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Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
I really don't understand the logic what so ever. So you think, "Oh he played in an era other than the current one, he must be better than everyone playing today."? There's no logic behind that at all. If you think players have gotten worse over time then you're sadly mistaken. That's completely backwards thinking. More of the aspects that make a player develop into what they become get BETTER over time and players learn BETTER ways to get better.
[SIZE="3"][B]LET ME HIGHLIGHT THIS PART BEFORE SOMEONE SH1TS A COW. IM NOT SAYING ALL CURRENT PLAYERS ARE BETTER THAN OLDER PLAYERS OR OLDER PLAYERS ARE SCRUBS. IM SIMPLY SAYING YOUR NOSTALGIA AND HOMERISM OF ERAS MAKES NO SENSE. [/B][/SIZE]
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
It depends on the player. Wilt Chamberlain would be a poor mans Deandre Jordan according to idiots on here.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
In 2062, all the kids on ISH (vBulletin Version 3.5.4), will be calling Lebron a scrub.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]In 2062, all the kids on ISH (vBulletin Version 3.5.4), will be calling Lebron a scrub.[/QUOTE]
That's why you must join me on a mission to post on this board or whatever the largest basketball board is at the time when I'm 60+. They will be forced to listen to my stories about Kobe until they accept that he's the best
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
Yet another of these threads from you?
Your other thread was full of sweeping generalizations about players, eras, and other posters. You were intolerant of anyone's opinion other than your own. You lumped all people of certain ages together, knowing nothing about them. You attributed the traits of a single poster to all that you assume are in that same age group.
Then you wonder why people don't think that you'd be a fair, thoughtful and unbiased judge of players?
Take a break. Don't post for a while. Look up "irony".
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=JMT]Yet another of these threads from you?
Your other thread was full of sweeping generalizations about players, eras, and other posters. You were intolerant of anyone's opinion other than your own. You lumped all people of certain ages together, knowing nothing about them. You attributed the traits of a single poster to all that you assume are in that same age group.
Then you wonder why people don't think that you'd be a fair, thoughtful and unbiased judge of players?
Take a break. Don't post for a while. Look up "irony".[/QUOTE]
How about instead of a lecture you answer my question thanks.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE]So you think, "Oh he played in an era other than the current one, he must be better than everyone playing today."? There's no logic behind that at all.[/QUOTE]
Which is why nobody said it.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=atljonesbro]I really don't understand the logic what so ever. So you think, "Oh he played in an era other than the current one, he must be better than everyone playing today."? There's no logic behind that at all. If you think players have gotten worse over time then you're sadly mistaken. That's completely backwards thinking. More of the aspects that make a player develop into what they become get BETTER over time and players learn BETTER ways to get better.
[SIZE="3"][B]LET ME HIGHLIGHT THIS PART BEFORE SOMEONE SH1TS A COW. IM NOT SAYING ALL CURRENT PLAYERS ARE BETTER THAN OLDER PLAYERS OR OLDER PLAYERS ARE SCRUBS. IM SIMPLY SAYING YOUR NOSTALGIA AND HOMERISM OF ERAS MAKES NO SENSE. [/B][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Nobody says what your asserting. I think what's happening here is your misunderstanding peoples observations and discussions about how certain aspects of the game that have changed over time could benefit certain players from certain eras.
For example: This is a not a strong era for centers. Centers from the late 60's/early 70's or early 90's (two strong era's for centers) would have a field day against the pool of competition today. Nobody is saying all players from then are better than all players from now - it is only 1 specific part of the game that is being pointed out. Right now is a strong era for point guards, notice how you don't see people here making threads about K.C. Jones from the 60's being potentially better than Kyrie Irving? There's a reason for that. Your just not seeing the whole picture.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Nobody says what your asserting. I think what's happening here is your misunderstanding peoples observations and discussions about how certain aspects of the game that have changed over time could benefit certain players from certain eras.
