Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
I didn't realize this issue was a big deal. I saw a few thread titles here or there but I thought it was just a few random people being unreasonable. I can't believe there's actually a swell of folk who believe this is some sort of scheme where Derrick Rose has simply decided he doesn't feel like playing this year, as if he's just bored with the idea of playing and wants to chill out for a while, maybe try switching over to billiards or something.
I'm guessing this is a topic that is being repeatedly brought up on ESPN talking panels with journalists bickering to no end about warrior mentalities, yeah?
I just cannot believe how quickly a competitor like Derrick Rose can have so many immediately turn on him just because he apparently doesn't feel as though his knee is completely and fully ready to tackle real game, full speed battles day in and day out. There's a lot of injuries I believe players can readily attempt to play through and "risk". I do not believe knee injuries are one of those risks a player wants to take. Doctors can give green lights, but it's always on the player himself to truly know and decide when he's ready to take on uncertain game conditions (i.e. not controlled practices) and believe he'll be able to play without second thoughts and hesitation.
I think the culture of the expectancy that any and all pro athletes must play through all of their injuries is completely out of wack. Every injury is unique, as is every recovery, both from a physical and mental aspect.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]He had nagging injuries all last season....got hurt again in March...missed 17 games. tried going a few times. Played limited minutes a couple games then sat out the end to rest. Came back for the playoffs though.
How that go?
Assuming he could go 100% coming off an injury may well be why he was playing such heavy minutes.
A finger injury is one thing. A rib injury. Something that is just pain.
Knees?
Sit. Down.
We have lost too many people to "Well...we thought he was fine". Too many legendary talents have become too many cautionary tales. Grant Hill back for the playoffs when he shouldnt be, Penny(read some of his articles on how nobody on the magic wanted to hear that he needed to sit...how he felt pressure to play before he ended himself), Walton, Webber putting off rest till after the season going down in 03 and never being the same, everyone wanting Oden back including Portland fans here calling him out for being "cleared".
Im sick of it. So many of the same stories. Always "He was cleared...." then fans talking about what if what if...
Being called a "warrior" on the internet isnt worth being the next Penny. Get yourself together. No hesitation. No favoring one leg and blowing out the other. Get right and get back.
If hes somehow out next year....be reason to worry.
Taking a year with a torn ACL looking to be ready in your own eyes?
Fine.
He comes back and Webbers himself and ends up a jump shooter on the 76ers....at least we wont have the "Idiot...why was he even out there?" part of the story.[/QUOTE]I appreciate your contributions in this thread (alongside some others - GOBB, Degness, etc.). I find your logic to be sound.
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
When was the last time someone tore their acl and came back as good as he was before the injury?
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
[QUOTE=NBASTATMAN]When was the last time someone tore their acl and came back as good as he was before the injury?[/QUOTE]
Adrian Peterson.
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
[QUOTE=NBASTATMAN]When was the last time someone tore their acl and came back as good as he was before the injury?[/QUOTE]
A.P is the obvious answer but he's a completely different animal. David west, Lowry, Jamal Crawford and baron Davis all come to mind who played well after.
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
[QUOTE=black&scholes]whats nflx[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://static.cdn-seekingalpha.com/uploads/2012/7/10/1047133-13419492443149374-PowerOptions.jpg[/IMG]
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
[QUOTE=InfiniteBaskets][IMG]http://static.cdn-seekingalpha.com/uploads/2012/7/10/1047133-13419492443149374-PowerOptions.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
o i don't follow options
ironic i know
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]He had nagging injuries all last season....got hurt again in March...missed 17 games. tried going a few times. Played limited minutes a couple games then sat out the end to rest. Came back for the playoffs though.
How that go?
Assuming he could go 100% coming off an injury may well be why he was playing such heavy minutes.
A finger injury is one thing. A rib injury. Something that is just pain.
Knees?
Sit. Down.
We have lost too many people to "Well...we thought he was fine". Too many legendary talents have become too many cautionary tales. Grant Hill back for the playoffs when he shouldnt be, Penny(read some of his articles on how nobody on the magic wanted to hear that he needed to sit...how he felt pressure to play before he ended himself), Walton, Webber putting off rest till after the season going down in 03 and never being the same, everyone wanting Oden back including Portland fans here calling him out for being "cleared".
Im sick of it. So many of the same stories. Always "He was cleared...." then fans talking about what if what if...
Being called a "warrior" on the internet isnt worth being the next Penny. Get yourself together. No hesitation. No favoring one leg and blowing out the other. Get right and get back.
If hes somehow out next year....be reason to worry.
