the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/287d81u.png[/IMG]

no other player in history has done it

the only other guy on his team that might make it will be as an international contributor

Pau Gasols individual nba accolades arent up to par

4 reserve allstar selections
1 third team all nba
2 second team all nba's
0-16 in the playoffs without kobe bryant

just as a comparison.. this is anfernee hardaways career

4 starting allstar selections
2 first team all nba's
1 third team all nba
9 playoff wins without shaq


now.. say anfernee hardaway lucked out 2 rings with the suns behind jason kidd.. even if he had 2 good years.. he still wouldnt be a hall of famer.

and making the hall of fame based on winning olympic silver medals or euro competition gold isnt exactly on the same level as an nba hall of famer. considering that if an american wins a silver medal or some second rate international gold. that wouldnt get them a hall of fame nomination. plus its allot easier to be the best player on a euro national team than it is on the US team

Both Phil Jackson and pau gasol will be in the HOF. PJ doesn't get enough credit for some of his teams success. His player management is second to none.

So we're just going to ignore his hall of fame head coach? :no: That triangle offense is the reason LA was so successful.

[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]Both Phil Jackson and pau gasol will be in the HOF. PJ doesn't get enough credit for some of his teams success. His player management is second to none.[/QUOTE]

You beat me to it. Can't ignore Phil Jackson's impact on those championship runs

[QUOTE=ihoopallday]So we're just going to ignore his hall of fame head coach? :no: That triangle offense is the reason LA was so successful.[/QUOTE]


umm.. i'm pretty sure hall of fame coaches dont count as team mates


yea sure he had hall of fame executives/owners/coaches... whatever

:lol

they dont put the ball in the hole though..


and its obvious i meant team mates..

<-- Watches Pau led the Lakers in PER, WS, Postseason PER, Postseason WS, Finals WS in 2010.

<-- Watches Laker fans crush Pau.

<-- Watches D12 leave LA.

<-- UNDERSTANDS.

False.

Pau Gasol will be in the hall of fame whether you like it or not?

Weren't the '09 and '10 Lakers the best rebounding teams in the NBA? I'm pretty sure that they had the best front court in the NBA as well.

[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]<-- Watches Pau led the Lakers in PER, WS, Postseason PER, Postseason WS, Finals WS in 2010.

<-- Watches Laker fans crush Pau.

<-- Watches D12 leave LA.

<-- UNDERSTANDS.[/QUOTE]


like i said.. being good for a few years doesnt make pau or penny hall of famers


he was a soft playoff choker.. then in 2008 he joined kobe... had a good 2009 and 2010.. then fell off the face of the earth

[SIZE="6"]
thats a 2.5 year run as a boarderline hall of famer

[/SIZE]

Gasol will be in the HOF.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Weren't the '09 and '10 Lakers the best rebounding teams in the NBA? I'm pretty sure that they had the best front court in the NBA as well.[/QUOTE]

Inb4 Branslowski comes in to tell you that, for some reason, Gasol wasn't part of the front court.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]False.

Pau Gasol will be in the hall of fame whether you like it or not?[/QUOTE]


yes. but it will be as an international contributer

like i said in the title.

"no other NBA hall of famer"


is pau making the hof based on his individual nba accolades of 2 third team awards?

[SIZE="5"]hell no [/SIZE]

:lol


its the naismith basketball hof... not the nba hof... remember that

Kobe the only player to win multiple championships while getting bailed out by scrubs.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]yes. but it will be as an international contributer

like i said in the title.

"no other NBA hall of famer"


is pau making the hof based on his individual nba accolades of 2 third team awards?

[SIZE="5"]hell no [/SIZE]

:lol


its the naismith basketball hof... not the nba hof... remember that[/QUOTE]

There is only one basketball hall of fame. Therefore your claim is false.

And on NBA alone...it's very close. I bet he'd probably get in on NBA alone actually.

But this thread is so pointless. In 2011...Dirk won a title without anyone as good as Gasol. The hall of famer thing is just stupid of the hall of famer in question is well past his prime.

[QUOTE=ihoopallday]So we're just going to ignore his hall of fame head coach? :no: That triangle offense is the reason LA was so successful.[/QUOTE]

The triangle was the reason for the success?

Must be why the Bulls took home titles in 94 & 95 and why LA took home the gold in 04, 05, 06..

You can run the best schemed offense in the world but you need elite players or a good combination of players with certain skill sets to get it done.

Lamar wasn't Close to being as good as Pippen, but took the role of a forward/guard distributor while Ariza took the role of lengthy perimeter defender.

The 09 Lakers were incredibly thin when you looked past their starting 5, the guard depth was inconsistent at best, the starting point guard was shooting at a low efficiency while being a liability on defense, and their 3rd best player wasn't consistently good enough to start.

