Just around the corner.
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Just around the corner.
The Jazz will send a team to the Orlando Pro Summer League on July 9-13.
O
Jefferson or Millsap, who won't return?
Also, is so obvious the Warrior are tanking. How does the protected pick work? Is it based on the actual W-L record or where the team's lottery ball drops?
[QUOTE=DMV2]Jefferson or Millsap, who won't return?[/quote]
Millsap needs to be signed to an extention. Should be at the top of the agenda. He and Hayward are the 2 they need to be building around right now. Both would be hard to replace with anyone better for their system.
[quote]Also, is so obvious the Warrior are tanking. How does the protected pick work? Is it based on the actual W-L record or where the team's lottery ball drops?[/QUOTE]
I believe it's where they finish not where the lottery balls bounce.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]
I believe it's where they finish not where the lottery balls bounce.[/QUOTE]
That's so lame! They need to change that rule otherwise, teams would just tank.
[url]http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=20044305&nid=304&title=jazz-moves-must-revolve-around-favors-hayward[/url]
[quote]They begin with Derrick Favors, who has showed enough promise to demand increased playing time. Starting next season, and probably spanning the next decade, the 6-foot- 10 high-flying talent needs to play at least 30 minutes a game.
As the Jazz approach this off-season, recognizing that it could determine the level of the team's success for the next several years, management has got to make it a priority to allow Favors to develop. Any trades or other moves should be made with the 20-year-old's future in mind.
For much of this season, Coach Ty Corbin has seemed reluctant to play Favors at the expense of Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap. It's obvious the second-year coach prefers experience over youth.
But the future can't wait. As solid as the experienced players are, Corbin has to figure out a way for them to complement Favors.
If necessary, Jazz management has to force Corbin's hand. The point is trade Jefferson or Millsap to open more time for Favors.[/quote]
I realize this seems to be the popular opinion but watching the team it seems obvious the 27 year old Millsap and Hayward are the two guys they need to be building around until the other young guys prove otherwise. Favors has it defensively but he has a long ways to go to pay Jazz ball at the other end. Kanter and Burks look more like Jazz players at the offensive end. I'm all for trading Al to get Favors and Kanter more time though.
[quote]As the primary options, Jefferson and Millsap have taken this team has far as they can.[/quote]
Doesn't mean you trade Millsap.
[quote] Bailey lists Hayward as potentially the team's best all-around player.[/quote]
He and Millsap already are. Burks has the skillset to join them. The mindset remains to be seen...
[quote]Hayward might be the most untradeable player.[/quote]
And Millsap.
[quote]Not a bad starting point.[/quote]
Millsap and G yes.
[quote]Utah general manager Kevin O
Alex Kennedy: Earl Watson has a torn medial meniscus. He underwent arthroscopic knee surgery last Tuesday and will miss the remainder of the season. Twitter
That leaves the Warriors one game ahead of New Jersey and Toronto, who play each other Thursday night in Toronto. So at least one of those teams will end up with a 23-43 record. Golden State plays host to San Antonio Thursday and with a loss, the Warriors would end up with a 23-43 record and tie for the seventh worst record.
If the Warriors end up in a tie at 23-43, then the league will flip a coin to determine the draft order.
So for the Jazz to get a first-round draft choice they lost their own by making the playoffs and must forfeit it to Minnesota they need Golden State to beat the Spurs, who will likely be resting their starters. But who knows how motivated the Warriors will be to win and perhaps lose out on a No. 8 or better draft pick.
If the Warriors lose, it would be up to a coin flip to see if the Jazz get a first-round pick or must wait until another year to get the Warriors selection.
[quote]David Locke
NBA Scout on Derrick Favors "I think he is growing, he has a ways to go. He has a presence on the floor, he is a big body at the rim on both ends, he can challenge shots, he doesn't block every shot but people know that he is there. He is physical. I think he is still growing into his body. He is young he is going to put on more muscle. If he can keep the quickness with the weight he puts on he will get better and better."[/quote]
The questions that come with him mostly come at the offensive end and with his motor. His jumper looked pretty good against the Spurs. His post game needs a lot of work.
