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-   -   Steph Curry is the GOAT (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=472111)

ImKobe 09-13-2019 09:01 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronbron23
As far as careers it won't even be close Steph is already 31 and will begin his decline soon. Offensively mj's destroys curry at the same age up until this point.

Even if you want to look at Steph's best season it's still doesn't compare to mj when you factor in playoffs and finals. Regular season yes Curry's 2016 was up there with mj.

Curry 2015 regular season
30.1 pts/ 6.7 ass/ 45% 3pt / 56% 2pt

Mj 1990 regular season
31.5% pts/ 5.5 ass/ 31% 3pt/ 53% 2 pt

I won't even harp on the easier scoring era and mj having to score in iso more. If u just look at there regular seasons offensively Steph was a little better.

The post season and finals which are tougher scoring conditions is a different story.

Curry 2016 playoffs
25.1/5.2 ass/40% 3pt/48% 2 pt

Mj 1991 playoffs
31.1/8.4 ass/39% 3 pt/ 53% 2 pt

So in the playoffs where teams and defences are better and refs let players play more you can see that Steph gets worse while mj gets better. In the finals there's even a bigger disparity as curry continues to get worse while mj gets even better.

Curry 2016 finals
22.6/3.7ass/40% 3pt/ 40% 2pt

Mj 1991 finals
31.2 pts/11.4 ass/ 50% 3 pt/59% 2pt

Again it's not close mj crushes Steph. So if you guys want to clarify and just compare regular season offensive impact for that one year than that's fair but as far as a whole season goes which includes post season, mj is on another level.


So you take Steph's worst Finals series and compare it to MJ's best to make a point?

Steph got injured early in the 2016 Playoffs (twice, I might add), so his Playoff averages already tank because he had to leave early in his first two games and the injury was significant enough that he played a total of 38 minutes in the first 8 Playoff games. Not only are the injuries a factor, but the first 3 games of the Finals were all blowouts, where he either played a low amount of minutes or barely shot the basketball due to the games being decided in the first half. As bad as his series was overall, he still broke the Finals 3-Point record while shooting 40% from three at 11.4 attempts per game. His team was up 3 - 1 with him hobbling and then his best teammate in that series gets suspended for a closeout game at home, where his starting Center suffers a series-ending injury. Not only that, but in the next game Iguodala gets injured and is left hobbling for the rest of the series as well. A healthy, non-suspended Warriors squad closes the series out in 5 games and we don't have this stupid discussion.

Bronbron23 09-13-2019 09:07 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ImKobe
So you take Steph's worst Finals series and compare it to MJ's best to make a point?

Steph got injured early in the 2016 Playoffs (twice, I might add), so his Playoff averages already tank because he had to leave early in his first two games and the injury was significant enough that he played a total of 38 minutes in the first 8 Playoff games. Not only are the injuries a factor, but the first 3 games of the Finals were all blowouts, where he either played a low amount of minutes or barely shot the basketball due to the games being decided in the first half. As bad as his series was overall, he still broke the Finals 3-Point record while shooting 40% from three at 11.4 attempts per game. His team was up 3 - 1 with him hobbling and then his best teammate in that series gets suspended for a closeout game at home, where his starting Center suffers a series-ending injury. Not only that, but in the next game Iguodala gets injured and is left hobbling for the rest of the series as well. A healthy, non-suspended Warriors squad closes the series out in 5 games and we don't have this stupid discussion.

I used 16 because I was arguing with Manny and that's the season he used. It doesn't matter what season u use though none of the are as good as mj's best

ImKobe 09-13-2019 09:19 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronbron23
I used 16 because I was arguing with Manny and that's the season he used. It doesn't matter what season u use though none of the are as good as mj's best


OP is a retard for comparing Curry to MJ anyways, Steph's really underrated as far as all-time talks go though, his RS/Playoff numbers from 2017-19 are on par with almost any all-time great and he proved just in these Finals that he could produce at the highest level with half of his team injured.

