Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

First off: he gets a lot of cheap calls because of his flailing limbs and sht.

But last year, he averaged 28.0ppg on 49.6/38.7/86.0 (61%TS) with 7.6 free throws per game.

:confusedshrug:

Only people who are insecure about their favorite player. In other words Lebron, Kobe or Melo fans. :lol

People are just overreacting to the latest Melo hot streak and bashing Durant because they are "scoring rivals".

[QUOTE=Graviton]People are just overreacting to the latest Melo hot streak and bashing Durant because they are "scoring rivals".[/QUOTE]

This.

[QUOTE=mjokc]Only people who are insecure about their favorite player. In other words Lebron, Kobe or Melo fans. :lol[/QUOTE]

I'm a Lebron fan, but I'm not overly unrealistic.

I think you're looking for Lebron, Kobe or Melo [B]stans[/B].

[QUOTE=mjokc]Only people who are insecure about their favorite player. In other words Lebron, Kobe or Melo fans. :lol[/QUOTE]


lebron is so much better than Durant his "stans" shouldn't have to worry about Durant...Melo and Kobe stans are another story considering Durant is better than both of them:lol

[QUOTE=esiotrot]I'm a Lebron fan, but I'm not overly unrealistic.

I think you're looking for Lebron, Kobe or Melo [B]stans[/B].[/QUOTE]

Yeah sorry, that was a bad generalization on my part. I know there are dumb KD stans too.

[QUOTE=Hoopz2332]lebron is so much better than Durant his "stans" shouldn't have to worry about Durant...Melo and Kobe stans are another story considering Durant is better than both of them:lol[/QUOTE]

I agree that Lebron is better, but that doesn't mean that Lebron stans aren't insecure if you DARE say that KD is better at something than Lebron.

[QUOTE=mjokc]Yeah sorry, that was a bad generalization on my part. I know there are dumb KD stans too.[/QUOTE]

The funny this is, in my six months of lurking, I've only seen one Durant stan (28renyoy/Joyner). And I haven't seen any Melo stans. They're usually just New York Knicks fans enthusiastic about their team.

Probably, but unfortunately most people are just stupid on here.

Durant goes to the line less than 1 more time than the likes of Kobe and Melo.

Durant shoots 9.4 free throws per game.

Kobe shoots 7.7 and Melo shoots 7.6

So everyone think about that for a second. That means that Durant, on average, draws a little less than 1 more shooting foul per game than comparable scorers. Harden goes to the line more often. Drawing fouls is part of being a great scorer.

Love him or hate him, I think anyone without a huge bias would at least admit he's really good a drawing fouls. So I don't think it's that unreasonable for a guy like Durant to go to the free throw line roughly 1 more time per game than some of the other elite scorers in the league.

I know, logic just sucks.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Probably, but unfortunately most people are just stupid on here.

Durant goes to the line less than 1 more time than the likes of Kobe and Melo.

Durant shoots 9.4 free throws per game.

Kobe shoots 7.7 and Melo shoots 7.6

So everyone think about that for a second. That means that Durant, on average, draws a little less than 1 more shooting foul per game than comparable scorers. Harden goes to the line more often. Drawing fouls is part of being a great scorer.

Love him or hate him, I think anyone without a huge bias would at least admit he's really good a drawing fouls. So I don't think it's that unreasonable for a guy like Durant to go to the free throw line roughly 1 more time per game than some of the other elite scorers in the league.

I know, logic just sucks.[/QUOTE]

Would rep. People are so ****ing stupid. Apparently Durant only scores like he does because of free throws, but Kobe and Melo, who only go to the line 1 time less and that's irrelevant. ISH is so ****ing retarded.. :facepalm

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Probably, but unfortunately most people are just stupid on here.

Durant goes to the line [B]less than 1 more time[/B] than the likes of Kobe and Melo.

Durant shoots 9.4 free throws per game.

Kobe shoots 7.7 and Melo shoots 7.6

So everyone think about that for a second. That means that Durant, on average, draws a little less than 1 more shooting foul per game than comparable scorers. Harden goes to the line more often. Drawing fouls is part of being a great scorer.

Love him or hate him, I think anyone without a huge bias would at least admit he's really good a drawing fouls. So I don't think it's that unreasonable for a guy like Durant to go to the free throw line roughly 1 more time per game than some of the other elite scorers in the league.