[quote]In the wake of serious injuries that have decimated Team USA's roster of Olympic finalists, sources said Kentucky big man and projected No. 1 pick Anthony Davis has been selected as a replacement candidate to compete in the London Games this summer. USA Basketball chairman Jerry Colangelo and the coaching staff headed by Mike Krzyzewski will be adding one other player, with both picks expected to be announced later Wednesday. According to sources, players under consideration were Pistons center Greg Monroe, Jazz center Al Jefferson and Kings center DeMarcus Cousins. But Cousins, sources said, has been invited to the Select team -- which will train with Team USA before the Olympics -- and is not the other finalist addition. SI.com
There's a chance that Colangelo could make even more additions, especially if the injuries continue to mount. It was believed that there were five vacancies in all, but it appears there are four after Colangelo told reporters in Las Vegas on Tuesday that Mavericks forward Lamar Odom is still under consideration. Odom, one of the original finalists, was thought to be out of contention after a tumultuous season in which Dallas deactivated him. Still, sources said it's unlikely that Odom will be on the final roster of 12. SI.com[/quote]
Jefferson doesn't seem to be a good fit based on what we've seen from the team the past 6 years. Millsap would seem to be a better fit.
Jerry Colangelo said Al Jefferson was given great consideration to be added to the list of Olympic finalists. But it ultimately was decided to go another route. Sulia
[quote]While discussing the strength of San Antonio's pick-and-roll offense
[quote]Draymond Green To Work Out For Celtics, Expects To Be First Round Pick
May 07, 2012 11:04 PM EDT
Draymond Green expects to be selected in the NBA draft somewhere in the first round.
"I hear I could go anywhere from 20 to 30," Green said. "But you never know, so I'm going to control what I can control and that's to be ready for any and every opportunity I get to show what I can do."
Green, who has accepted an invitation to the NBA's predraft camp in Chicago, said he has a workout scheduled May 22 with the Celtics. He also has drawn interest from Miami, Indiana, San Antonio, Golden State, Cleveland, Detroit, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Sacramento, Utah and New York.
"I'm not going to worry about getting tired because I've been grinding my whole life," he said. "Some teams are going to bring me in as a 3 and some as a 4 to see how I deal with quickness or length. I'm sure I'll be going against some 6-10 guys and some shorter and quick guys.
"If teams ask me if I think I'm a power or a small forward my answer is going to be, `I'm a player.' I don't want to be classified, I just want a chance to play."
[/quote]
How does this guy make any sense for the Jazz? Can he shoot?
[quote]Corbin said Derrick Favors proved himself this season, especially during the playoffs. Favors could start for the Jazz next year, but much remains to be determined.[/quote]
Only thing that should be determined is who they can unload Jefferson on and how soon.
[quote]Corbin expects to keep his staff intact next season and doesn't plan to add anyone. If his assistants have other opportunities, though, he'll allow them to speak with other teams.
Corbin said Utah might make key moves during the offseason and acknowledged the Jazz must improve their outside shooting. But if Utah basically has the same team next season, he's ready to go to work and improve.[/quote]
If they have basically the same team i.e. Jefferson and Harris, O'Conner needs to get canned. Need a veteran wing that can shoot(not Raja though I'm guessing he is done in Utah) and a young pg and possibly a veteran pg though I'm ok with Tinsley depending on what other moves they can make. A veteran big man to be their 4th or 5th big once Favors, Kanter and possibly Evans move up the ranks with Jefferson's departure.
[quote]Corbin's excited about Utah's future and the young pieces the Jazz have in place. But he continually said it's an important summer for the team's and the organization's development.
Asked if the Jazz exceeded expectations, Corbin said Utah met them. The playoffs were a reminder of how far the Jazz have to go.
Corbin said Favors has the potential to become a player the Jazz can build around. Corbin added it's a big summer for Enes Kanter and Favors.
[/quote]
And Burks? Evans too?
[quote]Corbin's open to having Jerry Sloan help the team out during the future in any way he wants. [/quote]
Interesting! Phil Johnson? I guess he's still around anyway with the tv gig? What about the Mailman helping the young bigs? Hopefully the young pg will get to work with Stockton like Deron did.
[quote]Corbin said it was his decision not to play Raja Bell during playoffs and the move was "on him."[/quote]
What move? Leaving him on the bench seemed like the only move he could make. Howard at least had a strong game before the playoffs and called the Spurs killer with Dallas. Raja had sucked when he came back from injury earlier in the year too.
