Can someone write me up a good summary of why Kevin Love is a "non impact" player, using stats and analysis. I need CONCRETE stats as well.
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Can someone write me up a good summary of why Kevin Love is a "non impact" player, using stats and analysis. I need CONCRETE stats as well.
He needs to be on a strong defensive team to mask up his deficiencies.
[QUOTE=supe12sta12z]He needs to be on a strong defensive team to mask up his deficiencies.[/QUOTE]
What if that defensive team would have to give up an arm and a leg to get him.
He's very inefficient. I mean when your under .500 % every game and you take the ammount of shots he takes thats basically giving up 10, 15 free possessions every game to the opposing team. Also and then when your not a good defender at all that allows scores on those missed shots you gave up.
Lets look at his past 3 games
6-20
6-15
12-25
Thats 36 missed shots
At the free throw line he missed 12 shots
Now lets get into TO which he has 6 and fouls which he has 8
Now when we add this up all together he has [B]48 missed shots 8 fouls and 6 turnovers with below average defense[/B]
I also question his ability to get the best out of his teammates. I have not liked what I have seen from Kevin Love
Basically the good he does is negated by the much worse mistakes he makes (which is more than the good) which is the reason why this Wolves team cant pull of wins with him as the star
[QUOTE=FreezingTsmoove]He's very inefficient. I mean when your under .500 % every game and you take the ammount of shots he takes thats basically giving up 10, 15 free possessions every game to the opposing team. Also and then when your not a good defender at all that allows scores on those missed shots you gave up.
Lets look at his past 3 games
6-20
6-15
12-25
Thats 36 missed shots
At the free throw line he missed 12 shots
Now lets get into TO which he has 6 and fouls which he has 8
Now when we add this up all together he has [B]48 missed shots 8 fouls and 6 turnovers with below average defense[/B]
I also question his ability to get the best out of his teammates. I have not liked what I have seen from Kevin Love[/QUOTE]
I need his overall, 5 year condensed avg's. I'm in a debate with some Kevin Love nut hugger. He'll say something like, "its only been 3 games!" I'm saying, I'd rather have Aldridge or Z-bo any day of the week.
Edit: I already told his stupid ass about his 3 game numbers. Just a stubborn Love nut hugger.
[QUOTE=tikay0]I need his overall, 5 year condensed avg's. I'm in a debate with some Kevin Love nut hugger. He'll say something like, "its only been 3 games!" I'm saying, I'd rather have Aldridge or Z-bo any day of the week.
Edit: I already told his stupid ass about his 3 game numbers. Just a stubborn Love nut hugger.[/QUOTE]
Imagine you will succeed and be able to convince him. Is life going to be any better for you? For him? For anyone else?
Before putting in way too much effort, give yourself 25 second to think about it. It may not be worth the effort.
[QUOTE=FreezingTsmoove]
6-20
6-15
12-25
Thats 36 missed shots
At the free throw line he missed 12 shots
[/QUOTE]
If you would have watched the games, you would have noticed the brace on his shooting hand and the grimace on his face at the free throw line.
Its funny how people make assumptions from three games worth of box scores. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=elementally morale]Imagine you will succeed and be able to convince him. Is life going to be any better for you? For him? For anyone else?
Before putting in way too much effort, give yourself 25 second to think about it. It may not be worth the effort.[/QUOTE]
There is no convincing a Love fan boy. There just isn't.
[QUOTE=tikay0]I'm saying, I'd rather have Aldridge or Z-bo any day of the week.
[/QUOTE]
It depends on what you're looking for in a player....
Aldridge is longer and more of a deterrent at the rim and a good midranger shooter with an unblockable release, but doesn't rebound like Love or Z-Bo.
Randolph is more of an automatic bucket down low and hes a great rebounder, but doesn't block shots and doesn't pass as well.
Love is an elite rebounder, stretches the floor, and is a decent passer for his position, but he doesn't block shots or have great low post moves.
[QUOTE=BankShot]It depends on what you're looking for in a player....
Aldridge is longer and more of a deterrent at the rim and a good midranger shooter with an unblockable release, but doesn't rebound like Love or Z-Bo.
Randolph is more of an automatic bucket down low and hes a great rebounder, but doesn't block shots and doesn't pass as well.
Love is an elite rebounder, stretches the floor, and is a decent passer for his position, but he doesn't block shots or have great low post moves.[/QUOTE]
Gimme Tim Duncan/KG. When they were younger. Good Lord, the NBA big men are watered down........
