Of course, I'm referring to Rodman in his prime.
I wouldn't expect him to shut him down, but could he frustrate him enough that he would hold him below his average?
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Of course, I'm referring to Rodman in his prime.
I wouldn't expect him to shut him down, but could he frustrate him enough that he would hold him below his average?
what kinda question is this? do you consider rodman to be a good defensive player?
because i consider him a great defensive player, one of the best ever. this is not like dikembe mutumbo having shaq dunk on him 12 times a game after he wins defensive player of the year awards you know. so obviously he could thwart lebrons game. frustration sounds about right. wear him out, and make him work for his points.
No, but he'd do as good a job as anyone could. Rodman would defend LBJ the same way he played Malone.
[QUOTE=imdaman99]what kinda question is this? do you consider rodman to be a good defensive player?
[/QUOTE]
I know how I feel about Rodman, I ask the question to see how everyone else feels. It may be a rhetorical question to you, but some may disagree.
with handchecking, yes and no (lebron is an all-time great already, not many players would be able to stop him)
without handchecking, no.
dont you guys understand, rodman is a 1 way player. in some ways similar to bruce bowen. they werent needed for offense (yes, bowen was lethal on corner 3s. but he didnt have any responsibilities offensively but to take those 3s to keep his defender honest).
but if you're gonna surround rodman with a bunch of bad defenders... than NO he could not contain lebron. rodman surrounded by the bad boy pistons and 3peat bulls... YES absolutely he could contain lebron. altho... i dont know if he could cover the quicker guys later in his career. but him on the pistons? absolutely. lebron would not drop 30 lol
[QUOTE=usa hoops]Of course, I'm referring to Rodman in his prime.
I wouldn't expect him to shut him down, but could he frustrate him enough that he would hold him below his average?[/QUOTE]
Dennis Rodman's "Incedible defense on Shaq!" video has made Dennis Rodman overrated as a defender. Rodman was not the best defender in his time, he was known as a pest player that would get in your head and cheapshot you a few times in order to get you throw out of games, he also was good at making the right kind of hustle intangible plays at the right time to help the teams he was on, and was of course a supremely elite rebounder. But he wasn't some defensive god. If you want someone to defend Lebron from that era you pick Scottie Pippen.
[QUOTE=imdaman99]dont you guys understand, rodman is a 1 way player. in some ways similar to bruce bowen. they werent needed for offense (yes, bowen was lethal on corner 3s. but he didnt have any responsibilities offensively but to take those 3s to keep his defender honest).
but if you're gonna surround rodman with a bunch of bad defenders... than NO he could not contain lebron. rodman surrounded by the bad boy pistons and 3peat bulls... YES absolutely he could contain lebron. altho... i dont know if he could cover the quicker guys later in his career. but him on the pistons? absolutely. lebron would not drop 30 lol[/QUOTE]
Is that why he struggled against Dallas in the 2011 Finals? He had a very athletic Shawn Marion, and he had to get past Tyson Chandler in the post.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]he was known as a pest player that would get in your head and cheapshot you a few times in order to get you throw out of games[/QUOTE]
Exactly, and I don't think LeBron is smart enough or mature enough to take that abuse. He would get incredibly frustrated, it would get in his head and he'd f*ck up badly. Rodman would Brickowski his ass.
While not being the greatest man defender, he's still arguably as good as Tony Allen, Marion, and other guys who gave LeBron a hard time.
[QUOTE=usa hoops]Is that why he struggled against Dallas in the 2011 Finals? He had a very athletic Shawn Marion, and he had to get past Tyson Chandler in the post.[/QUOTE]
Definitely dude :applause: Chandler is a great defensive big, to put behind good defenders to prevent layup after layup. Marion + Kidd on the perimeter, with Chandler down low. This is why I do not discount the Knicks pestering the Heat, if they ever get a chance to match up. They have the ingredients, they just need all the old farts to get healthy.
What is a good job? Would Lebron get his 25? Probably... would it be one of the hardest 25 ppg he would have gotten? You damn right.
Rodman would be in foul trouble before halftime. LeBron would blow past him everytime.
No, thats a speed/quickness mismatch (talent/skill mismatch is obvious)... and Lebron is even bigger than Rodman was...
Shawn Marion shut down Lebron, and Rodman was a superior defender to Marion. I don't see why he couldn't.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Shawn Marion shut down Lebron, and Rodman was a superior defender to Marion. I don't see why he couldn't.[/QUOTE]
Marion shut down Lebron? What? Where? When? How? No my man... its not him or any one man that was bothering him, it was those guys behind Marion.... but more than that it was himself that shut himself down
[QUOTE=pauk]Marion shut down Lebron? What? Where? When? How? No my man... its not him or any one man that was bothering him, it was those guys behind Marion....[/QUOTE]
lol^ didn't watch The Finals
Marion shut down Kobe, then Durant, then Bron
Shutting down doesn't mean they don't score...but please believe they work for those points when The Matrix is guarding them
[QUOTE=pauk]No, thats a speed/quickness mismatch (talent/skill mismatch is obvious)... and Lebron is even bigger than Rodman was...[/QUOTE]
I don't think you realize how strong Dennis Rodman was... he would easily muscle LBJ out of position. He was able to stand his ground against much stronger guys like CB34, Shaq, Malone, etc. Lebron's additonal height means nothing in this matchup. quickness is Lebron's only advantage, but Rodman's defensive footwork and instincts would make up for that a lot. Mentally LBJ is not ready for what Rodman would throw at him, there's nobody in the NBA today close.
