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#1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
Every single player, coach and analyst says this.. Among non-big men - Bird, Magic, and MJ elevated teammates better than anyone.. Kobe does well too - the story was never that his teammates underperformed.
Otoh, the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates underperform - this is because he turns them into play-finishers and [I]their predictable play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs[/I].
This inferior brand of basketball that Lebron imposes on his team is why his team/supporting cast underperforms - it's like clockwork... 2/7 anyone?.. Utimately, this is why he isn't a top 10 all-time player.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.
Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.
So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.
Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.
So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.[/QUOTE]
slayed :lol
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.
Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.
So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.[/QUOTE]
Wrong.
Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.
Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.
Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.
Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.
So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Wrong.
Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.
Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.
Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.[/QUOTE]
You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=AirBonner]You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan[/QUOTE]
After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.
You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?
:whatever:
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=warriorfan]After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.
You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?
:whatever:[/QUOTE]
I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=AirBonner]I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him[/QUOTE]
Yeah Jordan got just as much benefit from playing with Pippen as Pippen did with Jordan.
You have exposed yourself as a troll. You can get the f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ck out now.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.
Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.
So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.[/QUOTE]
REKT
@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
#1 criteria should be how high was a player's on court impact.
that's why I have Olajuwon comfortably in the Top5
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
Bulls without Jordan - 55 wins
Lebron James on the Heat in his final year - 54 wins
So Jordan essentially lost to the Magic with a team better than the 2014 Miami Heat. Meanwhile Bron was able to get a worse team to the final.
Bron making his teammates better once again.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=aj1987]REKT
@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?[/QUOTE]
Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.
If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.
Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.
So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.
[/QUOTE]
[I][COLOR="Navy"]Jordan's team won every series where Pippen played poorly - in those series, Jordan simply carried the team and didn't worry about Pippen.
But anytime Jordan needed Pippen to play well to win the series, he made sure Pippen was playing well[/COLOR].[/I]
There was only a ONE game where Scottie's poor performance caused the Bulls to lose, and Jordan was helpless to do anything about it - this was Pippen's epic choke in Game 7 of ECF (1-10 for 2 points), where Pippen [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h22m15s]admitted[/url] the pressure got to him.. Not much MJ could do about that.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.
If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
So, what happened during the 2nd 3peat? MJ stopped pushing him? Also, what about the dozens of other athletic players? He couldn't develop them into at least Kevin Martin level offensive players? How about Bill Cartwright? Luc Longley? Bosh was a better rebounder than them.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=Dr Hawk]
#1 criteria should be how high was a player's on court impact.
that's why I have Olajuwon comfortably in the Top5
[/QUOTE]
3-peat to 2nd Round and back to 3-peat is the GOAT impact...
Heck, if we wanted to confirm MJ's 3-peat to 2nd Round impact, we'd have him come back and 3-peat again while winning MVP's the whole way.... Done and Done.
Also, MJ had the GOAT impact on bad teams too - just look at 1989 - the 47-win Bulls would've missed 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8/54%.
So the Bulls would've been lottery heading into 1990, instead of ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting first 3-peat.. Again, that's the GOAT impact.. :pimp:
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball]Jordan's team won every series where Pippen played poorly - in those series, Jordan simply carried the team and didn't worry about Pippen.
[I[COLOR="Navy"]]But anytime Jordan needed Pippen to play well to win the series, he made sure Pippen was playing well[/I][/COLOR].
There was only a ONE game where Scottie's poor performance caused the Bulls to lose, and Jordan was helpless to do anything about it - this was Pippen's epic choke in Game 7 of ECF (1-10 for 2 points), where Pippen [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h22m15s]admitted[/url] the pressure got to him.. Not much MJ could do about that.[/QUOTE]
How about when the team carried Jordan in the 5-19 performance?
Can you imagine Bron's Cavaliers beating a 66 win team like the Sonics, or say the GSW with Bron shooting 5-19?
Or how about his massive choke in 98 against the Pacers in game 7? 9/25 and down almost the whole game? Thankfully Kukoc and Kerr are there to hit the big shots and carry him to victory.
All this bullshit talk about MJ being on a whole other level mentally, and his will to win needs to stop. Like anyone who has ever played sports, you realise a lot of it is up to you, but then there is being the winner of circumstance and chance, and those are all the things that came together for MJ in a way that didn't for many others.
