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-   -   #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396284)

3ball 01-22-2016 04:23 AM

#1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Every single player, coach and analyst says this.. Among non-big men - Bird, Magic, and MJ elevated teammates better than anyone.. Kobe does well too - the story was never that his teammates underperformed.

Otoh, the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates underperform - this is because he turns them into play-finishers and their predictable play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs.

This inferior brand of basketball that Lebron imposes on his team is why his team/supporting cast underperforms - it's like clockwork... 2/7 anyone?.. Utimately, this is why he isn't a top 10 all-time player.
.

plowking 01-22-2016 04:52 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

AirBonner 01-22-2016 04:53 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

slayed :lol

warriorfan 01-22-2016 05:02 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.



Wrong.

Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.

Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.

Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.

navy 01-22-2016 05:07 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

:oldlol:

AirBonner 01-22-2016 05:07 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorfan
Wrong.

Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.

Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.

Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.

You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan

warriorfan 01-22-2016 05:10 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AirBonner
You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan


After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.

You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?

:whatever:

AirBonner 01-22-2016 05:21 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorfan
After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.

You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?

:whatever:

I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him

warriorfan 01-22-2016 05:23 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AirBonner
I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him


Yeah Jordan got just as much benefit from playing with Pippen as Pippen did with Jordan.

You have exposed yourself as a troll. You can get the fuck out now.

aj1987 01-22-2016 05:24 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

REKT


@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?

Dr Hawk 01-22-2016 05:25 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
#1 criteria should be how high was a player's on court impact.

that's why I have Olajuwon comfortably in the Top5

plowking 01-22-2016 05:26 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Bulls without Jordan - 55 wins
Lebron James on the Heat in his final year - 54 wins

So Jordan essentially lost to the Magic with a team better than the 2014 Miami Heat. Meanwhile Bron was able to get a worse team to the final.

Bron making his teammates better once again.

warriorfan 01-22-2016 05:28 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aj1987
REKT


@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?


Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.

If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.

3ball 01-22-2016 05:28 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plowking

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.


Jordan's team won every series where Pippen played poorly - in those series, Jordan simply carried the team and didn't worry about Pippen.

But anytime Jordan needed Pippen to play well to win the series, he made sure Pippen was playing well
.


There was only a ONE game where Scottie's poor performance caused the Bulls to lose, and Jordan was helpless to do anything about it - this was Pippen's epic choke in Game 7 of ECF (1-10 for 2 points), where Pippen admitted the pressure got to him.. Not much MJ could do about that.

aj1987 01-22-2016 05:32 AM

Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorfan
Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.

If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.

So, what happened during the 2nd 3peat? MJ stopped pushing him? Also, what about the dozens of other athletic players? He couldn't develop them into at least Kevin Martin level offensive players? How about Bill Cartwright? Luc Longley? Bosh was a better rebounder than them.


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