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-   -   Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282370)

HardwoodLegend 11-24-2012 04:55 PM

Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
I think a prime T-Mac would smoke, school and style all on Kevin Durant head-to-head. KD wouldn't have been able to guard T-McGrizzle, and T-McGreasy would D him up hard and frustrate his offense the same way he did to Dirk in the 2005 Playoffs.

KD has shown scoring prowess with incredible efficiency, but I think T-McGutta would have been just as efficient had he gotten some help over there in Orlando. The frustration mounted, taking a toll on his mentality, and he began to adopt terrible habits as he felt an increasing need to carry that team all by himself. He was fully willing to be a team player and use his playmaking skills alongside Grant Hill, but the feeling of isolation stayed with him even as he went over to Houston and found himself sometimes haunted by those ghosts.

Overall, T-McGrimey was just a flat-out better talent and would have had a great career with some more roster assistance early on when he was mentally vulnerable as a youngster. I think this would have motivated him to work harder on his fitness and prolong his career as well.

I'm not excusing his fragile mindstate, which seems to have been his only flaw as a player.

L.Kizzle 11-24-2012 05:17 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Mac is the better talent, Durant would probably tell you that.

TheBigAristotle1 11-24-2012 05:37 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
T-Mac could've been a better player, better than Durant? Probably not. Durant is one of the most effecient and difficult to guard players in the league. Aside from a few years in Orlando T-Mac was never effecient or a consistent shooter.

T-Mac didn't work hard enough on his shooting (look at his FT%), his ball handling, or his conditioning (he prefered to play a slow down style of play even though his skill set and body type were better for an up tempo offense.

Also it isn't clear whether he's more talented than Durant. Durant is bigger, has longer arms, much better hand eye coordination, and a better first step. T-Mac (pre-injury) was faster, stronger, and might have had a higher verticle (allthough Durant get's up). And most importantly Durant is much, much, much more durable, which if you've ever played sports you would know is extremely important.

LBJ 23 11-24-2012 05:37 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
T-mac

HardwoodLegend 11-24-2012 05:39 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Mac is the better talent, Durant would probably tell you that.


Maybe to appear humble in front of the cameras, but I think every superstar believes deep down they are better than the next dude.

Hell, even Deshawn Stevenson was likely thinking to himself "that fool LeBron ain't $hit!" when he outscored him in one of those games in the Finals.

DStebb716 11-24-2012 05:40 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
I hate these "one-on-one" debates because they literally have no merit whatsoever. You could say that T-Mac would shake n bake KD, but how would TMac handle KD's length? He'd have to shoot on a really high arc. How would he handle KD's ability to shoot and drive? It goes both ways.


Debating the better basketball player, it's close. But I have to say KD. I think both are all-timers, KD is one of the most difficult players to guard in the history of the association. His length, ability to drive, ability to shoot, and now ability to rebound, is an absolute killer. He's too multidimensional to stop.

tikay0 11-24-2012 05:55 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
T-Mac. Orlando Mac was my favorite player ever.

Clifton 11-24-2012 06:53 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Hardly anyone's ever been as "talented" as Tmac was.

Who cares? Take your talent and shove it. You never accomplished anything and you didn't work hard. And KD's very talented himself. He's at least 6'10, long ass arms, and can dribble and move like that? Hands that soft and good? A scoring instinct every bit as good as Tmac's, and he can actually consistently make jumpshots and free throws to boot?

I gotta give it to KD. Despite Tmac's huge advantage over him in passing. Tmac was a great passer... among guys currently playing I'd say only Paul, Kidd, Lebron, and Nash are comparable. Tmac might have an edge over even some of them.

StateOfMind12 11-24-2012 06:55 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Tmac was probably more talented than Lebron. He wasn't better than either Lebron or Durant though. Being Better and being more talented are different.

Clifton 11-24-2012 06:59 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Tmac was probably more talented than Lebron.
Maybe. It's a good question.

I'd probably go with Lebron. Having a guy the size and strength of Karl Malone who can dribble and move and pass like a point guard is hard to top. But if Tmac had perfected his game and his body (I will never believe his injury problems were not preventable) the way Kobe did and consistently applied himself on defense? Close. Certainly, they're 2 of the most talented guys to ever come around.

L.Kizzle 11-24-2012 07:01 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clifton
Hardly anyone's ever been as "talented" as Tmac was.

Who cares? Take your talent and shove it. You never accomplished anything and you didn't work hard. And KD's very talented himself. He's at least 6'10, long ass arms, and can dribble and move like that? Hands that soft and good? A scoring instinct every bit as good as Tmac's, and he can actually consistently make jumpshots and free throws to boot?

I gotta give it to KD. Despite Tmac's huge advantage over him in passing. Tmac was a great passer... among guys currently playing I'd say only Paul, Kidd, Lebron, and Nash are comparable. Tmac might have an edge over even some of them.