Lebron would still be able to effect a game, but not close to what he's used to. It would be a fun matchup to watch for sure. I think the deciding factor would be how it was officiated because Rodman got away with a ton of shady BS that he would not get away with in today's NBA.
[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]Exactly, and I don't think LeBron is smart enough or mature enough to take that abuse. He would get incredibly frustrated, it would get in his head and he'd f*ck up badly. Rodman would Brickowski his ass.
While not being the greatest man defender, he's still arguably as good as Tony Allen, Marion, and other guys who gave LeBron a hard time.[/QUOTE]
It's hard to say, dude... because the refs don't let people get all over LeBron. I can't think of any player who has been on him like Rodman would have been. He'd probably get some BS calls. But yea I think Rodman would be tough for Bron because dude was a great athlete and really strong.
-Smak
[QUOTE=pauk]Marion shut down Lebron? What? Where? When? How? No my man... its not him or any one man that was bothering him, it was those guys behind Marion....[B] but more than that it was himself that shut himself down[/B][/QUOTE]
Ok Skip Bayless...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv2jqFd2-qI[/url]
Nobody could get into your head like Rodman could...this has to be taken into account as well
[QUOTE=usa hoops]Of course, I'm referring to Rodman in his prime.
I wouldn't expect him to shut him down, but could he frustrate him enough that he would hold him below his average?[/QUOTE]
Under today's rules? NO
Under past rules? YES
Naturally, there'd be times Bron would get the best of him. But he'd defend him much better than anybody today due to the rules. I'm sure there's many players today that can do a great job on him, but the rules won't allow them to do so.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Dennis Rodman's "Incedible defense on Shaq!" video has made Dennis Rodman overrated as a defender. Rodman was not the best defender in his time, he was known as a pest player that would get in your head and cheapshot you a few times in order to get you throw out of games, he also was good at making the right kind of hustle intangible plays at the right time to help the teams he was on, and was of course a supremely elite rebounder. But he wasn't some defensive god. If you want someone to defend Lebron from that era you pick Scottie Pippen.[/QUOTE]
This. No agenda here and nothing against Rodman (big fan, actually), but people seem to forget that Shaq averaged 27/11/4/1.5/1.5 on 64% shooting against Rodman in that series. Please, no rhetoric about how "those were the hardest 27 points Shaq ever got." When we say that, we usually mean the offensive player had to take more shots or was generally less effective. I fail to see how either applies in this case.
That video is great, and it showcases Rodman's versatility, but, like CavsFTW said, it's given Rodman a reputation he doesn't fully deserve.
Not that he couldn't guard Lebron, or that he could -- this is just something I've been thinking for a little while and wasn't sure how agreeable it would be.
[QUOTE=ILLsmak]It's hard to say, dude... because the refs don't let people get all over LeBron. I can't think of any player who has been on him like Rodman would have been. He'd probably get some BS calls. But yea I think Rodman would be tough for Bron because dude was a great athlete and really strong.
-Smak[/QUOTE]
It really depends on what era rules they play with, but I think he'd definitely give him fits now (with the mental game), and in the past get physical.
The following players can easily defend LBJ because[B] lebron's BALL HANDLING skills & BALL CONTROL is pretty ordinary![/B]
[I]-Dennis Rodman
-Michael Jordan
-Scottie Pippen
-Michael Cooper
-Joe Dumars
-Gary Payton[/I]
[QUOTE=Djahjaga]This. No agenda here and nothing against Rodman (big fan, actually), [B]but people seem to forget that Shaq averaged 27/11/4/1.5/1.5 on 64% shooting against Rodman in that series.[/B] Please, no rhetoric about how "those were the hardest 27 points Shaq ever got." When we say that, we usually mean the offensive player had to take more shots or was generally less effective. I fail to see how either applies in this case.
That video is great, and it showcases Rodman's versatility, but, like CavsFTW said, it's given Rodman a reputation he doesn't fully deserve.
Not that he couldn't guard Lebron, or that he could -- this is just something I've been thinking for a little while and wasn't sure how agreeable it would be.[/QUOTE]
No he didn't. Rodman guarded Shaq on a few instances, where he did very well by getting him out of position and taking tough shots. He did not guard him the whole series every time he was on the floor.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Shawn Marion shut down Lebron, and Rodman was a superior defender to Marion. I don't see why he couldn't.[/QUOTE]
Lol at this bullshit.
[URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=mariosh01"]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=mariosh01[/URL]
Prime KG or Robert Horry are worth a mention.