[quote]Corbin said Gordon Hayward might participate in Summer League. If not all, at least some.[/quote]
I'd expect him there at least working on his shooting especially after a disappointing playoff.
[quote]DeMarre Carroll
All indications are he will return to the Jazz next season, and Carroll said Utah informed him they'll pick up his option.[/quote]
No brainer. Wonder if that affects Howard at all? I'd welcome him back to at the right price.
[quote]Derrick Favors
Favors said he finally feels like he's in the NBA. He wants to be a starter next year, take his career to the next level and do everything possible to succeed.
After his exit meeting, Favors spoke with Jazz General Manager Kevin O'Connor and Corbin about starting for the Jazz next season.[/quote]
Changes coming!
[quote]Raja Bell
Bell does not expect to return to Jazz next year.
Bell hopes the Jazz do the right thing and move him before the 2012-13 season. He was open to it before the trade deadline but never asked for trade.
Bell said Corbin was "unprofessional" at the end of the season. According to Bell, Corbin made things personal by playing everyone in the playoffs except for him and it was obvious.
Bell said if he's still on Jazz at the start of next season "we'll cross that bridge" then.
Bell said NBA referees and San Antonio coaches/players asked why he wasn't playing during the playoffs. They never understood what the Jazz were doing.
Bell wanted to move on after his March confrontation with Corbin and thought the Jazz were going to, since they publicly said they would. Bell said Utah was two-faced and Corbin obviously punished him for the remainder of the year.
Bell said there were times this season he didn't know he was active until he was informed pregame by the media.
C.J. Miles
Miles said the team was put off by Al Jefferson's pre-Game 4 comments about no one beating the Spurs in the playoffs and San Antonio being better than Utah.
Miles loves the Jazz, the team's fans and thinks Corbin will evolve. But he never knew what was expected of him this year.
Miles said communication was much better with former coach Jerry Sloan, and Corbin has struggled relaying his message to team.
Miles: "I don't even remember us naming a captain, but they wanted leadership."
Miles wanted to play in Game 4 but said he wasn't allowed to.
Miles said he's not the type of person to speak out but he couldn't hold back anymore. He spent a long time with the Jazz, always did what the team asked of him and wanted the situation to work. But he felt the Jazz didn't treat him right this season and couldn't hold his tongue.[/quote]
Raja was a Sloan favorite too. Another sign of the change that's happened. It's official! CJ and Raja gone. :violin:
[quote]
Devin Harris
Harris is "excited" to enter a contract year. He knows he started slowly and didn't initially play well this season. But he feels like he found his game at end of year.
Harris acknowledged communication with Corbin has been an issue. Harris said his relationship with Corbin improved as the season went on and he thinks Corbin will figure things out over time.[/quote]
The game he found is better suited elsewhere. Package deal: Harris/Jefferson/Bell/possibly Watson and or Tinsley(depending on other moves)?
[quote]Kanter says: "This year I learned so much. I learned so much from Al (Jefferson), from the playoffs and (Tim) Duncan. When I wasn't on the court, I watched what other players did. I'm going to work on my post moves and my passes and get more faster."[/quote]
He knows what he needs to work on. I expect him to make huge strides.
Bell comes across as a major league whiner, but the fact that multiple players say he needs to work on his communication skills probably means Corbin isn't entirely blameless in it. Just chalk it up to another learning experience for an inexperienced head coach.
Other players said communication with him was fine. It appears to be divided between the guys that were playing and not playing. Sloan loved Bell so it's not surprising him saying they communicated beter. CJ is a little more surprising but it sounds like he might just have Raja's back on this one and probably saw the writing on the wall anyway and knew he wouldn't be back so what the hell.
[quote]Favors has excelled for the Jazz and he looks to challenge incumbent starter Paul Millsap at the power forward position next season. Millsap has been dangled as trade bait over the last few seasons and his status on the team is something the Jazz must figure out over the summer.