For example: This is a not a strong era for centers. Centers from the late 60's/early 70's or early 90's (two strong era's for centers) would have a field day against the pool of competition today. Nobody is saying all players from then are better than all players from now - it is only 1 specific part of the game that is being pointed out. Right now is a strong era for point guards, notice how you don't see people here making threads about K.C. Jones from the 60's being potentially better than Kyrie Irving? There's a reason for that. Your just not seeing the whole picture.[/QUOTE]
What I'm saying is people always say, "Man imagine is MJ played today he'd average 40 ppg" or "If Barkley played today he'd be MVP every year" stuff like that. It's extremely common on this forum.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
I think they would be worse.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=atljonesbro]What I'm saying is people always say, "Man imagine is [B]MJ played today he'd average 40 ppg"[/B] or "If Barkley played today he'd be MVP every year" stuff like that. It's extremely common on this forum.[/QUOTE]
Phil Jackson and Larry Brown said that shit, not us:roll:
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=franchiez]I think they would be worse.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9483/negged.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
I'ma say it.
People insinuate/state that players from past eras would be better today because they were better.
Yeah
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
The great centers would be able to play in any era in my opinion, the skills that made Wilt/Kareem great would still allow them to get buckets today. I think wing play has advanced a lot though, can't really see a guy like Baylor putting up big numbers.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]The great centers would be able to play in any era in my opinion, the skills that made Wilt/Kareem great would still allow them to get buckets today. I think wing play has advanced a lot though, [B]can't really see a guy like Baylor putting up big numbers.[/B][/QUOTE]
Why not? What's so different about what he's doing vs what Lebron or Kobe does?
[url]http://youtu.be/NseHzlD9rU0[/url]
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Why not? What's so different about what he's doing vs what Lebron or Kobe does?
[url]http://youtu.be/NseHzlD9rU0[/url][/QUOTE]
LeBron is a lot bigger for starters, and Kobe clearly has a much more advanced handle and one on one moves. You put Baylor in a half court game with all these 6"8 to 6"10 SFs guarding him and how do you honestly think he'd do?
Centers have gotten much worse, but I feel wing players are much better.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]LeBron is a lot bigger for starters, and Kobe clearly has a much more advanced handle and one on one moves. You put Baylor in a half court game with all these 6"8 to 6"10 SFs guarding him and how do you honestly think he'd do?
Centers have gotten much worse, but I feel wing players are much better.[/QUOTE]
lol, how many 6-8 to 6-10 SF's are there in the NBA? 1? (Durant, 6-9). The rest have inflated list info and are no different in height than the guys he played in the 60s. Baylor was the same size as MWP, except he had unguardable fluidity and creativity offensively. Baylor is a blend of the fluidity of Kobe mixed with the power of Lebron. He's in between the two. U think a player built like that wouldn't put up numbers than you don't know basketball.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]lol, how many 6-8 to 6-10 SF's are there in the NBA? 1? (Durant, 6-9). The rest have inflated list info and are no different in height than the guys he played in the 60s. Baylor was the same size as MWP, except he had unguardable fluidity and creativity offensively. Baylor is a blend of the fluidity of Kobe mixed with the power of Lebron. He's in between the two. U think a player built like that wouldn't put up numbers than you don't know basketball.[/QUOTE]
Inflated list info because they are listed with their shoes on, really? Also, he and Artest are not the same size, Ron's playing weight is 25-35lbs heavier than Baylor. I get that you romanticize these guys when you're making the vids, but I don't know how you can sit there and watch all that footage of Baylor and see that primitive handle and come to the conclusion he's a mix of Kobe and LeBron.
