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Beal vs Waiters
Beal : 14/6/2 0.8 blocks/1.4 steals 43% shooting 34% from three
Waiters: 13/2/3 0.3 blocks/1.8 steals 48% shooting 36% from three
Beal played 34 minutes a game.... waiters played 24.
so beal scores three more points, grabs four more rebounds, and 1 less assists but plays 10 more minutes a game????
waiters scores much more efficiently as well?
beal draws comparisons to eric gordon.... waiters draws comparison to young dwayne wade???
boheiem says the only person that can guard waiters one on one in the nba is russell westrbrook.
im startin to like this pick more and more
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
there were concerns about his attitude, but he seems to have put them behind him, while beal is about a high character guy as there is
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
beal played out of position almost the entire season and is a freshman u fukin idiot
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
Like I said, we'll see. Beal playes a more prototypical shooting guard role to go with Kyrie. I liked how Beal's game differed from Irving's. Waiters likes to go to the basket. It'll be interesting to see how Irving and Waiters go together since they both have similar styles of play in that regard.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=dbk123]beal played out of position almost the entire season and is a freshman u fukin idiot[/QUOTE]
True. Waiters did play off the bench as well.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=dbk123]beal played out of position almost the entire season and is a freshman u fukin idiot[/QUOTE]
so what? that doesn't make him a better shooting then waiters?
waiters improved in every aspect of the game expcept free throw shooting this season. and put up similar stats to beal playing 10 minutes less and being a sixth man...
how does beal playing out of position help your case? if he played in his posistion he would have had less rebounds (which is one of the things people are going crazy over him about.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
and like all syracuse players, he will have to adjust to playing man defense
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[IMG]http://www.truthaboutit.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/beal_with_it-226x300.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=Meticode]Like I said, we'll see. Beal playes a more prototypical shooting guard role to go with Kyrie. I liked how Beal's game differed from Irving's. Waiters likes to go to the basket. It'll be interesting to see how Irving and Waiters go together since they both have similar styles of play in that regard.[/QUOTE]
yah, but you dont want to take a spot up shooter wit the fourth pick if you expecting big things from this team. it nice to have a guy like that off the bench, but if we are trying to get a championship then you need a guy whos can drive, shoot, defend, and control the ball if kyrie is out.
can't complain about a guy who is getting comparisons to a young dwayne wade though.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=LBJMVP]yah, but you dont want to take a spot up shooter wit the fourth pick if you expecting big things from this team. it nice to have a guy like that off the bench, but if we are trying to get a championship then you need a guy whos can drive, shoot, defend, and control the ball if kyrie is out.
can't complain about a guy who is getting comparisons to a young dwayne wade though.[/QUOTE]
man you've done complete 180 on this guy in the space of like an hour!?
i wish i was as optimistic
at this point, i just dont know. im not upset, im just reserved to the fact that we wont know for while, whether it was the right move
we can spend the summer predicting, but its all in vain
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=chips93]man you've done complete 180 on this guy in the space of like an hour!?
i wish i was as optimistic
at this point, i just dont know. im not upset, im just reserved to the fact that we wont know for while, whether it was the right move
we can spend the summer predicting, but its all in vain[/QUOTE]
i know... like i said, after spending everyday since the end up the regular season thing we were getting beal, barnes, MKG, Drummond i come home to see dion waiter so i was in initial shock because i never really watched the guy...
but then i watch some highlights listen to some interviews, check out some stats/comparisons
and it shocked me to see that he is the same size as beal, played 10 minutes less and scores only three points less per game on much higher efficienty/averaged more assist/ and steals.
im not to concerend about the rebounds since beal was obviously gonna get more playing out of position.
alot of people hail him as one of the only players that can be more than an above average nba starter... and alot of GM's said he has true superstar potential.
plus has a great defensive rating.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
The cognitive dissonance among Cavaliers fans is f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]king astounding.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
I guess once you loose greatness you can be happy with any kind of POS. props to the OP :applause:
Zeller was good tho
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/WAZVD.gif[/IMG] :coleman:
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=AlonzoGOAT]I guess once you loose greatness you can be happy with any kind of POS. props to the OP :applause:
Zeller was good tho[/QUOTE]
seriously... waiters was actually the taller college player, shot better, better defended, went to the hoop better shot threes betters.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=LBJMVP]seriously... waiters was actually the taller college player, shot better, better defended, went to the hoop better shot threes betters.[/QUOTE]
Beal the taller pro doe
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=The Macho Man]Beal the taller pro doe[/QUOTE]
how do you know?
didnt waiters skip the measurement?
unless he didnt grow the slightest bit sit the beginning of the college basketball season then yes, beal is taller.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
Think you ill because you brag about Beal
But my n*gga Swag the real, Real Deal
Swag!
