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The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
This current Clippers team isn't winning any championships with its current roster. They've got some solid pieces and one of if not the best point guard in the entire league and they should focus on building around Chris Paul, and IMO Blake is not the guy to do it.
Grffin is a good, exciting young player but you are not going to be winning any championships with him as your second option. Griffin is not a guy you can depend on for points in the paint during crucial moments or a guy you can rely on to get his and create his own shot in the post during the playoffs. His stats are nice but they can be misleading, they are empty in a lot of aspects & Blake Griffin's sucess does not always equal Clippers sucess aswell.
Also, Blake Griffins trade value is probrably one of the highest in the league due to his outstanding popularity. The value that he actually brings to a team isn't ANYWHERE near his current market value, this would allow the Clippers to bring in an outstanding amount of pieces.
I'm sure there are a number of teams that would be willing to overpay for BG & give up a lot of talent in order to get him. He will put buts in the seats, i could see a team like Atlanta jumping all over a chance to bring in BG.
The Clippers would be better suited to bring in a guy who fits in better with CP3 & is also defensive minded. J Smoove comes to mind, and with Griffins trade value the Clippers would easily be able to attain a draft pick and some other solid role players to place around Cp3 if they were to trade Griffin.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Clips probably more concerned with selling tix and putting out an exciting product than winning championships
and for that end Blake Griffin is perfect
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Blake Griffin is the franchise player so no he shouldn't be traded. He's slowly getting more aggressive again and last night put up 22, 11 and 7 in limited minutes. Nobody knows how good he will be so it would be stupid to trade him. If I had to choose between Griffin and CP3 I'd hold onto Griffin due to age, him being maxed for 6 more years, upside and him being a big. Not to mention he's more profitable for the franchise as you guys pointed out.
If the Clippers are going to trade one of their stars I'd be looking to move CP3 first if by the all star break he's still this passive and not using Blake enough. I mean this business of Blake scoring 20 in the first half of games and getting almost no touches in the 2nd half? That's all on CP3.
This was supposed to be one of the most potent PNR duos in NBA history yet they don't even run PNR anymore. I bet you Rondo, Irving or Rose would kill to play with Blake Griffin and the other pieces we have. Not sure why CP3 isn't meshing with Blake but I feel like he's trying way too hard to turn Blake into his old running mate David West and making him shoot jumpers... instead of feeding him on lobs and dunks.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Griffin was better when he was allowed to dribble the ball anywhere on the court (what I mean is before CP3)
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=flipogb]Griffin was better when he was allowed to dribble the ball anywhere on the court (what I mean is before CP3)[/QUOTE]
I think CP3's ball dominance isn't a good fit for a big like Griffin who's good at handling the ball. Basically Griffin's options are catch and shoot, or catch in paint and immediately create with 3-4 seconds left on the clock because CP3 holds the ball for 20+ seconds most the time.
Like I said... CP3 is trying to turn Blake into David West 2.0 and that's not his game.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Blake Griffin is the franchise player so no he shouldn't be traded. He's slowly getting more aggressive again and last night put up 22, 11 and 7 in limited minutes. Nobody knows how good he will be so it would be stupid to trade him. [B]If I had to choose between Griffin and CP3 I'd hold onto Griffin[/B] due to age, him being maxed for 6 more years, upside and him being a big. Not to mention he's more profitable for the franchise as you guys pointed out.
[B]If the Clippers are going to trade one of their stars I'd be looking to move CP3 first if by the all star break he's still this passive and not using Blake enough.[/B] I mean this business of Blake scoring 20 in the first half of games and getting almost no touches in the 2nd half? That's all on CP3.
[B]This was supposed to be one of the most potent PNR duos in NBA history yet they don't even run PNR anymore.[/B] I bet you Rondo, Irving or Rose would kill to play with Blake Griffin and the other pieces we have. Not sure why CP3 isn't meshing with Blake but I feel like he's trying way too hard to turn Blake into his old running mate David West and making him shoot jumpers... instead of feeding him on lobs and dunks.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
Chris Paul is a proven All star / All pro in the league, that's a rare thing and you don't choose an unproven big man who's declined in each of his 3 years in the league over that.
I'm not sure there 1 GM who would take Griffin over CP3, i'm positive there is not. cp3 has proven time & time again that he can lead a team into the playoffs, Griffin has not.
And i don't think anybody ever really expected this to be one of the best pnr combo's of all time? Griffin had only 1 year of playing before cp3 came to town.. it's not like he was some proven top 10 player in the league by that time.