If Utah feels that Favors is the player they want starting at the four both next year and for many years to come, the time is now to get some value for Millsap via trade. Millsap, who
[quote]Among the more revealing comments during Tuesday
[url]http://www.deseretnews.com/top/660/0/Top-10-NBA-free-agents-the-Utah-Jazz-should-target-in-the-2012-offseason.html[/url]
[QUOTE]Traditionally, the Jazz haven't made much of a splash in free agency. It's hard to lure big names to the Beehive State, even with extra cash. (Sorry, Jazz fans -- players like Ray Allen and Jason Terry are not walking through that door.) [/QUOTE]
Funny the Jazz were the first to sign Terry as a free agent. They probably want to go for rings but who knows if you give someone a chance for a big role and enough money and security? They'd both certainly be great to see running around screens in the Jazz offense.
[quote]Given the Jazz's inconsistent point-guard play in 2012, Dragic could push Devin Harris for the starting job immediately.[/quote]
LOL! I doubt he signs if he's not starting. He'd make Harris look silly running the offense as Tinsley has.
[quote] Ersan Ilyasova[/quote]
He's a couple years younger than Millsap and has more range but other than that how do they figure? He's going to be paid more than Millsap too at least next season. Only place I'd be looking for young guys is at that the 1. They need vets as the playoffs showed.
[quote] Batum's a versatile player who could fill a number of gaps if C.J. Miles and Josh Howard move on.[/quote]
If CJ moves on? Think it's when not if at this point. I think they need a more seasoned veteran wing to replace Raja with Hayward and Burks already in place maybe a couple if Howard leaves not that they have any chance at Batum.
Rush could fit and might be gettable. He might make some sense.
Novak I say no unless he comes cheap for the end of the bench and I doubt that is happening.
[quote] He's stuck behind Kevin Martin (when he's healthy) in Houston, so Lee might prefer a change of scenery and a starting job if he can get one. Houston would probably be inclined to match, though. [/quote]
Martin seems more likely and maybe a better fit anyway. Lee would be nice but he's restricted and they want to get rid of Martin and keep Lee I think.
Belinelli maybe. Might be had
[quote] Carlos Delfino[/quote]
He might do.
[quote] Mo Williams[/quote]
Don't see him as a great fit though a huge upgrade over Harris. Not worth the price they'd have to pay though. I'd want him coming off the bench of the ball which is where Devin should be.
[quote] the Suns have made it clear that they won't bring Nash back to the desert. He'll probably go to a contending team with a chance at a championship. But unlikely though it may be, if the Jazz could land [/quote]
The Suns haven't made it clear that he won't be back. How do these guys get their jobs?
Despite all the talk of NY never letting Lin go it sounds like he is a possible get. The way he ran the pick and roll during Linsanity he'd have to be a guy the Jazz would seriously look at especially if they can't draft a pg.
[quote]Lin will be what
[quote]Kevin O
[url]http://www.deseretnews.com/top/660/11/Jerryd-Bayless-PG-Toronto-restricted-Top-20-NBA-free-agents-the-Utah-Jazz-should-target-in-the.html[/url]
They added to the list.
Bayless might be ok as a combo guard off the bench.
Rudy might be ok if it wasn't for the fact that he's always talking about wanting to be ack in Europe. I'd probably stay away from him. Too hard to keep happy.
[quote] Andre Miller, PG, Denver (unrestricted)
Previous salary: $7.8 million
Could the former Utah Utes star end his career in a Jazz uniform? He's shown he can still perform in a backup role in Denver, averaging 9.7 points and 6.7 assists in 28 minutes per game. But his high price tag and poor outside shooting might make him a liability. The Jazz would have to consider if Miller would bring anything to the table that Jamaal Tinsley and Earl Watson don't. [/quote]
High price tag? He had to settle for a lot less than he's worth last contract. He's likely going to get even less. Bargain! He's a better shooter than Earl and just an overall better player than both Tinsley and Watson. Unless they get Nash I'd say he should be a top target. He could start in Utah depending on who else they get.
Shannon Brown might be alright off the bench too.
Doubt they can get Fields and with Burks and Hayward not sure why they would target him?
Brooks might work but he's ideally not their type unless things change under Ty reign or he wants to come off the bench which I doubt he does unless he has to.
Not sure Augustin is their type either
Farmar might work as a back-up depending on who else they get.
Hill would be a nice bench guy too but I doubt Indiana lets him go.
I don't see any need for AK with what we saw from Hayward the past couple months.
[quote]Hayward played the most of the four, earning a starting spot in his second year and averaging 11.8 points and 3.5 rebounds, while starting 58 of 66 games.
He plans to spend most of his summer in his hometown of Indianapolis working out.