And on top of all that the startin center played under 30 minutes per game and grabbed less than 5 boards per..

That "big 3" was Kobe/Gasol/Odom which is pretty weak compared to the more recent big 3s to win championships.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]There is only one basketball hall of fame. Therefore your claim is false.

And on NBA alone...it's very close. I bet he'd probably get in on NBA alone actually.

But this thread is so pointless. In 2011...Dirk won a title without anyone as good as Gasol. The hall of famer thing is just stupid of the hall of famer in question is well past his prime.[/QUOTE]


yes but there are classifications as to what part of the naismith hall of fame theyre nominated to


for instance.. yao ming was nominated as international contributer to the naismith hall of fame.. he wont go in as an nba player



i think after paus last few years bump his career average down to around 16ppg... he'l be floating around missing out on ballots for 10-20 years.. then finally make it as an I.C. hall of famer

Gasol is a HOF lock and was the real finals MVP in 09 and 10. Kobe won both off of hype. Kobe before Gasol could not even win a playoff series in the 3 seasons he had and that was prime Kobe.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]

And on NBA alone...it's very close. I bet he'd probably get in on NBA alone actually.
[/QUOTE]

No it's not very close at all actually. Saying Gasol is a hall of famed without playing on the Lakers is like saying Lamarcus Aldridge is a hall of famer

Gasol is going to the hall. He wont be the least accomplished hall of famer either. Not even among bigmen. Or bigmen who made it mostly off the NBA. Walt bellamy is like a 4 time al lstar, put up numbers in college that didnt lead to much, didnt do much in the playoffs, and won as the 4th or so best player on an olympic team with oscar, west, Lucas and some others.

And make the team or not Pau has been an all star level player more than 10 years in a row. He was playing superstar bigmen as a near equal when he was a rookie.

Gasol isnt some all time elite. But hes a HOF level player.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]yes but there are classifications as to what part of the naismith hall of fame theyre nominated to


for instance.. yao ming was nominated as international contributer to the naismith hall of fame.. he wont go in as an nba player



i think after paus last few years bump his career average down to around 16ppg... he'l be floating around missing out on ballots for 10-20 years.. then finally make it as an I.C. hall of famer[/QUOTE]

It won't take 20 years for Gasol to get in. He'll get in very quickly. He's borderline on his NBA resume alone.

But what is the point of this thread?

Jason Kidd is a first ballot hall of famer. Yet 09 and 10 Gasol was probably twice as good as 11 Kidd.

So what is the point of this thread?

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]No it's not very close at all actually. Saying Gasol is a hall of famed without playing on the Lakers is like saying Lamarcus Aldridge is a hall of famer[/QUOTE]

Without playing on the Lakers? I never said that. Why would we remove his most important years in the NBA?

FACT:

Pau Gasol lead a team to 50 wins as the man before Kobe did, post-Shaq/pre-Gasol:coleman: :sleeping

I hope Pau gets some recognition from his teammates and the organization, because his teams fans continuously disrespect him.

[QUOTE=Hoopz2332]FACT:

Pau Gasol lead a team to 50 wins as the man before Kobe did, post-Shaq/pre-Gasol:coleman: :sleeping[/QUOTE]

Yea.

Before coming to the Lakers. Gasol was a career 19/9/3 on around 57% TS 22 PER player capable of being the clear cut best player on a 50 win team.

The way Kobe fans talk about Gasol is just shocking.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Gasol is going to the hall. He wont be the least accomplished hall of famer either. Not even among bigmen. Or bigmen who made it mostly off the NBA. Walt bellamy is like a 4 time al lstar, put up numbers in college that didnt lead to much, didnt do much in the playoffs, and won as the 4th or so best player on an olympic team with oscar, west, Lucas and some others.

And make the team or not Pau has been an all star level player more than 10 years in a row. He was playing superstar bigmen as a near equal when he was a rookie.

Gasol isnt some all time elite. But hes a HOF level player.[/QUOTE]


Your example Walt Bellamy is a weird example to use when trying to argue that lesser players than Gasol made the HOF.

Bellamy had a 32ppg/19rpg rookie year..

Played 14 years and has a career average of 20 & 14 and is one of only 7 players all time to have 20,000+ points & 14,000 + rebounds

Also when he retired he was 6th all time in scoring & 3rd all time in career rebounding behind only Wilt & Russell..

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Yea.

Before coming to the Lakers. Gasol was a career 18/9/3 on around 57% TS player capable of being the clear cut best player on a 50 win team.

The way Kobe fans talk about Gasol is just shocking.[/QUOTE]

You would think they would bow down to Gasol after saving the Lakers for 3 seasons of prime Kobe failing to even get them a playoff series win and then also for Gasol outplaying Kobe in the 09 and 10 finals.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Yea.

