Videos 6 and 7 of my planned 20 on forgotten teams. __enver nuggets and 80s Mavs.

Started a while back. covered the following teams so far:


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzHmZEDpiTg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzHmZEDpiTg[/URL]

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Run TMC Warriors who in retrospect are not forgotten but not as well known as id like.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhAnQTM9Kmg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhAnQTM9Kmg[/URL]
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Drexlers Blazers



80s Bucks:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5rUaPrgn8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5rUaPrgn8[/URL]



^
Third most wins of the "golden era" and nobody gives a shit because they didnt make the finals.



Late 80s Sonics:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwZTS9t-zw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwZTS9t-zw[/URL]




Mark Price era Cavs:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaPX7dWpV-I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaPX7dWpV-I[/URL]






So far they have all been 80s/early 90s teams...and that will continue this time but not for all 20. I intend to cover at least 2 early 2000s teams and a couple from the 70s. But for now....


The Enver Nuggets of the late 80s/early 90s. So called because they gave up 118, 113, 116, 113, and 131 ppg over 5 years. Last of those years they gave up 162ppg in the preseason. Yes...162....with the worst defensive effort in pro basketball history....

In the 1990 preseason the Nuggets allowed the Hawks to score...one hundred...and ninety four...points.

1
9
4

In regulation. Gave up 112 in the second half.

And followed it up by giving up 186 to the Suns!

One game they gave up 173 to the Celtics in that preseason. Larry Bird...this is 1990 Larry Bird...past his prime....had 12 points, 19 rebounds, and 12 assists in 19 minutes. And they played them again in 5 days..Bird had 21/15/13 in one half.

They gave up 154 points per game over their first 7 in the regular season including 160+ 3 times with a high of 173.


Now this footage is far from good but I had so many requests on them I had to put something together. And instead of a gang of passable quality old CBS slow motions clips of dunks I wanted to show how they actually played. If you are looking for special effects and brooding movie soundtracks ive never been who you go to. Just...about the basketball.

So...

Covers roughly 87 to 92. See a tad of Alex English but he wasnt as featured in the offenses I mean to show as he was in his prime. A prime which will be covered later this week on a video on the Nuggets with him, Kiki, Dan Issel, and a bit of David Thompson and Bobby Jones. This isnt on the good Nugget teams. Just one I find interesting.

Notice their coach and how in practice they actually work on fast breaks and quick strike plays. The secondary break and shooters trailing. Its one aspect of that team I can respect. You dont need to not play defense to have a well coached transition offense.


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF0-JmUNQs0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF0-JmUNQs0[/URL]


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Enver in all its pixelated glory. Kinda mad I couldnt find a clip of Michael Adams double behind the back passes....he did it all the time on the Bullets and a bit on the Nuggets too. Im sure someone will turn one up. Its nice...even though it was often a travel.






Next....the 80s Mavs...or as im gonna call them...the 80s Thunder if Ibaka starts using coke, Durant turns into an asshole, and they suffer injury for 4-5 years.

Aguirre as you will see was something like a beast in the paint. I never just repped him...but he could score. Huge hands...great fakes...body control. He would be even better today I believe with all the phantom calls.


Rolando Blackman who ill call their Harden even though he started. Had some great years. Played hard. shot like 55% at one point. Clutch. Could create his own shot...pass...handle the ball.

Derek Harper...somewhere between Rondo and Deron Williams while not as good as either. We once had a topic on if he would be a better franchise player than Allen Iverson. I found that funny....but he was solid. Defense...passing...could shoot and attack.

Added to that...Sam Perkins, Roy Tarpley in all his coked up fury, and young Detlef.

Talent out the ass. Sam and Roy would probably both be all stars in this league where Roy Hibbert makes it for 13/9. Roy was putting up 14/12 and 17/13 not even starting the whole time in a couple seasons. He put up 18/13 over a 17 game playoff run when they took the Showtime Lakers to 7 games the year they won Magics 5th ring.

They had somewhere in the area of 5 all star quality players today(though I doubt Harper ever makes it). There were talks of them taking the place of the Lakers/Celtics.

Won like 55-56 games one year. Gave the Lakers a run in another. But it fell apart. Watch close Thunder fans....no title is won till you win it:


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvb8ZLbjLGs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvb8ZLbjLGs[/URL]



Luckily for them Kevin Durant doesnt seem to be generally disliked and no key players are strung out on anything.





Id like to see some teams today put in some of the Nuggets open court offense and maybe settle into halfcourt games when it doesnt work. Too many teams walk it up for no reason.

Mavs....id love to see them in todays league. They were built to prosper in this no centers and no touching the guards league. Derek Harper would foul out in 20 minutes if he played his Knicks defense though.

Awesome... will take a look after work :rockon:

Good thread. Very interesting stuff.

Can't wait to check out all the vids. Thanks, and good work!

Those enver Nuggets would be the best team in the East today!

Thanks for the vids, much appreciated. However,
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]
Derek Harper...somewhere between Rondo and Deron Williams while not as good as either. [/QUOTE]
:coleman:
For a guy who played alongside 2 guys who took 40 shots per game between them every night, he did rather well. Mavs were thought to have a backcourt on pair with that of the Lakers for a reason.

I agree wholeheartedly on what you said about the Bucks, probably the most underrated team ever.