Perhaps it's the bad memory of the last two playoff games when he made only 1 of 18 field goal attempts, but Hayward said his main goal in the offseason is "to become an elite-level shooter."
He also said he wants to "develop strength and use my athleticism to take it to the rim and get to the free-throw line some more."[/quote]
All the obvious things he needs to work on.
[quote]Favors is going to Santa Barbara to work out with teammates Al Jefferson and Kanter. He said there are specific things he needs to work on.
"I need to get stronger and a little bit more explosive and work on my conditioning," he said.
"I want to improve my offensive game, improve my jump shot and just improve overall."[/quote]
His post game and passing need the most work.
[quote]Corbin singled Kanter out as the player who had come the furthest during the season.[/quote]
Not much doubt. You could see it from game to game.
[quote]The former Colorado star has a knack for getting to the basket and drawing fouls and many folks believe he can be an NBA starter if he develops a consistent jump shot. He said there's not one specific thing he's working on this summer.
"It's not just one thing, but I need to work on everything to become a more complete player," he said. "I need to get better by doing everything I can."[/quote]
Not much doubt he can be a starter in the league. He arguably could have been starting this year. His jump shot will be fine I think. He just needs to put up shots in the summer. Playing within the team concept is what will define how good he can be with the Jazz. He did improve as the season wore on.
[QUOTE]The former Jazz forward was quoted this week by Reuters, saying that returning to Utah is an option. His first option among NBA teams.
This season he played in Russia for CSKA.
But King, Williams and Prokhorov will also be getting a close look at CSKA star Andrei Kirilenko, a name very familiar to NBA fans after playing 10 years for the Jazz, including together with Williams from the day the point guard was drafted until he was dealt to the Nets. While multiple sources flatly denied a report last week that said a verbal agreement between Kirilenko and the Nets was imminent, The Post did confirm that the team has monitored the versatile 6-foor-10 forward
[quote]Tinsley and Howard might even be back next season. "You never commit to anything because you
[quote]The Jazz should set their sights on acquiring ex-Utah guard Mo Williams, a.k.a. Kevin O'Connor's Regret.
To this day, the Jazz general manager ranks not re-signing Williams in 2004 among his biggest mistakes. The team thought Williams was OK, but it already had Carlos Arroyo and Raul Lopez, then signed Keith McLeod and Howard Eisley for the next season. That's not a special group of guards, but the Jazz didn't think Williams was special, either, or they would have kept him.
Thus, Utah became a no-go for Mo.[/quote]
Unless he wants to come off the bench for the right price I don't see it. He makes almost the same as Harris right now and is obviously a huge upgrade over Chops but he's not a great fit. They could use what he brings off the bench probably especially off the ball which is where Harris would serve best as well.
[quote]Al Jefferson on Derrick Favors' potential: "He feel like he can just jump over and dunk over everybody. Once he learn how to play the game, it's going to be trouble. I hope I'm his teammate for the rest of my career."[/quote]
Are you willing to come off the bench and take a huge pay cut to do it?
[quote]
Millsap on his upcoming contract year: "I'm hoping to stay here forever."[/quote]
Get it done O'Conner. Never any mention of Jefferson or Harris extentions?
[quote] Miller is one of three free agents the Nuggets have to make decisions on this summer, the first normal NBA calendar since 2010. It's likely the Nuggets will attempt to bring him back after his at-times spectacular playoff series against the Lakers. Miller is the only unrestricted free agent on the roster, so the decision to stay or leave is solely his. "I'll keep my options open," Miller said. "At this point in my career, if I'm going to be a backup, I'm going to be a backup on a championship-caliber team. Obviously, this team is a good team that's going to get to the playoffs, but the thing is if they are committed to getting to that next level to compete for that championship." Denver Post
"I want to be on a team that's going to compete for a championship, and not use youth as a crutch or inexperience as a crutch," Miller said. "This team does have guys that can compete and can get out of the first round. It's just whether I can swallow my pride and deal with being a backup point guard. I have no problem with it, but at the same time I definitely still see myself as a starter in this league. Like I said, you have to swallow your pride sometimes. These young guys are coming in and they're working for it. So, that's just part of the business that I'm learning." Denver Post[/quote]
You can start in Utah!