Taking a year with a torn ACL looking to be ready in your own eyes?
Fine.
He comes back and Webbers himself and ends up a jump shooter on the 76ers....at least we wont have the "Idiot...why was he even out there?" part of the story.[/QUOTE]
Well. He has been cleared. Just a fact.
If he's not ready...so be it. Never said he should come back if he really doesn't want to.
But he should get criticism for not coming back once cleared....just like everyone else would.
We could play the "what if" games all the time. What if he comes back and plays great and they win the title.
How a player plays and what they do is open for criticism. Not sure why this is so hard for you to comprehend. He's medically cleared and he's choosing not to play because he isn't ready. That is fine...but he's not Noah. He's not any other player fighting through injuries right now putting themselves on the line for their team.
Sit. Down. Calm. Down.
I know you are a Rose fan, but there is nothing wrong with someone criticizing him for not playing. And this is without even bringing up the fact that his "camp" has been making noise about how the team didn't do enough to warrant him coming back. Could that be someone talking out of line? Sure, but it could also be exactly how Rose feels.
Simple concept. Medically cleared to play...making 15 million a year. Not playing. Deserves criticism.
Now STFU and quit whining...
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
Of course there is risk when coming back from injury. No shit GOBB and Kblaze. There is always a chance of injury, that's sports.
The doctors cleared him months ago, how would him playing now be him rushing back to play? If he can't return in damn near a year's time from an ACL tear then obviously people will have concerns. I just don't think you guys understand, if he wants to take time off and come back next year fresh, make a definitive statement so that your teammates, franchise and endorsers arent looking like uninformed idiots.
I wish him the best but he's being a b*tch to me. Either take the year off and stop being a distraction, or suit up.
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
I don't feel like reading this thread so can someone explain to me what's going on? The doctors have cleared Rose, he's been cleared for months now right? Why isn't he playing? What does the GM and the coaching staff think about this?
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
Michael Jordan would fight with team doctors and GM to get back on the court.
MJ would have been on the court months ago.
Rose is embarrassing.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzi3fHUEB1A[/url]
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Well. He has been cleared. Just a fact.
If he's not ready...so be it. Never said he should come back if he really doesn't want to.
But he should get criticism for not coming back once cleared....just like everyone else would.
We could play the "what if" games all the time. What if he comes back and plays great and they win the title.
How a player plays and what they do is open for criticism. Not sure why this is so hard for you to comprehend. He's medically cleared and he's choosing not to play because he isn't ready. That is fine...but he's not Noah. He's not any other player fighting through injuries right now putting themselves on the line for their team.
Sit. Down. Calm. Down.
I know you are a Rose fan, but there is nothing wrong with someone criticizing him for not playing. And this is without even bringing up the fact that his "camp" has been making noise about how the team didn't do enough to warrant him coming back. Could that be someone talking out of line? Sure, but it could also be exactly how Rose feels.
Simple concept. Medically cleared to play...making 15 million a year. Not playing. Deserves criticism.
Now STFU and quit whining...[/QUOTE]
:applause:
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
This is one of the most engaging and civilzed discussion on ISH in a long time
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
One season missed. He still has ten more years If he stays healthy. Not everyone is mentally strong to come back from injury. He's a kid. I'm a big fan. I respect his decision to come back till he feels ready.
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
keyboard warriors calling professional athletes weak...