I don't get this about T-Mac. Everyone says he doesn't or didn't work hard? You don't just make the NBA without any work. Ok, he may not have the work ethic of Kobe, but who the hell does?

Remember him as a rookie, than think of him in his 7th, 8th season with Orlando. That was work put in. Dude was what 180 6'7 twig out of high school?

Durant is durable, some people have good and bad luck. Mac was pretty durable his first couple of season in Orlando. Just bad luck.

Andre Miller, come in camp and the early seasons some times chubby and out of shape, yet homie has missed a handful of games his entire career. That is just pure luck.

StateOfMind12 11-24-2012 07:02 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clifton
Maybe. It's a good question.

I'd probably go with Lebron. Having a guy the size and strength of Karl Malone who can dribble and move and pass like a point guard is hard to top. But if Tmac had perfected his game and his body (I will never believe his injury problems were not preventable) the way Kobe did and consistently applied himself on defense? Close. Certainly, they're 2 of the most talented guys to ever come around.

Tmac was not as physically gifted as Lebron but he was more overall skilled than he was. Specifically with his smooth jump shot.

Tmac was probably just as quick and fast as Lebron was, maybe even quicker and faster, but the strength is the biggest difference between the two and that is where Lebron has a huge physical edge over McGrady.

HardwoodLegend 11-24-2012 07:04 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Tmac was probably more talented than Lebron. He wasn't better than either Lebron or Durant though. Being Better and being more talented are different.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...65#post7982165

Thoughts?

L.Kizzle 11-24-2012 07:05 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Tmac was not as physically gifted as Lebron but he was more overall skilled than he was. Specifically with his smooth jump shot.

Tmac was probably just as quick and fast as Lebron was, maybe even quicker and faster, but the strength is the biggest difference between the two and that is where Lebron has a huge physical edge over McGrady.

Bron has that edge over everyone.

StateOfMind12 11-24-2012 07:08 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend

:oldlol:

Tmac from 01-05 was a great player that I respect. Tmac from post-05 is someone I don't. When I was talking about Yao, it was mainly about Yao at his prime which was from 06-09 and which was also when Yao played with the loser version of McGrady, of course, you say it was just the injured version of McGrady but whatever.

elementally morale 11-24-2012 07:18 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
McGrady had the most talent among all players I have seen coming into the NBA since 1980, not counting thse three: MJ, Magic and Bird.

Unless you count the mental preparedness as talent, that is.

pauk 11-24-2012 07:18 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Tmac was not as physically gifted as Lebron but he was more overall skilled than he was. Specifically with his smooth jump shot.

Tmac was probably just as quick and fast as Lebron was, maybe even quicker and faster, but the strength is the biggest difference between the two and that is where Lebron has a huge physical edge over McGrady.


Stop it, stop... I dont give a damn how "smooth" his jumpshot looked when it went in at a lesser and more inconsistant efficiency, T-Mac was not better than Lebron at anything whatsoever... except shotjacking/chucking..

As far as this thread goes i would take Durant any day, T-Mac was somewhat of a better passer, Durant is MUCH more efficient / better shooter and more consistant... defensively pretty much the same, although i like Durants potential on that end aswell

StateOfMind12 11-24-2012 07:53 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pauk
Stop it, stop... I dont give a damn how "smooth" his jumpshot looked when it went in at a lesser and more inconsistant efficiency, T-Mac was not better than Lebron at anything whatsoever... except shotjacking/chucking..

As far as this thread goes i would take Durant any day, T-Mac was somewhat of a better passer, Durant is MUCH more efficient / better shooter and more consistant... defensively pretty much the same, although i like Durants potential on that end aswell

Obviously Lebron is better overall, that is not a debate, but in terms of pure ability/talent/skill, Tmac probably was better than Lebron was but like one person said.....talent doesn't mean squat if you don't accomplish anything with it.

swi7ch 11-24-2012 08:09 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
I like TMac cos he is not one-dimensional like Durant.

tikay0 11-24-2012 08:18 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Gimme the guy that has the footwork to self alley oop on a game to game basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDX5wQz4VE

Here's Lebron's ole robotic ass. LMFAO! Can't even do it, without traveling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26YnWnwNmQo

T-mac was too smooth. LBJ is way too stiff to be considered fun to watch for me.

Dave3 11-24-2012 08:24 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pauk
Stop it, stop... I dont give a damn how "smooth" his jumpshot looked when it went in at a lesser and more inconsistant efficiency, T-Mac was not better than Lebron at anything whatsoever... except shotjacking/chucking..

