Official #47 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

[L.Kizzle]

#46 - Kevin Johnson. KJ was one of the premier guards of the early 1990’s. He ran the Phoenix Suns offense getting the players involved. He’s one of only 3 guards to average over 20 and 10 over a 3 year period. Led the pre-Barkley Suns to 2 Conference Finals.

| PPG 17.9 | RPG 3.3 | APG 9.1 | SPG 1.5 |
3 NBA All-Star Games
5 All-NBA Team
Most Improved Player Award
1 NBA Finals Appearance


http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/1215/pg2_kevin_johnson_195.jpg


ISH 100 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Earvin 'Magic' Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Jerry West
12. Julius Erving
13. Moses Malone
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. John Havlicek
17. Karl Malone
18. George Mikan
19. David Robinson
20. Isiah Thomas
21. Charles Barkley
22. John Stockton
23. Bob Cousy
24. Kobe Bryant
25. Rick Barry
26. Scottie Pippen
27. Clyde Drexler
28. Gary Payton
29. Willis Reed
30. Patrick Ewing
-----
31. Allen Iverson
32. Walt Frazier
33. Elvin Hayes
34. George Gervin
35. Jason Kidd
36. Dave Cowens
37. Kevin Garnett
38. Bob McAdoo
39. Nate Thurmond
40. Wes Unseld
-----
41. Kevin McHale
42. Dolph Schayes
43. Dominique Wilkins
44. Bill Walton
45. Sam Jones
46. Kevin Johnson

Players to consider:
Nate Archibald
Paul Arizin
Billy Cunningham
Adrian Dantley
Artis Gilmore
Hal Greer
Jerry Lucas
Earl Monroe
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Dennis Rodman

#46 Greatest Player Voting
Kevin Johnson = 9 votes
Dirk Nowitzki = 7 votes
Steve Nash = 5 votes
Dennis Rodman = 4 votes
Pete Maravich = 4 votes
Earl Monroe = 2 votes
Billy Cunningham = 1 vote
Alonzo Mourning = 1 vote
Latrell Sprewell = 1 vote


Official #46 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52000)

[KINGofTHEcourt]

I demand Steve Nash.

[Silverbullit]

DIrk Nowitzki!

[otmtheshank]

I'll take Dennis Rodman again. Arguably the greatest rebounder/role player of all-time. Also the most versatile elite defender of all-time.

[mlh1981]

Rodman. Great defender, rebounder, and really knew how to get in the minds of the players he was defending against. Played on winners.

[Agent_Zero]

Rodman. Great defender, rebounder, and really knew how to get in the minds of the players he was defending against. Played on winners.


co sign. Rodman.

[NBAFan]

vote for rodman

[hateraid]

Steve Nash

[D-Fence]

I again vote for Dennis Rodman.

- A member of 5 NBA championship teams.

- Led the NBA in RPG 7 consecutive seasons and is arguably the greatest rebounder in NBA history (I'd at least place him in the top 3).

- Awarded 2 Defensive Player of the Year awards and 8 All-Defensive Team selections. He's one of the greatest defensive players in NBA history. He could play primary defense on everyone. When with the Pistons, he often guarded Michael Jordan in late game situations. With Chicago, he guarded Shaquille O'Neal.

- He was an underrated passer. It made Rodman valuable to a team's offense. He could handle the ball and create plays with his passing. He averaged as much as 3.1 APG in Chicago; for a player who barely scores more than that per game and plays in the post, that's incredible.

-Rodman didn't score much, but he was efficient, as his career .521 FG% and a season leading the league in FG% attest.

[D-Fence]

Latrell Sprewell = 1 vote

What were you thinking, Optimus Prime?

[YAWN]

the worm dennis rodman

[Optimus Prime]

I was having fun...none of the people who could possibly win the last round interested me in the slightest. :)

I was going to list Spree's accolades here, but I see "The Worm" has a legit shot, so my vote goes to Dennis Rodman!


What were you thinking, Optimus Prime?

[dudeguykid]

dennis rodman!!

[hateraid]

Steve Nash

2-time NBA Most Valuable Player: 2005, 2006
5-time NBA All-Star: 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007
5-time All-NBA:
First Team: 2005, 2006, 2007
Third Team: 2002, 2003
3-time NBA regular season leader, assists per game: 2005 (11.5), 2006 (10.5), 2007 (11.6)[1]
3-time NBA regular season leader, assists: 2005 (861), 2006 (826), 2007 (884)
NBA regular season leader, free throw percentage: 2006 (.921)
NBA league leader in assists per 48 minutes: 2004 (12.6)[34], 2005 (16.1)[35], 2006 (14.2)[36], 2007 (15.8)[37]


-One of only five players in NBA history to lead the league in assists per game average for 3 consecutive seasons (the others are Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson, John Stockton and Jason Kidd ).
-Ties Magic Johnson and Doc Rivers for the most assists in a half in a playoff game with 15.