Turbo Slayer 09-13-2019 09:25 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ImKobe
OP is a retard for comparing Curry to MJ anyways, Steph's really underrated as far as all-time talks go though, his RS/Playoff numbers from 2017-19 are on par with almost any all-time great and he proved just in these Finals that he could produce at the highest level with half of his team injured.

u just got trolled :lol didnt u realize that this is a troll thread? :roll:

ImKobe 09-13-2019 09:28 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Slayer
u just got trolled :lol didnt u realize that this is a troll thread? :roll:


Nah. You were clearly not trolling in the OP but got embarrassed so badly that now you cower behind the lamest excuse online.

If you feel like Curry's the GOAT, make your case and don't let people convince you otherwise. He's arguably the GOAT of his era so don't feel ashamed about it.

Bronbron23 09-13-2019 09:51 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ImKobe
OP is a retard for comparing Curry to MJ anyways, Steph's really underrated as far as all-time talks go though, his RS/Playoff numbers from 2017-19 are on par with almost any all-time great and he proved just in these Finals that he could produce at the highest level with half of his team injured.

Yes his 17-19 was very good and on par with alot of atg players but not all. Mj had several better. Magics 86-87 was also better. Lebron, Shaq and Kareem also had better seasons.

And Steph wasn't missing half his team. Klay only missed a game. Kd being out hurt but he was just icing on the cake anyway. They were still a great team without him.

Steph is amazing. He's the best shooter ever and will go down a top 20 player. He's far from the goat is all I'm saying.

Stephonit 09-14-2019 03:01 AM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronbron23
Yes his 17-19 was very good and on par with alot of atg players but not all. Mj had several better. Magics 86-87 was also better. Lebron, Shaq and Kareem also had better seasons.

And Steph wasn't missing half his team. Klay only missed a game. Kd being out hurt but he was just icing on the cake anyway. They were still a great team without him.

Steph is amazing. He's the best shooter ever and will go down a top 20 player. He's far from the goat is all I'm saying.


Magic's 1987 wasn't better than Curry's 2017—and that was with idiotic commentators proclaiming 2017 to be a "down year" for Curry for the entire first half of it.

SouBeachTalents 09-14-2019 03:10 AM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonit
Magic's 1987 wasn't better than Curry's 2017—and that was with idiotic commentators proclaiming 2017 to be a "down year" for Curry for the entire first half of it.

Don't you legit believe Curry's the GOAT?

ImKobe 09-14-2019 03:31 AM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronbron23
Yes his 17-19 was very good and on par with alot of atg players but not all. Mj had several better. Magics 86-87 was also better. Lebron, Shaq and Kareem also had better seasons.

And Steph wasn't missing half his team. Klay only missed a game. Kd being out hurt but he was just icing on the cake anyway. They were still a great team without him.

Steph is amazing. He's the best shooter ever and will go down a top 20 player. He's far from the goat is all I'm saying.


He had his greatest individual Finals/Playoff game of his career with KD, Klay, Looney all injured. Raptors ran 2-3 guys at him on every possession and he still dropped 47/8/7.

Klay, Looney, Cousins, Iguodala were all playing hurt and sustained major injuries either in the Finals or leading up to it. Iggy shouldn't have even played in his condition, Looney was in terrible pain and Thompson injured and went out early in two of the 6 games, including missing one completely. Durant obviously only played like 12 minutes in that series as well.

That's 5 guys dealing with serious injuries. Steph still made it a close series but got little to no respect after it while people were ready to give Lebron Finals MVP in 2015 for taking 32 shots a game to score his 35 inefficient points lol.

Stephonit 09-14-2019 05:43 AM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents
Don't you legit believe Curry's the GOAT?


What I know is that Curry's career isn't over yet. He has a claim to one of the best if not the best regular seasons ever. He has a claim to one of the best if not the best playoffs ever. He was on a team that was historically great by certain measures—and that was before another all-time great teamed up with him. Curry plays in the modern era. He's been playing in the tougher conference. I'm more impressed with Curry than LeBron who many say they believe is the best player they've ever seen. Curry isn't as reliant as other greats on getting a favorable whistle. Curry changed the game.

Bronbron23 09-14-2019 11:41 AM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ImKobe
He had his greatest individual Finals/Playoff game of his career with KD, Klay, Looney all injured. Raptors ran 2-3 guys at him on every possession and he still dropped 47/8/7.