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
I like Waiters better. Beal has no handle and will not get to the rack damn near ever.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]Think you ill because you brag about Beal
But my n*gga Swag the real, Real Deal
Swag![/QUOTE]
Don't do em like that J
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
I currently attend Cuse and watched every single one of his games closely (him, Fab and Rakeem Christmas as they are our best prospects) and he may have come off the bench but he was by far our best player. Unprecedented penetration ability, fairly quick defender, decent J but he can NOT fall in love with it if he wants to be great. The reason he didnt start was due to seniority and that's how coach likes to do it. Same reason Dion almost left after his freshman year. He was good enough to start but his role/age made him a 6th man.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]I currently attend Cuse and watched every single one of his games closely (him, Fab and Rakeem Christmas as they are our best prospects) and he may have come off the bench but he was by far our best player. Unprecedented penetration ability, fairly quick defender, decent J but he can NOT fall in love with it if he wants to be great. [B]The reason he didnt start was due to seniority and that's how coach likes to do it. [/B] Same reason Dion almost left after his freshman year. He was good enough to start but his role/age made him a 6th man.[/QUOTE]
The only thing that bothers me about the above statement is that I vividly remember underclassmen starting for him in the past, so I have to wonder if there wasn't something else with Waiters that led him to come off the bench as opposed to starting... And I'm not talking anything about his on-court talent.
Being totally forthcoming, I am a bit worried about him in the locker room and off the court. Butting heads with coaches at Syracuse isn't exactly the ideal kind of player that you want at No. 4. Literally all of my current concerns are off the court, though, because I've seen enough of him on it to warrant this pick being made.
The good news is that he will learn under the strictness of Byron Scott. That can go one of two ways... Either very good or very bad. The other good thing is the team that surrounds him. It isn't like he is going to Sacramento where there are concerns with the mental makeup of the players...
In Cleveland, he is going to be sharing the spotlight with Kyrie, Tristan, Varejao, Zeller and Gee... All extremely high character players.
Maybe being in a culture like that is exactly what Dion needs? I hope so...
Btw, Chad Ford gave us an A- for our draft. Pretty favorable analysis...
[QUOTE][B]CLEVELAND CAVALIERS | GRADE: A-
Round 1: Dion Waiters (4), Tyler Zeller (17, from Mavs)[/B]
[B]Round 2: None[/B]
Analysis: For the second straight year, the Cavs took a player at No. 4 who was ranked in the late teens on our Big Board in May. Like Tristan Thompson last year, Waiters had a meteoric rise the last month of the season. Unlike Thompson, his rise happened without ever doing a workout or interview with the Cavs. The Suns shut down Waiters early in the draft process, but it only seemed to start a Waiters feeding frenzy for teams ahead of them.
Waiters is the most dynamic scorer in the draft -- his ability to get to the basket is truly special -- and a handful of GMs felt that after Davis, MKG and Beal, he was the guy in this draft with the most star potential. He has NBA skill and, together with Kyrie Irving, should create a dynamic backcourt in Cleveland. Some will say taking Waiters at No. 4 was a bold pick, but I think it was a smart one with both MKG and Beal off the board. People said the same thing a few years ago when the Thunder took both Russell Westbrook and James Harden higher than expected.
I'm more agnostic about the Zeller pick. He's not going to be a great NBA center, but he runs the floor well and can play right away. At No. 17, you can't really ask for more than that. [/QUOTE]
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The only thing that bothers me about the above statement is that I vividly remember underclassmen starting for him in the past, so I have to wonder if there wasn't something else with Waiters that led him to come off the bench as opposed to starting... And I'm not talking anything about his on-court talent.
Being totally forthcoming, I am a bit worried about him in the locker room and off the court. Butting heads with coaches at Syracuse isn't exactly the ideal kind of player that you want at No. 4. Literally all of my current concerns are off the court, though, because I've seen enough of him on it to warrant this pick being made.
The good news is that he will learn under the strictness of Byron Scott. That can go one of two ways... Either very good or very bad. The other good thing is the team that surrounds him. It isn't like he is going to Sacramento where there are concerns with the mental makeup of the players...
In Cleveland, he is going to be sharing the spotlight with Kyrie, Tristan, Varejao, Zeller and Gee... All extremely high character players.
