Is there anybody you would take over him to start a team? Kareem or Jordan maybe.
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Is there anybody you would take over him to start a team? Kareem or Jordan maybe.
Maybe wilt, kareem or hakeem. Thats it
Michael Jordan.
Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, Oscar, Lebron, Magic since I take loyalty to a franchise into account
How is Michael Jordan a Maybe? :lol
no mere mortal
Lets see. Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Kareem and Bird, Id take these five over Shaq. Cant think of anyone else.
:rolleyes:
Bird, Magic, MJ, and Kareem.
Arguably Russell and/or Wilt, too.
[QUOTE=FreezingTsmoove]Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, Oscar,[B] Lebron[/B], Magic [B]since I take loyalty to a franchise into account[/B][/QUOTE]
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
[QUOTE=BlackWhiteGreen]:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288636[/url]
Depends on what kind of team I want to build. One's vision for a team (as well as philosophy) will determine what personnel to get in order to achieve that vision.
With or without knowledge of their NBA careers? Because if you always know what the outcome is then you'll just pick the usually names (Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Russell). Then the maybe, Chamberlain, Bird, Duncan, LeBron.
Based on their college or high school prospective potential, I can only think of Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem, Magic and LeBron(because he was super hyped out of HS). But all of those guys are "maybe's."
I think only Kareem have a good chase to be picked over Shaq if we're going solely by their college/HS hype.
Maybe somebody with real good knowledge of draft scouting/reports can chime.
[QUOTE=Duderonomy]Is there anybody you would take over him to start a team? Kareem or Jordan maybe.[/QUOTE]
No one in the History of the NBA
You can add Magic & Larry to that list too.
You draft players of potential.
MJ is only 6' 6".
Kareem lacks brute strength of Shaq & need Magic, Bird like floor leader.
Hakeem too.
[B]Shaq was beast of nature. Blessed with Huge massive hands & strongest player to ever play in NBA. Even a lazy, bum Shaq will deliver atleast 3 NBA titles because 5 feet inside the paint. Shaq is absolutely UNSTOPPABLE.
Shaq can easily dominate because of his strength, brute force & huge hand size that controls the ball easily.
I see Shaq in the Draft. I'll pick him blindly over Top 5 GOATs.[/B]
Why?
[B]Shaq "GUARANTEED" multiple title[/B]s. Others, I'm not too sure about.
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]No one in the History of the NBA
You can add Magic & Larry to that list too.
You draft players of potential.
MJ is only 6' 6".
Kareem lacks brute strength of Shaq & need Magic, Bird like floor leader.
Hakeem too.
[B]Shaq was beast of nature. Blessed with Huge massive hands & strongest player to ever play in NBA. Even a lazy, bum Shaq will deliver atleast 3 NBA titles because 5 feet inside the paint. Shaq is absolutely UNSTOPPABLE.
Shaq can easily dominate because of his strength, brute force & huge hand size that controls the ball easily.
I see Shaq in the Draft. I'll pick him blindly over Top 5 GOATs.[/B]
Why?
[B]Shaq "GUARANTEED" multiple title[/B]s. Others, I'm not too sure about.[/QUOTE]
Partially agree with you but I think Kareem's legendary success at UCLA would get him some votes over Shaq on draft night.
I would pick Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]No one in the History of the NBA
You can add Magic & Larry to that list too.
You draft players of potential.
MJ is only 6' 6".
Kareem lacks brute strength of Shaq & need Magic, Bird like floor leader.
Hakeem too.
[B]Shaq was beast of nature. Blessed with Huge massive hands & strongest player to ever play in NBA. Even a lazy, bum Shaq will deliver atleast 3 NBA titles because 5 feet inside the paint. Shaq is absolutely UNSTOPPABLE.
Shaq can easily dominate because of his strength, brute force & huge hand size that controls the ball easily.
I see Shaq in the Draft. I'll pick him blindly over Top 5 GOATs.[/B]
Why?
