I just bet 7k on the Heat beating the Bulls

[QUOTE=Jackass18] RBA, how would you feel if James stayed in Cleveland, but they added Wade and Bosh and were able to win 3 titles in a row?[/QUOTE]
As a fan of a city that has been title deprived for 50 years, I would have been happy. As a fan of the NBA, I would have been disappointed.

And, previous greats who stuck it out with franchises and overcame seemingly unsurmountable obstacles to finally reach the ring are not 'lucky'... The journey is partially what makes them be remembered so fondly. The Spurs never had it easy... Those teams were great and became title contenders because of Tim Duncan.

That is sort of the whole point, here. I expected better from these guys... I didn't think they needed to team up to win.

[QUOTE=Dolphin]I just don't get why this is a bad thing at all.....people who complain about them coming together remind me of parents who's kids are in little league and complain to the commissioner that a certain 6' kid shouldn't be allowed to pitch because he's that good.

What ever happened to people looking up at the giant(s) and trying to slay him or them?

People who want nothing but parity (a bit of both is fine for me) are the people who think giving kids participation ribbons (lol) for grade school track meets or stickers for getting 60% on a test is a must. They don't want to instill into people that there are those better than you and that you need to rise to the occasion to get to the top or that you aren't the best at something and you need to try harder to succeed.

And no, turning it around by saying "Well Lebron didn't rise to the occasion either, he took the easy way out" isn't the same. He found a way to better himself. it doesn't matter how he did it unless he cheated (I mean really cheated, not him talking to Bosh or Wade earlier than he should have lol). Now it's on the others to find a way to climb to the mountain top. They don't deserve anyone's pity.[/QUOTE]

"Now it's on others to climb to the mountain top." dude.. what exactly is climbing the mountain in your eyes? Jordan climbed the mountain. Lebron Wade and Bosh hopped on the elevator.

[QUOTE=joe]"Now it's on others to climb to the mountain top." dude.. what exactly is climbing the mountain in your eyes? Jordan climbed the mountain. Lebron Wade and Bosh hopped on the elevator.[/QUOTE]
The 'mountain top' has become making a team so completely unbeatable that you can coast to a title, I guess. Because, there has been very little climbing, here.

It is an insult to the 80s Celtics, 80s Pistons, 90s Bulls, etc. to say that this Heat team has overcome the obstacles that they had to overcome. Those guys stuck it out and made it work... These guys took the path of least resistance.

looks like i missed out on a classic thread...reading now

[QUOTE=joe]"Now it's on others to climb to the mountain top." dude.. what exactly is climbing the mountain in your eyes? Jordan climbed the mountain. Lebron Wade and Bosh hopped on the elevator.[/QUOTE]

There is more than one path to get to the top. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

[QUOTE=Dolphin]There is more than one path to get to the top. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.[/QUOTE]
We will deal with it... By saying that, in no way, shape, or form is this title as meaningful for these guys as it could have been had they not formed superfriends team.

It is really that simple. There is nothing that can be done about the colluding to form this thing, now. But, history will be the judge... And I doubt anyone will magically forget how this was done.

The AAU-ification of the NBA has to stop.

[QUOTE=GP_20]What exactly do you want to know?[/QUOTE]

You're gonna start threads regarding NFL betting (if there's a new season) right?

If you do, please PM me so I see the thread.

I really want to get into this.

Also, where can I find some 'NFL betting for dummies 101' online?

[QUOTE=ShannonElements]Can't believe this shit is getting hashed out again. I thought the negative reaction was over-the-top then and I think it's still over-the-top now. If you went based only on peoples' hateful posts you'd think Lebron was a rapist or something.:lol[/QUOTE]
This has nothing to do with the way James conducted his free agency. This is a conversation about how this potentially 'great' team differs from those before it and how that difference may impact the way that a title would be viewed.

It is completely appropriate now, because the Heat are on the verge of beating their third consecutive playoff opponent 4-1. They have yet to be challenged in these playoffs... And it just doesn't seem right to a lot of us.

Nothing to do with love or hatred for LeBron James... Nothing to do with the Cleveland Cavaliers... It is just a historical discussion about this current run for the Heat and I'm not sure how people can so willingly dismiss such glaring factors that have led to this playoff dominance.

[QUOTE=ShannonElements]Oh. I didn't read all of it. Just saw giant walls of text with "Lebron WAAAAAH! Wade WAAAAAAAH! :cry: " etc. and jumped to conclusions. My bad.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I sort of figured that is what happened... Which is why I explained further. Go back a few pages and tell us what you think. I'm truly interested.