Just show me 1 perimeter guy today that is scoring 25+ppg with a game that resembles Baylors, and I mean with a really weak off-hand.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]Inflated list info because they are listed with their shoes on, really? Also, he and Artest are not the same size, Ron's playing weight is 25-35lbs heavier than Baylor. I get that you romanticize these guys when you're making the vids, but I don't know how you can sit there and watch all that footage of Baylor and see that primitive handle and come to the conclusion he's a mix of Kobe and LeBron.[/QUOTE]
Educate yourself
[url]http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/[/url]
[B]Draftexpress:[/B]
[QUOTE]Something you might notice is that up until sometime in the last 10-12 years, players were only measured without shoes at the main pre-draft camp. Players and various people who worked for teams had been complaining for years about barefoot measurements. Larry Johnson, the #1 overall pick in 1991 expressed his thoughts on the measurements after he came in an inch and a half below his listed height of 6’7”. "Ain't that pitiful?" Johnson said. [B]"You don't go out there with your shoes off. Ain't that right?"[/B]
In this case, Larry Johnson being a 6’5
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Educate yourself
[url]http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/[/url]
[B]Draftexpress:[/B]
And also, why is Dwight Howard gifted a 6-11 on NBA.com but only 6-10.25 in shoes (which may be from thicker shoes than he even plays in to begin with due to what is stated above). Why is Kevin Love gifted a 6-10 despite only being 6-7.75... is he wearing 2.25" shoes like a spice girl? C'mon man, there's no such thing as a consistent listing of players "in shoes" there never has been. Players just list whatever they want to list, and in this era players exaggerate a heck of a lot more than they did before the NBA became such a successful money machine. Players gotta keep their stocks high. But biologically players today aren't different than players then.[/QUOTE]
Shoes add inches to height, it's a variable, why does it bother you so much? Also, Dwight grew an inch after being drafted which is why he's listed at 6"11.
That really doesn't address how Baylor is supposed to score in todays league, I asked you to show me 1 perimeter player today that has put up 25+ppg with a crude handle like Baylors. I never said he'd be a scrub, I just said he wouldn't put up numbers like he did, perimeter play has advanced.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]Shoes add inches to height, it's a variable, why does it bother you so much? Also, Dwight grew an inch after being drafted which is why he's listed at 6"11.
That really doesn't address how Baylor is supposed to score in todays league, I asked you to show me 1 perimeter player today that has put up 25+ppg with a crude handle like Baylors. I never said he'd be a scrub, I just said he wouldn't put up numbers like he did, perimeter play has advanced.[/QUOTE]
U missing the point bro? U tried to assert players today are so much bigger than ones of his time. I'm pointing out to you that your wrong. P.S. Baylors handle isn't "crude" :roll:
Oh and MWP = 25ppg in '05. Nothing more needs said.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
Baylor had crude ball handling skills? Some people shouldn't be allowed to speak on things they have no clue about
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]Shoes add inches to height, it's a variable, why does it bother you so much? [B]Also, Dwight grew an inch after being drafted which is why he's listed at 6"11[/B].
That really doesn't address how Baylor is supposed to score in todays league, I asked you to show me 1 perimeter player today that has put up 25+ppg with a crude handle like Baylors. I never said he'd be a scrub, I just said he wouldn't put up numbers like he did, perimeter play has advanced.[/QUOTE]
Entirely baseless, and not true at all :roll:
Andre Iguadala would not go out of his way to say that Bill Russell (in his 70's) was taller than Dwight Howard if Dwight had grown an inch. Howard was listed 6-11 immediately upon being selected, there was no gap between the draft and his 6-11 list height on NBA.com. He was listed 6-11 because that's what he wanted to be listed.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]U missing the point bro? U tried to assert players today are so much bigger than ones of his time. I'm pointing out to you that your wrong. P.S. Baylors handle isn't "crude" :roll:
Oh and MWP = 25ppg in '05. Nothing more needs said.[/QUOTE]
He was 6"5, even if you add an inch and change for sneakers he's roughly the size of Andre Iguodala (SF), someone who isn't a prolific scorer and can't always get his own shot off. And his ball handling was crude when you're trying to draw a comparison to LeBron and Kobe, a mix of Kobe and LeBron would be the best player in the league by the way.
Really, Ron played 7 games that year, you know for the whole Palace thing, but apparently that didn't happen 50 years ago so you didn't know that.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]He was 6"5, even if you add an inch and change for sneakers he's roughly the size of Andre Iguodala (SF), someone who isn't a prolific scorer and can't always get his own shot off. And his ball handling was crude when you're trying to draw a comparison to LeBron and Kobe.
