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-   -   hakeem vs d. robinson (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11195)

XxNeXuSxX 09-17-2006 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LAKERS_3_PETE[B
*]Hakeem although listed as a 7'0'er was really only 6'10 1/2 but he was alot more physical and played as if he was alot taller than the Admiral who was definitely a tall timber@7'1.[/b] Hakeem had that killer combination that disguised him as a finess player from time to time with the footworks he had under the basket that will just about get him out of any defensive pressure applied on him. Hakeem was one of those players that the defenders couldn't lock up, and if you get physical w/him he'll make you pay for it with his ability to take you off w/a dribble drive cause he was a quick center w/a 1st step that will have the defender look like a deer caught in headlights. Hakeem wasn't all about the foot moves he was also a physical speciman that will back you down under the basket w/his physical strength and the meanstreak he had in him. Hakeem the dream olajuwon was also a defensive presence with his ability to block shots and getting every imaginable rebound that came his way, Hakeem imo was one of the top 5 centers to ever play this game ENOUGH SAID!:applause:



Where did you get this "fact"? :banghead:

Younggrease 09-17-2006 12:46 PM

...
 
hakeem is def not 7 feet. He looked about 6"10.

XxNeXuSxX 09-17-2006 12:50 PM



Next to Yao...

Younggrease 09-17-2006 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX


Next to Yao...


Thats proves it.... Go back to old games and look at him compared to D-Rob and Ewing.

exit 09-17-2006 01:14 PM

to win when it matters most glorifies one's legacy. nobody praises charles barkley the same way one does to jordan/bird/magic cause charles did not win a ring. barkley is one of the greatest players of all time in my book. one of the greatest PF ever play the game. sadfully he could not beat jordan in the finals. he was great but jordan beat him. and that's how sir charles's legacy is written. same as drob, he was amazing in many games but hakeem kicked his ass when it mattered most. that just simply devalued drob's legacy.

though, charles was beaten and drob was owned...

allball 09-17-2006 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX


Next to Yao...


I have actually had the pleasure of standing right next to Hakeem on at least 3 occasions. He actually looks like he's about 6'9".

XxNeXuSxX 09-17-2006 01:27 PM

Allright fine, he seems like 6'10/6'9 but why is he listed at 7'0?

Psileas 09-17-2006 01:54 PM

Quote:

Next to Yao...

Yao is standing behind Hakeem, and that distorts the comparison.

I have to agree that Hakeem was actually 6-10. Apart from him measuring as tall as Bill Russell in a TV appearance in the mid-90's, there was an old picture of him and Kareem being photographed together, and Kareem had about 4 inches on him (definately not only 2). I think I have this pic somewhere, if I find it, I'll post it.

allball 09-17-2006 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit
to win when it matters most glorifies one's legacy. nobody praises charles barkley the same way one does to jordan/bird/magic cause charles did not win a ring. barkley is one of the greatest players of all time in my book. one of the greatest PF ever play the game. sadfully he could not beat jordan in the finals. he was great but jordan beat him. and that's how sir charles's legacy is written. same as drob, he was amazing in many games but hakeem kicked his ass when it mattered most. that just simply devalued drob's legacy.

though, charles was beaten and drob was owned...


i would change glorifies to enhcances.

allball 09-17-2006 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit
to win when it matters most glorifies one's legacy. nobody praises charles barkley the same way one does to jordan/bird/magic cause charles did not win a ring. barkley is one of the greatest players of all time in my book. one of the greatest PF ever play the game. sadfully he could not beat jordan in the finals. he was great but jordan beat him. and that's how sir charles's legacy is written. same as drob, he was amazing in many games but hakeem kicked his ass when it mattered most. that just simply devalued drob's legacy.

though, charles was beaten and drob was owned...


i would change glorifies to enhances.

