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[QUOTE=Nevaeh]It's all good 97. And it's nothing personal either. I've been called out on crap I was wrong on too. [IMG]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/cheers.gif[/IMG]
But dude, even [I]you[/I] have to admit that you've been slipping lately, especially on the fact-checking, which should be easy for you, being a Bulls Fan and all.[/QUOTE]
Lol when have I slipped? Not saying its not true. But I'm curious
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Nobodies rewriting history. Pippen guarded Magic in game two save for the first seven minutes of the game. And did an amazing Job.[/QUOTE]
I never said Pippen didn't do a great job, but you acting like his defense was the turning point in the series, when I rather think his defense was not as great as you are making it seem. I rather believe the team shooting % which was ridiculous, Paxson and Jordan catching fire, leading to a comfortable lead and the Lakers missing a ton of easy shots had more to do with it.
I cant start a thread for some reason so I have to post this here. Ill try not to get off topic. But here are my personal top 5 defensive specialists. The first five that come to mind when I think defense:
Guards: Gary Payton, Michael Cooper
Forwards: Pippen(greatest defender to play the game), Dennis Rodman
Center: Hakeem The Dream
Those are the guys that come to mind when I think defense. Am I missing anyone? Pretty sure thats a solid starting 5 if you wanna be serious about making a team work for baskets.
[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]No, he isn't.
But then again, I've never seen anyone on a basketball message board claim that Pippen was the greatest defensive player of all time (I'll leave open the possibility that I've simply missed it). People have said (and say) he's the greatest [I]perimeter[/I] defender of all time, but saying someone is the GOAT perimeter defender and saying they're the GOAT defender are two different things.
And it's impossible for the former to also be the latter, as a perimeter defender can[B]not[/B] affect a game defensively as a big man can due to inherent positional limitations.[/QUOTE]
A bit off topic, but I've learned a great deal tracking down and reading your posts over the past few weeks.:cheers:
How do you store your data?
[QUOTE=andgar923]To be fair, you are correct.
Most people do say he's the GOAT perimeter defender. There is some that have claimed that he's the GOAT defender unless they meant the GOAT 'perimeter' defender.
But my main point still stands.
He's not the defensive stopper many make him out to be. He's great, but not the best. Too weak inside and he's been beat on the perimeter players often while he was ON them. Not on switches, not on broken plays, but mano y mano. Everybody gets beat, but with a player of his reputation you wouldn't expect him to get beat as much as he has.[/QUOTE]
what nonsense, all great nba defenders have been beaten a lot in their careers
Pretty much the same type of player, the only difference is Havlicek was arguably the best player on a championship team as he won finals mvp.
[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Pretty much the same type of player, the only difference is Havlicek was arguably the best player on a championship team as he won finals mvp.[/QUOTE]
Not quite the same player. Both were great defenders and had great all around game, but Havlicek was better offensively and much better clutch.
[QUOTE=kizut1659]Not quite the same player. Both were great defenders and had great all around game, but Havlicek was better offensively and much better clutch.[/QUOTE]
He was not better offensively. Theire ppg are about the same and that's with Hondo playing in that inflated statistical era and playing more minutes per night.
And what makes Hondo more clutch?
[QUOTE=97 bulls]He was not better offensively. Theire ppg are about the same and that's with Hondo playing in that inflated statistical era and playing more minutes per night.
And what makes Hondo more clutch?[/QUOTE]
Well, their regular season averages are 21/22 and 16/17.5 respectively so its not thesame. During the 68, 69 and 74 championship seasons Havlicek averaged 26-27.4 points in the playoffs.
And dude, about the clutch plays, we already went over this and you've been disproven by myself and a bunch of other posters. Havlicek is known as one of the all-time clutch players. Pippen isn't. Just get over it.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]He was not better offensively. Theire ppg are about the same and that's with Hondo playing in that inflated statistical era and playing more minutes per night.
[b]And what makes Hondo more clutch?[/b][/QUOTE]
"Havlicek stole the ball!"
Playing great in '68 and '69
Leading a team to a championship in '74 and you could argue for '76
etc
[QUOTE=kizut1659]Well, their regular season averages are 21/22 and 16/17.5 respectively so its not thesame. During the 68, 69 and 74 championship seasons Havlicek averaged 26-27.4 points in the playoffs.
And dude, about the clutch plays, we already went over this and you've been disproven by myself and a bunch of other posters. Havlicek is known as one of the all-time clutch players. Pippen isn't. Just get over it.[/QUOTE]
Lol. I alluded to multiple clutch games Pippen had. Pippen stealing that ball to seal the championship in 97 is no less than when Hondo stole the ball.
And this play was more clutch
[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbRFKhpMKX0E&ei=015eUMGNJZOE9gT-yYGIBA&usg=AFQjCNELlJ_iptpAzxaTUZ-Ud63f71KTWg[/url]
[QUOTE=97 bulls][B]He was not better offensively.[/B] Theire ppg are about the same and that's with Hondo playing in that inflated statistical era and playing more minutes per night.
And what makes Hondo more clutch?[/QUOTE]
You've got to be a biased clown to actually believe the bolded.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol. I alluded to multiple clutch games Pippen had. Pippen stealing that ball to seal the championship in 97 is no less than when Hondo stole the ball.
And this play was more clutch
[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbRFKhpMKX0E&ei=015eUMGNJZOE9gT-yYGIBA&usg=AFQjCNELlJ_iptpAzxaTUZ-Ud63f71KTWg[/url][/QUOTE]
LOL you are hilarious. Pippen was not the only one blocking AND this play is very controversial due to the fact that Smith was fouled AND it was game 5 and not game 7. Why do you think Havlicek's stealing the ball is one of the most iconic plays of all time - bias against Pippen, lol? And your other examples of Pippen's clutch plays - the Portland game 6 comeback, defense on Worthy - have already been disproven. Can't you judge admit you are wrong and give up?
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol. I alluded to multiple clutch games Pippen had. Pippen stealing that ball to seal the championship in 97 is no less than when Hondo stole the ball.
[b]And this play was more clutch[/b]
[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbRFKhpMKX0E&ei=015eUMGNJZOE9gT-yYGIBA&usg=AFQjCNELlJ_iptpAzxaTUZ-Ud63f71KTWg[/url][/QUOTE]
:kobe:. Last time I checked, clutch game 7 play is much more important than a clutch game 6 play
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol. I alluded to multiple clutch games Pippen had. Pippen stealing that ball to seal the championship in 97 is no less than when Hondo stole the ball.
And this play was more clutch
[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbRFKhpMKX0E&ei=015eUMGNJZOE9gT-yYGIBA&usg=AFQjCNELlJ_iptpAzxaTUZ-Ud63f71KTWg[/url][/QUOTE]
This post perfectly demonstrates your bias.