Before coming to the Lakers. Gasol was a career 19/9/3 on around 57% TS player capable of being the clear cut best player on a 50 win team.

The way Kobe fans talk about Gasol is just shocking.[/QUOTE]


Kobe needs elite big men/rebound eaters to make up for his bricking

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]It won't take 20 years for Gasol to get in. He'll get in very quickly. [B]He's borderline on his NBA resume alone.
[/B]
But what is the point of this thread?

Jason Kidd is a first ballot hall of famer. Yet 09 and 10 Gasol was probably twice as good as 11 Kidd.

So what is the point of this thread?[/QUOTE]

if thats the case then who isnt a hall of famer


how many guys in the nba dont around 4 reserve allstar games and a single 2nd team all nba

and his current average isnt even what he'l retire with

considering

2011 - 18.8ppg, 52%
2012 - 17.4ppg, 50%
2013 - 13.7ppg, 46%

he'l play 4-5 more years

projected

best case
2014 - 17ppg
2015 - 16ppg
2016 - 16ppg
2017 - 14ppg
2018 - 12ppg

worst case
2014 - 14ppg
2015 - 13ppg
2016 - 13ppg
2017 - 11ppg
2018 - 9ppg

no matter what.. his career average will drop from 18/9 to around 16/8

and worst case ( based on his current body conditioning ) ... his career average will drop from 18/9 to 15/7



so even with just 1 post prime drop off season. his career average is boarderline hall of famer

[SIZE="5"]
by the time hes retired.. he wont have a chance in hell at making it [/SIZE]


shaq had a 27ppg career average... it dropped to 24ppg after his last few years of being tossed around hanging onto his playing days

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]Your example Walt Bellamy is a weird example to use when trying to argue that lesser players than Gasol made the HOF.

Bellamy had a 32ppg/19rpg rookie year..

Played 14 years and has a career average of 20 & 14 and is one of only 7 players all time to have 20,000+ points & 14,000 + rebounds

Also when he retired he was 6th all time in scoring & 3rd all time in career rebounding behind only Wilt & Russell..[/QUOTE]
Impact matters.. Not inflated 60s stats.

[QUOTE=secund2nun]You would think they would bow down to Gasol after saving the Lakers for 3 seasons of prime Kobe failing to even get them a playoff series win and then also for Gasol outplaying Kobe in the 09 and 10 finals.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the main reason Gasol hasn't been himself since the 11 playoffs was being forced out of his comfort zone by Bynum and then Howard.

He was a 19/10/3 59% TS 23.3 PER guy in the 2011 regular season. It was Bynum coming back and playing more minutes and taking Gasol away from what he did best that messed with the Lakers chemistry and Gasol's effectiveness.

He was absurdly good as a 2nd option from 08 through 11. And I bet you see him get back to producing very well if his idiotic coach can put him in the right position to excel.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]if thats the case then who isnt a hall of famer


how many guys in the nba dont around 4 reserve allstar games and a single 2nd team all nba

and his current average isnt even what he'l retire with

considering

2011 - 18.8ppg, 52%
2012 - 17.4ppg, 50%
2013 - 13.7ppg, 46%

he'l play 4-5 more years

projected

best case
2014 - 17ppg
2015 - 16ppg
2016 - 16ppg
2017 - 14ppg
2018 - 12ppg

worst case
2014 - 14ppg
2015 - 13ppg
2016 - 13ppg
2017 - 11ppg
2018 - 9ppg

no matter what.. his career average will drop from 18/9 to around 16/8

and worst case ( based on his current body conditioning ) ... his career average will drop from 18/9 to 15/7



so even with just 1 post prime drop off season. his career average is boarderline hall of famer

[SIZE="5"]
by the time hes retired.. he wont have a chance in hell at making it [/SIZE]


shaq had a 27ppg career average... it dropped to 24ppg after his last few years of being tossed around hanging onto his playing days[/QUOTE]


What are you talking about? Gasol's 3 straight title appearances and back to back titles will go a long way in beefing up his resume.

You can't just ignore that.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]What are you talking about? Gasol's 3 straight title appearances and back to back titles will go a long way in beefing up his resume.

You can't just ignore that.[/QUOTE]


oh common... titles and finals appearences are used when talking about legends.. not role players

people laugh at kobes 2000 title because he was "only" a 1st team all nba defender, 2nd team all nba, starting allstar with 23/5/5


they say only kobes last 4 rings are on par other hof'ers



so if thats the case.. then paus 18ppg, 0 all defensive team, 3rd team all nba reserve ASG titles are worth even less than that... "I WOULD ASSUME???" lol

:lol

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Not to mention the main reason Gasol hasn't been himself since the 11 playoffs was being forced out of his comfort zone by Bynum and then Howard.