[Lebron23]

I voted for the best rebounding forward in NBA History


http://newsfromrussia.com/images/newsline/Rodman102.jpg

Post-Bulls career

After his stint with the Bulls, Rodman became a journeyman. He briefly joined the Los Angeles Lakers (wearing number 73) and helped them to a 17-6 record while averaging 11.2 rebounds per game. However, Rodman had taken a leave of absence for personal reasons and was released soon after. The following season he would join the Dallas Mavericks for 12 games. Rodman averaged 14.3 rebounds per game for the Mavericks. However, the Mavericks still had little success and Rodman was released after some critical comments of Mavericks owner Mark Cuban. After a long break, he has played for the Tijuana Dragons of the newly-formed American Basketball Association, competed in three games for the Brighton Bears of the British Basketball League and one game for Torpan Pojat of the Finland's basketball league, Korisliiga.


Career awards and accomplishments

5 time NBA Champion (1989 & 1990 (Detroit), 1996

[D-Fence]

I was having fun...none of the people who could possibly win the last round interested me in the slightest. :)

I was going to list Spree's accolades here, but I see "The Worm" has a legit shot, so my vote goes to Dennis Rodman!

I wonder if Latrell Sprewell might actually make this list. He was selected to more All-Star games than Kevin Johnson. He was selected over KJ for the 1993-94 All-NBA Teams. He chocked one more coach than KJ ever did.

[SRZ66]

nash

[Fudge]

Man, am I the only one who's gonna side with Mourning further on? Probably because he's like the only one i've watched a lot out of these guys.

Yuhuh, I vote for Alonzo Mourning.

[dhenk]

I vote for Theo Ratliff

Dude was the most impressive shotblocker of his generation,a generation FULL of competition...

[Optimus Prime]

Oh don't worry, Spree's time is coming. :D

I already have my list of Spree accolades ready to go for next round if Dennis Rodman wins this round! :)


I wonder if Latrell Sprewell might actually make this list. He was selected to more All-Star games than Kevin Johnson. He was selected over KJ for the 1993-94 All-NBA Teams. He chocked one more coach than KJ ever did.

[Glove_20]

Finally Kevin Johnson gets in

10-15 spots late, but at least he is in on the Top 50

[AirGordon7]

Dennis "The Worm" Rodman

[Miller Time]

Rodman I guess, atleast he has a chance to come in now, since everyone else was voting for him.

[RagingBull33]

Pistol Pete

[dawsey6]

Dennis Rodman.

[dejordan]

I wonder if Latrell Sprewell might actually make this list. He was selected to more All-Star games than Kevin Johnson. He was selected over KJ for the 1993-94 All-NBA Teams. He chocked one more coach than KJ ever did.
you think kj held a sermon is carlissimo's honor to pray for the healthy of his neck / beard after that incident?

as much as i like rodman (and he's pobably one of my five favorite forwards ever), i can't believe he's going to make this list so soon. he was on 5 championship teams, but he was never more than the third most important player, and that is debatable (i'd say he was 4th or worse w/ detroit behind zeke, laimbeer, and joe d and you could probably make an argument to put toni ahead of him with chicago, but i would disagree with that). as a rebounder and defender was he more impactful than dikembe mutumbo or artis gilmore who both spent time as the best and second best players on their teams? as an overall player was he really better than worthy or dennis johnson both of whom are finals mvps and members of dynasties in their own rights?

[D-Fence]

Why Pete Maravich shouldn't be ranked within the top 50

Courtesy of Glove, here's what Charley Rosen wrote of Maravich for his Most Overrated Players of All-time list:


A one-man circus who wouldn't throw a pass unless it was behind the back or through the legs or in one ear and out the other. And his completion rate was barely above .500. His ball-hogging made him unpopular with his teammates, but scored big-time with the media. It's no accident that his teams were always pretenders and never contenders. It also says here that Maravich was the worst defender in NBA history.

Many honest basketball critics who've seen Maravich play--who worked in the NBA when Maravich played--don't hold him in the same regard as casual fans and glorifying media do. Pat Riley called him "the most overrated superstar."