Maybe being in a culture like that is exactly what Dion needs? I hope so...
Btw, Chad Ford gave us an A- for our draft. Pretty favorable analysis...[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't matter how good he was, Scoop was starting no matter what and Triche was a better pure shooter he just fit in a little better with the starting unit. Also, Waiters was perfectly fine this year in terms of character issues and he's well aware of his needed maturity at the next level. I wish we had more of a veteran guard to reel him in sometimes if he ever gets out of hand. But Byron Scott is a good guard's coach so we'll see. I have a good feeling about the pick.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]It wouldn't matter how good he was, Scoop was starting no matter what and Triche was a better pure shooter he just fit in a little better with the starting unit. Also, Waiters was perfectly fine this year in terms of character issues and he's well aware of his needed maturity at the next level. I wish we had more of a veteran guard to reel him in sometimes if he ever gets out of hand. But Byron Scott is a good guard's coach so we'll see. I have a good feeling about the pick.[/QUOTE]
Boobie Gibson has been around the block. I also expect us to pick up a couple of veteran players between now and the start of the season. The current roster is just a little too young/inexperienced. They are going to need the steady hand and guidance from respected professionals.
Anthony Parker and Antawn Jamison did a great job of that last year. I'm sure we will get some vets in here to replace them.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=LBJMVP]seriously... waiters was actually the taller college player, shot better, better defended, went to the hoop better shot threes betters.[/QUOTE]
You didnt see either player in college. Why are you typing like you did? Did you know what Beal did the last 12gms of his college career? Go check those stats. How many lottery picks have there been where the player came off the bench? Marvin Williams comes to mind.
Note, I'm not here to say Beal > Waiters. I like the Waiters pick, but why am I reading your posts like you think you have a clue. All this he was better this, that and the third. And the fact of the matter is you didnt see either play much in college last season. You need to slow down. I know you're a Cavs fan but dont go around being a fake fanboy of a player.
Other Cavs fans like Meticode, chips, RBA speak arent doing that. Take notes.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
GOBB might not be saying Beal > Waiters, but I am.
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
In no way shape or form was Waiters ever a better shooter than Beal. Beal however can only get into the paint utilizing a pump. Once people figure that out he'll be slightly easier to defend. I hope Dion does everything in his power to try to work with Wade in the off season somehow. Perfect player to model after minus the B-atch attitude but Waiters is a real tough guy so he won't be a punk like wade in terms of flopping (hopefully)
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=Fiasco]GOBB might not be saying Beal > Waiters, but I am.
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.[/QUOTE]
What exactly are you basing it on? I just don't see how you can make the argument that Beal is better.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=Fiasco]GOBB might not be saying Beal > Waiters, but I am.
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.[/QUOTE]
I liked Beal a lot. The one thing that worries me most about Waiters is a non-issue with Beal... Character/Attitude issues.
Don't get me wrong... Waiters may get here and be an exemplary citizen and teammate. I don't want anyone to think I'm casting stones at the guy for no reason.
But, he did have run-ins with the coaching staff during his freshman year. The poster above (KyrieTheFuture) seems to know more about his situation at Syracuse and doesn't seem too concerned with any off court issues with Waiters, so maybe I shouldn't either.
But still, Beal gave maybe the best, most genuine, intelligent radio interview I have ever heard from an athlete that young a few weeks ago on Cleveland sports radio.
As for their games, I think there is much less of a gap if there is any gap at all. Beal has an unquestionably better jumpshot (regardless of what the statistics say) and Waiters is unquestionably the better slasher.
Waiters has an adequate jumper that looks like it has the potential to get better and Beal is an adequate slasher.
Defensively, I think both guys have the potential of being disruptive with their nice respective wingspans and quick feet.
Beal is a tenacious rebounder. Clearly ahead of Waiters in this area from what I've seen.
So, right now, I would give the edge to Beal as a prospect and he is the guy (along with MKG) that I was hoping for coming into the draft. However, I don't think the gap is huge and I also believe that, if Waiters improves as a jumpshooter, he may have a higher ceiling than Beal... Because his first step is explosive and I'm not sure if that is something you can teach.
We'll see how it plays out.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]I liked Beal a lot..... and Beal is an adequate slasher. [/QUOTE]
There is nothing adequate about Beal as a slasher. He will struggle to beat NBA defender's off the bounce with any regularity; what's worse is Beal has no in-between game.
