Now that there is something to talk about ! :bowdown:
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Now that there is something to talk about ! :bowdown:
I was wondering about that too. I just kinda moved over to the main MLB thread in OT.
I tried finding it the other day with no luck.
It was probably a casualty of how shitty these boards run during the playoffs. Reps, avatars and big threads all get removed. You'd think that wouldn't be necessary. I guess we're just not clicking on enough ads. :ohwell:
So with the old thread dead we can all just forget I proclaimed our playoff hopes dead a month ago right?
This season is officially ridiculous. Totally grateful that my flex pack was relatively backloaded with two games having been this week. Can't wait for the Canada Day game with us in the thick of it and Reyes back.
Season's still over.
The 'comeback' was all fools gold.
They were simply too far behind already.
[QUOTE=Grey Dawn]Season's still over.
The 'comeback' was all fools gold.
They were simply too far behind already.[/QUOTE]
I agree. The win streak was nice but the hole was huge. I still wouldn't bet any money on the playoffs. They really needed to go better than 5-5 in the games vs the East.
I think they can make it interesting, still so many factors but if they get hot again they can still make it.
When they were really down my thinking was that they would have to get to 5 games back by the all-star game to have a shot. I think they have that shot now.
But even before the season started I didn't think they would make the playoffs. I thought this year would be about competing, next year would be about playoffs. The starting pitching is still nowhere near good enough.
[QUOTE]The starting pitching is still nowhere near good enough.[/QUOTE]
Yep.
I was really expecting Dickey and Johnson to be a solid top 2 in the rotation. Not as good as they were in the NL obviously but still solid #2 type pitchers. They haven't been. Morrow was awful when healthy. Buehrle is well, Buerhle. When his command is off even a tiny bit, he'll get drilled. Rogers has been fantastic so far though.
I figured the defense would be bad going into this season with Melky in LF and the downgrade from Escobar to Reyes (defensively). But the starting pitching was supposed to be better.
[QUOTE=Qwyjibo]Yep.
I was really expecting Dickey and Johnson to be a solid top 2 in the rotation. Not as good as they were in the NL obviously but still solid #2 type pitchers. They haven't been. Morrow was awful when healthy. Buehrle is well, Buerhle. When his command is off even a tiny bit, he'll get drilled. Rogers has been fantastic so far though.
I figured the defense would be bad going into this season with Melky in LF and the downgrade from Escobar to Reyes (defensively). But the starting pitching was supposed to be better.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
I really expected Johnson to have a great year (contract year). And I was hoping Ricky would bounce back.
My other beef is second base. Kelly Johnson (or Aaron Hill) would look pretty good now.
[QUOTE=bluerap]Agreed.
I really expected Johnson to have a great year (contract year). And I was hoping Ricky would bounce back.
My other beef is second base. Kelly Johnson (or Aaron Hill) would look pretty good now.[/QUOTE]
Kelly Johnson is f'n terrible.
Re-stickied for your enjoyment!
Dickey getting smacked around by the Twins. There's the low-point for me so far in this miserable season.
Already looking at 2014.
On the trade front, I haven't read anything but just speculating here. I could see the Jays taking a flier on Jemile Weeks of the Oakland A's.
Not sure what the A's would be looking for in return. But he went from the future at second base to an afterthought. A's called up Grant Green recently to team up with Sogard at second base, so it's not like their second base is solid, but if Green sticks, I could see them moving Weeks. I would assume it wouldn't be much that the A's would be asking. Maybe with Cecil's all star nod, they can deal him. Now Jemile Weeks can come up and totally sh!t the bed, but I think it's worth a shot. Or maybe I'm underselling Cecil's value. Cecil won't be a FA until 2017 and Weeks won't be until 2018...
I sometimes hate this team so much. I will never abandon the Jays but goddamn...
- Another loss to a good team they are chasing marred by tons of mistakes.
- Bickford might not be signing. One of their later tough sign hopefuls might not either.
- Lawrie shits the bed in his minor league game.
what happened with Lawrie?
Just did a search and came up with nothing.
[QUOTE=bluerap]what happened with Lawrie?
Just did a search and came up with nothing.[/QUOTE]
0-4 with 4 strikeouts (and a walk) today in a AAA game. Only one game but still adds to a shitty day.
Draft disaster somewhat averted. No Bickford but Brentz and Tellez get signed. Whoever is advising high school kids to turn down almost $3 million (assuming slot value) is a moron.
I don't mind that Bickford passed. Kind of glad about it (next year's draft is supposedly much stronger). However, not signing Beede in the last year of the old CBA could prove costly. He is projected to be a Top 5 pick, and in most mock drafts, a top 3 pick.
Brentz and Tellez were seen as tough signs, and them signing really saved the draft...
Unless there is an extension I don't see the point.