[IMG]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/063/706/30v0t1i.jpg[/IMG]
Re: It's infuriating to see the Bulls playing their hearts out while Rose sits at home
[COLOR=#000000][quote]Well. He has been cleared. Just a fact.[/quote][/COLOR]
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[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]So was virtually everyone who ever played. Many...in retrospect...were not doing the right thing. Just a fact.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][quote]If he's not ready...so be it. Never said he should come back if he really doesn't want to.[/quote][/LEFT]
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[LEFT]But he should get criticism for not coming back once cleared....just like everyone else would.[/LEFT]
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[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]That people act like athletes owe them more than they owe themselves and their people doesnt matter to me. Nobody who blows up his knee should ever be back before they are ready.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][quote]We could play the "what if" games all the time. What if he comes back and plays great and they win the title.[/quote][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]A lesser positive than ruining your career. Id like to see it. But ive seen my team win 6. I loved them. Not as much as id have hated seeing MJ ruin his career before 25. I watched him sitting out in 86. Literally. My dad had tickets from a guy at his job who didnt wanna go while MJ was out. I sat in chicago watching MJ look fine...and not play. It bothered me. because I was a kid. Now I am not.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Having him back a month earlier(he was supposed to be back way sooner) would have been great. Him not being Penny was better.[/COLOR]
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[LEFT][quote]How a player plays and what they do is open for criticism. Not sure why this is so hard for you to comprehend. He's medically cleared and he's choosing not to play because he isn't ready. That is fine...but he's not Noah. He's not any other player fighting through injuries right now putting themselves on the line for their team.[/quote][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]And the moment one gets injured doing it up springs the "Was he pushed too hard" topics just like last year with some of the same fans upset now...calling for coach to get fired. I read one last night looking for an old post of mine on the matter that I couldnt find.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]People just want the team to win and dont think past that to seeing the big picture. Anything that works is great...doesnt...everyones an idiot and needs to go.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][quote]Sit. Down. Calm. Down.[/quote][/LEFT]
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[LEFT]I know you are a Rose fan, but there is nothing wrong with someone criticizing him for not playing. And this is without even bringing up the fact that his "camp" has been making noise about how the team didn't do enough to warrant him coming back. Could that be someone talking out of line? Sure, but it could also be exactly how Rose feels.[/LEFT]
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[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I have no interest in his "camp" making noise I cant confirm or deny....[/COLOR][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][quote]Simple concept. Medically cleared to play...making 15 million a year. Not playing. Deserves criticism.[/quote][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]The 15 million card? Really. Hes got a 100 million dollar contract hes getting paid injured or not. And another massive one from Adidas. That should if anything make someone worried about him earning that money years from now want him to wait till hes ready. All making a huge sum of money means is hes in the NBA.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][quote]Now STFU and quit whining...[/quote][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I have not made a Derrick Rose topic in a year and change. Perhaps more. I suspect ive not made 5 in his career(I remember 4) There were literally 5 of these topics made at the same time yesterday. 3-4 deleted or closed. Probably 10-20 a week some by the same people. The people not worried about it are sitting quietly waiting. The people upset are the ones acting like children making emotionally driven topic after topic talking about it.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]If we cut the whining...there would be none of these topics in the first place. My side doesnt tend to make them. Just...wait for him to get better.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]This whole argument is generated by people who feel an athlete they dont know owes them something. The "Dude.....he tore his acl...wait till hes ready" side isnt making nearly the fuss.[/COLOR]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Ive never suggest anyone return from a huge injury before they were ready. And ive been here talking about them a long time. This isnt Rose specific. Its common sense specific.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Torn ACL.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Doesnt feel ready.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Dont play.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I dont feel a need to make 20 topics about it. I do feel a need to question the common sense and knowledge of history of anyone who feels "Come back before you feel you should for the playoffs" is a good idea for an athletic young superstar getting past a leg injury. It just...has not worked out that well. And every single time the idiots yelling "Get back in there!" go quiet like nothing happened.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
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We lost 3 superstars in a decade who needed nothing but to sit down instead of trying to carry a team to/in the playoffs late in the season....in every case....fans want them to gut it out. Great Hill said he felt pressure to play just off people bringing up how Isiah wouldnt sit in the playoffs with an injury the doctors cleared him with. He didnt even think people believed he was hurting. Said he almost felt relief when it finally went and they could see it on the xray....and then he went from Lebron to "I hope he plays again...ever".
The shit is foolish and history has proven it time and time again. If someone is too upset to wait...**** em. They need to see past today. If you had someone like me behind the scenes we might not have lost Penny, Hill, or Webber. For sure wouldnt have seen Kobe and RG3 go down both of them....I watched live while discussing with a Laker/Redskin fan(odd combo I know) why they were in the game to begin with. But people like those in this topic get upset and pressure them over their contract and what they owe the people. Makes for a culture that straight up wrecks some of our most promising young stars over and over. We lose a couple a decade to "Dude....doctors say you are ok...go play. We pay you a lot of money". Just off the top I can think of 2 from the 70s, 2 from the 80s, 2 major ones from the 90s, 2 from the 2000s not counting a few that were less major but still foolish and most of them did not have to be. And im not even counting Greg Oden who had Blazer fans making "Why isnt he back?" topics like idiots before he lost an ice cream scoop sized chunk of his kneecap. I consider him just...brittle. Im considering the people who didnt have to go the way they did. And the thousands(millions) they felt were pushing them to go in the face of their better judgement.
Who does the sport the most harm in the big picture?
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If recovering/injured star athletes listened to reason and not fans who dont really care about them we wouldnt have missed out on a LOT of legendary careers. But by all means.....its your right to complain.
Even if the millions of you doing it cost yourselves star after star doing it.