Klay, Looney, Cousins, Iguodala were all playing hurt and sustained major injuries either in the Finals or leading up to it. Iggy shouldn't have even played in his condition, Looney was in terrible pain and Thompson injured and went out early in two of the 6 games, including missing one completely. Durant obviously only played like 12 minutes in that series as well.

That's 5 guys dealing with serious injuries. Steph still made it a close series but got little to no respect after it while people were ready to give Lebron Finals MVP in 2015 for taking 32 shots a game to score his 35 inefficient points lol.

It's the end of the year alot if teams have guys that are banged up. Mj won a finals with a hobbled Scottie pip and no other help. Look what magic did as a rookie when Kareem went down. Yes curry was amazing in the game you speak of but it's one game. Hes never had a whole season as good as mj's. He just hasn't. Mj's numbers crush Steph's in the post season. Regular season sure but not playoffs and especially not the finals.

And yes LeBron wasnt very good in 15. I'm probably one of the few LeBron fans to acknowledge that. He scored alot but he was inefficient and couldn't hit a wide open mid-range to save his life. I'm not sure what that has to do with Steph not being the goat though

Bronbron23 09-14-2019 11:54 AM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonit
What I know is that Curry's career isn't over yet. He has a claim to one of the best if not the best regular seasons ever. He has a claim to one of the best if not the best playoffs ever. He was on a team that was historically great by certain measures—and that was before another all-time great teamed up with him. Curry plays in the modern era. He's been playing in the tougher conference. I'm more impressed with Curry than LeBron who many say they believe is the best player they've ever seen. Curry isn't as reliant as other greats on getting a favorable whistle. Curry changed the game.

See this is what I mean. Steph fans just make up shit when it come to his career. I'll give u the regular season claim. It's a fair one. He dosnt have a claim to one of the best playoffs ever. Mj's, Kareems, magic LeBron and Shaq all had better.

The pre kd warriors we're not historically great. The only had one chip and it was against a heavily depleted Cavs team that still won 2 games and beat them with the same squad the following year when fully healthy. Yeah they had the greatest regular season ever but they didn't win and like pip said it don't mean a thing without the ring.

Curry didn't change the game. Teams shoot more threes now because of Morey and the rockets. They came up with the analytics of why it makes sense and they implemented it first and other teams like the warriors followed. That's a fact. So how did Steph change the game exactly? He didnt.

Stephonit 09-14-2019 12:46 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronbron23
See this is what I mean. Steph fans just make up shit when it come to his career. I'll give u the regular season claim. It's a fair one. He dosnt have a claim to one of the best playoffs ever. Mj's, Kareems, magic LeBron and Shaq all had better.


I disagreed above with Magic having had a better year and I'll disagree again now.

One of these is Curry 2017, one is Larry Bird 1986, and the other one is Magic Johnson 1987:

Code:

                                                                                                     
Rk    MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P  3P%  2P  2PA  2P% eFG%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB  AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    42.8 9.5 18.4 .517 1.3 .411 8.2 15.3 .538 .551 5.6 6.1 .927 1.9 7.4 9.3  8.2 2.1 0.6 2.6 3.1 25.9
2    35.4 8.9 18.4 .484 4.2 .419 4.6  8.2 .564 .599 6.1 6.7 .904 1.3 4.9 6.2  6.7 2.0 0.2 3.4 2.2 28.1
3    37.0 8.1 15.1 .539 0.1 .200 8.0 14.5 .552 .542 5.4 6.6 .831 1.6 6.2 7.7 12.2 1.7 0.4 2.8 2.1 21.8


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 9/14/2019.

