Knowing your role on a team

I was wondering; when you figure out your weakness as a player, how do you know if it's something you could never excel at, or if it's something you just need to practice?

For example, I play kind of like Steve Blake. I shoot open three's, pass the ball to the open man, rarely turn the ball over and play solid defense. Against some weaker competition I can get to the hoop. But I'm beginning to think I just have to accept that this is who I am and instead of practicing new things, just practice what I know I'm capable of. I practiced crossovers and hop steps and what not and I can do them but my moves just don't seem explosive enough to employ.

So what is your experience when facing this issue as a player?

It's like.. there's a difference between your objective, and your tools.

Like at one point in time, my objective was to learn how to finish over the big man when he comes over to help.

My tool that I tried to use was a Tony Parker floater. But I realized over time it was an inconsistent shot for me, so I stopped using it.

So the tool was wrong, but I didn't give up my objective. I still wanted to finish over the secondary big man helper.

So I learned some other things. Hitting his man quick when he comes to help. Quicker release on my pull up jumper. Learning to finish better with contact so I can go right at the big man. Just anything I could.

So if your objective is to learn to be a better at driving, maybe the tools of cross over and hop step aren't the best for you. I never do hop steps personally. Maybe it's more jab steps? Spin moves? Other?

Also, sometimes you have to change your game based on the competition. Against relatively equal competition I'm Steve Nash or Allen Iverson, depending on my aggressiveness level. Against better competition I'm 2012 Jason Kidd. hahaha. Even better competition I'm just trying to not be a total screw up.

I'm sure Rake or someone else will give you a better response, but hopefully you took something out of this..

Very helpful. Thank you. It's better to look at in terms of an objective.

A floater isn't a good shot for me either, too inconsistent. Probably make it 3 out of 10 tries in game. I like to get closer and use the backboard. Maybe I should try to use the backboard on my floater like Mark Price did., I dunno

[QUOTE=Svendiggity]Very helpful. Thank you. It's better to look at in terms of an objective.

A floater isn't a good shot for me either, too inconsistent. Probably make it 3 out of 10 tries in game. I like to get closer and use the backboard. Maybe I should try to use the backboard on my floater like Mark Price did., I dunno[/QUOTE]

I always hated throwing up a floater. I'd rather just keep my dribble and look for the pass than take it. I'm sure if I hit it more I wouldn't feel that way though. It always feels good out of my hands but it doesn't hit often enough to warrant the loss of passing opportunities

I'm a scorer first second and third no matter who I play with. I got into basketball because of AI and practiced his moves since I was like 9 years, my go to move is dribbling behind the back and spinning in the opposite direction afterwards. I suck donkey balls at shooting off the dribble but I'm pretty good spotting up from mid-range. Usually I just try to penetrate and finish with floaters, hooks and finger rolls, I love shooting floaters and it's also the one shot I practiced the most. I also love posting up and faking, but I get blocked on my jump a lot lol. When I play competition way ahead of me, I turn into one of those finesse f@ggots and I play purely inside (even though I love chucking up jumpers).

I try to defend as smart as possible. Ie not overly commited to man defense, knowing the strengths and weaknesses of my man, helping out when appropiate. The more games I play, the more lazy I get though, so if you play with me chances are I'll just stand around when we get out on the break to not have to run back on D lol and Im also guilty of pushing people on layup attempts...

its always difficult to break out of how other players perceive your ability.

the best way to do it is to always play hard, eventually people will respect you more and more for that, will allow you to take more liberties in a game

[QUOTE=Burgz V2]its always difficult to break out of how other players perceive your ability.

the best way to do it is to always play hard, eventually people will respect you more and more for that, will allow you to take more liberties in a game[/QUOTE]

Yep, there is a certain amount of freedom that is earned through rebounding and defense in pick-up games. Normally I can tell when I don't quite have it and those are the days when I try to set more picks, move a lot, rebound, defend, etc. Honestly, those days are some of the most satisfying.