He was a 19/10/3 59% TS 23.3 PER guy in the 2011 regular season. It was Bynum coming back and playing more minutes and taking Gasol away from what he did best that messed with the Lakers chemistry and Gasol's effectiveness.

He was absurdly good as a 2nd option from 08 through 11. And I bet you see him get back to producing very well if his idiotic coach can put him in the right position to excel.[/QUOTE]

I don't even view him as a 2nd option. He was a co-1st option imo. He has dominated so many series. In game 7 vs houston 09 Kobe choked and Gasol tore it up and led them to the win. He is so underappreciated. I agree he will perform well now. Gasol is pretty much a center on offense so other centers did get in the way. That team was not some Batman-Robin type team that people want to make it out to be.

One key point is that whenever Gasol had a subpar game they rarely won yet when Kobe had entire subpar series, let alone games they could still win.

That team's success was fueled on the dominant front court play. People give Gasol flack for not even winning a playoff series before LA well what did prime Kobe did? Failed in all 3 chances he got. Kobe even had 2 7th seeds and a missed playoffs. Yet Gasol joins them and they win the west 3 times and back to back titles yet Gasol is ignored.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]oh common... titles and finals appearences are used when talking about legends.. not role players

people laugh at kobes 2000 title because he was "only" a 1st team all nba defender, 2nd team all nba, starting allstar with 23/5/5


they say only kobes last 4 rings are on par other hof'ers



so if thats the case.. then paus 18ppg, 0 all defensive team, 3rd team all nba reserve ASG titles are worth even less than that... "I WOULD ASSUME???" lol

:lol[/QUOTE]

This is not true at all. You are talking across points as usual. The hall of fame is different than ranking players in a specific order.

This is true whether you like it or not...which makes this so fun. Gasol will be in the hall of fame whether you like it or not...and his 3 finals appearances and 2 titles will be part of the reason why...whether you like it or not.

Being a part of titles as the clear cut 2nd best player while playing at an all nba level matters for the history of the game. Again...whether you like it or not.

And when you combine what Gasol did from 08 through 10...with a very good career overall. You get someone going into the Hall. Simple as that.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This is not true at all. You are talking across points as usual. The hall of fame is different than ranking players in a specific order.

This is true whether you like it or not...which makes this so fun. Gasol will be in the hall of fame whether you like it or not...and his 3 finals appearances and 2 titles will be part of the reason why...whether you like it or not.

Being a part of titles as the clear cut 2nd best player while playing at an all nba level matters for the history of the game. Again...whether you like it or not.

And when you combine what Gasol did from 08 through 10...with a very good career overall. You get someone going into the Hall. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]


i never said he had no chance. i said he has a 50% chance infact... but it wont be solely based on his nba resume

even you gotta admit i'm not that far off by saying kobe won without another nba hall of fame team mate

otherwise we might aswell throw in guys like rasheed wallace


if you wanna lower the standard of what a hof'r is just to mess with kobe or his fans.. go ahead.


but you couldnt look at anyone with a straight face and say pau gasoft is a hall of fame talent.

Gasol is quite clearly a HOFer

:roll:

Kennyboy, deal with it bud. Gasol's a HOFer.

[QUOTE=Fudge]:roll:

Kennyboy, deal with it bud. Gasol's a HOFer.[/QUOTE]

not an nba hall of famer though

:oldlol:

international contributions elect :bowdown:

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Not to mention the main reason Gasol hasn't been himself since the 11 playoffs was being forced out of his comfort zone by Bynum and then Howard.

He was a 19/10/3 59% TS 23.3 PER guy in the 2011 regular season. It was Bynum coming back and playing more minutes and taking Gasol away from what he did best that messed with the Lakers chemistry and Gasol's effectiveness.

He was absurdly good as a 2nd option from 08 through 11. And I bet you see him get back to producing very well if his idiotic coach can put him in the right position to excel.[/QUOTE]

Funny how you agree with blatant trolls such as secund2nun. I thought you were an objective and unbiased poster?

Not only that, but more largely speaking, it is well known that the 08 to 10 Lakers were a stacked team. To suggest otherwise and try to paint them as a "one man band" is pure historical revisionism. They had by far the best frontcourt in the NBA, with Gasol averaging 18, 11, 3.5 and near 2 blocks, Bynum averaging 15, 8 and 1.5 blocks, and Odom averaging 10, 10 and 3.5, not to mention Ron Artest and his incredible defense. And it's not just the stats - it was really obvious to anyone watching the games that the Lakers had a huge competitive advantage against pretty much any team in the frontcourt.