Here's what Kblaze said in an earlier thread about Maravich when comparing him to Sam Jones:

Sam is the anti Maravich I believe. Unlike Pete he was very highly regarded in his prime and now he isnt. While Pete wasnt really wanted in is time(according to his own GM in his beyond the glory he tried for a year to trade Maravich and nobody would take him). Sam was a massive winner and Pete wasnt. Sam has 10 titles and Pete has one of(if not the worst) career winning percentage of players in the HOF. Same had a rep as a do it all player who would take any role to win. Pete had a rep as a selfish guy who just wanted to look flashy. Sam was the second best shooting(by percentage) guard i nthe league to Oscar at points.

Sam retired and got underrated by fans who didnt watch him and Pete retired and got overrated by fans who didnt watch him(going by the opinions it seems people had when they did play).

Sam Jones is the antithesis of Pistol Pete. I consider that(for the most part) a good thing.

Maravich's flashy game easily translates to the highlight films. In the age of ESPN, the media and many fans treat basketball as though it were highlight films. In fact, NBA basketball is a team game with the purpose of winning.

Pete Maravich wasn't a great team player, or even a very good one. His teams lost more than they won. Maravich only got out of the first round of the playoffs in the last season of his career, where he averaged about 12 MPG in the playoffs.

Here's the records on Maravich's teams:
Hawks pre-Maravich: 48-34 and made the Western Division Finals. The Hawks would have about the same team for the entire Maravich tenure + Maravich that they had this season. That included Lou Hudson, Walt Bellamy and forgotten outstanding rebounder and defensive player Bill Bridges.

Enter Pistol Pete
1971: 36-46
1972: 36-46
1973: 46-36
1974: 35-47

Maravich is traded to the expansion franchise New Orleans Jazz (same state as Maravich's college and in need of a marquee player)
1975: 23-59
1976: 38-44
1977: 35-47

Gail Goodrich and Truck Robinson join for this one.
1978: 39-43

Goodrich retires and Maravich goes into rapid, injury-induced decline and retires in a couple seasons.

That's another thing against Maravich. He only played 658 games in 10 seasons. That's 65.8 games per season for only 10 seasons. When we were discussing Bill Walton, we were talking about an all-around great player, an unselfish leader and MVP, a 2-time NBA champion. Maravich was a selfish, limited player who's team lost most often. Maravich had no significant MVP placements during his career despite being a prolific scorer.

As Rosen said, Maravich wasn't as good of a passer as the highlight films indicate. His assist numbers are less than to be expected from such a creative passer who dominated the ball and was a genuine scoring threat. 5.4 APG is nothing to be ashamed of, but it's less than you'd expect after the highligh films. Furthermore, look at the limited turnover numbers on him (limited because the NBA didn't keep track of turnovers until the 1977-78 season). For the 1978 and 1979 season, when Maravich was still around his peak, he averaged 5 and 4.1 turnovers per game to go along with 6.7 APG and 5 APG. And you can't say it was because his passing was ahead of its time. Bob Cousy didn't have similar trouble.

Additionally, Maravich is often acknowledged to have been an atrocious defensive player. Even those who rank him highly admit that he was bad defensively. Rosen isn't the only one I've heard suggest Maravich as the worst defensive player in NBA history. Pistol Pete doesn't belong in the top 50.

[basketballer4]

Nowitzki.

[D-Fence]

as much as i like rodman (and he's pobably one of my five favorite forwards ever), i can't believe he's going to make this list so soon. he was on 5 championship teams, but he was never more than the third most important player, and that is debatable (i'd say he was 4th or worse w/ detroit behind zeke, laimbeer, and joe d and you could probably make an argument to put toni ahead of him with chicago, but i would disagree with that). as a rebounder and defender was he more impactful than dikembe mutumbo or artis gilmore who both spent time as the best and second best players on their teams? as an overall player was he really better than worthy or dennis johnson both of whom are finals mvps and members of dynasties in their own rights?

There were times Rodman was the most important player on championship teams. Overall, for an entire season, no, but there were times. Elliott Kalb, who ranked Rodman the #30 greatest player all-time (ahead of fellow forwards McHale, Hayes, Garnett, Wilkins, etc. and called him "the greatest defensive forward ever"), said that Rodman deserved consideration for the 1996 NBA Finals MVP and that he won two games that series with his rebounding. I have one of those games; it's true.

Anyhow, isn't the 3rd best player on a championship team, first, something to be more desired than being the best player on a worse team? And, second, aren't they just sometimes greater players? More valuable to winning? I think so. Basketball is a team game. Sometimes the best player is bad at helping the team.

I think Rodman was significantly better than, say, James Worthy. Rodman won wherever he went. He had a huge impact on games. In 1993, the Pistons went 36-26 with Rodman and 4-20 without him. Same thing in San Antonio, for 1995, they were 42-7 with him and 20-13 without him.

