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Lebron vs Hakeem.
List of all their accolades:
..........................LeBron.................Hakeem..............
MVP........................4.........................1..................
FMVP......................1..........................2.................
CHAMP....................1..........................2.................
1st All-NBA..............7..........................6.................
1st All-Defensive.......5..........................5.................
ROTY.....................Yes.......................No................
DPOY......................0..........................2.................
Best Player...........4+ years................2 years.............
All-Star....................9........................12.................
All-Star MVP.............2.........................0..................
POTM.....................25........................5..................
....................................STATS...............................
PPG.......................27.6.....................21.8...............
RPG........................7.3......................11.1..............
APG........................6.9.......................2.5...............
SPG........................1.7.......................1.7...............
BPG........................0.8........................3.1..............
TS%......................57.5%...................55.3%...........
eFG%.....................52.4%...................51.3%...........
WS/48....................24.1.....................17.7..............
PER........................27.6.....................23.6..............
What say you? I think LeBron already has a very strong case..... and i think if he gets another FMVP/Championship this season then its really not that debatable anymore...
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Yes, Lebron goes past Hakeem easily if the he wins the Finals MVP this season. You care way too much about his legacy though
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
I think if LBJ wins this year and take FMVP he gets the nod but Hakeem right now
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Only a matter of time really.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Jlamb47]I think if LBJ wins this year and take FMVP he gets the nod but Hakeem right now[/QUOTE]
This.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
They play completely different positions and I don't think they can really be compared.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
A strong case for what exactly? Hakeem was a better offensive player and a much better defensive player at the end of the day.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]List of all their accolades:
..........................LeBron.................Hakeem..............
MVP........................4.........................1..................
FMVP......................1..........................2.................
CHAMP....................1..........................2.................
1st All-NBA..............7..........................6.................
1st All-Defensive.......5..........................5.................
ROTY.....................Yes.......................No................
DPOY......................0..........................2.................
Best Player...........[B]2 years[/B]................2 years.............
All-Star....................9........................12.................
All-Star MVP.............2.........................0..................
POTM.....................25........................5..................
....................................STATS...............................
PPG.......................27.6.....................21.8...............
RPG........................7.3......................11.1..............
APG........................6.9.......................2.5...............
SPG........................1.7.......................1.7...............
BPG........................0.8........................3.1..............
TS%......................57.5%...................55.3%...........
eFG%.....................52.4%...................51.3%...........
WS/48....................24.1.....................17.7..............
PER........................27.6.....................23.6..............
[/QUOTE]
I corrected the bolded, you made a mistake.
And lol@POTM, WS/48, TS%, PER. They have absolutely no value in comparing players, absolutely zero.
You gotta look at Hakeem's team's, he had a real contending roster for like three-four years through-out his career. Still has two rings, outplayed the second most dominant force in the paint ever in shaq in the finals, outplayed ewing in other finals.
There's no case for lebron yet, unless you care about mvp's, ts%, PER.
If you care about things that actually have value and quality of the game without a second ring Lebron has no case.
And if that's lebron's peak he'll probably won't reach hakeem's peak. I don't think that peak is something that should be very valuable in comparing players too, but you seem to adore that idea, so just throwing it out there
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
They can't be compared, but there's no way Lebron can guard against the Dream Shake. Nobody could.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
......................................LeBron.................Hakeem..............
Cracking Under Pressure ....... 197.................... 0 ...................
chokes .............................. 376....................0 ....................
tough mentality ..................2/10 ...................10/10................
Year Player .......... Team .......... P R A B S
1987 Olajuwon, Hakeem Houston 38 17 06 12 07*
1990 Olajuwon, Hakeem Houston 29 18 10 12 05
1992 Olajuwon, Hakeem Houston 19 13 06 05 05
1993 Robinson, David San Antonio 29 05 05 10 05
1993 Coleman, Derek New Jersey 21 10 07 05 07
1993 Olajuwon, Hakeem Houston 33 13 05 05 05
1993 Olajuwon, Hakeem Houston 24 19 06 05 05
1993 Olajuwon, Hakeem Houston 34 10 05 08 05
1995 Divac, Vlade LA Lakers 19 12 08 05 05
2001 Tinsley,Jamaal Indiana 12 09 15 05 06
2003 Kirilenko,Andrei Utah 19 05 07 05 08
2003 Kirilenko,Andrei Utah 10 12 06 05 06
2004 Camby,Marcus Denver 08 11 05 08 05
2006 Kirilenko,Andrei Utah 14 08 09 07 06
2012 Batum, Nicolas Portland 11 10 05 05 05
* Stats before 1990 are not listed. also, Blocks and Steals where not kept before 1972
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=LikeABosh]Yes, Lebron goes past Hakeem easily if the he wins the Finals MVP this season. You care way too much about his legacy though[/QUOTE]
Hm... just thought i would demonstrate this after seeing so many posters here thinking the Lebron vs Hakeem comparison is futile.... thats all...
