-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin][IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/287d81u.png[/IMG]
no other player in history has done it
the only other guy on his team that might make it will be as an international contributor
Pau Gasols individual nba accolades arent up to par
4 reserve allstar selections
1 third team all nba
2 second team all nba's
0-16 in the playoffs without kobe bryant
just as a comparison.. this is anfernee hardaways career
4 starting allstar selections
2 first team all nba's
1 third team all nba
9 playoff wins without shaq
now.. say anfernee hardaway lucked out 2 rings with the suns behind jason kidd.. even if he had 2 good years.. he still wouldnt be a hall of famer.
and making the hall of fame based on winning olympic silver medals or euro competition gold isnt exactly on the same level as an nba hall of famer. considering that if an american wins a silver medal or some second rate international gold. that wouldnt get them a hall of fame nomination. plus its allot easier to be the best player on a euro national team than it is on the US team[/QUOTE]
By this logic, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, among others, did the same thing. None of their teammates were Hall of Famers at the time they won championships.
Gasol WILL be in the Hall one day. His international career guarantees that.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=sportjames23]By this logic, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, among others, did the same thing. None of their teammates were Hall of Famers at the time they won championships.
Gasol WILL be in the Hall one day. [B]His international career[/B] guarantees that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another [SIZE="5"]NBA[/SIZE] HOF team mate[/QUOTE]
......
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
op being a *** again. gasol is a hofer. go cry about it.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i never said he had no chance. i said he has a 50% chance infact... but it wont be solely based on his nba resume
even you gotta admit i'm not that far off by saying kobe won without another nba hall of fame team mate
otherwise we might aswell throw in guys like rasheed wallace
if you wanna lower the standard of what a hof'r is just to mess with kobe or his fans.. go ahead.
but you couldnt look at anyone with a straight face and say pau gasoft is a hall of fame talent.[/QUOTE]
Actually I could. I think Gasol absolutely is a hall of fame talent.
Again. What is the point of this thread? Many star players have won titles with 2nd options worse than 09 and 10 Gasol.
So I still don't see the point.
Do you really think 17/10/3/1/2 57% TS 20.8 PER career playoff performers with 3 finals appearances and 2 titles as the clear cut 2nd best player grow on trees?
You brought up Rasheed Wallace...lets have a look;
14/6/2/1/1 52% TS 15.5 PER career playoffs
1 title he averaged 13/8/2
05 finals appearance he averaged 14/7/1
Wallace played 16 years in the league. Gasol has already played 12 years.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=Heavincent]Funny how you agree with blatant trolls such as secund2nun. I thought you were an objective and unbiased poster?[/QUOTE]
Sorry...it's trolling to claim Gasol is not a hall of famer.
Or come up with this absurd notion that Gasol wasn't a beast in 09 and 10.
I keep asking what the point of this thread is? Because we all know 09 and 10 Gasol was better than a lot of 2nd options that players have won with.
03 Parker, 11 Terry, and 13 Wade were all clearly worse than 10 Gasol.
I'd also argue that 07 Parker and 04 Billups or Hamilton (whoever you choose as the 2nd best player) was worse as well.
So I don't see the point of this thread at all.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]if thats the case then who isnt a hall of famer
how many guys in the nba dont around 4 reserve allstar games and a single 2nd team all nba
and his current average isnt even what he'l retire with
considering
2011 - 18.8ppg, 52%
2012 - 17.4ppg, 50%
2013 - 13.7ppg, 46%
he'l play 4-5 more years
projected
best case
2014 - 17ppg
2015 - 16ppg
2016 - 16ppg
2017 - 14ppg
2018 - 12ppg
worst case
2014 - 14ppg
2015 - 13ppg
2016 - 13ppg
2017 - 11ppg
2018 - 9ppg
no matter what.. his career average will drop from 18/9 to around 16/8
and worst case ( based on his current body conditioning ) ... his career average will drop from 18/9 to 15/7
so even with just 1 post prime drop off season. his career average is boarderline hall of famer
[SIZE="5"]
by the time hes retired.. he wont have a chance in hell at making it [/SIZE]
shaq had a 27ppg career average... it dropped to 24ppg after his last few years of being tossed around hanging onto his playing days[/QUOTE]
Gasol was the best player in the 2010 finals...surely that makes this whole thread irrelevant
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Though Gasol will certainly make the HOF, having the HOF label is irrelevant in terms of actual play. I'm a huge Wade fan but he clearly didn't play like a HOFer for the majority of the '13 playoffs. Gasol on the other hand was outstanding during both championship runs.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
If you look at most productive championship second options since the 00s Gasol would be number 2 behind Kobe. To me he's above Wade putting 12 and 13 together and weighing them against 09 and 10 together, as well as above 08 Pierce, 07 (and 03, obviously) Parker, 05 Ginobili, 04 Hamilton, 06 Shaq, and 11 Terry.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Gasol not a HOF?