Nobody replaces Rodman easily either. He was the best rebounder in the league and one of the 3 best defenders as well as a great passer for his position. Who else steps in and fits that bill?

And no way was Toni Kukoc ever more important than Rodman. You couldn't even make that argument.

Rodman has been underappreciated because 1) He was an unselfish player who did the unglamorous--rebounded, played defense, got in opponent's way and in their heads, and got teammates (fans, too) involved. He did not score a lot. 2) He had some personality problems, but I think this is always blown out of proportion--it didn't affect basketball that much.

[KWALI]

Has Dirk ever been better than Prime C-WEbb?

I don;t think so...people quoting Dirk need to wait awhile see if he actually gets to that point......


Yes he's won as much as Barkley and Malone but he had an auspicious beginning but people don't always win more becuz they are better it's not that simple.....basketball is one of the simplest team sports maybe the simplest but it never copm,es down to one guy vs another interms or winning in a 82 game season.

It just doesn't

[dejordan]

There were times Rodman was the most important player on championship teams. Overall, for an entire season, no, but there were times. Elliott Kalb, who ranked Rodman the #30 greatest player all-time (ahead of fellow forwards McHale, Hayes, Garnett, Wilkins, etc. and called him "the greatest defensive forward ever"), said that Rodman deserved consideration for the 1996 NBA Finals MVP and that he won two games that series with his rebounding. I have one of those games; it's true.

Anyhow, isn't the 3rd best player on a championship team, first, something to be more desired than being the best player on a worse team? And, second, aren't they just sometimes greater players? More valuable to winning? I think so. Basketball is a team game. Sometimes the best player is bad at helping the team.

I think Rodman was significantly better than, say, James Worthy. Rodman won wherever he went. He had a huge impact on games. In 1993, the Pistons went 36-26 with Rodman and 4-20 without him. Same thing in San Antonio, for 1995, they were 42-7 with him and 20-13 without him.

Nobody replaces Rodman easily either. He was the best rebounder in the league and one of the 3 best defenders as well as a great passer for his position. Who else steps in and fits that bill?

And no way was Toni Kukoc ever more important than Rodman. You couldn't even make that argument.

Rodman has been underappreciated because 1) He was an unselfish player who did the unglamorous--rebounded, played defense, got in opponent's way and in their heads, and got teammates (fans, too) involved. He did not score a lot. 2) He had some personality problems, but I think this is always blown out of proportion--it didn't affect basketball that much.
that's all valid, and i would say that rodman was at worst the third best defensive forward ever (i would say duncan and pippen both have an argument if not the all-d trophies to put on their mantles), and at worst a top 5 rebounder ever.

what i'm not sure of is if he was generally more valuable than say dikembe. he wasn't the leader that kept his teams focused, motivated, and united. he wasn't the player who would take over a game and dominate in the clutch. he wasn't the coach on the floor type. he was emotionally up and down, sometimes a burst of energy and sometimes a distraction (shoes off in front of the san antonio bench comes to mind).

i loved the way he would get into the heads of guys like zo, but the impact of his defensive prowess was overestimated when it came to defending really great scorers. look at his head to head numbers against barkley, malone, bird, jordan, kemp, nique etc, i doubt he held them below their averages. even against karl in the finals he wasn't that big of a factor. longley actually covered malone a lot because karl was able to post dennis so easily, and dennis was in foul trouble a lot when he did defend karl so scottie and bison dele had to take turns on mailman as well.

in short he was not a leader and not a dominator, and while he was a great defender, when it comes to shutting down the greatest scorers, nobody can do that one on one. he was a great, great role player and a terrific fit on great teams, but i'm not really convinced that guys like gilmore or dikembe couldn't have provided the same service.

not sure what else you could have wanted from worthy in la. he complimented magic's game perfectly giving him a 3 / 4 who could run the floor with anyone, finish at any speed, hit a jumper off the dish out and beat his man one on one in the half court all day. how is that worse than rodman cleaning the glass and defending the bigs for jordan? maybe if he'd done something similar with a different team or been a big number generator on a weak team? but no, you actually made a point of saying dennis as a third most important player on a title team was more valuable than the best player on a non-champ, so that wouldn't make a difference. which i agree with actually. they were both top level role players. same with dj.

again, i like dennis a lot, and i think he was incredibly valuable, and that he might deserve this spot, but i'm not sure why so many people think he deserves a top 50 spot for being a great role player when similar role players are getting no love at all.