[quote]Corbin didn't tip his hand as to whether or not he'd lean to starting them together next season, but if Millsap can become even more adept at guarding small forwards and hitting some threes, it's at least an intriguing option.
Millsap was asked about his previous insistence that he's a starting power forward, something he proved capable of doing in his sixth season.
"I am," Millsap said. With a smile, he added, "I can also be a starting small forward."[/quote]
I think that's stupid. He's too good of a 4 to start him at the 3. Jefferson has to go as much as the Jazz love continuity.
[quote]O'Connor even hinted Harris could take on more of a shooting guard role and said the Jazz will "explore" the best option for the point guard position.
Fans can only wonder if that means the team might target one of the draft's multiple standout point guards, including Weber State's Damian Lillard, or if it will pursue an intriguing unrestricted free agent like, say,[/quote]
Cool! If they keep Harris he should be 6th man playing off the ball. He's not a floor general.
I know you've made up your mind about Jefferson needing to go - but what about the "big 3" starting lineup of Jefferson, Millsap and Favors, with the frequent rotation of Hayward?
James Harden averaged over 30 mins a game coming off the bench this year for OKC - don't see why you couldn't give all four of the above guys decent minutes.
What say you?
Also, we need a shooting guard. A real one. At $3.2m Raja Bell is just eating up cash, and Burks is still green. Belinelli? Jamal Crawford?
After conceding the series to the Spurs after game 3 Jefferson definitely has to go. Not one reason to keep a guy like that around. Millsap is too good of a 4 to start at the 3.
Not sure Crawford has the IQ to play in Utah. Bellini maybe. I'd rather have Ray Allen, Kevin Martin or Micheal Redd coming off screens. Raja Bell was doing ok before his injury but he wants out. Send him on his way. Earl doesn't want to be a 3rd stringer send him down the road. CJ bye bye. Devin Harris unless they move him to the bench at the 2 has to go as well. First priority really.
When we asked last week if Deron Williams and family were headed for Moscow, we were told by a team insider, "stay tuned." Well, shortly after 6:30 a.m, Amy Williams tweeted, "Greetings from Russia!!!" (That's three exclamation points, we note). No word on whether they arrived with Mikhail Prokhorov, on his plane or what the family's plans are, but better Moscow than Dallas. NetsDaily
Last week, Masha Kirilenko, Andrei Kirilenko's wife, said the two couples would be going to Russia together. AK-47 may have a difficult time playing host. CSKA Moscow suffered one of the devastating losses in basketball history Sunday night in Istanbul, going from 19 up with 12 minutes left to a one-point loss in the last second, with D-Will and Prokhorov in attendance. NetsDaily
[quote]O'Connor also talked about using Harris more as a shooting guard next year. But he didn't say who might be the point guard in those situations besides the present point guards.[/quote]
Only way I can see keeping him assuming it's off the bench.
[quote]Because the Jazz usually keep three point guards, there is speculation they might try to find one through free agency or in the draft.
As of right now, the Jazz don't have a first-round draft choice unless Golden State falls to No. 8 in the upcoming lottery. It is rumored the Jazz would love a shot at Weber State point guard Damian Lillard, whom they've seen up close for three years, and is projected to be gone by the middle of the first round.
So if the Jazz were to look at the free agent list, who could they get?
Steve Nash is an unrestricted free agent and he'd be an intriguing possibility. But he is 38 years old and wouldn't be a long-term solution. Same with Andre Miller, who is 36 years old, although he would be an upgrade as the backup point.[/quote]
Would be an upgrade as the starter. Probably the only way he comes to Utah.
[quote]Other unrestricted free agent point guards include Portland's Raymond Felton, Atlanta's Kirk Hinrich, Dallas' Jason Kidd, Indiana's Leandro Barbosa and Houston's Goran Dragic. Among those free agents with a player option are Orlando's Jameer Nelson, the Nets' Jordan Farmar and the Clippers' Mo Williams.[/quote]
If it wasn't for this past season Felton might have been high on their list. Hinrich would be nice as a back-up at both guard spots. I wouldn't want Kidd. Barbosa isn't a pg. If Harris isn't playing in the role he'd be a nice 6th man. Dragic shoud be 1 or 2 on their list with Nash. Nelson would be better than Harris. Not sure he's a great fit though. Farmer might be nice as a back-up.