Besides, if you're a free agent who isn't a point guard are you really going to choose to go to the team led by Blake Griffin or the team led by Chris Paul?
I wonder if we poll'd Lebron, Durant, Kobe, and the other top players if they'd rather play with Paul or Griffin..
CP3 can attract other free agents, cp3 is a proven player in this league and the best pg playing right now, you act like bringing in a lesser player to play pg will make the clippers better?
Blake Grffin is the one who needs to adjust his game for cp3 b/c guess what? when BG was doing his own thing & getting stats the clippers were a joke, but with cp3 at the point they clips are a legit playoff team. Cp3 is a proven all NBA player, [B]he's the best pg in the league and if he thinks ignoring Griffin is what is best for the team, then he's probrably right.[/B]
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Blake only been hooping for 2 years. U think he was going to lead The Clippers to the championship by then??
And there are plenty of GMs that would pick Blake over paul since Blake is a rare player and his defense improved big time from last year.... At least to me.
Every team in the NBA has a great PG it seems. Its not like CP3 won 3 championships already.bl
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]:biggums:
Chris Paul is a proven All star / All pro in the league, that's a rare thing and you don't choose an unproven big man who's declined in each of his 3 years in the league over that.
I'm not sure there 1 GM who would take Griffin over CP3, i'm positive there is not. cp3 has proven time & time again that he can lead a team into the playoffs, Griffin has not.[/QUOTE]
I already gave the reasons. Griffin has missed 0 games in his career outside of that initial lost season. CP3 misses 10+ games most seasons and his conditioning level isn't going to change that any time soon.
I think Griffin is one of the most untradable pieces in the NBA due to age, marketability, upside, current production and would be more valued than CP3 for those reasons. CP3 is clearly the better player but due to age, health, contract situation etc I disagree that every GM would take him.
BTW it's a HUGE myth and blatant lie to say Blake has declined all 3 years.
Year 1: Had far less talent around him. Took way more shots, got way more touches and got way more time handling the ball. Was a horrendous defender.
Year 2: Added a top 5 player to his team and tons of other talent. His shot attempts, touches, usage rates were all way down but his raw numbers weren't much worse. His defense went from terrible to solid, his shot improved and his post game became a bit more refined. His efficiency and advanced stats were much improved. PER jumped a full 2 points and he led the NBA in on and off court differential (better than CP3).
Year 3: He started off the year banged up with 2-3 injuries but is finally starting to come around. He's now had 3 20/10/5 games in low minutes and his defense is tremendously improved, shot from midrange tremendously improved and free throw shooting is a career high right now. In otherwords skill set wise Griffin is easily better this year than his previous two years but due to less shots, being a bit more passive and not much cohesion with CP3 it would appear to the average onlooker that he's declined.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
CP3 is the main reason why this team is good. Just look at the Clippers' record with CP3 as the main man, as opposed to Griffin as the main man.
CP3 makes things happen. Griffin doesn't.
You just don't like CP3 cause he's taking minutes from your beloved Bledsoe.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Blake only been hooping for 2 years. U think he was going to lead The Clippers to the championship by then?? bl[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Makes me laugh when people say things like "He proved he couldn't do it by himself and needed a star to carry him". So he got his one rookie year where the team had tons of new players, was decimated by injuries... to turn the franchise around before being labeled a low impact, overrated player? The team got CP3+other talent the very next year and somehow Griffin is being perceived as a nobody without CP3?
I still think if Griffin had kept developing as THE man on this team without CP3 they would have made the playoffs last year. First round exit and 7-8 seed at best for sure... but at least in the playoffs with Griffin's development full steam ahead.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
I think this is the best roster Clipps FO could have gotten together from a practical standpoint (minus Odom's signing) since drafting BG. If this core does not win the title or WCF then it's not cause their FO didn't make the necessary moves, the NBA Championship club is an exclusive place for a reason.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Patience with Griffin. He could become the guy. Griffin improved on his jump shot and defense, but he needs the ball in the 4th and needs to be more aggressive.
CP3 has more of an impact than Griffin, but Griffin could get there.
I don't think the Clippers will get far unless Griffin gets better than what he is now.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Asiantastic]CP3 is the main reason why this team is good. Just look at the Clippers' record with CP3 as the main man, as opposed to Griffin as the main man.
CP3 makes things happen. Griffin doesn't.
You just don't like CP3 cause he's taking minutes from your beloved Bledsoe.[/QUOTE]
Again Griffin has more expectations than any player in NBA history from some people. He didn't turn the team around in his rookie year, therefor somehow proved he CAN NEVER be that guy. :applause: . BTW I love Bledsoe but quite frankly you have zero clue what you're talking about. My argument has been for Bledsoe to start at the 2 WITH CP3 not at the 1, so pull your head out of your ass.