I heard one of the commentators saying that Lawrie to second was to boost his trade value. (Why else play him at 2B and Cesar at 3B)
[QUOTE=bluerap]Unless there is an extension I don't see the point.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. And even then, do you really want to extend a 30-year old Matt Garza?
I really hope the Jays don't get desperate and go after rental players for this season. The playoffs are a pipe dream right now, IMO.
Exactly what I said, I see no point in that trade.
If I am the Jays, I'm a big time seller at this point. Problem is, who are you gonna sell off?
Jays can't trade Dickey, won't get anything close to what they paid for him.
Josh Johnson won't fetch much, plus I think Josh Johnson will have a decision to make next year. Either accept the $12 million to rebuild his value, or if someone actually offers him a lot. He goes via FA and gets Toronto a first round pick.
Buerhle, owed $19 million next year and the year after, good luck moving him.
I'd be looking to move Janssen, Oliver, Cecil and Delabar if they fetch us any value. I think if you package them, you may be able to buy low on a player (like Rasmus).
Personally, I would hate to go the Marlins way, but would it be such a bad idea to start thinking of trading Jose Bautista, Jose Reyes and Edwin Encarnacion? I know this is a team that was built with a 3 year window in mind; but this ballclub doesn't seem like it's that close...
Before we talk blowing the whole damn team up, I recommend headinv over to Grantland and reading the article on the Bosox retool for this year after a disappointing 2011 & 2012. Basically they made wise acquisitions and jetisoned the shyte contracts while keeping the legit core together.
We should be a mixture of buying and selling and certainly shouldn't just throw the next two seasons.
[QUOTE=DJMason]Before we talk blowing the whole damn team up, I recommend headinv over to Grantland and reading the article on the Bosox retool for this year after a disappointing 2011 & 2012. Basically they made wise acquisitions and jetisoned the shyte contracts while keeping the legit core together.
We should be a mixture of buying and selling and certainly shouldn't just throw the next two seasons.[/QUOTE]
I think age is a factor as well. My question would be, what is our legit core? Bautista, Reyes, Edwin and perhaps Rasmus? I would say Lawrie is too, but this is his second straight down year. That still leaves us with catcher, second base, first base/DH and LF (Melky).
Even if we fix our hitting somewhat, starting pitching is the real problem. We have invested heavily in Dickey and Buehrle. I would love to get rid of Buehrle, just don't know who will take that contract off our hands and with that, he will be out there every 5 days. Once again, Josh Johnson will have a decision to make, but eventually, I do think some NL team will pay him. Then you have Ricky Romero (who had his 4th straight quality start today) and Brandon Morrow who have their spot penciled in. Also Happ, Hutchison, Rogers, Drabek etc all battling for the fifth spot. Pretty much what I'm trying to get at is that we're going to go into next season with pretty much the same team.
I think AA had a great opportunity in the off season two years ago. Darvish + Fielder. That should have been the target. Even if they didn't get Fielder, cause I thought his contract was too much, Darvish should have been a must. All it would have cost us was money, no prospects, no draft picks...
What is the problem with keeping this team together and adding more to it? Do we know that payroll is an issue or something?
As a more casual fan then some on here admittedly, I don't want to yet again sell off. Baseball has it figured out that's for sure. Get fans to believe in hope.....obsessed with 'what ifs' from the farm system. All of a sudden you're the Pirates and Royals and 20 years go by with nothing to show for it.
The Bosox core isn't exactly young either, and Pedroia is an injury waiting to happen.
IMO you keep Dickey, both Jose's, Edwin & Lind as your core with Cecil & Delebar as my only almost untouchable bullpen arms and Rasmus being a fringe core piece with Gose regressing and my uncertainty as to what you'd even get for him.
There is no reason that with a few tweaks similar to what Boston did this year and the lack of epically bad early-season baseball thatbwe can't right this ship in 2014.
There is no need to blow it up. The goal will be to contend for 2014 and 2015 with this core.
The only players I'd look to move are Johnson (obviously), Janssen, Oliver, Lind and see if you can sell high on a guy in AAA like Pillar. I'd move Gose too but his value is probably shit after how awful he's been this year. Oh and obviously look to move Buehrle too but good luck doing that unless you're picking up most of his contract.
[QUOTE=Dr.Funk]
[QUOTE=RapsFan]What is the problem with keeping this team together and adding more to it? Do we know that payroll is an issue or something?
[/QUOTE]
I don't know if there's anyone in FA besides maybe Cano, Choo, Pence & McCann that would help the Jays. And all of them will command major $$. Not sure the Jays will be spending anything more than they did this past year.