We can actually have a meaningful discussion down here on this topic without a bunch of 'umad' posts and incessant trolling. I'm not even able to discuss the Heat on the main board, because I am a Cleveland sports fan. People just automatically jump to conclusions about motives.

Yeah, cherish this topic while you can. Best basketball discussion I've seen in a while.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The 'mountain top' has become making a team so completely unbeatable that you can coast to a title, I guess. Because, there has been very little climbing, here. [/QUOTE]
So they're unbeatable now? They're many stacked teams in nba history that can beat this team.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]
It is an insult to the 80s Celtics, 80s Pistons, 90s Bulls, etc. to say that this Heat team has overcome the obstacles that they had to overcome. Those guys stuck it out and made it work... These guys took the path of least resistance. [/QUOTE]
Many said Lebron would've been a better fit with the Bulls and they'd have been a more complete team so wouldn't that have been the path of least resistance?

The Bulls being the least path of resistance is purely speculation.

[QUOTE=KOLBCTEW]So they're unbeatable now? They're many stacked teams in nba history that can beat this team.

[B]Many said Lebron would've been a better fit with the Bulls and they'd have been a more complete team so wouldn't that have been the path of least resistance[/B]?[/QUOTE]

I honestly don't think anyone expected Miami to come away with the top free agent and another top 5. People were shocked to see James go to Miami.

How were the Bulls a better option? Sure were not as weak at the 1-5 spot but we had just employed a rookie head coach and our best player was a 2nd year PG. People had us at very best a 6 seed before the season tipped off.

[QUOTE=KOLBCTEW]So they're unbeatable now? They're many stacked teams in nba history that can beat this team.

Many said Lebron would've been a better fit with the Bulls and they'd have been a more complete team so wouldn't that have been the path of least resistance?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe that the Bulls would have been the path of least resistance... No. For one, I'm totally unsure how James and Rose would co-exist. They would have a lot of the same problems offensively that the Heat have had in terms of getting both Wade and James to play at a high level at the same time instead of just taking turns isolating...

Except, Rose isn't as good as Wade.

It is my personal opinion that, in terms of legacy, James was best off staying in Cleveland or going to the Knicks, Nets or Clips.

Chicago and Miami (with Bosh/Wade) were already going to be title contenders for years to come. Neither team really [I]needed [/I]James to compete for a title.

So, to answer your question... I think going to the place that had the two all-stars already was the path of least resistance. But, he would have also taken some heat (pun intended) for going to the Bulls.

I believe that James is/was a great enough player not to need to jump on that kind of ridiculously stacked team. The Knicks would have been a great option, because I think he and Amar'e would work really well together and James would be the unquestioned catalyst at all times.

In terms of pure legacy, nothing will ever be as impactful as winning a title in Cleveland would have been.

[QUOTE=ShannonElements]Yeah, I don't personally think it's a big deal. At least not a big a deal as some people make it out to be. I mean, I can understand how some people view it as the "easy way out", but if I had the same sort of opportunity with my work(work with friends, better city and climate, better opportunity of achieving my goals, etc.) I'd take it in a heartbeat without looking back and I think most people would as well. I think sometimes we forget that these guys are human beings.

While other combinations of great players have come together via more traditional methods(draft, trades, etc.) there's more than one way to skin a cat. The end result is the same. By the way, who's skinning cats?[/QUOTE]
See, I just don't see it that way. You are basically saying that 'a ring is a ring.' To me, the journey is what makes a great player so great and a great team so great. What obstacles were overcome? What finally put you over the hump? Did the team grow together to truly create greatness? Was the whole greater than its collective pieces?

I mean, at what point would it be an unfair situation... If ever? What if Howard and CP3 were to join the Heat this offseason (probably can't happen, but just speculating)?

The lineup would be:

Paul
Wade
James
Bosh
Howard

Would a ring with that team mean as much as a ring with a starting lineup that featured the likes of BJ Armstrong and Bill Cartwright? There has to come a point where the competitive imbalance begins to take away from the achievement... And I think that the Heat are already there and it is only going to get worse unless a hard cap is implemented.

This is the first year for these guys. Imagine when they have the MLE to work with... And they begin making moves to upgrade even more.


I don't see the comparison to your work, because your position surely isn't about entertainment with a league that needs a level of parity to produce a competitive product. The NBA is all about entertainment and, for me, that entertainment consists of seeing great players and great teams competing against one another on the highest level, not one team filling up on all of the best players and completely cruising to a championship.

But, hey... That is just my opinion.