[QUOTE=tikay0]There is no convincing a Love fan boy. There just isn't.[/QUOTE]
Hate to break it to you..... but there isn't a prayer trying to convince [I]any fanboy[/I] something other than what their tunnel vision sees.
My advice? Quit the fruitless arguments with trolls and homers, and talk basketball with the objective and rational posters.
[QUOTE=tikay0]Gimme Tim Duncan/KG. When they were younger. Good Lord, the NBA big men are watered down........[/QUOTE]
Okay.... so give you first-ballot HOFers in their prime instead of one- or two-time All-Stars still developing their skills?
Sure, bud. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=BankShot]Hate to break it to you..... but there isn't a prayer trying to convince [I]any fanboy[/I] something other than what their tunnel vision sees.
My advice? Quit the fruitless arguments with trolls and homers, and talk basketball with the objective and rational posters.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Your right.
[QUOTE=BankShot]
Randolph is more of an automatic bucket down low and hes a great rebounder, but doesn't block shots and [B]doesn't pass as well.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
id disagree
i think that was a valid criticism of z-bo in the past, but this year he has been passing the ball pretty well.
alongside marc, memphis has the best interior passing in the league.
[QUOTE=chips93]id disagree
i think that was a valid criticism of z-bo in the past, but this year he has been passing the ball pretty well.
alongside marc, memphis has the best interior passing in the league.[/QUOTE]
I haven't seen much of the Grizz this year, so that very well may be the case.... i was saying that kinda as a generalization in comparison to Love.
Klove is better than your favorite player. [COLOR="White"]lol[/COLOR]
Dude is wearing a brace on his hand and is STILL recording double-doubles. Impact? Last year (not the lockout season), Minny was 17-56 when Love played..not good obviously. BUT, consider the fact they were 0-9 in the 9 games without him. In fact, save for this season, he's missed 34 career games; the twolves are 4-30 without him.
Efficiency you say? Last season he shot 45% w/ five 3PA per game (hit at 37% clip), and 82% from the charity stripe. Wait a few games and then we'll talk. Just be patient. He'll be back.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Klove is better than your favorite player. [COLOR="White"]lol[/COLOR]
Dude is wearing a brace on his hand and is STILL recording double-doubles. Impact? Last year (not the lockout season), Minny was 17-56 when Love played..not good obviously. BUT, consider the fact they were 0-9 in the games (save for this season, Love has missed 34 career games; the twolves are 4-30 w/o him).
Efficiency you say? Last season he shot 45% w/ five 3PA per game (hit at 37% clip), and 82% from the charity stripe. Wait a few games and then we'll talk. Just be patient. He'll be back.[/QUOTE]
And did he make any of his teammates better? Or play a lick of defense? What are his assist numbers? Block numbers? Also, judging by his fg%, for a big man, their not that good.
[QUOTE=BankShot]I haven't seen much of the Grizz this year, so that very well may be the case.... i was saying that kinda as a generalization in comparison to Love.[/QUOTE]
your a minny fan right? how is love's passing? i remember coming out of ucla he was seen as a pretty good passer, but ive never really seen it in the nba. i dont watch many wolves' games though.
[QUOTE=tikay0]And did he make any of his teammates better? Or play a lick of defense? What are his assist numbers? Block numbers?[/QUOTE]
Chill mija.
Check the teams W/L record without him. Of course he makes them better.
Now that he has help (assuming Rubio will be back around AS break), Minny should be a playoff team.
[QUOTE=tikay0]And did he make any of his teammates better? Or play a lick of defense? What are his assist numbers? Block numbers? Also, judging by his fg%, for a big man, their not that good.[/QUOTE]
judging by their win-loss record with, and without him, i think we can undoubtedly say that, yes, he did make his team better, quite a lot better actually.
And did he make any of his teammates better? Or play a lick of defense? What are his assist numbers? Block numbers? Also, judging by his fg%, for a big man, their not that good.
Basic stats?? APG??? BPG??? :facepalm
Haters are gonna focus on what players don't do, and homers are going to overstate what they can do.
Kevin Love is an elite rebounder with shooting range beyond the three-point range, making him a very unique player in today's NBA. Last year he added an effective step-back J, but his isolation post game is still in development.
Athletically he will never be elite and his arms won't grow any longer, so basic stats like BPG will never catch any eyes. With that being said, he's 24 years old and still has plenty to learn about man- and team-defense which is far from rare for someone of his age.
Any Wolves fan with an ounce of critical thought in their brain should know that he's far from the two-way franchise player necessary for title contention, but he's absolutely a cornerstone moving forward.