Until CP3 signs a max deal he's a rental in my eyes. I haven't let myself get too attached for obvious reasons. I think he will sign but unless he learns to use his teammates more efficiently I'm wondering if it's a good idea to max him for 21 mill a year. Remember before CP3 got here Blake changed the franchise. Players including CP3 started wanting to come here to play with BLAKE.
People act like CP3 made this franchise but Griffin is the true franchise changer and catalyst. I have no doubt that within 3 years without CP3 Griffin would have been able to carry this team to the playoffs. Having two superstars in the future potential is HUGE and neither will go far doing it alone but people need to stop disrespecting Griffin and acting like CP3 came in and made this team. Clippers added a ton more than CP3 last year.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
If Clippers for example let CP3+Odom plus pieces like Hollins walk... and let's say Grant Hill retires? They can afford two borderline all star types. Monta Ellis+Paul Pierce for example would both be available and affordable for the Clippers.
Bledsoe
Ellis
Pierce
Griffin
Jordan
Is this not a very capable team still? Ellis+Griffin would be a very sick duo IMO and Bledsoe+Griffin mesh better than CP3+Griffin due to Bledsoe's ability to generate fastbreaks with steals and defense.. and Bledsoe also is way more willing to throw Blake lobs.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Micku]Patience with Griffin. He could become the guy. Griffin improved on his jump shot and defense, but he needs the ball in the 4th and needs to be more aggressive.
CP3 has more of an impact than Griffin, but Griffin could get there.
I don't think the Clippers will get far unless Griffin gets better than what he is now.[/QUOTE]
Jamal is my man but dude shouldn't be their leading scorer.
Let the stars go to work.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]If Clippers for example let CP3+Odom plus pieces like Hollins walk... and let's say Grant Hill retires? They can afford two borderline all star types. Monta Ellis+Paul Pierce for example would both be available and affordable for the Clippers.
Bledsoe
Ellis
Pierce
Griffin
Jordan
Is this not a very capable team still? Ellis+Griffin would be a very sick duo IMO and Bledsoe+Griffin mesh better than CP3+Griffin due to Bledsoe's ability to generate fastbreaks with steals and defense.. and Bledsoe also is way more willing to throw Blake lobs.[/QUOTE]
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
I can't wrap my mind around the fact that Griffin is doing so much scoring first half... then team literally stops going to him in the 2nd half (especially the 4th). CP3 did it last year too and it drove me nuts.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
LMFAO @ wanting to get rid of Chris "Top 4 player in the NBA at worst" Paul :facepalm
And Fez, Monta needs to be paired with a big guard in the backcourt who can play d, Bledsoe meets the d requirement but is way too small. That's an insanely undersized backcourt. Monta should be a SG in a PG's body or a 6th man.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=RRR3]LMFAO @ wanting to get rid of Chris "Top 4 player in the NBA at worst" Paul :facepalm
And Fez, Monta needs to be paired with a big guard in the backcourt who can play d, Bledsoe meets the d requirement but is way too small. That's an insanely undersized backcourt. Monta should be a SG in a PG's body or a 6th man.[/QUOTE]
Bledsoe has no trouble guarding Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker and D Rose... who are some of the biggest PG's in the NBA so size isn't an issue. He will carry the perimeter defense for Ellis. Ironically you say it's undersized but it's bigger than what the Clippers have had the last 3 years in the backcourt.
I don't want to get rid of Paul.. I just think it's a stupid opinion people have that if CP3 walks the team has nothing left. Clippers have set themselves up very nicely to where if CP3 walks they have a ton of flexibility and options. It's not going to destroy the franchise by any means.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Bledsoe has no trouble guarding Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker and D Rose... who are some of the biggest PG's in the NBA so size isn't an issue. He will carry the perimeter defense for Ellis. Ironically you say it's undersized but it's bigger than what the Clippers have had the last 3 years in the backcourt.
I don't want to get rid of Paul.. I just think it's a stupid opinion people have that if CP3 walks the team has nothing left. Clippers have set themselves up very nicely to where if CP3 walks they have a ton of flexibility and options. It's not going to destroy the franchise by any means.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and then Monta will get torched by Wade, Kobe, Joe Johnson, etc., etc.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=RRR3]Yeah, and then Monta will get torched by Wade, Kobe, Joe Johnson, etc., etc.[/QUOTE]
Which happens to CP3, Billups, Green and Crawford now anyways. CP3 when focused and Bledsoe are the only "good" defensive guards we have. Those types of big SG's have been torching us for years :oldlol: . Ellis at least is a more dependable scoring option than our guys and loves to run the break which will benefit our bigs. Plus we would still have Crawford and him plus Ellis although a bit repetitive would be a deadly ass SG rotation.