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Rubio2Gasol]A strong case for what exactly? Hakeem was a better offensive player and a much better defensive player at the end of the day.[/QUOTE]
Offensive player? No... just no..
Defensive player? Yes...
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
......................................LeBron...... ...........Hakeem..............
clutch ....................... non-existent ...............clutch ..............
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Hakeem had NOBODY, and wild-shooting, 33 year old Clyde Drexler on his. While Hakeem was surrounded by role-players (and Clyde),
Lebron had TWO superstar.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]Offensive player? No... just no..
Defensive player? Yes...[/QUOTE]
He's a center, based on what he's doing and his abilities, he was a dominant force offensively. And still was best defensive player for x years in a row while doing that.
If anything, Hakeem is underrated, he has a case for being the best center ever
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Hakeem says only in his dreams
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
If I had to pick a center, I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him.
-Michael Jordan
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Quintilianus]I corrected the bolded, you made a mistake.
And lol@POTM, WS/48, TS%, PER. They have absolutely no value in comparing players, absolutely zero.
You gotta look at Hakeem's team's, he had a real contending roster for like three-four years through-out his career. Still has two rings, outplayed the second most dominant force in the paint ever in shaq in the finals, outplayed ewing in other finals.
There's no case for lebron yet, unless you care about mvp's, ts%, PER.
If you care about things that actually have value and quality of the game without a second ring Lebron has no case.
And if that's lebron's peak he'll probably won't reach hakeem's peak. I don't think that peak is something that should be very valuable in comparing players too, but you seem to adore that idea, so just throwing it out there[/QUOTE]
Nah, from what i have seen these last 4 years Lebron was easily the most productive/dominant/impactful player and please notice the "+" hinting at the probability of him being the best player for more years in the upcoming seasons aswell.... Lebron was unquestionably the best player in the world for at least 2 years, but only because he won the championship.... in reality he was that same dominant/productive/impactful player for many more years, he just didnt have the benefits of greater supporting cast....
Unlike Hakeem, Lebron was/is the most dominant player in the world.... in the universe.... Lebron didnt need for the actual best player in the world to take a vacation from the league (Michael Jordan) to be the best player in the NBA or win a championship........ Not trying to downplay Hakeem, but it is very true that its unlikely Hakeem would have been the best player or even won a championship if the actual best player in the world didnt take the vacation.... If Michael Jordan was around those 2 years we wouldnt be having this conversation right now....
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=zizozain]......................................LeBron.................Hakeem..............
Cracking Under Pressure ....... 197.................... 0 ...................
chokes .............................. 376....................0 ....................
tough mentality ..................2/10 ...................10/10................
[/QUOTE]
wow... excellent facts.... you win my friend.... :rolleyes:
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[URL="http://youtu.be/CmLR_VgbqAA"]http://youtu.be/CmLR_VgbqAA[/URL]
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=zizozain]Hakeem had NOBODY, and wild-shooting, 33 year old Clyde Drexler on his. While Hakeem was surrounded by role-players (and Clyde),
Lebron had TWO superstar.[/QUOTE]
This isn't true - Hakeem some really fantastic role players around him (as does Lebron in addition to the 2 superstars).....even in the years before he won.
But it's pretty clear he was a better offensive player, a more unstoppable scorer, a more versatile scorer, and someone good enough to impact the game off the ball when he needed to.
Add to that the huge defensive gap - and I think that about settles it
Of course the 25 Player of the Week awards for James is a quite compelling argument.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Easily LeBron. Only nostalgia would convince anyone otherwise. Besides Jordan, there's never been a player as good as LeBron 2009-present. Just the truth.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=fpliii]:facepalm[/QUOTE]
I rest my case... you obviously have nothing to come with except disagreement with what is infront of your eyes...