TheFourthCenter 09-17-2006 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
4thctr---- thanks for doing some groundwork on the issue. i notice it is your first post and i hope it is not your last. the ish needs enlightenment often. :cheers:

i dont disagree with you in that the playoff series between them was a major turning point. that is what make hakeem so awesome in that he peaked at a later age than most and did very much outplay d. rob and the rockets win was the frosting

in other places here at ish, i would take hakeem over any other center on the defensive end; i am still pondering the centers on offense

my reason for starting this thread was to engage discussion as to how much the perception from that series has taken away from d.rob's total career in many people's opinion. it might be true with some of the younger guys here who never saw them for the course of their careers


i really liked both of them for different reasons. they both gave me years of nba enjoyment


i dont think this is revisionist history as much as selective emphasis.

a war parallel would be looking at one battle, even a battle as a turning point in a war, as defining the whole war.

there are many other factors that go into how things really are

i am glad that your post gives insight into the "battle" of that specific playoff series as a turning point in comparing the two great centers


No, thank you for the topic. Mix tapes and highlights aside, people tend to forget that the Spurs dominated the Rockets and that David was quite the monster. I remember thinking that Hakeem was the only 6'10 above PF or C with that type of speed, quickness, and ability. Then comes David, and I knew from the moment he matched up with Dream that we were in for a treat. David was a monster athlete just like Hakeem. Too bad the back went out.

But society likes the Cliff Notes of things. It's a hassle to point certain aspects when it's easier to say, "Who's got the ring, and who destroyed the other when it counted?" Maybe had David developed a post game, maybe had the Sonics went past the first round, things would have been different, but reality is reality, and Hakeem ended up on top. He clearly destroyed Ewing (read: Ewing shot under or almost under 40%) and neutralized or slightly outperformed a young Shaq that was thought to be unstoppable.

In the end, David will remembered for being soft, elbowed by Malone, spanked by Hakeem, carried by Duncan, but anyone who followed the game would take him any day in today's league. And yes, he outplayed Ewing in case anyone wants to make a point.

Also, Dream was 6'10 and half. I'll try to find the pic, but there's a pic of him staying next to Horry and he's just a fraction taller.

exit 09-17-2006 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allball
i would change glorifies to enhances.


it glorifies one's legacy meaning it makes one's legacy bigger than it actually is. "enhances" isn't what i meant to say. :rollingeyes:

SsKSpurs21 09-17-2006 07:47 PM

.
 
Quote:

In the end, David will remembered for being soft, elbowed by Malone, spanked by Hakeem, carried by Duncan, but anyone who followed the game would take him any day in today's league. And yes, he outplayed Ewing in case anyone wants to make a point.

excellent point. i think those who have ACTUALLY watched the two play know how great they both were. robinsons label of soft is put on him because he really had no heart in the game. his LIFE wasnt basketball, it was family and faith.

i remember something robinson said during the 92 olympics...he said if he had jordans desire and passion to win he could have been one of the greatest, but basketball wasnt a top priority for him.

allball 09-18-2006 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit
it glorifies one's legacy meaning it makes one's legacy bigger than it actually is. "enhances" isn't what i meant to say. :rollingeyes:


a legacy cant be bigger than it actually is. can it? I meant "I" would say enhances as opposed to glorifies.

RainierBeachPoet 09-18-2006 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFourthCenter
No, thank you for the topic. Mix tapes and highlights aside, people tend to forget that the Spurs dominated the Rockets and that David was quite the monster. I remember thinking that Hakeem was the only 6'10 above PF or C with that type of speed, quickness, and ability. Then comes David, and I knew from the moment he matched up with Dream that we were in for a treat. David was a monster athlete just like Hakeem. Too bad the back went out.

But society likes the Cliff Notes of things. It's a hassle to point certain aspects when it's easier to say, "Who's got the ring, and who destroyed the other when it counted?" Maybe had David developed a post game, maybe had the Sonics went past the first round, things would have been different, but reality is reality, and Hakeem ended up on top. He clearly destroyed Ewing (read: Ewing shot under or almost under 40%) and neutralized or slightly outperformed a young Shaq that was thought to be unstoppable.

In the end, David will remembered for being soft, elbowed by Malone, spanked by Hakeem, carried by Duncan, but anyone who followed the game would take him any day in today's league. And yes, he outplayed Ewing in case anyone wants to make a point.


the cliff notes version is what is available to those who did not watch nba back in the day and have to rely on snippets from youtube

i hope you post more often 4thctr!

warriors23 09-18-2006 12:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

saKf 09-18-2006 12:58 PM

Olajuwon won championships when Robinson was still playing his best ball. Robinson won championships when Tim Duncan came to town to create the best high-low post combination we've seen in a long time.

exit 09-18-2006 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allball
a legacy cant be bigger than it actually is. can it? I meant "I" would say enhances as opposed to glorifies.


it can.

eliteballer 09-18-2006 04:00 PM

Hakeem got screwed in terms of winning in the early part of his career, because Sampson got injured and several Rockets players flamed out due to drug problems. In his prime an argument can be made Hakeem was on the Magic/Bird/Jordan level. He was THAT good and dominant.