MJ is no better a player than Shaq or Wilt or Lebron. Those 4 in all likelihood are probably the best basketball players ever. If one is better than the other, it isn't because of some BS, arbitrary standard you hold them to. 2/6 for Bron? Who cares. 1/9 for West? Who cares. Is West any worse a player because he lost 8 times? Clearly he is good enough to compete on the biggest stage every time.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball]3-peat to 2nd Round and back to 3-peat is the GOAT impact...
Heck, if we wanted to confirm MJ's 3-peat to 2nd Round impact, we'd have him come back and 3-peat again while winning MVP's the whole way.... Done and Done.
Also, MJ had the GOAT impact on bad teams too - just look at 1989 - the 47-win Bulls would've missed 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8/54%.
So the Bulls would've been lottery heading into 1990, instead of ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting first 3-peat.. Again, that's the GOAT impact.. :pimp:[/QUOTE]
'06-'10 Cav's and '09 Heat would've been in the lottery as well. Wade and LeBron... GOAT level impact. :bowdown: :bowdown:
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball]3-peat to 2nd Round and back to 3-peat is the GOAT impact...
Heck, if we wanted to confirm MJ's 3-peat to 2nd Round impact, we'd have him come back and 3-peat again while winning MVP's the whole way.... Done and Done.
Also, [B]MJ had the GOAT impact on bad teams too[/B] - just look at 1989 - the 47-win Bulls would've missed 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8/54%.
So the Bulls would've been lottery heading into 1990, instead of ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting first 3-peat.. Again, that's the GOAT impact.. :pimp:[/QUOTE]
Wrong. Olajuwon had a higher impact than Jordan.
1994 Finals. Olajuwon's second best player was Vernon Maxwell. His stats were:
13/3/3 on .365 FG%
That was the SECOND best player. Olajuwon still managed to beat the Ewing's, Starks', Oakley's, Mason's Knicks.
Jordan never did that
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=aj1987]'06-'10 Cav's and '09 Heat would've been in the lottery as well. Wade and LeBron... GOAT level impact. :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Boosting a lotto team to an early playoff exit team is nothing to brag about. There has been countless players with this ability.
What makes a player special is the ability to make a good team one of the greatest of all time.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
Jordan shoots 47% TS against 61 win Miami team. No worries guys, series is over with a 4-1 win despite Jordan taking such a large number of shots too.
He made sure his teammates played well and carried him.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Boosting a lotto team to an early playoff exit team is nothing to brag about. There has been countless players with this ability.
What makes a player special is the ability to make a good team one of the greatest of all time.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Please stop posting, dude.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]Jordan shoots 47% TS against 61 win Miami team. No worries guys, series is over with a 4-1 win despite Jordan taking such a large number of shots too.
He made sure his teammates played well and carried him.[/QUOTE]
You are right he should of played LeBron ball and went for only 3 pointers and lay ups, saving his TS%, losing the series, and then still able to fall back and say "not enough help."
Genius.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=warriorfan]You are right he should of played LeBron ball and went for only 3 pointers and lay ups, saving his TS%, losing the series, and then still able to fall back and say "not enough help."
Genius.[/QUOTE]
So, what about the last Finals? Don't you constantly bitch about it like you're on your period?
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]
How about when the team carried Jordan in the 5-19 performance in game 6 of 1996 Finals?
[/QUOTE]
In addition to Jordan's 22/9/7 in Game 6, [I][COLOR="Navy"]he carried the team defensively[/COLOR][/I] - he held Hawkins to 2-6 for 4 points, which was 12 points less than Hawkins RS average and Finals average through 5 games.
[I][COLOR="Navy"]Otoh, all the other Bulls let their man go OFF[/COLOR][/I] - Pippen let Schrempf get 23 points on 53% shooting... Rodman let Kemp get 18/14 on 47%... Payton went off for 19/7 on 70% shooting... Everyone got destroyed EXCEPT Jordan - Jordan held his man to 12 points below his average, and the Bulls won by 12.
Meanwhile, Lebron can't even stop role players from being > Duncan (2014 Finals) or Curry (2015 Finals).