[QUOTE=Jailblazers7]Yep, there is a certain amount of freedom that is earned through rebounding and defense in pick-up games. Normally I can tell when I don't quite have it and those are the days when I try to set more picks, move a lot, rebound, defend, etc. Honestly, those days are some of the most satisfying.[/QUOTE]

Second this

I always try to set as many picks as possible, even if I know it's a bad shooter and he's gonna chuck it up. Actually, especially if they are chuckers since they'll recognize the freedom my screens give them much more. It's an easy way to gain respect on the court, teammates will give up the rock to you and set picks for you as well. Plus it frustrates the opposition, particularly when you set picks for one specific guy all the time, causing his man to get tired and lost on D.

I remember one game, me and my bro were on the same team and since he's a lights out shooter and I know his sweet spots so I try to set screens as much as I can for him. Well, the guy defending him was really active and engaged at first. He was the oppositions playmaker and ran around like a fckn rat. But then it happened: I set some straight up chinese wall picks on him for like 10 minutes and my bro was draining shot after shot that day - at one point the guy just started standing around on D and whenever I set a pick on him he looked at me like "man for real?". He was getting frustrated as hell and tried to go one-on-one on my bro but didn't have the legs for it, lol. Needless to say, it cost his team the game because they had no one else who could really penetrate and after his one on one tirade failed he just passed up the ball all the time...

In my experience liberties and roles in pickup games are determined by stronger personalities not necessarily the best talent.

The type of personalities I hate most are the ones who:

have chucking mentalities,

who over dominate the ball,

do flashy passes that end up out of bounds and blames the teammates who didn't catch it.

Overcoach and give unsolicited basic useless advice.

I've only played pick-up ball my whole life. I've never been good enough (or at least didn't bother to try to get to the point) to be on an organized team.


Anyway, with that stated, I've found that I'm an inconsistent shooter. I suppose you can say I'm an inconsistent streaky shooter because I'll have spurts of making 4-5 shots in a row, followed by droughts of missing 4-5 shots in a row. I have never been able to figure out my exact shot. I don't know if I'm more of a set shooter, a jump shooter..? Can I do fadeaways? (Not really.)
Over time, I've also realized I don't have handles. I used to try to do everything imaginable, but now I just stick to basic dribbles, sometimes going behind my back, sometimes doing a quick between the legs dribble, but nothing fancy. No sort of crossovers, really.

With that said, I've practiced these things plenty of times, but I don't play basketball enough nor practice enough to be great at them. When I play pick up games these days, I tend to look for the open man, play stellar D, box out, and set plenty of screens and picks for whoever I recognize as good shooters.

I want to one day be able to say I've found my shooting touch and found a consistent shooting form, but until then, I did pride in doing off-ball things that aren't glamorous and never receive true recognition by other ballers, but are really necessary to get the W.

[QUOTE=Svendiggity]I was wondering; when you figure out your weakness as a player, how do you know if it's something you could never excel at, or if it's something you just need to practice?

For example, I play kind of like Steve Blake. I shoot open three's, pass the ball to the open man, rarely turn the ball over and play solid defense. Against some weaker competition I can get to the hoop. But I'm beginning to think I just have to accept that this is who I am and instead of practicing new things, just practice what I know I'm capable of. I practiced crossovers and hop steps and what not and I can do them but my moves just don't seem explosive enough to employ.

So what is your experience when facing this issue as a player?[/QUOTE]I think there's a difference between knowing your strengths while playing a real game versus knowing what you can never excel at. Personally, I'm always looking for things to add to my game. It's what keeps basketball fresh and unique. I think you'd be surprised what you're capable of developing and eventually adding to your game.

For instance, about ten years ago there was actually a time where Euro-stepping was not a part of my game. But of course, I thought it'd be a good addition so I figured out the steps, committed some time to it, worked, and slowly, I began experimenting with it in games. It was a little rough initially but as with everything, the more time and repetition I put in, the more natural the move began to occur, ultimately leading it to become a reliable part of my repertoire.

You mention your crossovers and hop steps not being explosive enough. I do not believe that means you're not meant to perform moves like that. It just sounds like they need some more practice. If you do not want to continue tinkering and working on them, then yes, I believe you may have to accept not being able to do them (not that there's anything wrong with that). But truthfully, if you experiment with them and work, there's a good chance you're going to find a way to make those moves useful for you at some point.