[B]Shaq "GUARANTEED" multiple title[/B]s. Others, I'm not too sure about.[/QUOTE]
Shaq had to have a great floor leader to win, too - Penny, Kobe, Wade.
Kareem and Chamberlain were both far better centers than O'Neal ever was.
If I had to choose between Shaq & Tim Duncan I would probably have nightmares over that decision.
It's significantly easier to build a championship team around someone like Magic, MJ, or Bird than Shaq.
[QUOTE=FreezingTsmoove]Lebron[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
[QUOTE=DMV2]Partially agree with you but I think Kareem's legendary success at UCLA would get him some votes over Shaq on draft night.[/QUOTE]
disagree brother!
Not every NCAA success story is guaranteed NBA Success (HINT: christian Lattner was suppose to be NEXT Larry Bird)
-With Shaq I get exactly What I see.
[B]-Height of 7'1"
-Huge massive hands. Long Wingspan. Brute Force. Built like 3 trucks put into one.
-UNSTOPPABLE within 6 feet radius of the basket.
-Huge Hands guarantees tight ball handling in heavy traffic & one handed brutal dunks within 3 feet of the Basket.
-Nobody in the history of NBA can match this combo of Brutal force, height, wingspan, hand size & position. NOBODY !!![/B]
I'll take it. [B]Atleast 1 title is GUARANTEED[/B] (probably even 2 titles)!
with MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, I am not GUARANTEED I can win atleast 1 title without Building a perfect team around them.
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Shaq had to have a great floor leader to win, too - Penny, Kobe, Wade.
Kareem and [B]Chamberlain[/B] were both far better centers than O'Neal ever was.
If I had to choose between Shaq & Tim Duncan I would probably have nightmares over that decision.[/QUOTE]
Chamberlain has half the rings Shaq has and yet he's a "far better center" than Shaq? I want a player that dominates in the Playoffs and Finals during the modern era.
Probably no one. You can say Michael Jordan was the greatest player ever but still it'd be pretty crazy to draft Jordan over Shaq had they been on board at the same time.
[QUOTE=Human Error]Probably no one. You can say Michael Jordan was the greatest player ever but still it'd be pretty crazy to draft Jordan over Shaq had they been on board at the same time.[/QUOTE]
Why would it be crazy to draft Jordan over Shaq?
If the draft were today? Absolutely no one in history. You have to remember that Shaq was drafted in a golden era of centers. In today's league he would absolutely [I]dominate[/I], even more so than during his prime years.
Who the hell would be his challenger at the C position? Dwight? Marc Gasol? :lol
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]disagree brother!
Not every NCAA success story is guaranteed NBA Success (HINT: christian Lattner was suppose to be NEXT Larry Bird)
-With Shaq I get exactly What I see.
[B]-Height of 7'1"
-Huge massive hands. Long Wingspan. Brute Force. Built like 3 trucks put into one.
-UNSTOPPABLE within 6 feet radius of the basket.
-Huge Hands guarantees tight ball handling in heavy traffic & one handed brutal dunks within 3 feet of the Basket.
-Nobody in the history of NBA can match this combo of Brutal force, height, wingspan, hand size & position. NOBODY !!![/B]
I'll take it. [B]Atleast 1 title is GUARANTEED[/B] (probably even 2 titles)!
with MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, I am not GUARANTEED I can win atleast 1 title without Building a perfect team around them.[/QUOTE]
Not ever big guy is guaranteed a success either. Look at Thabeet and Oden.
We're looking at potentially, Kareem not only has the college success backing but also size and skills too. Laettner's success was more to due with the school he went to than his skills.
And like I said, Kareem's probably the only one you can make a case to pick over Shaq. That's actually saying a lot considering how many other all-time greats there are to pick.
[QUOTE=Young X]Why would it be crazy to draft Jordan over Shaq?[/QUOTE]
Shaq would be so much easier to build around, he will take his team to the playoffs no matter whom you surround him with. A team of Shaq + a legit NBA starter + 3 D-leaguers are still a playoff team. Can't say the same thing for Jordan.