Really, Ron played 7 games that year, you know for the whole Palace thing, but apparently that didn't happen 50 years ago so you didn't know that.[/QUOTE]
My mistake on the MWP thing I didn't see he played only 7 games :oldlol:
But um.... Baylor is roughly the same height as Charles Barkley (PF), MJ (SG / SF), and Kobe (SG). and he's 1 inch taller than Wade (SG), and 6 inches taller than Iverson (PG) etc etc etc
6-5 players can flat out dominate offensively. Please, this discussion is ridiculous. Because he's 6-5 w/o shoes (MJ/Barkley/Kobe) he couldn't score today. :roll:
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Entirely baseless, and not true at all :roll:
Andre Iguadala would not go out of his way to say that Bill Russell (in his 70's) was taller than Dwight Howard if Dwight had grown an inch. Howard was listed 6-11 immediately upon being selected, there was no gap between the draft and his 6-11 list height on NBA.com. He was listed 6-11 because that's what he wanted to be listed.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
[quote]The Magic caught some heat for taking Howard over Emeka Okafor. But while Okafor has topped out at just under 6-10, Howard has grown an inch since the draft, arriving for training camp at right around 7-feet. "From what we understand, his growth plates still haven't closed, and there's continued growth to be expected," said coach Johnny Davis.[/quote]
[url]http://articles.nydailynews.com/2004-11-01/sports/18280029_1_lake-erie-johnny-davis-howard-over-emeka-okafor[/url]
An 18 year old kid growing, how shocking.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
"He was one of the most spectacular shooters the game has ever known", Baylor's longtime teammate Jerry West told HOOP magazine in 1992. "I hear people talking about forwards today and I haven't seen many that can compare with him."
Bill Sharman played against Baylor and coached him in his final years with the Lakers. "I say without reservation that Elgin Baylor is the greatest cornerman who ever played pro basketball", he told the Los Angeles Times at Baylor's retirement in 1971.
Tommy Hawkins, Baylor's teammate for six seasons and opponent for four (and later a basketball broadcaster) declared to the San Francisco Examiner that "pound for pound, no one was ever as great as Elgin Baylor." "Elgin certainly didn't jump as high as Michael Jordan", Hawkins told the San Francisco Examiner. "But he had the greatest variety of shots of anyone. He would take it in and hang and shoot from all these angles. Put spin on the ball. Elgin had incredible strength. He could post up Bill Russell. He could pass like Magic [Johnson] and dribble with the best guards in the league."
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]My mistake on the MWP thing I didn't see he played only 7 games :oldlol:
But um.... Baylor is roughly the same height as Charles Barkley (PF), MJ (SG / SF), and Kobe (SG). and he's 1 inch taller than Wade (SG), and 6 inches taller than Iverson (PG) etc etc etc
6-5 players can flat out dominate offensively. Please, this discussion is ridiculous. Because he's 6-5 w/o shoes (MJ/Barkley/Kobe) he couldn't score today. :roll:[/QUOTE]
Barkley was 270-280lbs, he's 1 of a kind.
And I don't understand why you keep listing guys who have more advanced one on one moves, the damn eye test look at Wade/Kobe/MJ and how they handle the ball in isolation, then go back and look at Baylor. It's just not the same, he was a small forward, you're talking about guys who are the same height as him that are shooting guards and are more fluid with better handles.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
Players today are way way better than player of the past.. Old people like jlauber is still living in the past.. He and some of the older poster here can accept the fact that basketball back then was weak.. Players of the 60's will not even make the league or if ever they make it, they will become scrub at best..
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]:rolleyes:
[url]http://articles.nydailynews.com/2004-11-01/sports/18280029_1_lake-erie-johnny-davis-howard-over-emeka-okafor[/url][/QUOTE]
My bad - the NY daily news says Dwight went from 6-9 to 7 feet tall now :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wPViLyRfLeI/UD17AkJNi1I/AAAAAAAADj8/JS4qa8lgOtk/s800/01_howard_russesll.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
Baylor would probably be listed at 6-7 today.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]My bad - the NY daily news says Dwight went from 6-9 to 7 feet tall now :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wPViLyRfLeI/UD17AkJNi1I/AAAAAAAADj8/JS4qa8lgOtk/s800/01_howard_russesll.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
So, foreground vs background, damn dude you're starting to break down with troll like attempts.