[QUOTE=plowking]
Can you imagine Bron's Cavaliers beating a 66 win team like the Sonics, or say the GSW with Bron shooting 5-19?
[/QUOTE]
MJ can do that because he carried his team defensively - and also, his style allows teammates to play well offensively alongside him.
Otoh, Lebron's defense is shit, and his teammates play like shit in the reduced play-finishing roles he imposes on them..
That's why he lost as a big favorite to Dwight's Magic, even though he averaged a career-high 39 ppg (sidenote: MJ had 6 series where he averaged over 40 ppg).
[QUOTE=plowking]
Or how about his [B]massive choke in 98 against the Pacers in game 7[/B]? 9/25 and down almost the whole game? Thankfully Kukoc and Kerr are there to hit the big shots and carry him to victory.
[/QUOTE]
29/9/8 with all the big plays down the stretch is a massive choke?
That's the best you can do?... That's the problem with trying to single out Jordan's worst games - his worst games are FAR better than everyone else's worst games, and he has far less OF them.
Should we compare 28/9/8 or 22/9/7 plus carrying the team defensively to Lebron's worst games?... There's no way you want to do that - it's a pointless exercise that you will lose very badly.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball]In addition to Jordan's 22/9/7 in Game 6, [I][COLOR="Navy"]he carried the team defensively[/COLOR][/I] - he held Hawkins to 2-6 for 4 points, which was 12 points less than Hawkins RS average and Finals average through 5 games.
[I][COLOR="Navy"]Otoh, all the other Bulls let their man go OFF[/COLOR][/I] - Pippen let Schrempf get 23 points on 53% shooting... Rodman let Kemp get 18/14 on 47%... Payton went off for 19/7 on 70% shooting... Everyone got destroyed EXCEPT Jordan - Jordan held his man to 12 points below his average, and the Bulls won by 12.
Meanwhile, Lebron can't even stop role players from being > Duncan (2014 Finals) or Curry (2015 Finals).[/quote]
Battier was defending Kawhi most of the time and Delly was on Curry. It's so easy to flip your logic on you. Scottie shut down Hawkins. MJ let Schrempf and Payton run a train on him.
[QUOTE=3ball]MJ can do that because he carried his team defensively - and also, his style allows teammates to play well offensively alongside him.[/quote]
Nope. Pippen was a better defender.
[QUOTE=3ball]That's why he lost as a big favorite to Dwight's Magic, even though he averaged a career-high 39 ppg (MJ had 6 series where he averaged over 40 mpg).[/quote]
And yet, when MJ loses, his teammates as horrible. When LeBron loses, he choked.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
This is really my first criteria. Whats use of better stats if he cant fit? Thats the spurs philosophy. Thats why im no fan of the westbrook, iverson, bran. They fill the statsheet but that style cant fit in a team concept. Thats why these guys have impacts lesser than their stats suggest. And some of them are even considered cancers by teammates. I prefer players like jordan, durant who are off-ball scorers or magic/isiah/cp3 who are pure pgs. Because you can still add players to them to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts. Meanwhile bran is a finished product. You cant add a player to fit with him. You cant add a durant/cp3 coz they are rendered useless.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=aj1987]
Battier was defending Kawhi most of the time and Delly was on Curry. It's so easy to [B]flip your logic[/B] on you. Scottie shut down Hawkins. MJ let Schrempf and Payton run a train on him.
[/quote]
Except you're lying and I'm telling the truth.
We aren't playing games with "logic" that you can "flip around" - we're stating facts here.. MJ didn't guard Schrempf or Payton in Game 6... He guarded Hawkins.
Now in [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw]Game 3[/url] and [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg]Game 5[/url], MJ was the primary defender on Payton - that's well-documented and common knowledge (click the links).
But not Game 6... In Game 6, Phil went back to the matchups he started the series with - SG vs. SG - MJ vs. Hawkins.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball][B]Except you're lying and I'm telling the truth[/B].
We aren't playing games with "logic" that you can "flip around" - we're stating facts here.. MJ didn't guard Schrempf or Payton in Game 6... He guarded Hawkins.
Now in [url=[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw]Game 3[/url] and [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg]Game 5[/url], MJ was the primary defender on Payton - that's well-documented and common knowledge (click the links).
