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I don't get to watch the Spurs much, but whenever I can catch a game almost all his points seem to come off of jump shots, running the floor, smart cuts, and good guard play. When he tries to post up it seems like 60-70% of the time it's that same fadeaway off the right shoulder. Has his post game declined or were these the shots he normally made in the past?
[QUOTE=magic14]I don't get to watch the Spurs much, but whenever I can catch a game almost all his points seem to come off of jump shots, running the floor, smart cuts, and good guard play. When he tries to post up it seems like 60-70% of the time it's that same fadeaway off the right shoulder. Has his post game declined or were these the shots he normally made in the past?[/QUOTE]
Duncan had literally every post move in the book. He used both hands. Right hook left hook fade away. And a nice drop step. It was nothing flashy but it was the most effective post game of his era not named Shaq because Shaq was pure power. But Duncan dominated as well just with skill, touch and strength just not as much strength as Shaq. Duncan also never forced anything and in my opinion is why he didn't score more than he could have, he was so hell bent on making the right play. Kicking it out to open teammates when the double came that he took shots away from himself. But in hindsight his unselfishness set the blueprint of why the Spurs probably are who they are.
He had about four moves. Nobody could stop them. He would be given the ball a lot more to create than he is now, but really what he did was make smart plays with and without the ball and "control" the game on both ends. As far as the act itself of putting the ball in the basket, and especially of acquired "moves" with which to accomplish it, what he had was touch, timing, instinct, patience, and discipline -- not moves. I would also say he was never "dominant" as a scorer, or even as a scorer-creator, the way I've seen Larry Bird, MJ, and Lebron be. His impact on the game on offense was (to me) rather like Jason Kidd in patience and floor-wisdom with Zach Randolph's great touch and reflexes.
And of course his defense was in every way preternatural. I don't recall gaudy stats on that end - except for playoff success and championships. You couldn't ask for a better defender than Duncan. You could probably ask for a more dominant offensive player though. It's just you wouldn't be likely to get it. There probably aren't 5 guys in the league right now with more offensive impact than prime TD.
He was always very professional in his post game, a lot of NBA players aren't as articulate as he is, and that's always given him the advantage.
Only Duncan can stop Duncan from scoring in the post
[QUOTE=Warners0]Duncan had literally every post move in the book. He used both hands. Right hook left hook fade away. And a nice drop step. It was nothing flashy but it was the most effective post game of his era not named Shaq because Shaq was pure power. But Duncan dominated as well just with skill, touch and strength just not as much strength as Shaq. Duncan also never forced anything and in my opinion is why he didn't score more than he could have, he was so hell bent on making the right play. Kicking it out to open teammates when the double came that he took shots away from himself. But in hindsight his unselfishness set the blueprint of why the Spurs probably are who they are.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much said it all here.
The only thing I can add...or that I can think of, is his ability to control the game from the post. That goes beyond just the ability to score or to playmake or even facilitate. It's like what a PG does. That's his claim over guys like Shaq, even Hakeem. He was in complete control in the post.
Duncan could score on either block with consistency, whether it was the fadeaway referred to earlier, or the jump hooks. He's always had very good footwork and used fakes well. He also regularly made nice moves across the lane. Really, all you can ask for from a post player is to have a consistent shot over either shoulder, and Duncan had that, with a very good touch. He's always had a good outside shot up to 18-20 feet, but he has relied on it more the last 5 years or so. Probably to preserve his body.
He also had a very soft touch which made his post up moves even deadlier. I think people underestimate his size though. He was almost as tall as Garnett but heavier.
Solid replies in this thread. :cheers:
Let me try breaking down Duncan's game in his prime:
He was a solid 7 foot, 260 lbs with a round, not quite musculed frame and broad butt that allowed him to set up station on the pivot better than almost any other big in the last 30 years. :eek:
That enabled him to draw more fouls. As the Big Fundamental, Duncan had superior footwork and a larger repertoire of moves in the low post than even Hakeem Olajuwon. Duncan had a solid bankshot, though it waxed and waned. Post up moves topped by a brutally efficient right handed jumphook. Excellent spin moves, stronger left hand than most great post up bigs, and had a longer shooting range than almost anyone. Amazing handle, especially during face-up attempts.
Where guys like Karl Malone would go to a shaky turnaround jumper in the clutch, Duncan went to work on the low-post. :rockon:
Very dominant. Ambidextrous, excellent range, and you rarely saw him make a bad decision with the ball. He was a perfectionist in that he would make the right play; whether it was a baby hook with either hand, passing to the open teammate, or stepping back and hitting his trademark bank shot.
how good? really, [I]really[/I] f***** good.
At his peak, you could stick him on any team in the league and they would be an instant playoff team, no matter who else was on the roster- he had a huge positive impact that goes well beyond statistics (even though his stats are beastly)
He completely dominated games even without scoring-- he is the very definition of a winning basketball player, and sits in an elite group with the Bird's and Magics' of the world who make everyone else better and can turn a team of poop nuggets into a team of gold nuggets.
tim duncans first playoff game
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0[/url]
the commentators reaction at 3:45 is absolutely epic. :bowdown: :bowdown:
Best in the League :bowdown:
[B]Really Good. He Wasn
Maybe the best high post big man in the history of the game. His ability to shoot, pass, and drive from the high post and wing area was astonishing. He was able to control the game on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball, something very few players, even great players, are able to accomplish.