Here they are on a more even plane -
[IMG]http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/bill_russell_dwight_howard.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
By the way, I find it interesting that the Daily news isn't a viable source to you, but Chip McGee from the San Francisco Gazette circa 1963 saying Wilt could bench press a Soviet tank is a lot more believable.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]So, foreground vs background, damn dude you're starting to break down with troll like attempts.
Here they are on a more even plane -
[IMG]http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/bill_russell_dwight_howard.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Bill all hunkered down with Dwight 1 foot closer to the camera :roll: nice try
[url]http://phillyburbs.csnphilly.com/02/24/12/Iguodala-makes-his-pitch-for-Magics-Howa/landing.html?blockID=657716[/url]
[QUOTE=Andre Iguodala]
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]By the way, I find it interesting that the Daily news isn't a viable source to you, but Chip McGee from the San Francisco Gazette circa 1963 saying Wilt could bench press a Soviet tank is a lot more believable.[/QUOTE]
Drowning in defeat :lol
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Bill all hunkered down with Dwight 1 foot closer to the camera :roll: nice try
[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
Didn't you just try to post a picture of Russell much closer to the camera?
Also, when did Andre Iguodala become the lord of all things height related. Why are you so pressed too, Dwight growing an inch puts him at 6"11 in shoes, I have a source saying he grew an inch after getting drafted, all you have is Andre Iguodala's twitter feed.
I like how this has turned into an argument over Dwights height, and not the underlying issue which is Baylor would not be scoring 25+ppg, dude shot 43% for his career and you're trying to tell me he's gonna come into the league today and get buckets :coleman:
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Drowning in defeat :lol:[/QUOTE]
You proved my point too, Andre Iguodala with the visual tape measure is a better source than Dwight's own team.
By the way, Chris Bosh was 6"11 1/2 in shoes and 6"10 1/4 without -
[IMG]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1wadiijUe1qewi8do1_500.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.onemanfastbreak.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/usa_basketball_team.jpg[/IMG]
Dwight is 6"11 in shoes, deal with it.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
ITT: Some guy with no idea on how travel rules have evolved through the years attempts to argue about stuff he's never researched.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=Colbertnation64]ITT: Some guy with no idea on how travel rules have evolved through the years attempts to argue about stuff he's never researched.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
We've seen these guys play in international ball with much more strict rules in regards to traveling and carrying, they still have advanced handles. Keep moving the goal posts though.
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Re: Why do people always think if an older player played today they would be WAY better?
[QUOTE=abuC]:biggums:
Didn't you just try to post a picture of Russell much closer to the camera?
Also, when did Andre Iguodala become the lord of all things height related. Why are you so pressed too, Dwight growing an inch puts him at 6"11 in shoes, I have a source saying he grew an inch after getting drafted, all you have is Andre Iguodala's twitter feed.
I like how this has turned into an argument over Dwights height, and not the underlying issue which is Baylor would not be scoring 25+ppg, dude shot 43% for his career and you're trying to tell me he's gonna come into the league today and get buckets :coleman:[/QUOTE]
except that I have a source that claims he was only 6-9, and 6-10.25 in shoes + a player who says a 70 year old Bill Russell (who measured 6-9 and 5/8ths barefoot when young) is taller than Dwight Howard.
you have a source that claims he grew an inch to the full "7 feet tall" (funny, seeing as how he only ever measured 6-9... or at best, 6-10.25 "with the shoes he brought to draft camp") meaning said source never did any legit research in the first place to learn that Dwight never in fact measured to 6-11. That same 6-11 height that u tried to use as an excuse to say "well Dwight got listed 6-11 cause he grew an inch". No. Dwight listed 6-11 immediately cause players exaggerate their size to inflate their stock. That article wouldn't have come up with such a phony 6-11 to 7-0 claim to begin with if this wasn't true :oldlol: , they even tried to exaggerate his height further to 7-0 :oldlol: The article is straight up flawed from the get go. It aint credible bro.
The NBA, where players get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. [COLOR="White"]On paper[/COLOR]