Also Ellis isn't the only option I was just giving an example of the types of players the Clippers can afford and plug in that will be free agents.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Bledsoe is unproven but will prove himself.
Ellis>>Billups, Willie Green.
Pierce is old but still a huge upgrade to Butler and has a skill based game.
Griffin is a franchise player, he just hasn't had a chance to prove it.
Jordan has improved a bunch, not his fault Vinny doesn't know how to use him.[/QUOTE]
Bledsoe used to be more of an only defense kinda guy but this season he has picked up his scoring and has been efficient at it averaging 10.5ppg on 50.5 FG% 35.7pt% 85.7FT% all huge upgrades while only averaging 7+ minutes. He has improved on all other parts of his game too. He is among the very few that have delivered on their promise of breaking out.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Fez, I thought you said Chauncey was a "beast" on defense? :confusedshrug:
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=RRR3]Fez, I thought you said Chauncey was a "beast" on defense? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Wth? I've never called him a "beast" on D, must have been somebody else :roll: . Upgrade defensively to Crawford and Green of course but never a "beast" defensively.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=dunksby]Bledsoe used to be more of an only defense kinda guy but this season he has picked up his scoring and has been efficient at it averaging 10.5ppg on 50.5 FG% 35.7pt% 85.7FT% all huge upgrades while only averaging 7+ minutes. He has improved on all other parts of his game too. He is among the very few that have delivered on their promise of breaking out.[/QUOTE]
:cheers: I agree his offense has improved more than people credit him for. His PER 36 is 20 ppg so obviously he's scoring more (it was PER 36 of 10.2 ppg last year!). Sure he still has his turnover issues like most athletic guards who get out of control but his passing, scoring, rebounding, efficiency, steals and blocks are all up.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]:cheers: I agree his offense has improved more than people credit him for. His PER 36 is 20 ppg so obviously he's scoring more (it was PER 36 of 10.2 ppg last year!). Sure he still has his turnover issues like most athletic guards who get out of control but his passing, scoring, rebounding, efficiency, steals and blocks are all up.[/QUOTE]
I'd suggest he should average like 4apg but I guess that would mean less scoring for him which I think is more important since CP3 gives you all you'd need in that department.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
I don't see them winning now, but you don't trade blake while he's still developing. If by the end of his deal he's still not winning you anything then you look to move him. But choosing Blake over CP3 is retarded. Did you see the hornets lakers series where CP3 had noone else on the team and still managed to make it competetive? He's a guy you can build around for a championship if done right, to be honest at the moment Blake isn't.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=dunksby]I'd suggest he should average like 4apg but I guess that would mean less scoring for him which I think is more important since CP3 gives you all you'd need in that department.[/QUOTE]
He's had a few games with 5+ assists if I recall this year but lately somehow he ended up in the doghouse despite playing well. Similar to how Karl inexcusably benches McGee according to Nuggets fans. Vinny has improved some but he just doesn't have the pedigree to work with this much talent and this many egos. Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Stan Van Gundy need to be called in.
I almost hope we lose 10 in a row so Vinny gets canned for a more hardass coach.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Karl limits McGee's minutes due to ashtma IIRC
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=outbreak]I don't see them winning now, but you don't trade blake while he's still developing. If by the end of his deal he's still not winning you anything then you look to move him. But choosing Blake over CP3 is retarded. Did you see the hornets lakers series where CP3 had noone else on the team and still managed to make it competetive? He's a guy you can build around for a championship if done right, to be honest at the moment Blake isn't.[/QUOTE]
What I'm about to say isn't specifically directed at you but it's mostly relevant because a lot of people keep degrading Griffin while boosting CP3's value.
I hate to be forced to the anti CP3 spectrum but like many of them have pointed out what has CP3 done in his career? He's a perennial first round exit besides one season in New Orleans and one season now with the CLIPPERS AND BLAKE GRIFFIN. So it's stupid to act like he's proven you can contend for a championship with him when he hasn't been there.
Blake had one rookie year, didn't go far and people act like dude isn't shit. CP3 is in his 8th season so of course he's more proven and more valuable. Griffin is still raw.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Yea I Would Cut Griffin And Cpiii Start Over Good Move
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
CF86.