Like any young player there is room for development but Beal is the wrong player going to the wrong situation (the Wizards).
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
As Waiters stated post-draft he was a top 15 recruit and everything had been handed to him all his life. He "never had to work for anything" he has repeatedly stated the Boeheim teaching him how to work to be great had a huge effect on him. He has said all his coach headbutting was a result of believing he deserved more because he was immature. He entered syracuse a boy and left a man. Or at least that's his favorite signing off phrase for interviews.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]As Waiters stated post-draft he was a top 15 recruit and everything had been handed to him all his life.[/QUOTE]
Really? I didn't think he was that highly touted of a prospect coming outta high school. I'm not positive but didn't think he was ranked in the top 15 going into college. Pretty sure Rivals had him near 30 :confusedshrug:
Not that he wasn't a 5 star prospect but clearly didn't have everything handed to him or didn't have to work.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Really? I didn't think he was that highly touted of a prospect coming outta high school. I'm not positive but didn't think he was ranked in the top 15 going into college. Pretty sure Rivals had him near 30 :confusedshrug:
Not that he wasn't a 5 star prospect but clearly didn't have everything handed to him or didn't have to work.[/QUOTE]
Well idk he said top 15 in his interview so that's what I used I didn't follow college until this year because I've always preferred the Pros so I'll have to check what his ranking was.
Edit: 15 on ESPN 29 on Rivals
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Really? I didn't think he was that highly touted of a prospect coming outta high school. I'm not positive but didn't think he was ranked in the top 15 going into college. Pretty sure Rivals had him near 30 :confusedshrug:
Not that he wasn't a 5 star prospect but clearly didn't have everything handed to him or didn't have to work.[/QUOTE]
Waiters was top 15 pretty much up until his senior year. Waiters committed to Syracuse during his sophomore year. When his senior came and he decided not to reopen his recruitment all of a sudden guys that were not better than him started moving up the board when he just sat there.
As ridiculously tough as his personal life was Waiters has in fact had everything handed to him when it comes to basketball. He didn't play basketball his freshman year in high school but dominated a Syracuse basketball camp and was given a private school scholarship.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=Da KO King]Waiters was top 15 pretty much up until his senior year. Waiters committed to Syracuse during his sophomore year. When his senior came and he decided not to reopen his recruitment all of a sudden guys that were not better than him started moving up the board when he just sat there.
As ridiculously tough as his personal life was Waiters has in fact had everything handed to him when it comes to basketball. He didn't play basketball his freshman year in high school but dominated a Syracuse basketball camp and was given a private school scholarship.[/QUOTE]
Good to know. I honestly didn't know just whatever I read his final year he seemed ranked outside the top 15 in most places. Didn't strike me as everything came easy.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVm57uNFwfw&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/url]
This alone exceeds anything I've seen from Beal on tape. Tremendous change of direction skills with ability to pull up from anywhere. He can go both directions seamlessly and has a buttery smooth stroke off the bounce and in catch and shoot situations.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
I was estatic with the pick after Beal and MKG were gone. Waiters reminds me of Monta more than Wade though. He get's to the rack whenever he wants
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
Beal >> Waiters
sry cavs fans we got your guy
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[QUOTE=GOBB]You didnt see either player in college. Why are you typing like you did? Did you know what Beal did the last 12gms of his college career? Go check those stats. How many lottery picks have there been where the player came off the bench? Marvin Williams comes to mind.
Note, I'm not here to say Beal > Waiters. I like the Waiters pick, but why am I reading your posts like you think you have a clue. All this he was better this, that and the third. And the fact of the matter is you didnt see either play much in college last season. You need to slow down. I know you're a Cavs fan but dont go around being a fake fanboy of a player.
Other Cavs fans like Meticode, chips, RBA speak arent doing that. Take notes.[/QUOTE]
how are you gonna say i didnt see either player?
i live in the south were SEC sports is everthing... televised everything.
i watched beal alot, and also saw him choke against louisville :D
can't say i saw that many syracuse game, but i did see some.
seen tons of highlights and like what i see.
gets to the hole way better than beal, has a deadly step back.
good ball handling good three point shooting... im just saying that alot of hype was over beal's rebounding well i can deal without having a rebounding shooting guard.
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Re: Beal vs Waiters
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPWOJrXJeqg[/url]
Reporter " Do you believe your the best guard in your estimate in the tournament?" Waiters "Yeah" Reporter "Now I said the best guard" Waiters "Yeah" Reporter " then whos second?" Waiters "Whoever"