[IMG]http://replygif.net/i/599.gif[/IMG]
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
There's literally no chance of Pau not being an HOFer.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Even Derek Fisher will probably make the HOF. Wouldn't be surprised is L.O. And Metta make it too.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=NumberSix][IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2ihv21x.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:bowdown:
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]will yao ming be a real hall of famer when he makes it under his nominated internation induction?
how many times do i have to say
[SIZE="6"]
kobe had no other NBA hall of fame team mate
read the title idiots[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
You say that as if it is a fact. Which it isn't.
And again. What is the point?
We all know that Kidd in 11 was much worse than Pau in 10. So what does the distinction matter?
Parker in 03 was way worse. Wade in 13 was way worse...etc.
So what is the point?
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]
[SIZE="6"]
kobe had no other NBA hall of fame team mate
read the title idiots[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
You do this a lot with all the shit you've convinced yourself is true over the years. Just because you declare it or say it over and over again doesn't make it fact. Kinda reminds me of the episode of The Office where Michael wanted to declare bankruptcy and thought all he had to do was stand in the middle of the office and shout "I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!!!", and it was done.
So, you can keep telling yourself Gasol is not an NBA HOFer, but he is. All his international success has done is make it stone cold lead pipe lock. But if he was just trying to get in on the merits of his NBA career, that'd eventually happen too.
Not to mention the simple-minded ignorance of trying to pass it off as something as simple as "no other NBA HOF teammate". People have already pointed out multiple examples from the lad 10+ years alone where '09 and '10 Gasol was better than the second option on some other championship teams.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Pau Gasol is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. This isn't even debatable.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]will yao ming be a real hall of famer when he makes it under his nominated internation induction?
how many times do i have to say
[SIZE="6"]
kobe had no other NBA hall of fame team mate
read the title idiots[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Since there is no NBA hall of fame, are you saying that the HOF commitee will specifically cite Gasol's international career as the reason for his induction? It's a legitimate question because I don't know how that works, but it seems rather unlikely especially for a guy who had a long productive NBA career.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=jzek]Pau Gasol is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. This isn't even debatable.[/QUOTE]
reggie miller and dennis rodman were 2nd ballot
:facepalm
1st ballot is reserved for legends you idiot
:facepalm
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html?redir[/url]
Here is one method showing Gasol has a higher probability of making the HOF on his NBA resume than not.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Pau will probably make the HOF before Kobe.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=NumberSix]There's literally no chance of Pau not being an HOFer.[/QUOTE]
And hell, since OP is being so simple-minded with this HOF nonsense....
How about Kobe leading 3 other HOFers to 47 wins and a 7-seed last year? I mean if we're just going to ignore context and manipulate information to fit agendas, that has to be just as damming to his career resume as, "Kobe winning multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate," is good for his career resume.
So, in a sense, Kobe winning multiple championships without a HOF teammate was cancelled out by leading 3 other HOFers the 7-seed and 47 wins. Right?
:confusedshrug:
Is it really that easy to be a Kobe stan? Just pretend things like context and logic don't exist and go bananas?
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Pau will probably make the HOF before Kobe.[/QUOTE]
its possible
kobe may play 5 more years. pau 3-4 if his legs/feet dont hold up
and itel be as an international contributor :cheers:
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]its possible
kobe may play 5 more years. pau 3-4 if his legs/feet dont hold up
and itel be as an international contributor :cheers:[/QUOTE]
Will Kobe make the HOF as a franchise player or as a sidekick?