I know, logic just sucks.[/QUOTE]
9.4 - 7.7 = 1.7

[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]9.4 - 7.7 = 1.7[/QUOTE]

And you get two free throws per every trip to the line. :confusedshrug:

Hence roughly 1 more trip to the free throw line.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]And you get two free throws per every trip to the line. :confusedshrug:

Hence roughly 1 more trip to the free throw line.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/itrPkSnhPgffv.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]9.4 - 7.7 = 1.7[/QUOTE]
HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR :facepalm

[QUOTE=mjokc]Yeah sorry, that was a bad generalization on my part. I know there are dumb KD stans too.[/QUOTE]

The funny this is, I've only seen one Durant stan (28renyoy/joyner) and most Melo 'stans' are just really optimistic Knicks fans.

[QUOTE=Graviton]People are just overreacting to the latest Melo hot streak and bashing Durant because they are "scoring rivals".[/QUOTE]


DURANT IS REFS's LOVER,PLAIN & SIMPLE........:banana:
he wiill never able plays in 80s-90s beaucse he is so soft :rockon:

Na ppl don't believe that they just annoyed that he gets the whistle a little too often, dude can shoot the lights out tho

Maybe people who wear blindfolds..

Maybe it's HOW he gets to the line and not HOW MANY times.

Or in the case of Durant both.

If you watch OKC you can see that a lot of fouls that Durant draws are phantom calls or weak ass fouls.

Him going to the line a lot raises his FG% (when you miss a shot and you're fouled it doesn't count as a missed field goal attempt) and also results in defenders not being able to pressure him because they know refs will call a foul even if they breathe on him.

I don't need statistical evidence. I watch games and I know Durant gets most phantom fouls in the league,and BY FAR.

People blame him because he is smart and takes advantage of the bad refeering. Doesn't matter what they say though, still the best scorer today.

[QUOTE=Segatti]People blame him because he is smart and takes advantage of the bad refeering. Doesn't matter what they say though, still the best scorer today.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter what you say, scoring off bad refereeing doesn't make you the best scorer today, it makes you babied by the league and is covering up flaws.

Durant is a very good scorer, but some of the calls he gets are terrible. If he got treated like LeBron he wouldn't be the league leader in points. It comes down to the body types. If LeBron gets legitimately fouled on the arm, he's still making the shot because he's so strong. With KD he's missing the shot, and getting FT's.

[QUOTE=Clutch]If you watch OKC you can see that a lot of fouls that Durant draws are phantom calls or weak ass fouls.

Him going to the line a lot raises his FG% (when you miss a shot and you're fouled it doesn't count as a missed field goal attempt) and also results in defenders not being able to pressure him because they know refs will call a foul even if they breathe on him.

[B]I don't need statistical evidence[/B]. I watch games and I know Durant gets most phantom fouls in the league,and BY FAR.[/QUOTE]

:applause: Keep telling yourself that.

Durant has taken 722 free throws on 1380 field goal attempts, or .[B]523[/B] free throws per field goal attempt.

Carmelo has taken 479 free throws on 1387 field goal attempts, or [B].345[/B] free throws per field goal attempt.

Kobe has taken 581 free throws on 1529 field goal attempts, or [B].377[/B] free thows per field goal attempt.

Lebron has taken 513 free throw on 1316 field goal attempts, or [B].389[/B] free throws per field goal attempt.



Of course Durant is an amazing player, but to say that he is not aided by free throws is ludicrous.

[QUOTE=mjokc]Only people who are insecure about their favorite player. In other words Lebron, Kobe or Melo fans. :lol[/QUOTE]



Nailed it in the first post.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Durant has taken 722 free throws on 1380 field goal attempts, or .[B]523[/B] free throws per field goal attempt.

Carmelo has taken 479 free throws on 1387 field goal attempts, or [B].345[/B] free throws per field goal attempt.

Kobe has taken 581 free throws on 1529 field goal attempts, or [B].377[/B] free thows per field goal attempt.

Lebron has taken 513 free throw on 1316 field goal attempts, or [B].389[/B] free throws per field goal attempt.



Of course Durant is an amazing player, but to say that he is not aided by free throws is ludicrous.[/QUOTE]
:applause:

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Probably, but unfortunately most people are just stupid on here.

Durant goes to the line less than 1 more time than the likes of Kobe and Melo.

Durant shoots 9.4 free throws per game.

Kobe shoots 7.7 and Melo shoots 7.6[/QUOTE]
Melo 22fga, Durant 17.9fga. You're 100% right, most people are just stupid here, they don't even know how to use stats correctly.

