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peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Lebron will most likely beat out Bird in terms of longevity.
But peak vs peak, I'd take Bird over Lebron.
we're talking about a similar height players but one weighs almost 50 pounds over the other.
One is MUCH less athletic.
One is arguably the greatest passer of all time.
One plays OFF the ball, with a career USG% in the 24-26 range in regular season and the playoffs and still averaged 6.3 and 6.5 assists in the regular season and playoffs, respectively, with peak averages of 7.2 and 8.6, respectively.
One averages 10 rebounds for regular season and playoffs. regular season and playoff TRB% of 14.2 and 13.9. averaged 15+ rebounds against Moses MAlone in 1981 playoffs and getting back to back 20+ rebound games. :bowdown:
One is an incredible shooter.
One won 3 consecutive MVPs.
That one is Larry Bird.
:bowdown: :bowdown:
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Only those who were born in the 90s and up would say LBJ is the GOAT SF. I started watching basketball in the 80s and can say without a doubt that Larry Legend is the GOAT SF. If someone needs an explanation why I say this then it's clear that someone has never seen prime Larry Legend.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Bird is my favorite player of all time, but as much as I hate to say it I will have to side with LeBron, but it's not ridiculous to go with Bird.
LeBron's ability to play PG & defend does it for me, but I do believe Bird had better court vision & was a better rebounder than LeBron.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
I remember this one game when Larry hit a game winning 3 pointer... only it turns out that his coach had called a timeout and the players just didn't hear it because it was too loud in the building. While walking back to the bench, Larry pointed to a spot on the floor as if to say something liek "I'm gonna shoot right here." Then timeout ends, play resumes, and guess what? Larry hit yet *another* game winning 3 pointer... from the spot he pointed at. Basically back-to-back "game-winning" 3 pointers!
Someone needs to find the YouTube of this!!! :bowdown: I've seen it on YT before but didn't bookmark it...
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
You take the mentally tougher, and overall tougher player 9/10 times, skills being equal. Lebron would curl up in a ball if he was about to get into a fight Dr. J.
He'd never be the leader he is now, back in the old school days.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Yeah I watched Bird and Bird himself would tell u Lebron is better. Lebron will finish his career in tbe top 5 all time probably right behind MJ but some will argue Lebron as the goat.. Championships will be deciding factor.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
larry bird cuz he has a unstoppable jumper making him harder to contain
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Then there is the other half of the floor....... where you play defense....
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=pauk]Then there is the other half of the floor....... where you play defense....[/QUOTE]
you make it sound like Bird was a terrible defender or something. Lebron's defense is better, but not that much, at least for me, to take him over Bird's overall game.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[B]Close but it's Larry Bird
better shooter from pretty much everywhere
better postgame
better rebounder
even better passer
better off-ball offensive game
better post and help D
better leader
tougher mentality
definitely more clutch
higher basketball iq
At his best, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP, 27/10/7/2/1 on 51/40/90 stats, in a more competitive era, as far as teams, stars and Sf's, with much less usage.
And if he wasn't injured in the 85 playoffs he would've probably take another ring and FMVP.
I know that his D is gonna get underrated here also. Let me just say that when he arrived the Celtics became one of the best defensive teams in the league while the previous year they were one of the worst, basically same roster.
In his 1st year led the league in DWS and 6th in DRtg, no Parish or McHale yet, no big-man blocking more than 1 shot per game.
Went on to lead the league in DWS for 3 more times, top5 6 times. 2nd in DRtg in 1984, top10 6 times during his career.
McHale never was top10 in either, by 84 Parish was blocking less than 1.5 shots per game.
So please don't underrated his D.
Oh and if y'all wanna mention pace, be smarter than that: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA[/url]
Fact that Bird could flat otu dominate in a lot of ways, ball dominant, off-ball, inside, outside and so on... gives the man a huge edge.
Could hurt in more ways.
[/B]
[QUOTE=dh144498]
we're talking about a similar height players but one weighs almost 50 pounds over the other.
[/QUOTE]
[B]Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...[/B]
[QUOTE=pauk]Then there is the other half of the floor....... where you play defense....[/QUOTE]
[B]Look at this ignorant dude, please read what I said about his D above and explain that... If it was Lebron doing that right now people like you would be going crazy[/B]
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Bird is my favorite player of all time, but as much as I hate to say it I will have to side with LeBron, but it's not ridiculous to go with Bird.
LeBron's ability to play PG & defend does it for me, but I do believe Bird had better court vision & was a better rebounder than LeBron.[/QUOTE]
How can he be your favorite player and youve never seen him play on a consistent basis. Meaning im sure youve seen highlights or some of his greatest games etc.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Close but it's Larry Bird
better shooter from pretty much everywhere
better postgame
better rebounder
even better passer
better off-ball offensive game
better post and help D
better leader
tougher mentality
definitely more clutch
higher basketball iq
At his best, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP, 27/10/7/2/1 on 51/40/90 stats, in a more competitive era, as far as teams, stars and Sf's, with much less usage.