But not Game 6... In Game 6, Phil went back to the matchups he started the series with - SG vs. SG - MJ vs. Hawkins.[/QUOTE]
Prove it.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=aj1987]Prove it.[/QUOTE]
You think it's hard to prove dumbass?
I'm about to very easily... Sit tight
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball]You think it's hard to prove dumbass?
I'm about to very easily... Sit tight[/QUOTE]
Yep. Show me where LeBron was guarding Curry/Kawhi for large stretches of the game and that MJ guarded Hawkins for the entire game.
BTW, Pippen scored 17/8/5 with 4 steals in that game and Rodman 9/19/5 with 3 steals and a block. Are you also gonna tell me that MJ shutdown Perkins?
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
.
[B][COLOR="Red"]Here's Game 3[/COLOR] where Jordan is the PRIMARY DEFENDER on Payton and matched up with him from tip-off - Marv Albert says it right before the first possession [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s]HERE[/url] (Bill Walton reiterates it too), and here's the first possession of the game, showing Jordan on Payton:[/B]
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/K2HTSy4Lj8Qh2/giphy.gif[/IMG]
[B][COLOR="Red"]This is Game 5[/COLOR], where Jordan is the primary defender on Payton again - here's [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahjmlco0roc&t=4m57s]game footage[/url], showing Jordan guarding Payton from tip-off, and here's the first possession of the game showing Jordan is matched up with Payton:[/B]
[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-22-2016/DWQyhB.gif[/IMG]
[B][COLOR="Red"]Here's Game 6[/COLOR], where Jordan is the primary defender on Hawkins, while PG Harper is back on PG Payton, and SF Pippen is on SF Schrempf:[/B]
[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-22-2016/B3QmoK.gif[/IMG]
[B]So there you go - Jordan held Hawkins to 2-6 for 4 points, which was 12 points less than his RS average and his average thru 5 games if Finals.
Meanwhile, Pippen was raped by Schrempf for 23 points on 53%... Payton killed Harper for 19 points on 70%... And Kemp destroyed Rodman for 18/14 on 47% (23/10 on 63.3 ts for series)..
Jordan CARRIED them defensively in Game 6 - he was the only guy who locked his man down, while Pip, Rodman and Harper's assignments had huge games.. And of course, MJ still led the team on offense as always, with 22/9/7.. That's how the Bulls won Game 6.[/B]
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball].
[SIZE="1"][B][COLOR="Red"]Here's Game 3[/COLOR] where Jordan is the PRIMARY DEFENDER on Payton and matched up with him from tip-off - Marv Albert says it right before the first possession [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s]HERE[/url] (Bill Walton reiterates it too), and here's the first possession of the game, showing Jordan on Payton:[/B]
[B][COLOR="Red"]This is Game 5[/COLOR], where Jordan is the primary defender on Payton again - here's [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahjmlco0roc&t=4m57s]game footage[/url], showing Jordan guarding Payton from tip-off, and here's the first possession of the game showing Jordan is matched up with Payton:[/B]
[B][COLOR="Red"]Here's Game 6[/COLOR], where Jordan is the primary defender on Hawkins, while PG Harper is back on PG Payton, and SF Pippen is on SF Schrempf:[/B]
[B]So there you go - Jordan held Hawkins to 2-6 for 4 points, which was 12 points less than his RS average and his average thru 5 games if Finals.
Meanwhile, Pippen was raped by Schrempf for 23 points on 53%... Payton killed Harper for 19 points on 70%... And Kemp destroyed Rodman for 18/14 on 47% (23/10 on 63.3 ts for series)..
Jordan CARRIED them defensively in Game 6 - he was the only guy who locked his man down, while Pip, Rodman and Harper's assignments had huge games.. And of course, MJ still led the team on offense as always, with 22/9/7.. That's how the Bulls won Game 6.[/B][/SIZE]
.[/QUOTE]
You literally posted ONE gif from game 6 and that's not even the entire play.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=plowking]
How about when the team carried Jordan in the 5-19 performance in game 6 of 1996 Finals?
[/QUOTE]
In addition to Jordan's 22/9/7 in Game 6, [I][COLOR="Navy"]he carried the team defensively[/COLOR][/I] - he held Hawkins to 2-6 for 4 points, which was 12 points less than Hawkins RS average and Finals average through 5 games.