RapsFan 09-18-2006 04:16 PM

In the late 80's and then into the 90's, that one series changed so much, for better or worse. Hakeen didn't actually have a great reputation or legacy going for him, for a number of years. It all changed when he had one of the best few years in the history of the modern game. David Robinson was huge throughout his career. So it depends on how you look at it. I guess I am saying, only since those few years was Hakeen ever considered near the top of the greatest of all time list for C's and all players. I don't know who I think is the better NBA player, b/c you have to look at a heck of a lot more then one finals series.

In reality, most C's of these two guys calibar can score at will one on one. Even marginal players in the NBA demand double teams. So, some of it depends on the team strategy of SA during that series. MJ could kill any one player who guarded him. That doesn't make the defender a bad player. Tim Duncan can get schooled by KG on one play...and TD can score at will on KG on the other. These guys are that good. You have to double. Then it comes down to teammates. I guess all I am saying is that nobody would have stopped either of these guys one on one when they are on. Hakeem was on during that series. Both had great careers.

RainierBeachPoet 09-18-2006 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RapsFan
In the late 80's and then into the 90's, that one series changed so much, for better or worse. Hakeen didn't actually have a great reputation or legacy going for him, for a number of years. It all changed when he had one of the best few years in the history of the modern game. David Robinson was huge throughout his career. So it depends on how you look at it. I guess I am saying, only since those few years was Hakeen ever considered near the top of the greatest of all time list for C's and all players. I don't know who I think is the better NBA player, b/c you have to look at a heck of a lot more then one finals series.

In reality, most C's of these two guys calibar can score at will one on one. Even marginal players in the NBA demand double teams. So, some of it depends on the team strategy of SA during that series. MJ could kill any one player who guarded him. That doesn't make the defender a bad player. Tim Duncan can get schooled by KG on one play...and TD can score at will on KG on the other. These guys are that good. You have to double. Then it comes down to teammates. I guess all I am saying is that nobody would have stopped either of these guys one on one when they are on. Hakeem was on during that series. Both had great careers.


good point about the double teams rapsfan!

all the more reason to give props to both of them-- hakeem and d.rob

KWALI 09-18-2006 06:09 PM

Well
 
D-Rob vs Dream is like Clyde vs MJ

It's closer than you remember becuz the play-offs mean more than the reg season in your memories but really does that matter?

in terms of nostalgia...Legend......your gut feeling....?

no

RainierBeachPoet 02-21-2007 06:33 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
any of you new guys care to comment?

SsKSpurs21 02-21-2007 06:46 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
For me its a similar debate of Duncan VS Garnett.

Garnett and DRob were both athletic freaks. Duncan and Hakeem had the intangables that make them great.

Alot of people base DRob and hakeems ENTIRE career on that ONE playoff series. sure it was big and DRob seemed to get owned, but Duncan also OWNED KG in 1999 and some people still think that KG is better than Duncan.

I wish there were more highlight mixes of David Robinson because he was an amazing talent. he peaked alot faster than hakeem. Hakeem didnt hit his stride until he was 30-32.

XxNeXuSxX 02-21-2007 06:52 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
I see, I commented in September... for me I'd take prime D-Rob as he is my favorite player OAT. I know it's clear Hakeem had the better career, but the reality gap between the two is minimal.

SsKSpurs21 02-21-2007 07:00 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
I see, I commented in September... for me I'd take prime D-Rob as he is my favorite player OAT. I know it's clear Hakeem had the better career, but the reality gap between the two is minimal.


David Robinson is the main reason why I became a Spurs fan. I once saw David steal a pass, run down court, dunk the ball, then run back and block a shot on the other end. he was an athletic beast, the same way KG is...but he didnt have the leadership qualities or the intangibles that Duncan or Hakeem had.

If you look at both of their bios on NBA.com/history, you will see how great both of them were.

If you can make a claim that KG is better than Duncan, then you can make the EXACT same claim that DRob is better than Hakeem. the similarities are so close its scary!

alot of people just hear that Drob got owned by Hakeem in a playoff series and automatically jump to the conclusion that Hakeem owned Drob every single time they played, which is obviously NOT the case, and that is a huge injustice to David.

Wuxia 02-21-2007 07:19 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
David Robinson was my childhood hero, but I will say this: Hakeem had a better career.

