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If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
Would they...
A) Be better (be mentioned with Jordan/Wilt/Bird/Shaq)
B) Be the same (superstars)
C) Suck (rot on the bench for the OKC Thunder)
Your thoughts.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
I think West was skilled enough to hang, but Mikan would get abused. He would simply not be athletic enough to hang, IMO.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=QuestFor17]I think West was skilled enough to hang, but Mikan would get abused. He would simply not be athletic enough to hang, IMO.[/QUOTE]I agree with Mikan. I also think West would be as good as Luke Ridnour in his prime (and only if surrounded by great teammates, similar to what I like to call the "Rajon Rondo" effect). But if he was asked to lead a team on his own, I think he'd be really, really bad.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
There's some ambiguity here. Do you mean if they were literally time warped here in their primes, or if they developed in today's climate with the advancement of the game? If you mean the former, then I think Mikan wouldn't be much better than a Jeff Foster, but West, I think, would be a good player. If you mean the latter scenario, then both have a good shot at becoming all star caliber players.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Stiff #1]GTFO of here.[/QUOTE]
You don't think if Mikan was developed in today's NBA climate that he couldn't be as good as Kevin Love or Tyler Hansbrough coming in? Brad freaking Miller was an all star. I don't think it's a stretch to say Mikan could have a good shot at being one too.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
is this BULLS new screen name? lol
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Showtime]You don't think if Mikan was developed in today's NBA climate that he couldn't be as good as Kevin Love or Tyler Hansbrough coming in? Brad freaking Miller was an all star. I don't think it's a stretch to say Mikan could have a good shot at being one too.[/QUOTE]
Hell no.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
West was 6'5 SG, with solid athletcism, and huge wingspan...add in his phenominal shooting ability, tenacious D, clutchness, and court awareness. I'm sure he'd excel in todays game.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Showtime]You don't think if Mikan was developed in today's NBA climate that he couldn't be as good as Kevin Love or Tyler Hansbrough coming in? Brad freaking Miller was an all star. I don't think it's a stretch to say Mikan could have a good shot at being one too.[/QUOTE]
People please, just ignore this guy.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Valliant13]West was 6'5 SG, with solid athletcism, and huge wingspan...add in his phenominal shooting ability, tenacious D, clutchness, and court awareness. I'm sure he'd excel in todays game.[/QUOTE]
West was 6'1" in shoes with a slow first step, terrible vertical, poor ball-handling skills and the mental toughness of a third grade female. He would be Luke Ridnour at his absolute best.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
Alright people, that's enough. Time to stop denying the facts and realize that Jerry West and George Mikan would be nothing more than ass-scratching, ear-picking bums warming the very END of the OKC Thunder bench if they played today.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE]West was 6'1" in shoes with a slow first step, terrible vertical, poor ball-handling skills and the mental toughness of a third grade female. He would be Luke Ridnour at his absolute best.[/QUOTE]
OK, whatever, BULLS/3323/Legends/G I N T/whatever else. :lol
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
What if Larry Bird played today? Do you think he would be better than Hedo Turkoglu or...?
Imagine if Manu had a Reggie Miller mid-range shot, was First Team All D and led the league in steals, blocks (for a guard), FTA, drove relentlessly, and could pass. Do you think a player like that would be good?
Did you ever see the 1972 All Star game?
Or the '69 Finals?
This guy is a robot.
Archibald said West played him the toughest...and West was old by then...
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Stiff #1]Alright people, that's enough. Time to stop denying the facts and realize that Jerry West and George Mikan would be nothing more than ass-scratching, ear-picking bums warming the very END of the OKC Thunder bench if they played today.[/QUOTE]
Grow up kid. Maybe make some friends so you don't spend you days forcing out the same repetitive schtick.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE]This message is hidden because Psileas is on your ignore list. [/QUOTE]What was that?
[QUOTE=stephanieg]What if Larry Bird played today? Do you think he would be better than Hedo Turkoglu or...?