[QUOTE=Young X]Why would it be crazy to draft Jordan over Shaq?[/QUOTE]
It would be a crazy pick in the 80's, or 90's. It was always common to go with a potentially great Big man over a potentially great perimeter player.
Things have changed over the past 10 years or so, and all because of Jordan. He made this league a perimeter superstar league. Nowadays, you have perimeter players hyped as much, or more than big's. In '03 alone, we got LeBron, Wade and Melo. Recent years, we got Durant, Rose and Wall.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Chamberlain has half the rings Shaq has and yet he's a "far better center" than Shaq? I want a player that dominates in the Playoffs and Finals during the modern era.[/QUOTE]
Wilt had a few bad playoff games in his career - a very few - but he ALWAYS carried a full load of wood for teammates. The only truly stacked team he ever had was the '67 Sixers - that same team was ruined with injuries in the '68 playoffs.
Meanwhile that dominating Shaq...................................
1993-94 Indiana Pacers [COLOR="Red"]sweep [/COLOR]Orlando Magic in first round
1994-95 Houston Rockets [COLOR="Red"]sweep[/COLOR] Orlando Magic in NBA Finals
1995-96 Chicago Bulls [COLOR="Red"]sweep [/COLOR]Orlando Magic in Eastern Conference Finals
1997-98 Utah Jazz [COLOR="Red"]sweep[/COLOR] Los Angeles Lakers in Western Conference Finals
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs [COLOR="Red"]sweep[/COLOR] Los Angeles Lakers in Western Conference
2006-07 Chicago Bulls [COLOR="Red"]sweep[/COLOR] Miami Heat in first round
Rings are won by teams, no question, but Chamberlain was always able to drag teams along behind him while Shaq had a lot dismal playoff failures even with some great teammates.
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]disagree brother!
Not every NCAA success story is guaranteed NBA Success (HINT: christian Lattner was suppose to be NEXT Larry Bird)[/QUOTE]
Laettner was never the GOAT college player. Mentioning him in the same breath as Alcindor is ridiculous. Attempting to equate a "success story" to [b]GOAT level[/b] is only something people with agendas would do, as they're only interested in proving their "point" and thus don't have an issue with taking liberties with the truth.
If you look at the college GOATs, Alcindor, Walton, Russell and Robertson, they were all all-time greats in the NBA as well, with the only note being that Walton's greatness was limited to a couple of seasons due to injury, but during that brief period he was an all-time great. (On an aside, it's also a more compelling argument when a player's dominance extends to multiple levels of play. If you dominate in college and continue to dominate once you get to the pros, being a GOAT candidate on both levels, that's definitely a plus as it means their dominance is transcedent.)
[QUOTE=DMV2]Not ever big guy is guaranteed a success either. Look at Thabeet and Oden.
.[/QUOTE]
Did you deliberately skip the HIGHLIGHTED with BOLD I typed ??
[B]Many here missing the whole point IMO[/B]
Guys.....You Draft someone on [B]GUANRANTEED POTENTIAL[/B]
[B]HUGE EXAMPLE IN THE NBA:[/B]
[B]SHAQ was selected 50 greatest players ever to play the game in 1997[/B].
[B]By 1997. Shaq had
-NO Reg Season MVPs
-NO FMVPs
-NO Scoring titles
-NO Blocks titles
-NO DPOY
-Lost 1995 NBA Finals badly![/B]
Despite pathetic resume, no one ever questioned Shaq's Top 50 players ever spot like they questioned Scottie Pippen's as 'Nique was Excluded.
Everyone who voted Shaq in the Top 50 players Ever in 1997 new one thing.
[B][SIZE="3"]Shaq is a GUARANTEED MULTIPLE TITLES in near future in his peak prime. Its just a matter of "WHEN" & with which franchise.[/SIZE][/B]
[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Laettner was never the GOAT college player. Mentioning him in the same breath as Alcindor is ridiculous. Attempting to equate a "success story" to [b]GOAT level[/b] is only something people with agendas would do, as they're only interested in proving their "point" and thus don't have an issue with taking liberties with the truth.