You really think that replacing Chris Paul with Monte Ellis would make the clippers better, in what way does that make the clippers better.
You have to be able to see that Cp3 gives your team a better chance at competing for rings than Monte Ellis..
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]CF86.
You really think that replacing Chris Paul with Monte Ellis would make the clippers better, in what way does that make the clippers better.
You have to be able to see that Cp3 gives your team a better chance at competing for rings than Monte Ellis..[/QUOTE]
When did I say better? Besides I think the combination of Ellis+Pierce= CP3. Plus remember freeing Bledsoe alone will offset a lot of the loss of CP3. I think the Clippers would drop from top 3 of the west for the next few years to a dangerous mid-low seed until Griffin makes the leap.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
Chris Paul clearly elite and borderline superstar, but he is the epitome of an overvalued player IMO. The teams he's played on have a 14-20 record in the playoffs, never been to the Finals, yet you'd think Paul was a champion. Remember when his Hornets got routed by Melo's Nuggets to the tune of a 58 point loss? Building around a PG like him is going to be tough, because he's always going to dominate the ball in a way other elite point guards don't. Plus he's a flopping bitch, and not to into his style of play like I was 4-5 years ago.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]What I'm about to say isn't specifically directed at you but it's mostly relevant because a lot of people keep degrading Griffin while boosting CP3's value.
I hate to be forced to the anti CP3 spectrum but like many of them have pointed out what has CP3 done in his career? He's a perennial first round exit besides one season in New Orleans and one season now with the CLIPPERS AND BLAKE GRIFFIN. So it's stupid to act like he's proven you can contend for a championship with him when he hasn't been there.
Blake had one rookie year, didn't go far and people act like dude isn't shit. CP3 is in his 8th season so of course he's more proven and more valuable. Griffin is still raw.[/QUOTE]
I'm in agreement about blake not having had a real chance to prove himself. My argument is that based on how they have played right now, if you had to choose one or the other (i'd keep both for awhile yet though) you cannot choose Blake. CP3 had pretty bad teams with the hornets, he never had a line up that was really built to compete for a ring.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=outbreak]I'm in agreement about blake not having had a real chance to prove himself. My argument is that based on how they have played right now, if you had to choose one or the other (i'd keep both for awhile yet though) you cannot choose Blake. CP3 had pretty bad teams with the hornets, he never had a line up that was really built to compete for a ring.[/QUOTE]
I think CP3 is unquestionably better right now. I just think if you're building from the ground up and picking one now Griffin does have a case. Younger, maxed out deal, sells more tickets, no real limit to how good he CAN be if he works hard enough. I mean dude is raw and is one of the top 15 players already.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I think CP3 is unquestionably better right now. I just think if you're building from the ground up and picking one now Griffin does have a case. Younger, maxed out deal, sells more tickets, no real limit to how good he CAN be if he works hard enough. I mean dude is raw and is one of the top 15 players already.[/QUOTE]
Yeah we're arguing different points I think, your saying if your picking to build around for a new franchise Griffen? I'm talking about if you have one year to win a ring and then the world is ending.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
lmao people really don't watch basketball games. op is going out of his way to make the worst poster in ish history look intelligent. i've seen 98% of blake's nba career. 3rd year blake is significantly better than rookie blake. rookie blake put up really nice numbers because he was one of two players who could do anything on a terrible team. all of his points came through dunks off a fast break or pick n roll or just experimentation. his defense didn't existent at all for the past two seasons. jj hickson could kill him for 10 straight plays by just running a pick n roll because blake still didn't know how to defend it. rookie blake would not even attempt to block any shots or stop any guys around the hoop (mostly because he was afraid of getting in foul trouble but also because he didn't know how to really do it). 3rd year blake has a consistent jump shot, is almost always decisive in the post, can guard his man solidly and his team defense is pretty good now too. he's a much much better player. and we haven't really gotten a chance to see what he can do in late game situations yet because either clippers have blown out the team, or are down and cp3 is trying really hard to get them back in the game.
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Re: The Clippers should move Blake Griffin..
[QUOTE=outbreak]Yeah we're arguing different points I think, your saying if your picking to build around for a new franchise Griffen? I'm talking about if you have one year to win a ring and then the world is ending.[/QUOTE]
Ahhhh then yes CP3 in a landslide. The other posters though were talking about going forward for the future they would let Griffin go before CP3 though and that I was being stupid to say otherwise. For 1 year at the ring or even 2... CP3 gets picked by 30 of 30 GM's.