End thread.
[QUOTE=BankShot]Basic stats?? APG??? BPG??? :facepalm
Haters are gonna focus on what players don't do, and homers are going to overstate what they can do.
Kevin Love is an elite rebounder with shooting range beyond the three-point range, making him a very unique player in today's NBA. Last year he added an effective step-back J, but his isolation post game is still in development.
Athletically he will never be elite and his arms won't grow any longer, so basic stats like BPG will never catch any eyes. With that being said, he's 24 years old and still has plenty to learn about man- and team-defense which is far from rare for someone of his age.
Any Wolves fan with an ounce of critical thought in their brain should know that he's far from the two-way franchise player necessary for title contention, but he's absolutely a cornerstone moving forward.
End thread.[/QUOTE]
:pimp:
Also, simply blurting out stats without understanding meaning or context is just ignorant.
"FG% for a big man" is blatantly oversimplified. For a player like Love who plays the PF position one would expect his FG% to match that of other PFs.... but there are factors that could or would make it not the case.
For instance, Love takes much more three-pointers than your average PF/C. Even if he makes them at a good rate, that percentage is likely to be lower than the higher-percentage shots your average PF/C would take.... which would effectively lower his FG%.
If we're going to say he's an inefficient offensive player solely based on FG%, it should be compared to the FG% of other players that play [U]like him[/U], not the players at the same position.
Most of his points (Outside of FTs) come from offensive rebounds and spot up jumpers. That's a big issue right there. He's not that good at creating his own shot.
Defensively he is porous. Sometimes embarassingly bad. He's slow footed and surprisingly easy to abuse in the post. He doesn't get you blocks or steals, either. Far too ground-bound.
He's a decent passer, but so what? Almost everyone in the league is a decent passer.
Remember, the stats he put up last season were on a really, really bad team, devoid of scorers and rebounders. That undoubtedly contributed to his inflated numbers. He's a borderline top 10 player, and that's probably very generous.
[QUOTE=oolalaa]Most of his points (Outside of FTs) come from offensive rebounds and spot up jumpers. That's a big issue right there. He's not that good at creating his own shot.
Defensively he is porous. Sometimes embarassingly bad. He's slow footed and surprisingly easy to abuse in the post. He doesn't get you blocks or steals, either. Far too ground-bound.
He's a decent passer, but so what? Almost everyone in the league is a decent passer.
Remember, the stats he put up last season were on a really, really bad team, devoid of scorers and rebounders. That undoubtedly contributed to his inflated numbers. He's a borderline top 10 player, and that's probably very generous.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. :pimp:
Another strong post, Bankshot. To say a guy that led the league in double-doubles, who's efficient from 3 and the FT line, doesn't impact your team or make them better? IDK man. Y'all need to learn the game!
[QUOTE=BankShot]Basic stats?? APG??? BPG??? :facepalm
Haters are gonna focus on what players don't do, and homers are going to overstate what they can do.
Kevin Love is an elite rebounder with shooting range beyond the three-point range, making him a very unique player in today's NBA. Last year he added an effective step-back J, but his isolation post game is still in development.
Athletically he will never be elite and his arms won't grow any longer, so basic stats like BPG will never catch any eyes. With that being said, he's 24 years old and still has plenty to learn about man- and team-defense which is far from rare for someone of his age.
[B][SIZE="3"]Any Wolves fan with an ounce of critical thought in their brain should know that he's far from the two-way franchise player necessary for title contention, but he's absolutely a cornerstone moving forward.
[/SIZE][/B]
End thread.[/QUOTE]
My sentiments, exactly.
[QUOTE=oolalaa]He's a borderline top 10 player, and that's probably generous.[/QUOTE]
Again... I don't think anyone with a critically-thinking brain would suggest otherwise.
I don't know about you, but having a 24-year old Top-10 player on a young up-and-coming team is pretty awesome.
Sure he needs to improve on his isolation game on offense, and footwork and scheme understanding on defense.... but that could be said about most young players. As far as I'm concerned he's far from a finished product, and as it stands he's a unique and productive player.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Another strong post. Bankshot. To say a guy that led the league in double-doubles, who's efficient from 3 and the FT line, doesn't impact your team or make them better? IDK man. Y'all need to learn the game![/QUOTE]
Most of his points (Outside of FTs) come from offensive rebounds and spot up jumpers. That's a big issue right there. He's not that good at creating his own shot.
Defensively he is porous. Sometimes embarassingly bad. He's slow footed and surprisingly easy to abuse in the post. He doesn't get you blocks or steals, either. Far too ground-bound.
