
I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.
Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]
I'm actually laughing out loud... You could be GOAT poster. I hope you don't get banned.
[QUOTE=6 for 24]Mr. Kenneth:
I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.
Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]
Mr. Ayotunde Ndiaye,
that's a very interesting sport, and i agree the game you play is similar to the game of basketball. however, let me correct your analogy a bit more. think of basketball as having a limited number of stones to throw. killing the adulterer using less stones is thus more desirable as "chucking" with no moral concern will actually lead to your team losing as you will run out of stones if you cannot kill the adulterer in time.
considering how Kobe's doing with 3 other Hall of fame players... Yes. He could definitely win with Big Z or eric snow.
Mr. <8:
What a very attractive and well-dressed woman! Only the wealthiest of our ladies could afford such garments. I find it most hard to believe such a delicate flower could compete in this game, so you must be making a funny with me.
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye
(Could I get her number by chance?)
[QUOTE=6 for 24]Mr. <8:
What a very attractive and well-dressed woman! Only the wealthiest of our ladies could afford such garments. I find it most hard to believe such a delicate flower could compete in this game, so you must be making a funny with me.
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye
(Could I get her number by chance?)[/QUOTE]
Dear Ayotunde,
A woman he is not! I jest you not, but that person is actually a man. yes, surprising i know. but nevertheless, he is a man, who, i have been told to believe, has the blood of a turtle. it is said that is how he gets the stamina of stopping the top hunter, Kevin "baby face assassin" Durant. his turtle genes combine with his urkel sense and he stops the assassin with great ease.
[QUOTE=I<3NBA]Mr. Ayotunde Ndiaye,
that's a very interesting sport, and i agree the game you play is similar to the game of basketball. however, let me correct your analogy a bit more. think of basketball as having a limited number of stones to throw. killing the adulterer using less stones is thus more desirable as "chucking" with no moral concern will actually lead to your team losing as you will run out of stones if you cannot kill the adulterer in time.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this here, but even so a proper team effort can result in success. Imagine you have a gunner chucking a whole bunch of rocks from a distance with mediocre effectivness. But you also have three very tall guys up right near the pole who are throwing their rocks from where it is harder to miss. Plus you also have a wing player from the village who isnt afraid to guard for lions, and always does the guarding so the gunner can keep doing the heavy chucking.
This will lead to victory and the heavy chucker will be celebrated by the youngest villagers and the families who grew up too poor to have been allowed to go to school.
[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]I'm actually laughing out loud... You could be GOAT poster. I hope you don't get banned.[/QUOTE]
I hope he does
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]the problem here is
those cleveland teams won more games than any heat team thus far
and lebron is supposed to be better now than ever
so if it truly was ALL lebron... then the heat with 10 times better a linup should have resulted in atleast a few 60 win seasons by now...
but the truth is.. those cleveland teams werent built on offense. they were a defensive power house
they were like the bulls are now or with rose ... it didnt really matter that they had less offensive fire power
so yes. kobe could easly have won with those cleveland teams. all they were really missing was a guy who could perform in 4th quarters and keep composure in the playoffs... lebron lost his mind and tried doing too much. then choked when the the bright lights were on him
only in 2012 did lebron finally come out of his shell[/QUOTE]
No, the real problem is that those teams had success in the regular season because they tried harder and came to play every single night. That isn't to way they weren't really good...and your point about defense is true. But they lost because they didn't have enough talent to beat other elite teams...or teams that got hot.
Regular season success is not always an indication of how good a team is. The current Heat could win more games than those Cavs teams if they really wanted...hell, we just saw them win 27 in a row. But these guys take nights off and don't push themselves the way those Cavs teams did.
Yet we all know these Heat teams are infinitely better.
[QUOTE=6 for 24]My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:
This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?
I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.
For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!
So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/358bgh5.jpg.gif[/IMG]
Hell no, it's a small market. Stern wouldn't have supported him.
[QUOTE=I<3NBA]i think MJ could have won with that team. the original is better than the copy.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah I forgot LeBron was a copy.
[QUOTE=The Playmaker]there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.[/QUOTE]
This
Even Jordan wouldn't get a chip in Cleveland :lol
The '07 team? If that's the team you're talking about, there isn't a player in NBA history that could have led that particular team to a title. Not prime Shaq, not prime Jordan, not current LeBron, and certainly no form of Kobe.