Imagine if Manu had a Reggie Miller mid-range shot, was First Team All D and led the league in steals, blocks (for a guard), FTA, drove relentlessly, and could pass. Do you think a player like that would be good?
Did you ever see the 1972 All Star game?
Or the '69 Finals?
This guy is a robot.
Archibald said West played him the toughest...[/QUOTE]Did you read the original post? Is there any mention of Larry Bird, Manu Ginobili, or other stars/legends? I have seen the 1969 Finals and also the 1972 Finals. You might want to watch the '72 Finals again.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Valliant13]Grow up kid. Maybe make some friends so you don't spend you days forcing out the same repetitive schtick.[/QUOTE]
Time for you to use some common sense and accept the fact that these guys would be powerade-chugging 12th men getting their only burn during 30-point blowouts.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Showtime]There's some ambiguity here. Do you mean if they were literally time warped here in their primes, or if they developed in today's climate with the advancement of the game? If you mean the former, then I think Mikan wouldn't be much better than a Jeff Foster, but West, I think, would be a good player. If you mean the latter scenario, then both have a good shot at becoming all star caliber players.[/QUOTE]
good post, i always thought this when questions like theese are posed
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Stiff #1]Time for you to use some common sense and accept the fact that these guys would be powerade-chugging 12th men getting their only burn during 30-point blowouts.[/QUOTE]
If Robert Swift can be a starter, and Kwame Brown can be a starter, and Mark Blount can be a starter, then please STFU.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=QuestFor17]I think West was skilled enough to hang, but Mikan would get abused. He would simply not be athletic enough to hang, IMO.[/QUOTE]
+1
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
I guess BULLS decided the emoticons weren't working his argument.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Showtime]You don't think if Mikan was developed in today's NBA climate that he couldn't be as good as Kevin Love or Tyler Hansbrough coming in? Brad freaking Miller was an all star. I don't think it's a stretch to say Mikan could have a good shot at being one too.[/QUOTE]
Tyler Hansborough is not an NBA player...good job comparing him to only white players:no:
Mikan was very slow and not get off the ground. He also never competed against black players. if he made the league he would never get off the bench and surely never start.
Even if west grow up in the 80's he would still have trouble making the league...all the training in the world can only overcome so much.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Younggrease]Tyler Hansborough is not an NBA player...good job comparing him to only white players:no: [/quote]
Did you not see the part of my post where I was discussing his chances of becoming an all star COMING INTO THE LEAGUE? Tyler will be considered a player who has a good chance at being an all star when he enters, as was Kevin Love.
[quote]Mikan was very slow and not get off the ground. He also never competed against black players. if he made the league he would never get off the bench and surely never start.[/quote]
Again, go back and read my post about the two DIFFERENT premises of the debate.
[quote]Even if west grow up in the 80's he would still have trouble making the league...all the training in the world can only overcome so much.[/QUOTE]
Today's players coming into the game grew up in the 90's and were born in the mid-late 80's. West, who was already a great athlete then, could certainly be capable of developing his body even further and being capable of reaching all star status.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Showtime]Did you not see the part of my post where I was discussing his chances of becoming an all star COMING INTO THE LEAGUE? [B][U][SIZE="7"]Tyler will be considered a player who has a good chance at being an all star when he enters[/SIZE][/U][/B], as was Kevin Love.
Again, go back and read my post about the two DIFFERENT premises of the debate.
Today's players coming into the game grew up in the 90's and were born in the mid-late 80's. West, who was already a great athlete then, could certainly be capable of developing his body even further and being capable of reaching all star status.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Stiff #1]West was 6'1" in shoes with a slow first step, terrible vertical, poor ball-handling skills and the mental toughness of a third grade female. He would be Luke Ridnour at his absolute best.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying Luke Ridnour is going to be the new NBA Logo?