Also, I'm not buying Lind, I absolutely sell high on him if possible. He's reverted back to his old ways after a hot stretch...
take it easy on lind. you can't be hot for the entire year, we should see how he does in the second half. that being said, no one is untouchable for the right deal.
the main issue is obviously rotation. I'm just not sure how to improve there as our farm system is already gutted.
Watching the 20th anniversary of the 93 world series and damn imagine if we would have pulled the trigger on the Randy Johnson deal.
Anyone wish we could reverse the Marlins deal?
I'm not even gonna ask about the Mets Deal...:facepalm
[QUOTE=bluerap]Anyone wish we could reverse the Marlins deal?
I'm not even gonna ask about the Mets Deal...:facepalm[/QUOTE]
It depends on what else would have been avaiable.
I was glad they got Reyes. I was glad they got Johnson. I realized that Buehrle was more of a "you guys have to take his contract to make this deal work". Johnson has clearly bombed and that's the part of the deal that has backfired. I don't care too much about Nicolino or Marisnick even though he's clearly bounced back this year. It also depends on whether or not the Reys and Buehrle contracts will prevent the Jays from spending much going forward. We'll see.
The Mets deal looks ugly though. I personally thought that D'arnud would immediately be better than JP. Maybe not a star but a quality everyday catcher. The injuries are a concern but still, with how bad JP has been, that might hurt. I'm not too concerned over Syndergaard though. He's still mostly a 1-pitch guy right now and if he doesn't improve the curve-ball, there's still a legit chance he ends up as a reliever (albeit, a very good one). He's also probably 2 years away.
I'll never wish to take back a trade that brought Jose Reyes here. None of the players we traded away in either deal will be as good as him so whatever.
The Mets deal as far as I see it is a bust, but in all likelihood is a future bullpen arm and a guy who can't stay healthy and is replaceable by Aaron Sanchez in a couple years anyway. I still believe we haven't seen the best of Dickey yet either.
I don't love either trade as much, but even in hindsight we have to try and win with Edwin and Jose in the next 3 years anyway so I can't kill either deal. After seeing us waste Delgado and Halladay I'm sick of constantly building towards the nebulous future.
From everything I've read, Syndergaard has improved his curveball and is no longer just a one-pitch pitcher. He is also working to develop that change up. That Dickey trade has been horrible. I don't think it's going to get any better either. It looks like an absolute fleecing right now. I have always liked Syndergaard and I think he's got a legit shot at being a starter. He hasn't been challenged at any level yet. He's got an extremely good BB rate for someone who throws that hard and his K rate remains near 10k/9. I thought we had given enough by trading D'Arnaud, but adding Syndergaard on top of that was too much.
As for the Marlins trade, I'm not too worried about that one; we did give up pretty decent prospects, but no stars. We got the two best players in the deal (even though Johnson flopped).
Nicolino's K rate has regressed quite a bit; and while he was never gonna be a big K guy, it's below 6k/9 in single-A. Marisnik has been called up way too early, but he's got a legit baseball body. He looks overmatched at the moment, but I think he can develop into a very decent player. Adeiny Hech was leading the NL in average since the beginning of July (last i checked); he's not a bad piece either.
We seriously need to get rid of Buehrle, I do think it will come in the way of us signing some players or going after some good players...
If you look at Miami media (the same media that was ripping the Marlins for the trade), they are all eating crow now admitting it was a great trade for the organization.
Reyes is amazing (but also injury prone) and we gave up a ton to get that one piece. Hech is looking like a legit SS. Jake M is looking WAY better than Gose.
Hech is terrible. I'd be shocked if he ever hits. And with that bat, he better be the best defensive SS in the league to warrant playing everyday. Losing him in the deal meant little.
I feel the need to reiterate my position that unless in 3 of the players we gave up are a better combo than Edwin and the two Jose's in their prime then to hell with them all, I'm still glad we went all-in.
Just wish Dickey and Johnson would have some positive regression at some point and we'd still be golden going into 2014 (assuming Johnson would accept QO in the winter).
Johnson, Buhrle, Dickey didnt flop...
They simply got a healthy dose of ERA plus as I said before.
Guys in the National League always struggle to switch leagues by around 50 points of ERA. Add in the "battter friendly Blue Jays Rogers dome" and the "batter heavy" American League East - those 50 plus points of lost ERA translates into 5 lost games per pitcher.
What we gave up is of no consenquence as this team needs to reach the playoffs during the next 2 -3 years. They smell the fan discontent.
Keep em and resign Johnson if you can.
The big thing is dump all the middle relief and hangers on the rotation for a true number 1 pitcher if you can. Trade 4 for 1 or 5 for 1 and promote a bunch of rookies and D league guys to be your middle relief as long as you can possible land a Zack Grenkie or Roy Haliday.
Play it thin for 3 seasons - make the playoffs on bats an "timely vetern pitching" and then dump dump dump for another 7 year rebuild.