Kobe just dropped 28 effortlessly in the 4th game in 5 night

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]You're confusing greatness as a basketball player (undeniable) with what kind of teammate he was/is.[/QUOTE]

Basketball is a team game. If Kobe was as shitty a teammate and leader as you have tried to make him out to be, 08-10 couldve never happened. Bad teammates dont lead teams to near dynasties.


On one hand you berate Kobe for not playing the right way with howard as to make him not stay.. but wheres the word on how he played with gasol and odom? The same Odom who when he went to play with Dirk, fell off a cliff.. when he was with Kobe he was a 6th man of the year all star level player. No credit for playing the right way with those guys or any respect for their positive words on Kobe? Just the bad counts huh?

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]he didnt seem to lead by example in his back-to-back years either :confusedshrug:

title or not.[/QUOTE]

What? He was quite obviously the leader of the team. When you're the dude dropping 30/5/5 on a nightly basis, and hitting a bunch of game winners, you are the leader. Period.

And don't give me that Derrick Fisher shit. He was a veteran presence for sure, but you can't be THE leader when you're a mediocre PG with a limited role.

Everyone on that team looked to Kobe. Phil Jackson said it himself.

he's only on a court to beat Jordan on the all-time scoring list.

It sure looks like wInning doesn't even matter to him.

[QUOTE=tpols]Basketball is a team game. If Kobe was as shitty a teammate and leader as you have tried to make him out to be, 08-10 couldve never happened. Bad teammates dont lead teams to near dynasties.


On one hand you berate Kobe for not playing the right way with howard as to make him not stay.. but wheres the word on how he played with gasol and odom? The same Odom who when he went to play with Dirk, fell off a cliff.. when he was with Kobe he was a 6th man of the year all star level player. No credit for playing the right way with those guys or any respect for their positive words on Kobe? Just the bad counts huh?[/QUOTE]

This is simply not true. Plenty of bad teammates can and do win.

As for the Odom stuff. Again, that had nothing to do with Dirk.

You have to start actually getting specific. Odom became a lazy substance abuser after his time in LA. If you are trying to have a honest conversation, putting that on Dirk is not a good way to do it.

Also, nobody is blaming Kobe for all the poor play of his teammates throughout his career.

Again you confuse what entails being a good teammate and team first guy with being one of the 10 or so best players ever while playing with loaded rosters and perhaps the GOAT coach.

MJ has not a great teammate. I don't think he was "shitty" like Kobe, but he hardly was Tim Duncan for example in my opinion. That worked. You don't have to be a great teammate to win.

It's really just a personality. Kobe's personality is to get accused of rape...and then tell the cops on record that Shaq pays people off all the time when this stuff happens. It's just the kind of person he is...something goes wrong...and it's immediately bring up or blame someone else. And you'll notice that same attitude is exactly how his fans act.

He's never at fault...for anything. Like I said before...Phil is a liar, Shaq is a liar, Abbott made it all up, the comments, the clowning Bynum, Howard is a baby...etc.

If you really can't see the difference between Kobe and Duncan (forget Dirk if that clouds you too much) as teammates...I give up.

[QUOTE=Heavincent]What? He was quite obviously the leader of the team. When you're the dude dropping 30/5/5 on a nightly basis, and hitting a bunch of game winners, you are the leader. Period.

And don't give me that Derrick Fisher shit. He was a veteran presence for sure, but you can't be THE leader when you're a mediocre PG with a limited role.

Everyone on that team looked to Kobe. Phil Jackson said it himself.[/QUOTE]

He was the leader per performance, of course... But I'm talking about leadership. Being a good leader. Motivating teammates properly, and conducting yourself in the right manner.. I just think about Curt Schilling's quote and cringe.

[QUOTE]

Where was that quote from, AW?

Almost historic? I'm guessing this was game 2 of the finals against Boston?

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]Where was that quote from, AW?

Almost historic? I'm guessing this was game 2 of the finals against Boston?[/QUOTE]

Yep.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Yep.[/QUOTE]

:cheers:interestingly enough, his lack of leadership was more evident than here during the game 4 collapse when Boston staged the biggest comeback in NBA finals history at staples while the Lakers, starting with Kobe, completely capitulated in front of their home crowd. Complete mental collapse.
The contrast in demeanor between him and piece said it all.