I respect Harpers game but ill forward you to an argument I had 4 years ago....


[QUOTE]
And sure Harper had a role thats hard to say for sure was less important than the teams two all stars but thats just basketball. One thing is for sure....Harper had little case to be listed as the best player on any team that ever did anything. The only years of his career where he was arguably the best his teams won 28, 22, and 11 games. Yes...11. The only season he was without question the best player on a team(Blackman was gone)...his team went 11 and 71.

People like to mention winning role players and compare them to less winning superstars but it just doesnt work here. Not only did Harper not win anything AI didnt when he was a supporting player...when he was the best player he had the second worst record in NBA history. And the next year? They went 2 and 27 before he was traded to the Knicks. And added to that he shot 42 and 38% those two years. Maybe being efficient was more a product of others than his own ability or approach to the game.

Whatever anyone thinks of AI its hard to do the usual "___ would win more than you could with Iverson" when he in fact went nowhere and won nothing AI didnt and led the worst teams since the ABA merger when he didnt have better players than him on the team.

Im all for propping up somewhat obscure oldschool players who dont get the respect they deserve....but AI is a first ballot hall of famer. A living legend. 4 time scoring champ behind only Wilt and Jordan per game, MVP, and several time steals leader who is all over the record books and led a team to the finals. If hes gotta be compared to a guard who was never even an all star and put behind him as a pick to win...at least have the other guy be someone who actually won something and didnt lead the worst teams ever while shooting worse than AI in the brief time he was in AIs position. Derek Harper was a very very slight notch up from Kenny Smith.

Terrell Brandon, Fat Lever, and Alvin Robertson types justify this question more.
[/QUOTE]


Him vs AI stained him for all time to me.

[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60782"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60782[/URL]

Yeah I understand your point. I tend to forget just how bad they were by then.

Nice idea bro...Thx...

Btw, drop me an email if you wish (you have it on my homepage), I could perhaps provide some footage for your future vids.

:applause: nice

Love some of those teams, some really underrated ones like the 80s Bucks

Aguirre had mitts :eek: I haven't seen someone palm the ball like that other than MJ and a few other elite players. A retro issue of Slam from like 6 years ago had an article about Tarpley and those Mavs teams. Try and find it if you're interested.

That Nuggz mix made Michael Adams look like a star, and I really never saw anything from him other than my trading cards.

I'm all for more highlights of Fat Lever getting onto youtube. Dude was a baller.

KBlaze, thank you very much for your hard work. It is greatly appreciated. If i was rich with money to spare I would give you some.

[quote=ProfessorMurder][B]Aguirre had mitts :eek: I haven't seen someone palm the ball like that other than MJ and a few other elite players.[/B] A retro issue of Slam from like 6 years ago had an article about Tarpley and those Mavs teams. Try and find it if you're interested.

That Nuggz mix made Michael Adams look like a star, and I really never saw anything from him other than my trading cards.

I'm all for more highlights of Fat Lever getting onto youtube. Dude was a baller.[/quote]


Most of what I saw of him was on the Pistons. He wasnt doing his usual numbers but he was 29 and coming off one of his best seasons so its not like he was washed up....

I thought the Pistons got the better end of the deal when they traded Dantley for him because he wasnt a ball stopper....but he was selfish and not as much of a professional as its said Adrian was. But when they just posted him up or cleared it out for him with Isiah out of the game he did some nasty things. Mean mean pump fakes because he didnt have much elevation on his jumper and he could palm the ball till the last second and pull it back. Had guys on pogo sticks.

I didnt care for him but I clearly remember trying to mimic some of his one handed moves as a kid with my ball(that I cherished because george gervin took a jumper with it in 86....not that thats related).

He had a lot of moves you dont really see anymore. Not that people cant do them...they just dont. Helps that he was like 6'5'' but a natural in the post....those guys dont come along often.

I guess its fair to call him underrated but id more say unknown. So many high scoring swingmen for that time most of them get ignored. Dantley, Aguirre, English, Bird, Nique, Mullin, Drexler, Jordan, Kiki, Bernard, and even guys like Purvis Short, Otis Birdsong, Dale Ellis, and on and on and on.

Jordan outshined most of them too much for them to be remembered.

Kinda like how I bet Paul Pierce would have been forgotten if they never got KG and Ray. Gotta have something to stand out. 27 a game when 10 guys do it and win more doesnt do it.

I was putting together a thing on the early 2000 Mavs earlier and noticed Juwon Howard being a much bigger part of their offense than I remembered. Then I thought about it...he was in his prime. Having since checked he was only 27. Put up 18 a game on the Mavs. They kinda had a big 4 briefly......

Im thinking them, the Francis/Cato/Mobley/Norris Rockets, and maybe the Lamar/Miles/Qrich clippers up next.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I was putting together a thing on the early 2000 Mavs earlier and noticed Juwon Howard being a much bigger part of their offense than I remembered. Then I thought about it...he was in his prime. Having since checked he was only 27. Put up 18 a game on the Mavs. They kinda had a big 4 briefly......

Im thinking them, the Francis/Cato/Mobley/Norris Rockets, and maybe the Lamar/Miles/Qrich clippers up next.[/QUOTE]

Ooh, Odom/Miles/Richardson please. I had high hopes for D-Miles.