Code:

                                                                                                     
Rk    PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS  WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP
1    23.9 .615 .169 .329  5.3 18.0 12.1 28.1  2.3  0.8 11.0 23.3 2.7 1.5 4.2  .263  6.8  3.5 10.3  2.4
2    27.1 .659 .551 .365  4.2 14.1  9.5 29.5  2.7  0.5 13.8 30.0 2.3 1.1 3.4  .272  9.1  1.7 10.8  2.0
3    26.2 .607 .037 .435  5.2 17.0 11.7 46.1  2.2  0.6 13.6 23.1 2.6 1.1 3.7  .265  6.7  3.1  9.7  2.0


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 9/14/2019.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronbron23
The pre kd warriors we're not historically great. The only had one chip and it was against a heavily depleted Cavs team that still won 2 games and beat them with the same squad the following year when fully healthy. Yeah they had the greatest regular season ever but they didn't win and like pip said it don't mean a thing without the ring.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-the-warriors/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ording-to-elo/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronbron23
Curry didn't change the game. Teams shoot more threes now because of Morey and the rockets. They came up with the analytics of why it makes sense and they implemented it first and other teams like the warriors followed. That's a fact. So how did Steph change the game exactly? He didnt.


Morey had theories he borrowed from D'Antoni who could have borrowed them from Don Nelson. Unproven theories. What Curry did was show what could happen when they were applied to reality by someone capable of doing so.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...he-revolution/

With such a commanding showing Curry gave 3-point shooting and jumpshooting teams the legitimacy they previously lacked. The Warriors' success allowed Morey to go all in and gave D'Antoni's career which had been consigned to oblivion a new lease on life.

3-point shooting, the rise of defensive switching, and the fall in importance of the traditional big man are all trends that have followed in Curry's wake.

juju151111 09-14-2019 01:27 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonit
I disagreed above with Magic having had a better year and I'll disagree again now.

One of these is Curry 2017, one is Larry Bird 1986, and the other one is Magic Johnson 1987:

Code:

                                                                                                     
Rk    MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P  3P%  2P  2PA  2P% eFG%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB  AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    42.8 9.5 18.4 .517 1.3 .411 8.2 15.3 .538 .551 5.6 6.1 .927 1.9 7.4 9.3  8.2 2.1 0.6 2.6 3.1 25.9
2    35.4 8.9 18.4 .484 4.2 .419 4.6  8.2 .564 .599 6.1 6.7 .904 1.3 4.9 6.2  6.7 2.0 0.2 3.4 2.2 28.1
3    37.0 8.1 15.1 .539 0.1 .200 8.0 14.5 .552 .542 5.4 6.6 .831 1.6 6.2 7.7 12.2 1.7 0.4 2.8 2.1 21.8


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 9/14/2019.

Code:

                                                                                                     
Rk    PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS  WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP
1    23.9 .615 .169 .329  5.3 18.0 12.1 28.1  2.3  0.8 11.0 23.3 2.7 1.5 4.2  .263  6.8  3.5 10.3  2.4
2    27.1 .659 .551 .365  4.2 14.1  9.5 29.5  2.7  0.5 13.8 30.0 2.3 1.1 3.4  .272  9.1  1.7 10.8  2.0
3    26.2 .607 .037 .435  5.2 17.0 11.7 46.1  2.2  0.6 13.6 23.1 2.6 1.1 3.7  .265  6.7  3.1  9.7  2.0


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 9/14/2019.



https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-the-warriors/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ording-to-elo/



Morey had theories he borrowed from D'Antoni who could have borrowed them from Don Nelson. Unproven theories. What Curry did was show what could happen when they were applied to reality by someone capable of doing so.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...he-revolution/

With such a commanding showing Curry gave 3-point shooting and jumpshooting teams the legitimacy they previously lacked. The Warriors' success allowed Morey to go all in and gave D'Antoni's career which had been consigned to oblivion a new lease on life.

3-point shooting, the rise of defensive switching, and the fall in importance of the traditional big man are all trends that have followed in Curry's wake.

Post the playoffs for those years too.

juju151111 09-14-2019 01:30 PM

Re: Steph Curry is the GOAT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny98
Nope 2016 Curry is better than any MJ or Wade season. first and only unanimous MVP GOAT shit and his playoff run in 2017 is as good or better than any playoff run ever

28/6/7 off 66% TS 16-1 record when has MJ ever had a playoff run that dominant

Why don't you take the whole year. 91Mj with Playoffs> Curry in 2016
Stop doing half things to try to make Curry look good.


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