For your education:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8423412&postcount=29[/url]

[QUOTE=ThatsGame]Doesn't matter what you say, scoring off bad refereeing doesn't make you the best scorer today, it makes you babied by the league and is covering up flaws.[/QUOTE]
Why did Durant still dominant last season then while averging 7.6 fts

You shouldn't take what you read on here that serious half the time. Many of the posters just say things for attention. Nobody really does anything to ban the trolls. You just have to follow and listen to the quality posters on here like DMAVS41.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]And you get two free throws per every trip to the line. :confusedshrug:

Hence roughly 1 more trip to the free throw line.[/QUOTE]
My bad i misinterpreted what you said. I agree with your post though.

Durant is obviously a great scorer regardless. He's an unbelievable shooter from everywhere, and it's impossible to contest his shot since he's 6'10" with the arms of a seven footer, which also makes him a very good finisher. He moves well without the ball, and can create his own shot off the dribble.



[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Probably, but unfortunately most people are just stupid on here.

Durant goes to the line less than 1 more time than the likes of Kobe and Melo.

Durant shoots 9.4 free throws per game.

Kobe shoots 7.7 and Melo shoots 7.6[/QUOTE]

You can't just post FTA without FGA. Durant attempts just 17.9 FGA while Melo takes 22 and Kobe takes 20.4, meaning Durant gets to the line at a much higher rate than any of them.

Durant averages a free throw attempt for every 1.91 FGA. Melo averages a FTA for every 2.9 FGA and Kobe averages a free throw attempt for every 2.63 FGA.

To put these numbers in perspective, Melo has 7 more total FGA all season and Durant has 243 more free throws. While Kobe has 149 more total FGA than Durant, and Durant has 141 more free throws.

I don't care what you personally interpret these numbers, just don't pretend Melo and Kobe get to the line at a comparable rate, because it's simply not true.

Personally, I think Durant's FTA this year are excessive. Last season, he attempted a free throw for every 2.59 FGA, now it's a FT for every 1.91 FGA as I mentioned before.

And he's not attempting more shots at the rim either.

2012
At Rim: 4.2 FGA
3-10 feet: 3.1 FGA

2013
At Rim: 4.0 FGA
3-10 feet: 3.0 FGA

That's why his TS% has jumped from 61% last season to 64% this season while his eFG% has remained roughly the same at just over 55% this season vs just under last season.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Durant is obviously a great scorer regardless. He's an unbelievable shooter from everywhere, and it's impossible to contest his shot since he's 6'10" with the arms of a seven footer, which also makes him a very good finisher. He moves well without the ball, and can create his own shot off the dribble.





You can't just post FTA without FGA. Durant attempts just 17.9 FGA while Melo takes 22 and Kobe takes 20.4, meaning Durant gets to the line at a much higher rate than any of them.

Durant averages a free throw attempt for every 1.91 FGA. Melo averages a FTA for every 2.9 FGA and Kobe averages a free throw attempt for every 2.63 FGA.

To put these numbers in perspective, Melo has 7 more total FGA all season and Durant has 243 more free throws. While Kobe has 149 more total FGA than Durant, and Durant has 141 more free throws.

I don't care what you personally interpret these numbers, just don't pretend Melo and Kobe get to the line at a comparable rate, because it's simply not true.

Personally, I think Durant's FTA this year are excessive. Last season, he attempted a free throw for every 2.59 FGA, now it's a FT for every 1.91 FGA as I mentioned before.

And he's not attempting more shots at the rim either.

2012
At Rim: 4.2 FGA
3-10 feet: 3.1 FGA

2013
At Rim: 4.0 FGA
3-10 feet: 3.0 FGA

That's why his TS% has jumped from 61% last season to 64% this season while his eFG% has remained roughly the same at just over 55% this season vs just under last season.[/QUOTE]

/thread

The point is that:

- He really should have much less FTAs then he does get, not the discrepancy between him and Melo. That would decrease not only his PPG but also TS%.

- Those FTA that should've been missed FGA also unfairly boost his TS% and FG% which gives him god-like efficiency

- Melo should get WAY more FTA, I mean he gets hacked on pretty much half his post-ups and sometimes won't even get a call when he tips it back in
-

Stat sheet freaks. Does he get about 30ppg? enough said.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Durant is obviously a great scorer regardless. He's an unbelievable shooter from everywhere, and it's impossible to contest his shot since he's 6'10" with the arms of a seven footer, which also makes him a very good finisher. He moves well without the ball, and can create his own shot off the dribble.