If you look at the college GOATs, Alcindor, Walton, Russell and Robertson, they were all all-time greats in the NBA as well, with the only note being that Walton's greatness was limited to a couple of seasons due to injury, but during that brief period he was an all-time great. (On an aside, it's also a more compelling argument when a player's dominance extends to multiple levels of play. If you dominate in college and continue to dominate once you get to the pros, being a GOAT candidate on both levels, that's definitely a plus as it means their dominance is transcedent.)[/QUOTE]
+1
[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Laettner was never the GOAT college player. Mentioning him in the same breath as Alcindor is ridiculous. Attempting to equate a "success story" to [b]GOAT level[/b] is only something people with agendas would do, as they're only interested in proving their "point" and thus don't have an issue with taking liberties with the truth.
If you look at the college GOATs, [B]Alcindor, Walton, Russell and Robertson[/B], they were all all-time greats in the NBA as well, with the only note being that Walton's greatness was limited to a couple of seasons due to injury, but during that brief period he was an all-time great. (On an aside, it's also a more compelling argument when a player's dominance extends to multiple levels of play. If you dominate in college and continue to dominate once you get to the pros, being a GOAT candidate on both levels, that's definitely a plus as it means their dominance is transcedent.)[/QUOTE]
That meshes with the limited research I've done. I've been meaning to look into some of the college legends for a while (I spent a little while looking into Mikan and Russell, but nothing in depth...I haven't touched the other guys you mentioned).
Are those four on a tier by themselves? Who fills out the next level of all-time greats?
[QUOTE=fpliii]That meshes with the limited research I've done. I've been meaning to look into some of the college legends for a while (I spent a little while looking into Mikan and Russell, but nothing in depth...I haven't touched the other guys you mentioned).[/QUOTE]
UCLA Lew Alcindor was all over Sports Illustrated. Check out [url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/[/url]
There's actually a really nice search engine in that website. Although the writing has drooped sadly in recent years, Sports Illustrated used to be one of the finest collections of sportswriters in the world.
We used to devour those magazines looking for articles about Lew and the excitement of all of us when he went to the NBA was :eek: :eek: :eek: which totally proved out. What a great career that man had!!
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]Did you deliberately skip the HIGHLIGHTED with BOLD I typed ??
[B]Many here missing the whole point IMO[/B]
Guys.....You Draft someone on [B]GUANRANTEED POTENTIAL[/B]
[B]HUGE EXAMPLE IN THE NBA:[/B]
[B]SHAQ was selected 50 greatest players ever to play the game in 1997[/B].
[B]By 1997. Shaq had
-NO Reg Season MVPs
-NO FMVPs
-NO Scoring titles
-NO Blocks titles
-NO DPOY
-Lost 1995 NBA Finals badly![/B]
Despite pathetic resume, no one ever questioned Shaq's Top 50 players ever spot like they questioned Scottie Pippen's as 'Nique was Excluded.
Everyone who voted Shaq in the Top 50 players Ever in 1997 new one thing.
[B][SIZE="3"]Shaq is a GUARANTEED MULTIPLE TITLES in near future in his peak prime. Its just a matter of "WHEN" & with which franchise.[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]
God shut up
No one.
And I wanted to say Magic, Kareem, or Hakeem. I just couldn't.
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]Did you deliberately skip the HIGHLIGHTED with BOLD I typed ??
[B]Many here missing the whole point IMO[/B]
Guys.....You Draft someone on [B]GUANRANTEED POTENTIAL[/B]
[B]HUGE EXAMPLE IN THE NBA:[/B]
[B]SHAQ was selected 50 greatest players ever to play the game in 1997[/B].