And if he wasn't injured in the 85 playoffs he would've probably take another ring and FMVP.
I know that his D is gonna get underrated here also. Let me just say that when he arrived the Celtics became one of the best defensive teams in the league while the previous year they were one of the worst, basically same roster.
In his 1st year led the league in DWS and 6th in DRtg, no Parish or McHale yet, no big-man blocking more than 1 shot per game.
Went on to lead the league in DWS for 3 more times, top5 6 times. 2nd in DRtg in 1984, top10 6 times during his career.
McHale never was top10 in either, by 84 Parish was blocking less than 1.5 shots per game.
So please don't underrated his D.
Oh and if y'all wanna mention pace, be smarter than that: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA[/url]
Fact that Bird could flat otu dominate in a lot of ways, ball dominant, off-ball, inside, outside and so on... gives the man a huge edge.
Could hurt in more ways.
[/B]
[B]Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...[/B]
[B]Look at this ignorant dude, please read what I said about his D above and explain that... If it was Lebron doing that right now people like you would be going crazy[/B][/QUOTE]
great post. Why did you suddenly bold everything. :sleeping
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Close but it's Larry Bird
better shooter from pretty much everywhere
better postgame
better rebounder
even better passer
better off-ball offensive game
better post and help D
better leader
tougher mentality
definitely more clutch
higher basketball iq
At his best, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP, 27/10/7/2/1 on 51/40/90 stats, in a more competitive era, as far as teams, stars and Sf's, with much less usage.
And if he wasn't injured in the 85 playoffs he would've probably take another ring and FMVP.
I know that his D is gonna get underrated here also. Let me just say that when he arrived the Celtics became one of the best defensive teams in the league while the previous year they were one of the worst, basically same roster.
In his 1st year led the league in DWS and 6th in DRtg, no Parish or McHale yet, no big-man blocking more than 1 shot per game.
Went on to lead the league in DWS for 3 more times, top5 6 times. 2nd in DRtg in 1984, top10 6 times during his career.
McHale never was top10 in either, by 84 Parish was blocking less than 1.5 shots per game.
So please don't underrated his D.
Oh and if y'all wanna mention pace, be smarter than that: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA[/url]
Fact that Bird could flat otu dominate in a lot of ways, ball dominant, off-ball, inside, outside and so on... gives the man a huge edge.
Could hurt in more ways.
[/B]
[B]Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...[/B]
[B]Look at this ignorant dude, please read what I said about his D above and explain that... If it was Lebron doing that right now people like you would be going crazy[/B][/QUOTE]
Your ETHER skills are amazing. :bowdown:
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
bu bu but don't Lebron stans always say: it's a 5 on 5 game?
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=97 bulls]How can he be your favorite player and youve never seen him play on a consistent basis. Meaning im sure youve seen highlights or some of his greatest games etc.[/QUOTE]
This.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.
The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
All things being equal Bird isn't going to spend the last 5 minutes of a winnable playoff game bitching up and passing to scrubs to bail him out while he stands in the corner because he's scared of his own shadow. It's a no-brainer. Bird is the more skilled player + he was a killer.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Blue&Orange][B]You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.[/B]
The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far, he'll still be a top 30 player in the league.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]This.[/QUOTE]
Hes the most confusing poster on the site. Hes a 22 year old Laker fan that lives in Golden State whose favorite player (Larry Bird) and team (1986 Celtics) hes never seen play. Hell he wasnt even born during the Celtics dynasty. Hell he wasnt even born in the 80s.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
It is very close, but I still have to go with Bird. Lebron is much better as a defender, finisher, ball-handler and open court player. But Bird was the much better shooter despite Lebron's improvements, a much off the ball player, a much better rebounder, a better post player and a better passer. Plus, intangibles, particularly leadership are in Bird's favor. His left hand was also as good of an off hand as any player you'll see. Check out the "left hand game" to see what I'm talking about.
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT]
[I]Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...[/I][/QUOTE]
I doubt 280, but 270 is pretty likely for Lebron. I don't know why people make a big deal out of this and refuse to believe it. Lebron has been 265-270 for 5 seasons now.
This is Lebron when he was a 245 pound rookie. And yes, he was officially weighed at 245 at the pre-draft camp.
[IMG]http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/LeBron-James1.jpg[/IMG]
Considering Lebron has obviously put on 20-25 pounds since then and pretty much every source has put Lebron in the 265-270 range, I don't know why people have such a hard time with this.
As far as Bird, I think his top weight in the 80's was 240ish, but I'm not sure.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
LeBron.