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
I've probably got Hakeem higher on my all time list than others (I usually see him 10th, but I've got him 7th with a strong case to be higher). Hakeem is the best all round center I've ever seen in terms of combined offense and defense. If he had the teams that the other great centers had, we could be looking at more championships and finals MVPs, which is what superficially counts in the eyes of many casual viewers.
In my eyes, LeBron is not close to Hakeem at the moment. However, this period of dominance LeBron is displaying is something I've only see a handful of other players do. He's on the right track, that's for sure.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]List of all their accolades:
..........................LeBron.................Hakeem..............
MVP........................4.........................1..................
FMVP......................1..........................2.................
CHAMP....................1..........................2.................
1st All-NBA..............7..........................6.................
1st All-Defensive.......5..........................5.................
ROTY.....................Yes.......................No................
DPOY......................0..........................2.................
Best Player...........4+ years................2 years.............
All-Star....................9........................12.................
All-Star MVP.............2.........................0..................
POTM.....................25........................5..................
....................................STATS...............................
PPG.......................27.6.....................21.8...............
RPG........................7.3......................11.1..............
APG........................6.9.......................2.5...............
SPG........................1.7.......................1.7...............
BPG........................0.8........................3.1..............
TS%......................57.5%...................55.3%...........
eFG%.....................52.4%...................51.3%...........
WS/48....................24.1.....................17.7..............
PER........................27.6.....................23.6..............
What say you? I think LeBron already has a very strong case..... and i think if he gets another FMVP/Championship this season then its really not that debatable anymore...[/QUOTE]
The 'best player' part is plain stupid it depends on the players from that particular era. If LeBron played in the 90s he wouldn't be the best player. He would be the runner up to the-one-we-all-know.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=2010splash]Easily LeBron. Only nostalgia would convince anyone otherwise. Besides Jordan, there's never been a player as good as LeBron 2009-present. Just the truth.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion[/url]
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
What has Hakeem ever done that LeBron hasn't?
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]Nah, from what i have seen these last 4 years Lebron was easily the most productive/dominant/impactful player and please notice the "+" hinting at the probability of him being the best player for more years in the upcoming seasons aswell.... Lebron was unquestionably the best player in the world for at least 2 years, but only because he won the championship.... in reality he was that same dominant/productive/impactful player for many more years, he just didnt have the benefits of greater supporting cast....
Unlike Hakeem, Lebron was/is the most dominant player in the world.... in the universe.... Lebron didnt need for the actual best player in the world to take a vacation from the league (Michael Jordan) to be the best player in the NBA or win a championship........ Not trying to downplay Hakeem, but it is very true that its unlikely Hakeem would have been the best player or even won a championship if the actual best player in the world didnt take the vacation.... If Michael Jordan was around those 2 years we wouldnt be having this conversation right now....[/QUOTE]
:facepalm same can be said for Lebron if he was in that era
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]Nah, from what i have seen these last 4 years Lebron was easily the most productive/dominant/impactful player and please notice the "+" hinting at the probability of him being the best player for more years in the upcoming seasons aswell.... Lebron was unquestionably the best player in the world for at least 2 years, but only because he won the championship.... in reality he was that same dominant/productive/impactful player for many more years, he just didnt have the benefits of greater supporting cast....
Unlike Hakeem, Lebron was/is the most dominant player in the world.... in the universe.... Lebron didnt need for the actual best player in the world to take a vacation from the league (Michael Jordan) to be the best player in the NBA or win a championship........ Not trying to downplay Hakeem, but it is very true that its unlikely Hakeem would have been the best player or even won a championship if the actual best player in the world didnt take the vacation....[/QUOTE]
He wasn't, best player in the world doesn't quit on his team.... two years in a row. In no universe is that a dominant player or a best player. There's no case besides statistics for that crazy claim. Or dickriding, but I'm not a type of person to downplay a human just because he likes a player more than a team. Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anybody on this site, i'm just naming possibilities
Wasn't former MVP rose injured in LeBron's PO run? And the most dominant defensive force and center in the league dwight howard? Or the whole knicks team banged up as sh*t? Or this year there's no top 3 player kobe, no rose, no rondo, no granger, no amare (maybe, dunno will he play in PO) and many more great players that aren't all-stars but are crucial to their teams? C'mon dude, it's not like this isn't the weakest league in yeaaars. And I do realize that's not LeBron's fault, I don't nitpick him for that, but when you compare Hakeem's path to his both championships and LeBron's to his both(as he's 60% likely to win this year, i'll say both) it's not even close.