I think it's healthy and fun to continue looking to add things. I get stuck in a rut every now and again of only doing moves I've had in my arsenal for a while. Sometimes it just takes a little bit of extra thought to remind ourselves to continue moving forward and evolving. It's not magic, and it takes work, but oftentimes it's worth it.

Knowing my role and knowing your limitations is a little different in my book.

My role is to distribute and score every now and then, and don't try to be Kobe. Make sure when your team mates are free, you don't dribble the ball three times before you pass it, just pass it straight away. Don't try and take over, because it won't happen.

My limitation is my lack of a reliable 3 point shot. I've worked on it for years, and it's never been trust worthy. Partly psychological, partly my form.

Case in point, court use to have high school three point line, if I am one step in I generally make them, beyond I am rubbish.

My friends use to say it's all in my head.

Three months back, they've repainted the three point line to NCAA, now guess what I'm hitting a step in which is beyond the old high school three point line...:facepalm

So for me personally I work on my three point shot, it's improving....:cheers:

[QUOTE=Rake2204]I think there's a difference between knowing your strengths while playing a real game versus knowing what you can never excel at. Personally, I'm always looking for things to add to my game. It's what keeps basketball fresh and unique. I think you'd be surprised what you're capable of developing and eventually adding to your game.

For instance, about ten years ago there was actually a time where Euro-stepping was not a part of my game. But of course, I thought it'd be a good addition so I figured out the steps, committed some time to it, worked, and slowly, I began experimenting with it in games. It was a little rough initially but as with everything, the more time and repetition I put in, the more natural the move began to occur, ultimately leading it to become a reliable part of my repertoire.

You mention your crossovers and hop steps not being explosive enough. I do not believe that means you're not meant to perform moves like that. It just sounds like they need some more practice. If you do not want to continue tinkering and working on them, then yes, I believe you may have to accept not being able to do them (not that there's anything wrong with that). But truthfully, if you experiment with them and work, there's a good chance you're going to find a way to make those moves useful for you at some point.

I think it's healthy and fun to continue looking to add things. I get stuck in a rut every now and again of only doing moves I've had in my arsenal for a while. Sometimes it just takes a little bit of extra thought to remind ourselves to continue moving forward and evolving. It's not magic, and it takes work, but oftentimes it's worth it.[/QUOTE]

Whilst I agree with Rake2204 on working on your weaknesses, I get what the OP is saying. Some guys can't pass the ball, as in they can't make good passes that will lead to a direct basket. They pass it too late, too early, too hard, try a fancy reverse pass, behind the back. This guy I know is great at dribbling and scoring, but just can't make passes on the fast break I know if he tries to pass it's generally a turnover.

Equally you have some guys that just can't make layups anymore, due to old age and busted knees, in this case they need to know their role, run to open spot and shoot the J.

just stay in your lane.

[b][QUOTE=9512]In my experience liberties and roles in pickup games are determined by stronger personalities not necessarily the best talent.[/b][/QUOTE]

I find that to be true at times too. A strong personality can go a long way... especially with younger guys or guys who don't play that often. A lot of times there is that one crazy guy who comes in that everybody thinks is a total joke because he's really not that good but nobody ever says anything to him... maybe because nobody wants to ruin the entertainment :lol I kind of have developed a strong personality being pretty vocal and it's amazing how much more respect I get... I suppose me being a student of psychology goes a long way in that. When you know what people respond to and how not to be overwhelmed by the psychological aspects of the game which includes dominance and ego drive... the whole game really slows down and you think a lot less. Everybody appreciates someone who hustles tho... that's a given.

In response to the OP... I think the thing to adjust your game to is physical capabilities. If are super athletic then you can tailor your game more around using that... and if you aren't then it makes more sense to be more patient and technical. I'm not super athletic at all so I use shots like floaters and pull up jumpers because layups in traffic when you are 5'11, have short arms, and not much hang time = not the highest percentage of success.