One was hell bent on making history, showing resolve, and leading his team to a 3-1 series lead, while the other just faded.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]:cheers:interestingly enough, his lack of leadership was more evident than here during the game 4 collapse when Boston staged the biggest comeback in NBA finals history at staples while the Lakers, starting with Kobe, completely capitulated in front of their home crowd. Complete mental collapse.
The contrast in demeanor between him and piece said it all.

One was hell bent on making history, showing resolve, and leading his team to a 3-1 series lead, while the other just faded.[/QUOTE]

Good point.. They were up by like 25 points, can't happen.

Greatest player of all-time

He's starting to get on my damn nerves. He's shooting way too much. The other night he put up like 25 shots and didn't play the 4th quarter. :facepalm

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This is simply not true. Plenty of bad teammates can and do win.

As for the Odom stuff. Again, that had nothing to do with Dirk.

You have to start actually getting specific. Odom became a lazy substance abuser after his time in LA. If you are trying to have a honest conversation, putting that on Dirk is not a good way to do it.

Also, nobody is blaming Kobe for all the poor play of his teammates throughout his career.

Again you confuse what entails being a good teammate and team first guy with being one of the 10 or so best players ever while playing with loaded rosters and perhaps the GOAT coach.

MJ has not a great teammate. I don't think he was "shitty" like Kobe, but he hardly was Tim Duncan for example in my opinion. That worked. You don't have to be a great teammate to win.

It's really just a personality. Kobe's personality is to get accused of rape...and then tell the cops on record that Shaq pays people off all the time when this stuff happens. It's just the kind of person he is...something goes wrong...and it's immediately bring up or blame someone else. And you'll notice that same attitude is exactly how his fans act.

He's never at fault...for anything. Like I said before...Phil is a liar, Shaq is a liar, Abbott made it all up, the comments, the clowning Bynum, Howard is a baby...etc.

If you really can't see the difference between Kobe and Duncan (forget Dirk if that clouds you too much) as teammates...I give up.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:

[QUOTE]From the first tip until about 4 minutes left in the game I saw and heard this guy bitch at his teammates. Every TO he came to the bench pissed, and a few of them he went to other guys and yelled about something they weren’t doing, or something they did wrong. No dialog about “hey let’s go, let’s get after it” or whatever. He spent the better part of 3.5 quarters pissed off and ranting at the non-execution or lack of, of his team. Then when they made what almost was a historic run in the 4th, during a TO, he got down on the floor and basically said ‘Let’s f’ing go, right now, right here” or something to that affect. I am not making this observation in a good or bad way, I have no idea how the guys in the NBA play or do things like this, but I thought it was a fascinating bit of insight for me to watch someone in another sport who is in the position of a team leader and how he interacted with his team and teammates. Watching the other 11 guys, every time out it was high fives and 'Hey nice work, let's get after it' or something to that affect. He walked off the floor, obligatory skin contact on the high five, and sat on the bench stone faced or pissed off, the whole game. . . . But as a fan I was watching the whole thing, Kobe, his teammates and then the after effects of conversations. He’d yell at someone, make a point, or send a message, turn and walk away, and more than once the person on the other end would roll eyes or give a ‘whatever dude’ look.[/QUOTE]

KOBE at its best. No wonder. He has to thank shaq and bynum, phil, odom,artest and gasol for what they have done for him. super stacked teams with goat coach = chip.

what a biatch kobe was and is.


btw Celtics coach about DIrk last year:

[QUOTE]Celtics Coach Brad Stevens has the strangest Dirk Nowitzki obsession. With his coaching staff preparing for their first-ever game against the Mavericks earlier this season, Stevens said he "became amazed by how enthusiastic Dirk was" at 35 years old. Stevens was genuinely blown away by how much Nowitzki talked during the game and how much fun he was having. "We're in the middle of this long, arduous season and here's a guy who has done it all over and over and he was having more fun than anyone else on the court."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]The rings argument is applicable here because you just cant be a part of two totally different back to back championship teams if youre a shitty teammate..[/QUOTE]

Of course you can. A talented well coached team can easily overcome an asshole on the roster.