Horry has called hakeem the best center ever, MJ has done it, Shaq has done it, there's something to that man
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]List of all their accolades:
..........................LeBron.................Hakeem..............
MVP........................4.........................1..................
FMVP......................1..........................2.................
CHAMP....................1..........................2.................
1st All-NBA..............7..........................6.................
1st All-Defensive.......5..........................5.................
ROTY.....................Yes.......................No................
DPOY......................0..........................2.................
Best Player...........4+ years................2 years.............
All-Star....................9........................12.................
All-Star MVP.............2.........................0..................
POTM.....................25........................5..................
....................................STATS...............................
PPG.......................27.6.....................21.8...............
RPG........................7.3......................11.1..............
APG........................6.9.......................2.5...............
SPG........................1.7.......................1.7...............
BPG........................0.8........................3.1..............
TS%......................57.5%...................55.3%...........
eFG%.....................52.4%...................51.3%...........
WS/48....................24.1.....................17.7..............
PER........................27.6.....................23.6..............
What say you? I think LeBron already has a very strong case..... and i think if he gets another FMVP/Championship this season then its really not that debatable anymore...[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/14kxs74.png[/IMG]
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]I rest my case... you obviously have nothing to come with except disagreement with what is infront of your eyes...[/QUOTE]
It's a subjective ranking, that's not why I facepalmed. The problem is, if you are using the table in your OP to make this determination, quite a few of your criteria are flawed:
1st All-NBA - 90s centers are far more competitive than current forwards; in addition, Hakeem had to fight for only one spot on the first team (as opposed to the 2 forward spots)
1st All-Defensive - same as above
ROTY - I don't know why you'd mention this
All-Star MVP - same
POTM - there are two awards now, while there was only one for most (all?) of Hakeem's career
WS/48 - highly flawed box score metric
PER - I'm not going to get into this again
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=pauk]Offensive player? No... just no..
[/QUOTE]
The most fundamentally sound center of all time whose arsenal of moves is unrivaled by pretty much anyone not named MJ is worse than a forward with the aesthetics of a tractor? Sure.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Raymone]What has Hakeem ever done that LeBron hasn't?[/QUOTE]
Well I know something Hakeem hasn't accomplished that LeBron has, pile up a bunch of haters.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Kovach]The most fundamentally sound center of all time whose arsenal of moves is unrivaled by pretty much anyone not named MJ is worse than a forward with the [B]aesthetics of a tractor[/B]? Sure.[/QUOTE]
I laughed way too hard at this :oldlol: :oldlol:
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
If LeBron played in the 90s, do you really think he would've been stopped by Jordan and the Bulls? What team in history could stop LeBron?
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Quintilianus]He wasn't, best player in the world doesn't quit on his team.... two years in a row. In no universe is that a dominant player or a best player. There's no case besides statistics for that crazy claim. Or dickriding, but I'm not a type of person to downplay a human just because he likes a player more than a team. Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anybody on this site, i'm just naming possibilities
Wasn't former MVP rose injured in LeBron's PO run? And the most dominant defensive force and center in the league dwight howard? Or the whole knicks team banged up as sh*t? Or this year there's no top 3 player kobe, no rose, no rondo, no granger, no amare (maybe, dunno will he play in PO) and many more great players that aren't all-stars but are crucial to their teams? C'mon dude, it's not like this isn't the weakest league in yeaaars. And I do realize that's not LeBron's fault, I don't nitpick him for that, but when you compare Hakeem's path to his both championships and LeBron's to his both(as he's 60% likely to win this year, i'll say both) it's not even close.
Horry has called hakeem the best center ever, MJ has done it, Shaq has done it, there's something to that man[/QUOTE]
Whats up with these all new trolls.
and not just kobe stans there are a lot of new lebron stans too.
ISH has become the ultimate troll forum.There really is no thread that anyone can discuss anything without these trolls.
Interestingly enough most of these newcomers make me question the average age.How hard is it to put two words together.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Raymone]What has Hakeem ever done that LeBron hasn't?[/QUOTE]
Lead a team to the championship as the 6th seed playing on the road the whole way through.
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Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=lebeast666]Well I know something Hakeem hasn't accomplished that LeBron has, pile up a bunch of haters.[/QUOTE]
He had them once.