Where do you guys typically rate Scottie Pippen as a player?

The trolls overrate/underrate him, but honestly, where does he rank in history? Are the Bulls just as successful without him? Is he a franchise caliber player or just a REALLY good #2 like Bean was in 2000? :confusedshrug:

We'll never really know what Pippen could do as a franchise player, we didn't even get 2 seasons of that. I think he could be a solid franchise player, lead his team to the playoffs on an annual basis. Could he make/win the Finals? That'll always be a mystery

He's in my top 10.

I came to this conclusion using my new metric of greatness/accolades + c*ck size. And after a thorough analysis, there's very few ATG NBA'ers than can "match" up with 'ol Pip.

He's a top second fiddle, and those players are the most difficult for me to rate appropriately.

I have him in the 25-35 range. But I can see a case for higher or lower.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]We'll never really know what Pippen could do as a franchise player, we didn't even get 2 seasons of that. I think he could be a solid franchise player, lead his team to the playoffs on an annual basis. Could he make/win the Finals? That'll always be a mystery[/QUOTE]


If MJ is 1-9 in playoffs without Pippen, can MJ really be considered a franchise player?


Do we think Pippen would do much worse than 1-9? What we saw of him without MJ certainly doesnt suggest it.

I think he could have been a franchise caliber guy for sure. Maybe not for a dynasty but he'd compete every year and be recognized as a top 10 guy in the league at least.

Do I think he's one of the 30 or so best basketball players of all time? No not really. But I'd give him credit as a top 30 guy given his impact on 6 championship teams.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory]I think he could have been a franchise caliber guy for sure. Maybe not for a dynasty but he'd compete every year and be recognized as a top 10 guy in the league at least.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
He was widely considered a top 5-10 player in the league anyway. Some even said he was the second best player, behind Jordan, a couple years.

I don't think he was ever the second best player in the league... but he was very clearly a top 10 player. If he had been the number one option on his team, and he played as well as he did in his lone full season without Jordan, then it's pretty easy to assume he'd be considered a top 5 player in the league, accounting for "leading scorer" biases.

Top 20.

One of the best 2nd fiddle players ever but didn't have the iso game to carry a team offensively as "the man". He had his chances in 1993-1994 and 1994-1995 and after 1997-1998 without MJ. He was a K. Leonard type player. Someone who will probably be never good enough to lead a team as "the man" but would thrive as 2nd fiddle playing next to another superstar.

Of course, one of the best defenders ever and one of the most well rounded players ever.

[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-17-2015/VNMnV0.gif[/IMG]


[B]Here's what Shaq said to Pippen and the whole world on Twitter a couple days ago: [/B]

[I][INDENT]"You did okay, but MJ did most of the work"

"Remember I WAS BATMAN YOU WAS ROBIN , I was PUFFY YOU WAS MASE"

"See what happens when Michael Jordan ain't protecting you, you lose a 17 pt lead in the fourth quarter." (referring to GIF above)[/INDENT][/I]


In reality, if the Bulls had won Game 7 of 1990 ECF against the Pistons, they would've beaten the Blazers in the Finals - they proved they were the better team because they took the Pistons 7, while the Blazers only took them 6.

But Pippen famously choked in Game 7 of ECF, with 2 points on 1-10 shooting.. Indeed, Pippen cost the Bulls their first championship in 1990 - they should've 4-peated from 1990-1993.. He later [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367910]admitted[/url] his Game 7 choke was due to the pressure.

This is nothing new - Pippen only averaged 15/8/3 on 34% in the 1996 Finals - that's the worst performance by a 2nd option EVER.. And his performance in the 1998 Finals was also bad - only 6 and 8 points in final two games for a 15 ppg on 41% series average.
.

somewhere around 24-25, interchangeably with Jordan

[QUOTE=3ball]

This is nothing new for Pippen - he only averaged 15/8/3 on 34% in the 1996 Finals - that's the worst performance by a 2nd option EVER..

[/QUOTE]
Really? The worst one ever?
Just this year we had Iguodala and whoever was the second option for the Cavs.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]We'll never really know what Pippen could do as a franchise player, we didn't even get 2 seasons of that. I think he could be a solid franchise player, lead his team to the playoffs on an annual basis. Could he make/win the Finals? That'll always be a mystery[/QUOTE]

Of course he was talented enough to lead a team to the playoffs every year but was he good enough to be "the man" on a championship winning team? I doubt it. The guy's talents simply blended much better as a 2nd fiddle. Someone who can play D and do the other things that impact the game and not have to worry about carrying the offensive load. He just didn't that type of iso game where he could consistently break down set defenders. A lot of his points came via transition and when the D wasn't set.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]

Really? The worst performance ever by a 2nd option?

(who) was the second option for the Cavs (this year?)

[/QUOTE]
Mosgov averaged 14/8 on 55% with 2 blocks per game in 2015 Finals.

That is far superior to Pippen's 15/8 on 34%.
.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]He's a top second fiddle, and those players are the most difficult for me to rate appropriately.

I have him in the 25-35 range. But I can see a case for higher or lower.[/QUOTE]

There are levels to greatness. At the top of the heap is "the man" that led his team to multiple championships. Then you have the 2nd tier guys like Pippen who won but as 2nd fiddle.