He's too well rounded now on offense (can beat you any way you want it) and is clearly a better defender.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.[/QUOTE]
Shame basketball isn't a one on one playground game, huh?
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
I haven't watched much of Bird play but I think I would go with Bird because Lebron relies on his athleticism too much. Bird was just skills and bball IQ. Plus he was tough minded and didn't back down when things got tough. Just a tough nosed country down to earth guy. To me if you take away Lebron's athleticism it's gonna be tough for him to score cause he can't shoot well and he has no post moves.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.
The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.[/QUOTE]
So dumb.
Size and athleticism have always been assets in this sport.
Give MJ Bird's athleticism, and Bird may very well be the better player.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Hes the most confusing poster on the site. Hes a 22 year old Laker fan that lives in Golden State whose favorite player (Larry Bird) and team (1986 Celtics) hes never seen play. Hell he wasnt even born during the Celtics dynasty. Hell he wasnt even born in the 80s.[/QUOTE]
Dude. You can spot these Lebron stans from a mile away.
"Ya see, I love Hakeem, but I think Lebron has a slightly better post game." :facepalm
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.
The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.[/QUOTE]
Give Nate Robinson Shaq's body and he'd the the goat.
Anyway, Lebron is elite at both ends of the floor and during Bird's time the game was played at a much higher pace.
But I'm not going to say anything because I've never watched Bird play, just like most of you.
What I do know though is that Bird(and his buddy Magic) has plenty of times said that Lebron is up there with Jordan as the best player in the history of the game.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=tikay0]Dude. You can spot these Lebron stans from a mile away.
"Ya see, I love Hakeem, but I think Lebron has a slightly better post game." :facepalm[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
who actually said that?
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Lebron doesn't even have a quick first step like that. So how did you come up with this conclusion?
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.[/QUOTE]
[B]Lebron fanboys mention it's a team game whenever rings come up then in this case talk about 1vs1.
Bird at one point or another was guarded by and destroyed dudes like Erving, Rodman, Cooper, Jordan, Bobby Jones, Pippen, Wilkins, Woolridge, McDaniel, Nance, Cliff Robinson, Kenny Walker, Worthy, Roundfield... plenty of them while he was under terrible conditions, not to mention doing this while trash talking the hell out of them. What would Lebron do better than them?
Also like the superstar Sf's nowadays cover one another or something like that, why don't people bring that up? Durant guards Lebron for most of the game? Or Melo? Not even close. Same can be said to a lesser extent for Lebron against other superstar Sf's. So please stop.
Oh yea and basketball it's 5on5.
Plus jumpers gotta be contested by the on-ball defender while if you drive you may meet other players on the way... Just to say Larry got more ways to score, shooting anyway from anywhere, postgame, could drive with a great touch around the basket with both hands, go look at some of his floaters, if it was today people would be drooling.
Replace Lebron with Larry in the 80's with the Celtics and he wouldn't have his dominance, success, impact and so on, ijs.[/B]
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=TheReal Kendall]:facepalm
Lebron doesn't even have a quick first step like that. So how did you come up with this conclusion?[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Like I pointed out in another thread. Lebron's lack of quick burst speed would hamper him against the hand check.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
this thread has quickly turned into a Lebron-bashing thread. Not my intentions. So guys, let's not discredit Lebron here, but let's all just take a deep breath and take a moment to recognize the greatness in Larry Bird. :bowdown:
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=dh144498]this thread has quickly turned into a Lebron-bashing thread. Not my intentions. So guys, let's not discredit Lebron here, but let's all just take a deep breath and take a moment to recognize the greatness in Larry Bird. :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/larry-bird.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
have we even seen LeBron's peak yet? he seems to be improving every single season since he's been in the league :confusedshrug:
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Peak Bird vs LeBron we're seeing now? Peak Bird.
But we'll see if LeBron gets better. He still has more time to improve his perimeter shooting, post game and FT shooting before his athleticism starts to fade.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=K Xerxes]Peak Bird vs LeBron we're seeing now? Peak Bird.
But we'll see if LeBron gets better. He still has more time to improve his perimeter shooting, post game and FT shooting before his athleticism starts to fade.[/QUOTE]
this is true.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Solefade]have we even seen LeBron's peak yet? he seems to be improving every single season since he's been in the league :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
This is true.
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
Let me ask how could Lebron be in conversation for Goat with MJ by media and former players but not be better than Bird ?
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Re: peak Bird vs peak Lebron
[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Yeah I watched Bird and Bird himself would tell u Lebron is better. Lebron will finish his career in tbe top 5 all time probably right behind MJ but some will argue Lebron as the goat.. Championships will be deciding factor.[/QUOTE]
Lebron needs to win the next two years..