I used to not be able to do crossovers effectively and my handle was kind of inconsistent... after months of practicing though I have found that although I am not the quickest guy yes I can cross people up, use hesitation moves to fool them, and blow by them because they have to worry about that other stuff. I think it makes sense to make the technical aspects of your game as sound as possible... make sure you can shoot well from anywhere, can handle the rock, able to spot other's weaknesses, etc.... make sure your mental, psychological, and technical abilities are as good as they can be because those are things everyone can work on. Physically we all can become more athletic and explosive, but there is limit to it. Putting in more reps isn't going to help you with that... but it definitely will in terms of the other aspects of game I mentioned.

And as for the role thing... you can always look to expand your role. Having more tools = better success for the team if you still stay within your role. Pick up ball is one of those things where you just sort of figure it out as you go and if you play at the same place you know how certain people play... but I mean pick up ball is one of those things though where no roles other than who is the main ball handler are defined sometimes ... It's hit and miss. In organized ball though teams work the most efficiently when everyone knows their roles and doesn't play too much outside of their role. Like I said though, I mean if you are just purely a shooter... by developing the ability to take the ball off the dribble when people close on you... that just opens up the floor and should make things easier for everyone. By being purely a shooter and then trying to be a one on one player... now that's a different story haha.

[QUOTE=stevieming]Knowing my role and knowing your limitations is a little different in my book.

My role is to distribute and score every now and then, and don't try to be Kobe. Make sure when your team mates are free, you don't dribble the ball three times before you pass it, just pass it straight away. Don't try and take over, because it won't happen.

My limitation is my lack of a reliable 3 point shot. I've worked on it for years, and it's never been trust worthy. Partly psychological, partly my form.

Case in point, court use to have high school three point line, if I am one step in I generally make them, beyond I am rubbish.

My friends use to say it's all in my head.

Three months back, they've repainted the three point line to NCAA, now guess what I'm hitting a step in which is beyond the old high school three point line...:facepalm

So for me personally I work on my three point shot, it's improving....:cheers:[/QUOTE]
:lol :lol :oldlol:

KG always does that in games. He has a wide open three, but he takes a step in and drains the shot, instead of going for the three. It can be quite annoying :oldlol:

[QUOTE=joe]It's like.. there's a difference between your objective, and your tools.

Like at one point in time, my objective was to learn how to finish over the big man when he comes over to help.

My tool that I tried to use was a Tony Parker floater. But I realized over time it was an inconsistent shot for me, so I stopped using it.

So the tool was wrong, but I didn't give up my objective. I still wanted to finish over the secondary big man helper.
[/QUOTE]

this is a good post for anything in life.

It's best to step way back from your goal and view it from multiple angles, then the solution may be more simple than you think. And it seems the main idea is getting a bucket when your primary weapon is cut off. There are a million ways to do that.

It's also important, IMO, to take a fail drive assuming your teammates won't think less of you. That's one of the largest parts of sports, keeping faith in self and the faith of your teammates.

Just so that they know you will do it and even if they stop it with relative ease, you can plan your next drive off of what they did because, unless you're playing against some sort of bball savants, they will likely attempt to stop you in a similar fashion. Then, from there you can do whatever.

They may even attempt to force you to drive and that will open up even more possibilities. Often, people get mad cuz someone realizes what they are best at and goes out of their way to stop it, but really it's just making everything else that much easier and you'll still be able to do what you do from time to time because it's what you're best at.

At least that's how I see it...

-Smak

Very interesting topic. i've asked myself the same question. My experience is that most players have a certain skill set and stick to it. Some guys are only good at a few things but they make the best out of that. Personally I'm working on all kinds of stuff. i try to get better at almost everything, which is hard to do and at times it's like you practice one thing and you get better at it but at the same time you get worse at something else because you don't spend enough time on practicing it or you focus more on the new moves. It's hard to work on every aspect of your game if basketball is just your hobby. Therefore it might make sense to focus on certain aspects of your game. The things that come naturally to you and these things determine your role on a team.
But personally I simply like to work on new stuff and it keeps things interesting for me.