That team was horrible. Larry Hughes missed the finals, that seems to be often overlooked. Besides if it wasn't for some miracle Boobie Gibson 3's, and a LeBron James massacre of Detroit in GM5, the Cavs don't even make the finals. Hell Kobe likely wouldn't have been able to get that team out of the first round. When he had comparable talent to that team he pouted, and his team got put out in the first round.
If you mean '10, then maybe. We don't know what would have happened if LeBron hadn't quit. In 2009 there's no shot. In order for the Cavs to win Kobe would have had to have at least a 43/8/8 series, as LeBron had a 38/8/8 one. Considering the numbers Kobe put up against those same Magic in the finals, I think it's safe to say we wouldn't see those numbers from Kobe.
[QUOTE=I<3NBA]i think MJ could have won with that team. the original is better than the copy.[/QUOTE]
MJ was in similar situation before he got the roster of Pippen / Grant with some lineup changes, look what happened, just being fair here. Even when he got Pippen/Grant he wasnt able to come up with a championship for about 3-4 years, with experience & lineup/strategy changes they got better and Lakers/Celtics/Pistons dying out helped alot aswell... i am not sure he or anybody could have won a championship with Larry Hughes or Mo Williams being their 2nd option....
All i am saying is that this is a team game unfortunately.... one player can have great impact, but if you do not have the required supporting cast then that wont matter, except perhaps give wins in the regular season and perhaps give a you playoff run.......
No even as a Kobe fan...nobody could with those rosters in 07 and 09. Lebron averaged 38,8 and 8 and still lost in 09 that says it all.
[QUOTE=pauk]MJ was in similar situation before he got the roster of Pippen / Grant with some lineup changes, look what happened, just being fair here. Even when he got Pippen/Grant he wasnt able to come up with a championship for about 3-4 years.
This is a team game unfortunately.... one player can have great impact, but if you do not have the required supporting cast then that wont matter...[/QUOTE]
True, but in 08 and 10...I'd argue that current Lebron gets it done in one of those years. Or at least he gets by the Celtics. So it's hardly going off the rails to think prime MJ would have been able to do some special things those years. 09 was just not going to happen because the Magic just went nuts...and the 07 team was just not good enough.
Kobe probably would've lead that team to a tile in 09 and 10, especially 10.
However, he wouldn't have gone as far with that 07 team, I think that team would be destroyed in ECF.
[QUOTE=pauk]MJ was in similar situation before he got the roster of Pippen / Grant with some lineup changes, look what happened, just being fair here. Even when he got Pippen/Grant he wasnt able to come up with a championship for about 3-4 years, with experience & lineup/strategy changes they got better and Lakers/Celtics/Pistons dying out helped alot aswell... i am not sure he or anybody could have won a championship with Larry Hughes or Mo Williams being their 2nd option....
All i am saying is that this is a team game unfortunately.... one player can have great impact, but if you do not have the required supporting cast then that wont matter, except perhaps give wins in the regular season and perhaps give a you playoff run.......[/QUOTE]
Exactly, people act like MJ could win before pippen showed up
Michael Jordan (before the age of 28) and Lebron James (before the age of 27) are some of the finest example in NBA history who could prove to you that no matter how good a player can get you may never win one if you do not have the cast.... Kobe Bryant is also a fine example during the time of after-Shaq and pre-Gasol, hell Kobe was at his absolutely max peak talent/skill wise around 2005, to no avail at the end of the day due to supporting cast.... many other examples... Oscar... Wilt... Shaq... Hakeem... D.Robinson... Duncan.... etc....
This is unfortunately not tennis.... the best player doesnt win championships, the best team does....
[QUOTE=Quintilianus]Kobe probably would've lead that team to a tile in 09 and 10, especially 10.
However, he wouldn't have gone as far with that 07 team, I think that team would be destroyed in ECF.[/QUOTE]
Celtics were too stacked from '08 to '10. one of the factors that kept stopping lebron except 09 where they were injured
[QUOTE=thabisyo]Celtics were too stacked from '08 to '10. one of the factors that kept stopping lebron except 09 where they were injured[/QUOTE]
It wasn't that the celtics were so stacked, it was their defense, and LeBron without that postgame that he only recently developed (which I think made him the best player in the league last year, hopefully for many years to come) wasn't able to do anything. That broke him down mentally.
Kobe, on the other hand, would've been able to score with his post moves, and since that was a team of shooters, something that Kobe has never had, it would've been interesting to see kobe being constantly doubled in the post and shooters getting all kinds of looks. And if you leave him 1v1 in the post, that's probably the deadliest weapon in the league.
Plus Kobe would never brake down mentally in any situation, he could start missing shots, but he would never quit, and we know that lebron quit.