He's a decent passer, but so what? Almost everyone in the league is a decent passer.
Remember, the stats he put up last season were on a really, really bad team, devoid of scorers and rebounders. That undoubtedly contributed to his inflated numbers. He's a borderline top 10 player, and that's probably very generous.
[QUOTE=tikay0]Gimme Tim Duncan/KG. When they were younger. Good Lord, the NBA big men are watered down........[/QUOTE]
You're really going out on a limb there.
[QUOTE=BankShot]Again... I don't think anyone with a critically-thinking brain would suggest otherwise.
I don't know about you, but having a 24-year old Top-10 player on a young up-and-coming team is pretty awesome.
Sure he needs to improve on his isolation game on offense, and footwork and scheme understanding on defense.... but that could be said about most young players. As far as I'm concerned he's far from a finished product, and as it stands he's a unique and productive player.[/QUOTE]
Yes, anyone can get better. But, you don't just become good on defense. Look at Carlos Boozer. It's not he doesn't try, or he doesn't understand the schemes. It's because he has slow feet. He can't do anything about that.
Not sure why you are posting someone else's post, but alright! :oldlol:
I fully acknowledge he's a piss-poor defender and doesn't have the impact your "ordinary" (elite) big man does. Does that mean he's void of impact and/or able to make the players around him better? Smarten up.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Another strong post, Bankshot. To say a guy that led the league in double-doubles, who's efficient from 3 and the FT line, doesn't impact your team or make them better? IDK man. Y'all need to learn the game![/QUOTE]
He's the Wolves' best player but doesn't have isolation handles or make highlight reel dunks and blocks, so its hard for your uniformed or casual fan to try to understand his importance on the court and to his team.
People see big numbers and low win totals and assume its selfish or hollow play... when its often young players on young teams that haven't figured out how to take what they do thats productive and give it context within a winning culture.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Not sure why you are posting someone else's post, but alright! :oldlol:
I fully acknowledge he's a piss-poor defender and doesn't have the impact your "ordinary" (elite) big man does. Does that mean he's void of impact and/or able to make the players around him better? Smarten up.[/QUOTE]
Most of his points (Outside of FTs) come from offensive rebounds and spot up jumpers. That's a big issue right there. He's not that good at creating his own shot.
Defensively he is porous. Sometimes embarassingly bad. He's slow footed and surprisingly easy to abuse in the post. He doesn't get you blocks or steals, either. Far too ground-bound.
He's a decent passer, but so what? Almost everyone in the league is a decent passer.
Remember, the stats he put up last season were on a really, really bad team, devoid of scorers and rebounders. That undoubtedly contributed to his inflated numbers. He's a borderline top 10 player, and that's probably very generous.
[QUOTE=tikay0]Yes, anyone can get better. But, you don't just become good on defense. Look at Carlos Boozer. It's not he doesn't try, or he doesn't understand the schemes. It's because he has slow feet. He can't do anything about that.[/QUOTE]
Footwork and position can be improved through practice, quickness can be improved with training, and team defense can be improved though understanding the defensive game plan.
[QUOTE=BankShot]Footwork and position can be improved through practice, quickness can be improved with training, and team defense can be improved though understanding the defensive game plan.[/QUOTE]
Stop it. :facepalm
[QUOTE=tikay0]Most of his points (Outside of FTs) come from offensive rebounds and spot up jumpers. That's a big issue right there. He's not that good at creating his own shot.
Defensively he is porous. Sometimes embarassingly bad. He's slow footed and surprisingly easy to abuse in the post. He doesn't get you blocks or steals, either. Far too ground-bound.
He's a decent passer, but so what? Almost everyone in the league is a decent passer.
Remember, the stats he put up last season were on a really, really bad team, devoid of scorers and rebounders. That undoubtedly contributed to his inflated numbers. He's a borderline top 10 player, and that's probably very generous.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Later, troll.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]:roll:
Later, troll.[/QUOTE]
Most of his points (Outside of FTs) come from offensive rebounds and spot up jumpers. That's a big issue right there. He's not that good at creating his own shot.
Defensively he is porous. Sometimes embarassingly bad. He's slow footed and surprisingly easy to abuse in the post. He doesn't get you blocks or steals, either. Far too ground-bound.
He's a decent passer, but so what? Almost everyone in the league is a decent passer.
Remember, the stats he put up last season were on a really, really bad team, devoid of scorers and rebounders. That undoubtedly contributed to his inflated numbers. He's a borderline top 10 player, and that's probably very generous.