[I][COLOR="Navy"]Otoh, all the other Bulls let their man go OFF[/COLOR][/I] - Pippen let Schrempf get 23 points on 53% shooting... Rodman let Kemp get 18/14 on 47%... Payton went off for 19/7 on 70% shooting... Everyone got destroyed EXCEPT Jordan - Jordan held his man to 12 points below his average, and the Bulls won by 12.
Meanwhile, Lebron can't even stop role players from being > Duncan (2014 Finals) or Curry (2015 Finals).
[QUOTE=plowking]
Can you imagine Bron's Cavaliers beating a 66 win team like the Sonics, or say the GSW with Bron shooting 5-19?
[/QUOTE]
MJ can do that because he carried his team defensively - and also, his style allows teammates to play well offensively alongside him.
Otoh, Lebron's defense is shit, and his teammates play like shit in the reduced play-finishing roles he imposes on them..
That's why he lost as a big favorite to Dwight's Magic, even though he averaged a career-high 39 ppg (sidenote: MJ had 6 series where he averaged over 40 ppg).
[QUOTE=plowking]
Or how about his [B]massive choke in 98 against the Pacers in game 7[/B]? 9/25 and down almost the whole game? Thankfully Kukoc and Kerr are there to hit the big shots and carry him to victory.
[/QUOTE]
29/9/8 with all the big plays down the stretch is a massive choke?
That's the best you can do?... That's the problem with trying to single out Jordan's worst games - his worst games are FAR better than everyone else's worst games, and he has far less OF them.
Should we compare 28/9/8 or 22/9/7 plus carrying the team defensively to Lebron's worst games?... There's no way you want to do that - it's a pointless exercise that you will lose very badly.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=aj1987]
You literally posted ONE gif from game 6 and that's not even the entire play.
[/QUOTE]
Jordan was the PRIMARY DEFENDER on Hawkins in Game 6 - this is indisputable fact - look at the footage - it's all there.
Btw, that's the problem with trying to single out Jordan's worst games - his worst games are FAR better than everyone else's worst games, and he has far less OF them.
Should we compare 28/9/8 or 22/9/7 plus carrying the team defensively to Lebron's worst games?... There's no way you want to do that - it's a pointless exercise that you will lose very badly... Lebron has 10 point, 8 point and 7 point playoff games - obviously, ALL LOSSES.
so yeah, the previous post that responded to plowking stands...
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball]Jordan was the PRIMARY DEFENDER on Hawkins in Game 6 - this is indisputable fact - look at the footage - it's all there.
Btw, that's the problem with trying to single out Jordan's worst games - his worst games are FAR better than everyone else's worst games, and he has far less OF them.
Should we compare 28/9/8 or 22/9/7 plus carrying the team defensively to Lebron's worst games?... There's no way you want to do that - it's a pointless exercise that you will lose very badly... Lebron has 10 point, 8 point and 7 point playoff games - obviously, ALL LOSSES.
so yeah, the previous post that responded to plowking stands...
.[/QUOTE]
If being this delusional helps you sleep better, then sure. :cheers:
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=aj1987]If being this delusional helps you sleep better, then sure. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
[I]Translation of your post[/I]: you posted facts and proved your point and I have nothing
#whiteflag
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball][I]Translation of your post[/I]: you posted facts and proved your point and I have nothing
#whiteflag[/QUOTE]
You're retarded and delusional. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=aj1987]You literally posted ONE gif from game 6 and that's not even the entire play.
:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=aj1987]
You literally posted ONE gif from game 6 and that's not even the entire play.
:oldlol:
[/QUOTE]
Jordan was Hawkins' primary defender in Game 6.. The fact that you're denying it even though I provided the footage makes you immature.
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Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
[QUOTE=3ball]Are you retarded?... Watch the game
Jordan was Hawkins' primary defender in Game 6.. The fact that you're denying it makes you immature.[/QUOTE]
I'm not denying it, you [COLOR="Black"]c[/COLOR]um dumpster. You said you would prove it and I want you to prove it. You posted a single random gif like the [COLOR="black"]f[/COLOR]aggot you are. Don't have the time to watch a 90 minute game just for a couple of plays. Unlike you, I have a life.