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE]Tyler will be considered a player who has a good chance at being an all star when he enters, as was Kevin Love. [/QUOTE][IMG]http://www.nba.com/media/timberwolves/madsen_playerpreview_292.jpg[/IMG]
:applause:
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=bagelred]Are you saying Luke Ridnour is going to be the new NBA Logo?[/QUOTE]
Good point. The fact that a punk like Jerry West is the NBA logo just makes me wonder why the NBA has as many fans as it does. Name me one person with any basketball knowledge who believes West deserves the logo over any one of the following:
M. Jordan
S. O
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Scott Pippen][IMG]http://www.nba.com/media/timberwolves/madsen_playerpreview_292.jpg[/IMG]
:applause:[/QUOTE]
^ Madsen was a 29th pick, not top 5 (which Love was).
[QUOTE=Godfather]:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
"Will be considered" to be a player who could reach that level, not "will be an all star". Christian Laettner, Mike Bibby, etc were college stars who many thought were going to be big time players in the NBA. Christian made it to one all star game, and Bibby has never been an all star. Yet, they had the tools and the ability to be that level, no? Kevin Love and Tyler Hansbrough may never be all stars, but coming out of college and entering the NBA, they certainly have that potential and ability. If an undrafted Brad Miller can do it, then certainly Love and Hansbrough have the potential to do it. My original point about Mikan was that like these players, he would be no different in the aspect of having the potential and ability to one day be an all star player, and I think Mikan in today's league could have a good chance at being an all star talent if he was developed in today's basketball climate.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Showtime]^ Madsen was a 29th pick, not top 5 (which Love was).
"Will be considered" to be a player who could reach that level, not "will be an all star". [B]Christian Laettner, Mike Bibby, etc were college stars who many thought were going to be big time players in the NBA. Christian made it to one all star game, and Bibby has never been an all star. Yet, they had the tools and the ability to be that level, no? Kevin Love and Tyler Hansbrough may never be all stars, but coming out of college and entering the NBA, they certainly have that potential and ability. If an undrafted Brad Miller can do it, then certainly Love and Hansbrough have the potential to do it.[/B] My original point about Mikan was that like these players, he would be no different in the aspect of having the potential and ability to one day be an all star player, and [B]I think Mikan in today's league could have a good chance at being an all star talent if he was developed in today's basketball climate[/B].[/QUOTE]
Do you watch/read college basketball. No one says Tyler is going to be an all star unless china mistakes him for one of their own. Draft boards have him in the 20's because he is an excellent hustle player who will bring some energy off the bench. You keep referring back to Brad Miller, but the fact is he had the tools and the size to succeed. While Tyler doesn't have the tools, the skill s (1 move post game with average jump shot) to become an all star.
I hate when people look at stats from college and expect greatness.
Certainly. Mikan though lacking the tools to compete in today's game has the skills..something Tyler does not.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Godfather]Do you watch/read college basketball. No one says Tyler is going to be an all star unless china mistakes him for one of their own. Draft boards have him in the 20's because he is an excellent hustle player who will bring some energy off the bench. You keep referring back to Brad Miller, but the fact is he had the tools and the size to succeed. While Tyler doesn't have the tools, the skill s (1 move post game with average jump shot) to become an all star. [/quote]
The projections I've seen have Tyler around the 15 ish range, which isn't exactly "6th man" range. What you don't get about Miller was that he didn't have the tools when he came to the NBA. He played off the bench as a hornet before becoming a Bull. He wasn't a great passer or shooter then. He developed those skills. He became even better when he went to Indiana and then Sacramento. He didn't enter the league as a great shooter or passer. Love and Tyler may or may not be fully developed. While it may end up Tyler won't be more than a Maddog player, he can also develop his game like Brad Miller did.
[quote]I hate when people look at stats from college and expect greatness.[/quote]
I'm not expecting greatness, just saying that the potential to develop into a star is there, and there isn't a reason to say that Mikan wouldn't have the potential to be a star either.