Some great replies in this thread.
One other thing that Duncan did better than pretty much everyone else, if not in history then at least in his era was getting blocked, regaining possession and finishing the play. Duncan could get blocked two or three times in a play and still convert the basket in the end. He would never get fazed by the defense.
He also mastered all the subtleties of a pivot's ground game. Commentators often notice things like footwork and moves, but they're not the only offensive skill needed for a bigman. For instance, how you use your upper body is tremendously important - if you play in the low post, you quickly realize that this is arguably the single most overlooked post skill in the game. You can create a big advantage by positioning your body a certain way, using your elbow and shoulder, etc. McHale and Olajuwon are mostly praised for their footwork but they too were amazing at this aspect of the game.
He was legitimately great. Even today he's probably one of the best 3 or so in that regard.
[QUOTE=Warners0]Duncan had literally every post move in the book. He used both hands. Right hook left hook fade away. And a nice drop step. It was nothing flashy but it was the most effective post game of his era not named Shaq because Shaq was pure power. But Duncan dominated as well just with skill, touch and strength just not as much strength as Shaq. Duncan also never forced anything and in my opinion is why he didn't score more than he could have, he was so hell bent on making the right play. Kicking it out to open teammates when the double came that he took shots away from himself. But in hindsight his unselfishness set the blueprint of why the Spurs probably are who they are.[/QUOTE]
Every single thing that is said right here.
What is the point of discussing duncans game, the only thing that matters is how many rings did he get, how many as "the man", was he "the man" for all his rings, did he get any rings while not "the man" but as "robin" instead and how does his number of rings compare to the rings of others who won rings as "the man"
[QUOTE=Akrazotile]What is the point of discussing duncans game, the only thing that matters is how many rings did he get, how many as "the man", was he "the man" for all his rings, did he get any rings while not "the man" but as "robin" instead and how does his number of rings compare to the rings of others who won rings as "the man"[/QUOTE]
Because not basketball fan is an idiot.
I never saw Duncan or Hakeem/McHale in their prime, but it seems to me that while Duncan never had the 'flash' of those 80s big men, he didn't need it.
It seems like Hakeem has all the moves to get the defender to bite of a shot fake or move out of position, while Duncan looks more patient, using more subtle fakes to get the defender off balance and then capitalise on that mistake.
No idea if that's accurate but that's how it looks on highlights.
Not a new thread but for sure Duncan's repertoire of post moves is versatile and balanced . He can score going to or away from the basket, go off the dribble, face up, shoot in the midrange, against double and triple teams, etc.
Won't be surprised if Duncan to younger fans becomes an underrated scorer, but like Warners0 has mentioned it was often by design and basically the fabric of the Spurs brand of basketball. He could have scored more but he played for a slow paced, grind em out team and it wasn't always what the team needed. He attracted so much attention even without scoring (Michael Finley may have been butt hurt over his end with the Mavs, but in his first season with SA he said (paraphrasing) that he had never played with a player that commanded so many double teams, in reference to Duncan).
Tim Duncan lead the Spurs in assists (5+ per game) in his second championship run and it's in his nature to make the right play. He has immaculate court vision for a big man... Having said that, his scoring and presence [I]was[/I] dominant in his prime. If he was in his prime currently, he'd be the best player in the league IMO.
some of his scoring numbers:
[B]30+[/B] points --- ~120 games
[B]25-29[/B] points --- ~200 games
[B]20-24[/B] points --- ~300 games
Career high 53 points against Dirk's Mavs
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9wOz1fBtmg[/url]
27 ppg / 14 rpg averages in the 1999 Finals
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAFX-gIeMvI[/url]
37 pts / 16 rebounds to knock Shaq's Lakers out of the playoffs, ending their reign.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_iN6qwvoS8[/url]
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Only Duncan can stop Duncan from scoring in the post[/QUOTE]:applause:
duncan is the guy i would go to learn post game if i was a young big in the league. I don't think hakeem is a good option unless you have elite footwork and lateral speed like him.
[B]Great. Not on the level of Hakeem, McHale or Kareem's, let's say, but great regardless. Very skilled and smart.[/B]
[QUOTE=Rose'sACL]duncan is the guy i would go to learn post game if i was a young big in the league. I don't think hakeem is a good option unless you have [U]elite footwork[/U] and lateral speed like him.[/QUOTE]
It's not like Duncan doesn't have elite footwork. He is on par with Hakeem in that area. But Hakeem was way too quick and agile.
Don't forget that BANK shot :applause: :bowdown:
That bank shot was money. pun.
I am going to miss Timmy when he is gone. :(
Charles barkley was a better offensive player.
His running right hook across the lane was money with or without contact, with or without elevation.