As far as this thread goes i would take Durant any day, T-Mac was somewhat of a better passer, Durant is MUCH more efficient / better shooter and more consistant... defensively pretty much the same, although i like Durants potential on that end aswell

Look I like LeBron as much as the next guy, but there's no doubt Tmac during his best years was a better shooter. The jumper didn't just look better, it went in. In their best respective jump shooting seasons, from 16-23 feet LeBron shot 43 and 40, while Tmac shot 44 in both. From 3, Tmac has had seasons of 39, 36.4 and 35.5. LeBron's best 3 point shooting season came last year at 36 with 2.4 attempts a game. Tmac's 39 came at 6 attempts a game. Even with more than double the volume he converted better percentages from outside.

I like both players, but to try and pass LeBron along as a better jumpshooter than Tmac is just plain wrong.

tikay0 11-24-2012 08:25 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
Look I like LeBron as much as the next guy, but there's no doubt Tmac during his best years was a better shooter. The jumper didn't just look better, it went in. In their best respective jump shooting seasons, from 16-23 feet LeBron shot 43 and 40, while Tmac shot 44 in both. From 3, Tmac has had seasons of 39, 36.4 and 35.5. LeBron's best 3 point shooting season came last year at 36 with 2.4 attempts a game. Tmac's 39 came at 6 attempts a game. Even with more than double the volume he converted better percentages from outside.

I like both players, but to try and pass LeBron along as a better jumpshooter than Tmac is just plain wrong.


These young ins don't remember MAC.

HardwoodLegend 11-24-2012 08:46 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
:oldlol:

Tmac from 01-05 was a great player that I respect. Tmac from post-05 is someone I don't. When I was talking about Yao, it was mainly about Yao at his prime which was from 06-09 and which was also when Yao played with the loser version of McGrady, of course, you say it was just the injured version of McGrady but whatever.


Injured/discouraged version.

That series broke my heart, and I was ready to give up as a fan... so I have no idea how T-Mac took it after being the main focal point and outplaying the other team's superstar by a good margin. I am probably even mentally weaker than he is, and I doubt I would have wanted to pick up a basketball in the offseason after that.

2004-05 should have been the start of something great with T-Mac and Yao.

HardwoodLegend 11-24-2012 09:04 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pauk
Stop it, stop... I dont give a damn how "smooth" his jumpshot looked when it went in at a lesser and more inconsistant efficiency, T-Mac was not better than Lebron at anything whatsoever... except shotjacking/chucking..

As far as this thread goes i would take Durant any day, T-Mac was somewhat of a better passer, Durant is MUCH more efficient / better shooter and more consistant... defensively pretty much the same, although i like Durants potential on that end aswell


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
Look I like LeBron as much as the next guy, but there's no doubt Tmac during his best years was a better shooter. The jumper didn't just look better, it went in. In their best respective jump shooting seasons, from 16-23 feet LeBron shot 43 and 40, while Tmac shot 44 in both. From 3, Tmac has had seasons of 39, 36.4 and 35.5. LeBron's best 3 point shooting season came last year at 36 with 2.4 attempts a game. Tmac's 39 came at 6 attempts a game. Even with more than double the volume he converted better percentages from outside.

I like both players, but to try and pass LeBron along as a better jumpshooter than Tmac is just plain wrong.


Objective analysis helps.

pauk is obviously one of the ones who is left with a bitter taste in his mouth when he says "T-Mac".

ThunderKat 11-24-2012 10:13 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
T-mac was a great talent, but his legacy is tied up with being injured a ton.

HardwoodLegend 11-25-2012 10:16 PM

Re: Kevin Durant or T-Mac: The Better Individual Talent?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
I don't get this about T-Mac. Everyone says he doesn't or didn't work hard? You don't just make the NBA without any work. Ok, he may not have the work ethic of Kobe, but who the hell does?

Remember him as a rookie, than think of him in his 7th, 8th season with Orlando. That was work put in. Dude was what 180 6'7 twig out of high school?

Durant is durable, some people have good and bad luck. Mac was pretty durable his first couple of season in Orlando. Just bad luck.

Andre Miller, come in camp and the early seasons some times chubby and out of shape, yet homie has missed a handful of games his entire career. That is just pure luck.


Bad luck with the chronic back issues, which probably cut into the time he was willing to train.

His game was so explosive and athletically based, yet he let himself go in the offseasons when he was in Houston. I remember being so excited when he was coming to town in 2004-05 but was let down by how chubby he was at the start of the season and all the seasons that followed.

He set his own body up for failure by not maintaining it. You can't just flick a switch like that on and off when you're so dependent on athleticism. I'm no sports doctor, but my innate logic tells me that tricks your ligaments and leaves them vulnerable when they can't keep up with your muscle ignition.

But again, it could be due to the bad back which discouraged him from wanting to aggravate the spasms.

A dude like Andre Miller can get by being chubby at times since his game isn't as athletically demanding and is far more skill-based.


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