[quote]Certainly. Mikan though lacking the tools to compete in today's game has the skills..something Tyler does not.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly why I brought up Miller, because he didn't come into the league with those skills, he had to develop and improve them. Certainly Tyler will be coming into the league with better expectations than an undrafted Miller, wouldn't you agree? When Miller came into the league, I'm sure being a Maddog 6th man on a chip team would be something to strive for.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
Pryzbilla would make both of them his bltch.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Showtime[B]]The projections I've seen have Tyler around the 15 ish range, which isn't exactly "6th man" range. What you don't get about Miller was that he didn't have the tools when he came to the NBA. He played off the bench as a hornet before becoming a Bull. He wasn't a great passer or shooter then. He developed those skills.[/B] He became even better when he went to Indiana and then Sacramento. He didn't enter the league as a great shooter or passer. Love and Tyler aren't fully developed. While it may end up Tyler won't be more than a Maddog player, [B]he can also develop his game like Brad Miller did. [/B]
I'm not expecting greatness, just saying that the potential to develop into a star is there, and there isn't a reason to say that Mikan wouldn't have the potential to be a star either.
That's exactly why I brought up Miller, because he didn't come into the league with those skills, he had to develop and improve them. Certainly Tyler will be coming into the league with better expectations than an undrafted Miller, wouldn't you agree? When Miller came into the league, I'm sure being a Maddog 6th man on a chip team would be something to strive for.[/QUOTE]
Please enlighten yourself with these up to date projections
[URL="http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/8516"]http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/8516[/URL]
[URL="http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2009/"]http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2009/[/URL]
[URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank?draftyear=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank%3fdraftyear%3d2009"]http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank?draftyear=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank%3fdraftyear%3d2009[/URL]
Brad Miller had the size the and the athleticism when he came into the league. What do you mean he didn't have the tools?
Yes Tyler can develop his skills, but right now he does not have a stable post game, he cannot shoot at a long range, does not have the passing ability, and most importantly he does not have the size nor athleticism to compete with NBA bigs.
Stop comparing Love to Tyler aside from both being white their games and personalities are completely different.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE]Even if west grow up in the 80's he would still have trouble making the league...all the training in the world can only overcome so much.[/QUOTE]
Reasons, please, [B]reasons[/B].
Is it because he didn't use to perform dunks or crossovers? In case you forgot, Larry Bird didn't perform these, either, and Bird as an athlete was clearly West's inferior. Or is it something deeper. Hey, if I have the right to say whatever the hell comes to my mind without justifying it, I can also say that Bird would not survive in the 00's.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Godfather]Please enlighten yourself with these up to date projections
[URL="http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/8516"]http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/8516[/URL]
[URL="http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2009/"]http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2009/[/URL]
[URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank?draftyear=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank%3fdraftyear%3d2009"]http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank?draftyear=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank%3fdraftyear%3d2009[/URL]
[/quote]
Ok, so those sites have him in the 20's. I stand corrected. I guess the general consensus isn't that Hansbrough will be a star player. However, my point about potential to develop remains.
[quote]Brad Miller had the size the and the athleticism when he came into the league. What do you mean he didn't have the tools? [/quote]
Size and athleticism? Maybe size, but he was never a great athlete. Also, he wasn't an all star because of his athleticism. He was an all star because of his passing and shooting skills, which he developed. When he was traded to Sacramento, he didn't make the all star team because of his athleticism. Vlade didn't make the all star team because he was a great athlete.