DreamRockets 02-21-2007 08:14 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
not even close my friend, we are talking about 36/12/4/5/55% vs 23/11/3/2/48% here, we all saw the embarassment on national tv, and i was there to see it LIVE so no highlights on youtube here.

i won't even bother with their regular season games, (in which hakeem still dominated) because they don'0t mean jack, true legends are remembered because of their playoffs performances. hakeem is remembered for outplaying ewing, embarassing robinson and running in circles around a young shaq, robinson is remembered for riding duncan's coat-tails to 2 championships, lol.

if you wanna rank shaq above hakeem that's ok, i don't agree and never will but at least shaquille is a "true" nba champion, please leave robinson (90's version of KG) out of this discussion.

DreamRockets 02-21-2007 08:15 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
triple p

DreamRockets 02-21-2007 08:16 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
triple post, garbage browser.

HoustonRockets87 02-21-2007 09:09 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
Olajuwon Vs Robinson Head-To-Head:
Career Regular Season: Hakeem- 21.9 PPG, 11.3 RPG, Robinson- 19.6 PPG, 11.2 RPG
Post season: Hakeem- 35.3 PPG, 12.5 RPG, Robinson- 23.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG

DreamRockets 02-21-2007 09:12 PM

Re: ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbine
Amare.


the spurs won didnt they ? duncan owned amare on the boards and blocked more shots, robinson was owned at everything, points, rebounds, blocks, assists, steals, fg%, and lost the series against a 47 wins team, the whole package.

DreamRockets 02-21-2007 09:14 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mamba
Admiral was just straight better.


don't be stupid dude, there isnt a single case you can make for robinson being better than hakeem, only the other way around.

DreamRockets 02-21-2007 09:16 PM

Re: .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SsKSpurs21
this is EXACTLY what rainer poet was talking about...

EVERYONE focuses on THAT ONE SERIES.

here is a little analogy:
robinson is to garnett : duncan is to hakeem

this meaning, robinson had a weak supporting cast and a weak coach. it was drob and sean elliot, and sean elliot wasnt even considered an allstar, while hakeem had ralph sampson. same way how duncan had drob.

iam not claiming that robinson was better than hakeem. thats not true...BUT what i am saying is THAT ONE series puts that perception that the entire career was that way, and that was simply not the case.

DRob has owned hakeem a few times but the reason why that one series is blown out of proportion is because DRob was the MVP and it was the playoffs.

Duncan has owned KG but KG has gotten his on duncan a few times...maybe not in the playoffs, but he has owned duncan a few times. same EXACT situation with robinson and hakeem.

the current duncan vs KG is the same exact battle between hakeem vs robinson.



yeah idiot, because hakeem had MJ at SG, stockton at PG and barkley at PF :hammerhead: the likes of horry, casseell, kenny smith, herrera, mad max, etc were nothing but role players, the equivalents of avery, elliot, rodman and del negro in san antonio, hakeem didn't have a better "team" than robinson so stop making excuses, dude flat out whored the so called "mvp".

HoustonRockets87 02-21-2007 09:21 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

Xsatyr 02-21-2007 09:23 PM

Re: .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRockets
yeah idiot, because hakeem had MJ at SG, stockton at PG and barkley at PF :hammerhead: hakeem didn't have a better "team" than robinson so stop making excuses, dude flat out whored the so called "mvp".


I thought Spurs had the best record or at least a better record than the Rockets that year, didn't they?

HoustonRockets87 02-21-2007 09:25 PM

Re: .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsatyr
I thought Spurs had the best record or at least a better record than the Rockets that year, didn't they?

that really doesn't matter if you don't win the championship.

DreamRockets 02-21-2007 09:26 PM

Re: .
 
not even close, spurs won 62 games and the rockets struggled to win 47 games because contrary to what casual fans think the drexler for thorpe trade was a bad one which disrupted out chemistry, we should have maintained our championship team from '94 intact and we could of had home court advantage in most series.

Shep 02-21-2007 09:41 PM

Re: hakeem vs d. robinson
 
its very close..but david robinson over hakeem olajuwon.

granted, hakeem led his team to the finals in 3 years..but what about all those years he led his team to a .500 record ('87, '88, '89, '90, '92) with a supporting cast similar to the one david had when he was winning 55-60 games every year?

Xsatyr 02-21-2007 09:42 PM

Re: .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonRockets87
that really doesn't matter if you don't win the championship.


Obviously, I was pointing out how can you say Hakeem had a better team.


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