I will say this between Pippen and Rodman the Old school Bulls would be better equipped than anyone to make Lebron to really work for his points.
Old fart nostalgia at it again. "Teh past always better than present."
I think Rodman was every bit the athlete James is. Phil Jackson said Rodman was the best athlete he ever saw.
You idiots consider yourself knownledge basketball fans and don't realize that your much more likely to be able to get a good shot than defend a player from getting a good shot? Rodman would do just as good as other "good" defenders. Rodman isn't like some super defender JUST BECAUSE he played in the 80s 90s. 80s 90s doesn't mean you're instantly better anyone who thinks that is either an old person who can't let his childhood go or a young person thinking that makes them sound knownledgable. 100% fact.
And of course 97 bulls fan homer a$$ says the most ridiculous statement of the thread. Ban that idiot already he's basically Euroleague but for the 80s 90s bulls.
[QUOTE=clayton]Old fart nostalgia at it again. [B]"Teh past always better than present."[/B][/QUOTE]
no wonder why Kobe is so MJwannaBE for life. Cheaply copying a past players post-up fadeaway game to 100%.
[QUOTE=atljonesbro]You idiots consider yourself knownledge basketball fans and don't realize that your much more likely to be able to get a good shot than defend a player from getting a good shot? Rodman would do just as good as other "good" defenders. Rodman isn't like some super defender JUST BECAUSE he played in the 80s 90s. 80s 90s doesn't mean you're instantly better anyone who thinks that is either an old person who can't let his childhood go or a young person thinking that makes them sound knownledgable. 100% fact.
And of course 97 bulls fan homer a$$ says the most ridiculous statement of the thread. Ban that idiot already he's basically Euroleague but for the 80s 90s bulls.[/QUOTE]
Lol what? Rodman was a terrific athlete Jackson did say he was the best athlete he ever. I actually think Rodmans biggest strength would be his endurance. I think his defense in the fourth quarter physically would be as strong as in the first quarter
[QUOTE=pauk]Marion shut down Lebron? What? Where? When? How? No my man... its not him or any one man that was bothering him, it was those guys behind Marion.... but more than that it was himself that shut himself down[/QUOTE]
This isn't about this statement in particular, just a general statement based on several decades of participating and lurking on basketball message boards.
I find it interesting that often a defensive player doesn't get credit if his defensive assignment has a subpar game or series (with the caveat that it depends on if the agenda is to disparage the particular offensive player in question, but then it becomes more about that player "choking" than any positive thing the defender [i]did[/i]). It's always, the offensive player just wasn't making shots he normally makes, or he stopped himself. It's like it's not possible for any defender to adversely affect him in any way or simply play great defense on him. It's always about what the offensive player [i]didn't[/i] do rather than what the defensive player [i]did[/i].
[QUOTE=Just2McFly]Lol at this bullshit.
[URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=mariosh01"]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=mariosh01[/URL][/QUOTE]
You might not like it but that's a great find.
It's even more impressive to remember how Marion shut down LeBron in that Finals matchup when you can see the stats laid out like that. 8 full points off his average against Marion in the regular season.
That's awesome
The best defenders on lebron are not crazy wingspan 3's like Durant, and George. Its guys with girth and lower body strength.
I feel like Rodman lacks the bulk. George and Durant lack the bulk.
THe perfect defender on Bron is 2003-2007 Ron Artest. That Artest had bulk(250-255 muscle) height (6'7) and very quick feet.
I'd say a lot of it depends on what era are we playing in? Rodman's or now? A lot of shit Rodman did was just antagonistic, blatant cheap shots that would get him thrown out before half time right now. It would also have to be a younger Rodman and not the one who was guarding Malone during the 2nd Bulls Three-peat. The guy that would have the most success guarding Lebron in whatever era would be a 93- Scottie Pippen when he put muscle onto his frame. He has the length, athleticism, and basketball IQ to give him fits.
I think Rodman would be better at the job the anyone else. Rodman is probably the best individual defender ever in my opinion. At least for Small forwards and bigs (maybe some guards too, but less so than forwards and bigs, and only when he was young really)
Rodman with the Bad Boys would shut LeBron down.
Rodman with the Bulls would also shut LeBron down.
But it wouldn't just be him by himself, Pistons teammates would help. Pippen and MJ too.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Dennis Rodman's "Incedible defense on Shaq!" video has made Dennis Rodman overrated as a defender. Rodman was not the best defender in his time, he was known as a pest player that would get in your head and cheapshot you a few times in order to get you throw out of games, he also was good at making the right kind of hustle intangible plays at the right time to help the teams he was on, and was of course a supremely elite rebounder. But he wasn't some defensive god. If you want someone to defend Lebron from that era you pick Scottie Pippen.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Rodman is one of the elite defenders of all-time so I don't get what you're saying.
No one is going to regularly shut him down. But Rodman is one of the very best defenders of all-time and he absolutely could be put on Lebron and more than likely would be, unless Pippen was on the court with him.