You can't just post FTA without FGA. Durant attempts just 17.9 FGA while Melo takes 22 and Kobe takes 20.4, meaning Durant gets to the line at a much higher rate than any of them.

Durant averages a free throw attempt for every 1.91 FGA. Melo averages a FTA for every 2.9 FGA and Kobe averages a free throw attempt for every 2.63 FGA.

To put these numbers in perspective, Melo has 7 more total FGA all season and Durant has 243 more free throws. While Kobe has 149 more total FGA than Durant, and Durant has 141 more free throws.

I don't care what you personally interpret these numbers, just don't pretend Melo and Kobe get to the line at a comparable rate, because it's simply not true.

Personally, I think Durant's FTA this year are excessive. Last season, he attempted a free throw for every 2.59 FGA, now it's a FT for every 1.91 FGA as I mentioned before.

And he's not attempting more shots at the rim either.

2012
At Rim: 4.2 FGA
3-10 feet: 3.1 FGA

2013
At Rim: 4.0 FGA
3-10 feet: 3.0 FGA

That's why his TS% has jumped from 61% last season to 64% this season while his eFG% has remained roughly the same at just over 55% this season vs just under last season.[/QUOTE]

How is that bringing any context to the numbers when all that shows is that Durant is much better at drawing fouls when he shoots. And probably means that Kobe and Melo take a handful of bad shots a game that Durant doesn't...and doesn't have to because of his team. You see....your breakdown isn't really that fair because of the following;

Take Kobe. Well, he takes 1 more 3 per game. So there goes 1 of those extra shots...obviously you can get fouled on a 3, but pretty rare. Down to 19.4 vs 17.9. Now, how many shots a game does Kobe settle for vs Durant not. I'd say Kobe probably takes something around 1 to 2 just bad shots a game that Durant, on average, doesn't take. Now you start to get very close on the shot attempts per game in which the player can realistically get fouled. Then...all you have to do is factor in the simple fact that Durant is easily superior at drawing fouls...hence you get him going to the line roughly 1 more time per game.

Take Melo. Same thing. Melo takes 2 more threes per game. Down to 20 vs 17.9 on that alone. Again, how many bad shots does Melo take a game that Durant doesn't? Probably 1 to 2 again. So now you are at something like 19 vs 17.9. Factor in Durant's superior ability to get to the line and you have the difference...that is very conceivable.

At some point you have to give players credit for what they do well. Harden and Durant are great at drawing fouls...

And those numbers over the course of a season might look big...but they really aren't on a per game basis.

Like I said before...I think Durant's superior ability to draw shooting fouls over Kobe and Carmelo easily leads to an extra trip to the ft line a game.

It never ceases to amaze me how people just can't give credit to certain players for what they do well...instead it has to be about some NBA conspiracy to gift Durant free throws.

I don't know what you think of Harden then. He takes a full shot less than Durant per game and shoots almost 1 more free throw.

It's really quite simple. Durant has better shot selection and shoots less threes. He also settles a little less than both Kobe and Melo...and he's just better at drawing fouls. On threes alone it cuts your fga argument down considerably.

Lol DMAVS Durant gets free throws with little to no contact moreso than any other superstar since MJ, including Wade when he was in his D-Whistle prime and he does that sh.it with less at rim FGA than any of them, includig 100-year old 2013 Kobe Bryant.

The guy gets equally as many FTA as motherfvckn 06 Kobe who attempted 27 (!!) FGA and 6 at rim, as well as 01 Iverson who got hacked hard on his penetrations AND jumpers while obv attempting more FGA from any area on the court.

Durant's gaudy numbers both efficiency and volume wise are stupidly inflated because of Supersupersuperstar treatment. Nikka prolly has nudes of Stern or some sh.it like that.

Dirk in contrast is a jumpshooter who legitimately gets fouled most of the time, since his shot is literally unblockable and sniper-like in accuracy.

And Harden is a bad comparison. He's similar because he's a flopper but he's a statisticians wet dream in terms of shot selection. He drives much much more than KD and looks to actually finish the play more often, plus he's a better flopper and his Eurostep is so deceptive that you have to foul him.

I think KD reffed by normal superstar standards is a 25-28 ppg @ 58-60 TS% player which is still excellent.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]How is that bringing any context to the numbers when all that shows is that Durant is much better at drawing fouls when he shoots.

At some point you have to give players credit for what they do well. Harden and Durant are great at drawing fouls...