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Pau gasol is a HoF lock. Oscar Schmidt is in the HoF
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=DMAVS41][url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html?redir[/url]
Here is one method showing Gasol has a higher probability of making the HOF on his NBA resume than not.[/QUOTE]
you just owned yourself
btw thanks for pointing out kobe is the only 100% guaranteed hof'er in the nba
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9991
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9867
7. Paul Pierce 0.9827
8. Ray Allen 0.9663
9. Chris Bosh 0.9484
10. Chris Paul 0.8911
11. Tony Parker 0.8319
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8167
13. Dwight Howard 0.8072
[B]14. Vince Carter 0.7678[/B]
15. Kevin Durant 0.7203
16. Pau Gasol 0.6127
[B]17. Tracy McGrady 0.5822[/B]
18. Steve Nash 0.5627
[B]19. Amar'e Stoudemire 0.5560[/B]
the bold wont make the HOF
and dont you find it funny how durant has .10 more points on his HOF possibility than gasol when gasols nearly finished his career and durant has barely started his
plus.. durant hasnt done anything yet except win scoring titles. and even if his career ended tomorrow he'd have no chance ( with .10 points more than gasol )
infact. nash without his 2 mvps would have no shot at the HOF either
only guys who are hall of famers if they retired tomorrow on that list are
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9991
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9867
7. Paul Pierce 0.9827
8. Ray Allen 0.9663
9. Chris Bosh 0.9484
10. Chris Paul 0.8911
11. Tony Parker 0.8319
with a wild card exception for nash due to his mvps
which basically means you need around 0.80+ to make it
gasols nowhere close as far as NBA accolades
sorry. thanks for proving my point for me
:cheers:
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]you just owned yourself
btw thanks for pointing out kobe is the only 100% guaranteed hof'er in the nba
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9991
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9867
7. Paul Pierce 0.9827
8. Ray Allen 0.9663
9. Chris Bosh 0.9484
10. Chris Paul 0.8911
11. Tony Parker 0.8319
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8167
13. Dwight Howard 0.8072
[B]14. Vince Carter 0.7678[/B]
15. Kevin Durant 0.7203
16. Pau Gasol 0.6127
[B]17. Tracy McGrady 0.5822[/B]
18. Steve Nash 0.5627
[B]19. Amar'e Stoudemire 0.5560[/B]
the bold wont make the HOF
and dont you find it funny how durant has .10 more points on his HOF possibility than gasol when gasols nearly finished his career and durant has barely started his
plus.. durant hasnt done anything yet except win scoring titles. and even if his career ended tomorrow he'd have no chance ( with .10 points more than gasol )
infact. nash without his 2 mvps would have no shot at the HOF either
only guys who are hall of famers if they retired tomorrow on that list are
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9991
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9867
7. Paul Pierce 0.9827
8. Ray Allen 0.9663
9. Chris Bosh 0.9484
10. Chris Paul 0.8911
11. Tony Parker 0.8319
with a wild card exception for nash due to his mvps
which basically means you need around 0.80+ to make it
[B]gasols nowhere close as far as NBA accolades[/B]
sorry. thanks for proving my point for me
:cheers:[/QUOTE]
What's with the obsession of accolades? All that matters is how much you improve your team's chances of winning as many championships or possible.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=aj1987]Weren't the '09 and '10 Lakers the best rebounding teams in the NBA? I'm pretty sure that they had the best front court in the NBA as well.[/QUOTE]
Weren't the '12 and '13 Heat the most stacked team in league history relative to competition?