[quote]Yes Tyler can develop his skills, but right now he does not have a stable post game, he cannot shoot at a long range, does not have the passing ability, and most importantly he does not have the size nor athleticism to compete with NBA bigs. [/quote]
6'8'' 245lb isn't bad for a PF, and I think he can hold his own physically (West and Brand and Barkley could hold their own physically). Also, shooting and passing are skills that can be developed, which is one major point why I keep referencing Miller. Miller had no post game, and made a living off the elbow midrange shot, passing ability, running the floor and setting screens. Again, Tyler may NEVER be any better than he is right now, but that doesn't mean the potential to develop further isn't there. This discussion has gotten a little out of hand. My original comments were about potential to become stars in the league, not a breakdown of each players' games. I think we can agree that Mikan wouldn't be worse than Love or Hansbrough, so I think it's safe to say that if Love gets taken at 5, then it's quite possible Mikan would be considered a player who would have a good shot at being an all star one day.
[quote]Stop comparing Love to Tyler aside from both being white their games and personalities are completely different.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't comparing their games or personalities. I was simply bringing out how both have potential, and that Mikan wouldn't be WORSE than those two. If Hansbrough can be a top 20 pick, and Love can be a top 5 pick, then certainly Mikan wouldn't be considered worse, and therefore wouldn't be a bench scrub. Contrarily, I think Mikan would have a good shot at becoming an all star if a player like Brad Miller (who coming into the league didn't have nearly the expectations of Hansbrough) could do it.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[IMG]http://cache.nba.com/media/history/mikan_bw.gif[/IMG]
George Mikan
Enshrined 1959
Born: June 18, 1924
Joliet, IL
Died: June 2, 2005
The marquee above Madison Square Garden that flashed "George Mikan vs. Knicks" aptly told the story of basketball's original superstar. The first dominant big man in professional ball, George Mikan played with a competitive fire and zest matched by few. Playing under Hall of Fame coach Ray Meyer at DePaul University, the 6-foot-10 Mikan along with fellow Hall of Famer Bob Kurland, swatted away so many shots that in 1944 the NCAA introduced a rule that prohibited goaltending. Unaffected by the rule change, Mikan led DePaul to the 1945 NIT title. Mikan enjoyed an extraordinary professional career, most notably winning championships with the Minneapolis Lakers. A dominating offensive force, Mikan led three different professional leagues in scoring and set the standard for all future centers. He was voted the greatest player in the first half century by the Associated Press.
All-America at DePaul, 1944, 1945
All-NBA First-Team, 1950-54
Four-time NBA All-Star, 1951-54
Championships with the Chicago Gears, 1947, and Minneapolis Lakers, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1952-54
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
Why must Jeff let this ****head always come back and **** his dumbass posts all over the forum?
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
Why do people always try and compare players from the past to the modern league/players. You just can't. The only thing you can compare them to is the league/players they competed against. Back then players had to take other jobs in the offseason for example, because pay was a tiny fraction of what pro athletes make now. They didn't have time, resources, equipment, staff, etc. that modern athletes have. How good do you think a guy like say VC would be if he had to take a job driving a cab in the offseason, and only made $200 a game, with no time for the physical training, and the dedicated coaching and skill development that he enjoys today?
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Stiff #1]Would they...
A) Be better (be mentioned with Jordan/Wilt/Bird/Shaq)
B) Be the same (superstars)
C) Suck (rot on the bench for the OKC Thunder)
Your thoughts.[/QUOTE]
George Mikan is not gonna be better than Jordan/Wilt/Bird/Shaq since he's actually undersized in current NBA as a center(6'10"), but would still be a superstar player and make All-star games every year. For Jerry West, well, I'm telling you he'd still be the 2nd SG in NBA franchise history, better than Kobe.
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
the players and basketball itself evolves
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Re: If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?
[QUOTE=Psileas]Reasons, please, [B]reasons[/B].
Is it because he didn't use to perform dunks or crossovers? In case you forgot, Larry Bird didn't perform these, either, and Bird as an athlete was clearly West's inferior. Or is it something deeper. Hey, if I have the right to say whatever the hell comes to my mind without justifying it, I can also say that Bird would not survive in the 00's.[/QUOTE]
It was a typo..I meant Mikan..I was in a hurry...I take that back im a huge West fan and he was a hell of an athlete
Still think Mikan might not make the league..