And those numbers over the course of a season might look big...but they really aren't on a per game basis.

Like I said before...I think Durant's superior ability to draw shooting fouls over Kobe and Carmelo easily leads to an extra trip to the ft line a game.

It never ceases to amaze me how people just can't give credit to certain players for what they do well...instead it has to be about some NBA conspiracy to gift Durant free throws.

I don't know what you think of Harden then. He takes a full shot less than Durant per game and shoots almost 1 more free throw.

Conspiracy there as well?[/QUOTE]

First of all, don't dodge the fact that you posted deceptive numbers to try to suggest Melo and Kobe got to the line at a comparable rate. I proved that to be false. So lets get that out of the way.

As far as the rate Durant draws fouls at, I didn't tell you how to interpret the numbers. In fact, I just posted them and specifically said, interpret those anyway you want.

I didn't say Kobe and Melo should get to the line at the same rate Durant does. I watch them play, and would expect Durant to get more free throws because his shot is so difficult to contest, his off the ball movement sometimes gets him right under the basket which is almost always going to result in a foul or basket because you can't do much in that situation and as I mentioned, Durant's length makes him a very good finisher.

Melo on the other hand isn't the finisher Durant is and he gets a lot of shots blocked. But it's also clear he doesn't get anywhere near the calls Durant does. If you try to argue that, you simply don't watch both play. Melo actually does attempt 1.7 extra shots around the rim than Durant as well. And to put those numbers in better context, 26% of Melo's shots come at the rim, while 22.1% of Durant's shots come at the rim.

Durant sells the calls better, he always throws his arms up on a drive, but the refs almost always give him the benefit of the doubt, even if there's not much contact. For example, if Durant takes a jumper, misses it, but twists a little while he's shooting it, he'll almost always get free throws, same thing with lay ups. He still gets shooting fouls at times on that rip move as well, even when the other team isn't in the penalty.

And tell me, why Durant's free throws have increased so much from last season? I don't have a problem with him getting to the line a lot, but the rate is excessive, and I don't see anyway to argue that. He's getting to the line at a much higher rate than peak 2000 Shaq, a guy who played as physical as anyone, pretty much exclusively 10 feet and in, and was intentionally fouled.

[QUOTE=Element]Lol DMAVS Durant gets free throws with little to no contact moreso than any other superstar since MJ, including Wade when he was in his D-Whistle prime and he does that sh.it with less at rim FGA than any of them, includig 100-year old 2013 Kobe Bryant.

The guy gets equally as many FTA as motherfvckn 06 Kobe who attempted 27 (!!) FGA and 6 at rim, as well as 01 Iverson who got hacked hard on his penetrations AND jumpers while obv attempting more FGA from any area on the court.

Durant's gaudy numbers both efficiency and volume wise are stupidly inflated because of Supersupersuperstar treatment. Nikka prolly has nudes of Stern or some sh.it like that.

Dirk in contrast is a jumpshooter who legitimately gets fouled most of the time, since his shot is literally unblockable and sniper-like in accuracy.

And Harden is a bad comparison. He's similar because he's a flopper but he's a statisticians wet dream in terms of shot selection. He drives much much more than KD and looks to actually finish the play more often, plus he's a better flopper and his Eurostep is so deceptive that you have to foul him.

I think KD reffed by normal superstar standards is a 25-28 ppg @ 58-60 TS% player which is still excellent.[/QUOTE]

Let's try this.

For the sake of argument, lets say that a player can't get fouled on a 3...just so we have some common ground to work off of. Obviously you can, but it's rare and indicative of settling.

If you even up the threes shot per game. You get.

Durant 17.9 fga
Melo 20 fga
Kobe 19.4 fga

Now, I'd normally argue that both Kobe and Melo take a couple more shots per game in which drawing a foul is unlikely. The Kobe...pick up the ball...pump fake 3 times...and then shoot a fade away comes to mind. But even if that all adds up to just 1 more bad shot per game...you get;

Durant 17.9
Melo 19
Kobe 18.4

And then you are getting close enough to just see the truth. That Durant is better at drawing fouls and getting to the line than Kobe and Melo...and easily explains going to the line a little less than 1 more time per game.

You can't just list fga and not put the attempts into some type of context. You also can't just ignore that Durant has a superior ability and should be going to the line at a higher rate.

So what more do you need explained? Better ability to get to the line...and the two players brought up take at least 2 to 3 shots per game more than Durant in which they are highly unlikely to get fouled.