Yikes.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
just looked up the minimum average needed to make the HOF based on past inductees and their score
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html[/url]
Hall of Fame probabilities are presented for all players with a minimum of 400 NBA games played. Although it can be risky to make predictions for active players, you can think of these probabilities as answering the question "If this player retired today, what is the probability he would be elected to the Hall of Fame?". The model was built using a pool of 750 players. One method to assess classification accuracy is to compare the estimated Hall of Fame probability for the case to the actual result. Of the 750 players, 89 had been elected to the Hall of Fame and 661 had not. If the player's predicted probability of election was greater than or equal to 0.5, I predicted that he was in the Hall of Fame. Of the 89 players in the Hall of Fame, 74 were correctly classified (83.1%) and 15 were not (16.9%). Of the 661 players not in the Hall of Fame, 651 were correctly classified (98.5%) and 10 were not (1.5%). Overall, 725 of the 750 players (96.7%) were correctly classified by the model.
gasols .60 isnt enough
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
I'm pretty sure that 14+ years in the NBA with 2 titles (as an all-star) assures that he won't be an "international contributor". It's not as if he's Arvydas Sabonis. Gasol has had a terrific NBA career.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=Doranku]Weren't the '12 and '13 Heat the most stacked team in league history relative to competition?
Yikes.[/QUOTE]
Obviously not considering that they were taken to 2 game 7s and had 1 player who lead the team in almost every category possible.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=GrapeApe]I'm pretty sure that 14+ years in the NBA with 2 titles (as an all-star) assures that he won't be an "international contributor". It's not as if he's Arvydas Sabonis. Gasol has had a terrific NBA career.[/QUOTE]
it was terrific
i like gasol. hes a really good player. for a few years he was great. even on an allstar level
and we couldnt have won without his help
but to say hes a hall of fame nba player is a joke
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
Gasol WILL go into the hall of fame so there goes your thread
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=red1]Gasol WILL go into the hall of fame so there goes your thread[/QUOTE]
another person that has a problem with reading comprehension
:roll:
[SIZE="4"]anyone can make the hall of fame
as an ambassador, coach, owner, executive, sponsor, international contributor, pioneer, nba player, wnba player etc...
[/SIZE]
kobe had no other legit nba hall of famer
gasols nba hof rating is 0.621
[B][U]
the minimum to make the hall of fame is 0.83-0.84[/U][/B]
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]it was terrific
i like gasol. hes a really good player. for a few years he was great. even on an allstar level
and we couldnt have won without his help
but to say hes a hall of fame nba player is a joke[/QUOTE]
Are there any NBA players with 4 all-star appearances and 2 titles (while being an all-star) that aren't in the HOF? I don't feel like looking it up but I'm guessing the answer is no. Gasol's NBA career alone would likely get him to the HOF.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Kennyboy getting contantly owned in his threads tho. :roll:
Gasol's a clear cut 1st ballot NBA hall of famer brah
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/deal_with_it-Lakers.gif[/IMG]
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]another person that has a problem with reading comprehension
:roll:
[SIZE="4"]anyone can make the hall of fame
as an ambassador, coach, owner, executive, sponsor, international contributor, pioneer, nba player, wnba player etc...
[/SIZE]
kobe had no other legit nba hall of famer
gasols nba hof rating is 0.621
[B][U]
the minimum to make the hall of fame is 0.83-0.84[/U][/B][/QUOTE]
Kenny you know that I like you and give you credit for your trolling but even you must realize that thread is a stretch.
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[B][QUOTE=Fudge]Kennyboy getting contantly owned in his threads tho. :roll:
Gasol's a clear cut 1st ballot NBA hall of famer brah
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/deal_with_it-Lakers.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
pretty sure i'm doing the owning
proving gasols hof rating of 0.62 is .20 points below the average hall of fame induction rating
:confusedshrug:
[/B]
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[B]reggie miller and dennis rodman barely made the 2nd ballot
and theyre 10 times better than gasol all time[/B]
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin][B]
pretty sure i'm doing the owning
proving gasols hof rating of 0.62 is .20 points below the average hall of fame induction rating
:confusedshrug:
[/B][/QUOTE]
YOU AINT DEALIN WITH IT THO
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA hall of famer
Kobe was obviously the best player and the leader of the team. That said, you do realize that gasol's production was nearly on par with kobe's right? Does that mean that kobe is also close to being a "not real hall of fame player"?
-
Re: the only man to win multiple championships without another NBA HOF team mate
Even if you stupidly believe Gasol won't be in the hall of fame, he certainly played like a HOFer in the 2 championship runs. He averaged 20 ppg on 54% shooting, 11 rebounds, 2 blocks, and 4 assists per game in the 2010 playoffs. He was more impactful than Kobe in the Finals