[B]By 1997. Shaq had
-NO Reg Season MVPs
-NO FMVPs
-NO Scoring titles
-NO Blocks titles
-NO DPOY
-Lost 1995 NBA Finals badly![/B]
Despite pathetic resume, no one ever questioned Shaq's Top 50 players ever spot like they questioned Scottie Pippen's as 'Nique was Excluded.
Everyone who voted Shaq in the Top 50 players Ever in 1997 new one thing.
[B][SIZE="3"]Shaq is a GUARANTEED MULTIPLE TITLES in near future in his peak prime. Its just a matter of "WHEN" & with which franchise.[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]
[B][U]
Shaq [/U][/B]
1995 NBA Scoring Champion
1993 Rookie of the Year
1x All NBA 2nd team
4x All NBA 3rd team
1992-1997
Wilt
Kareem
Russell maybe
NOBODY is drafting a perimeter player
over SHAQ or any on the greatest centers of
all time.
A center,great big man is rarer and more dominating and
changes the game and opposing team defense than
a perimeter player.As great as Jordan was
Wilt was even more dominating and a far better offensive nightmare
for the opposing team.They made so many rules to curtail wilt,shaq dominance than anything else.Adding zone defense,widening the lane,off and def 3 sec,5 sec back to the basket,intentional fouling,doubles on the off ball fronting,Adding the 3 pt line,Having to shoot free throws from behind the line,no 3 for 2s,Changing the way shots can be blocked.
Wilt avg 50,25,2,and however many blocks,at 60+% fg FOR A SEASON.
He avg 35,25 his first 7 years,he got 30000 pts in only 499
games about 7 seasons,Shaq was avg 35,12,3,2 in the finals
Kareem avg 20,9 for 20 SEASONS,Russell avg 20 rebounds for HIS CAREER
The sheer dominance of any of these centers and the problems and struggles they created for the opposing team makes them num 1 picks over ANY perimeter player.
[QUOTE=Doctor Rivers]God shut up[/QUOTE]
stop loosing 27 pts lead before telling others to STFU !!!
f*****g L****r. :lol :lol
[QUOTE=Lebron23][B][U]
Shaq [/U][/B]
1995 NBA Scoring Champion
1993 Rookie of the Year
1x All NBA 2nd team
4x All NBA 3rd team
1992-1997[/QUOTE]
You right about 1995 scoring title. for some reason, I get confused with that 1994 scoring title Shaq lost to D'rob because of that 70+ pt game D'Rob.
still
Barkley had 1 season MVP.
Hakeem had 2 DPOY + 2 FMVPs + 1 MVP.
Shaq half a$$ed his whole career. If he tried, he could've easily landed 2-3 DPOY titles if Mourning can have 2 DPOY titles.
Still people knew. Shaq was once in a life time GOAT talent at Center position.
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]UCLA Lew Alcindor was all over Sports Illustrated. Check out [url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/[/url]
There's actually a really nice search engine in that website. Although the writing has drooped sadly in recent years, Sports Illustrated used to be one of the finest collections of sportswriters in the world.
We used to devour those magazines looking for articles about Lew and the excitement of all of us when he went to the NBA was :eek: :eek: :eek: which totally proved out. What a great career that man had!![/QUOTE]
Good stuff! I'm too busy looking at covers right now to get to the articles though, these are some great photos. I'm looking forward to reading some articles later, thanks for the link.
Two questions -- when do you think SI was at its best, and when do you think it fell off as a legitimate sports periodical?
[QUOTE=DMV2]It would be a crazy pick in the 80's, or 90's. It was always common to go with a potentially great Big man over a potentially great perimeter player.
Things have changed over the past 10 years or so, and all because of Jordan. [B]He made this league a perimeter superstar league[/B]. Nowadays, you have perimeter players hyped as much, or more than big's. In '03 alone, we got LeBron, Wade and Melo. Recent years, we got Durant, Rose and Wall.[/QUOTE]
Not him. Stern did. Stern wanted there to be next Jordans coming into the league.