[KWALI]

that's all valid, and i would say that rodman was at worst the third best defensive forward ever (i would say duncan and pippen both have an argument if not the all-d trophies to put on their mantles), and at worst a top 5 rebounder ever.

what i'm not sure of is if he was generally more valuable than say dikembe. he wasn't the leader that kept his teams focused, motivated, and united. he wasn't the player who would take over a game and dominate in the clutch. he wasn't the coach on the floor type. he was emotionally up and down, sometimes a burst of energy and sometimes a distraction (shoes off in front of the san antonio bench comes to mind).

i loved the way he would get into the heads of guys like zo, but the impact of his defensive prowess was overestimated when it came to defending really great scorers. look at his head to head numbers against barkley, malone, bird, jordan, kemp, nique etc, i doubt he held them below their averages. even against karl in the finals he wasn't that big of a factor. longley actually covered malone a lot because karl was able to post dennis so easily, and dennis was in foul trouble a lot when he did defend karl so scottie and bison dele had to take turns on mailman as well.

in short he was not a leader and not a dominator, and while he was a great defender, when it comes to shutting down the greatest scorers, nobody can do that one on one. he was a great, great role player and a terrific fit on great teams, but i'm not really convinced that guys like gilmore or dikembe couldn't have provided the same service.

not sure what else you could have wanted from worthy in la. he complimented magic's game perfectly giving him a 3 / 4 who could run the floor with anyone, finish at any speed, hit a jumper off the dish out and beat his man one on one in the half court all day. how is that worse than rodman cleaning the glass and defending the bigs for jordan? maybe if he'd done something similar with a different team or been a big number generator on a weak team? but no, you actually made a point of saying dennis as a third most important player on a title team was more valuable than the best player on a non-champ, so that wouldn't make a difference. which i agree with actually. they were both top level role players. same with dj.

again, i like dennis a lot, and i think he was incredibly valuable, and that he might deserve this spot, but i'm not sure why so many people think he deserves a top 50 spot for being a great role player when similar role players are getting no love at all.



:applause: :applause:

Exactly...... When Leadership was needed The Spurs instead of providing it he became a derisive force...DPOY or not A Train....Ralph Samson I mean we are talking top 50 here. for someon to spontaneously say Kevin Johnson was not and Dennis Rodman is....I just don't get it.....Ben Wallace...except for the one on one D is everything Dennis Rodman is with less distractions..

[dejordan]

:applause: :applause:

Exactly...... When Leadership was needed The Spurs instead of providing it he became a derisive force...DPOY or not A Train....Ralph Samson I mean we are talking top 50 here. for someon to spontaneously say Kevin Johnson was not and Dennis Rodman is....I just don't get it.....Ben Wallace...except for the one on one D is everything Dennis Rodman is with less distractions..
i would disagree with this simply because rodman was a significantly better passer and added the mind games to his strategy (a la laimbeer who i actually think is one of the most underrated players ever. a top level physical / position defender of 4s and 5s, a three point threat, and a guy who got under your skin). i don't want to overstate the case against dennis, cause he did bring a lot to the table, it's just that i don't see where it was significantly more than similar players or players with similar accolades.

[Kblaze8855]

Pistol Pete might be the most overrated athlete period with the exception of Joe Namath. At least when it comes to peoples opinions on him compared to what people usually use to judge a player.

His entire career before one season in Boston was like Orlando Mcgrady with worse numbers, even less winning, being disliked by teammates, and disrespected by the league in general. At least Tmac was wanted in his prime.

So maybe its more like...a flashy pointguard version of Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Only Shareef also wasnt the type who couldnt have been traded at the top of his game because NOBODY but his home states new expansion team that needed a fan attraction would take him.

So maybe...Pistol Pete is a flashy guard version of SAR had Shareef choked his coach like Spre.

Only Spre got traded eventually and led a team to the finals. Ok...ok...

Pistol Pete was shareef....in a pointguards body....with the reputation of a coach choker...who never won enough to make people forget it. Ok ok.....

Hes SAR minus 6 inches with Michael Adams shot selection, Jason Williams(Sacramento) decision making, and mid 90s Spre reputation.

Only most of those guys were not disliked by teammates or seen as grossly overpaid by his peers(Pete was for a while the highest paid athlete in history).

So hes SAR minus 6 inches, with Jwill decision making, Michael Adams shot selection, Spre reputation, and Alan Houstons contract...with a good work ethic and a little World B. Free/Gilbert Arenas mixed in.

Cant take that from him. Guy worked his ass off.

[dejordan]

Pistol Pete might be the most overrated athlete period with the exception of Joe Namath. At least when it comes to peoples opinions on him compared to what people usually use to judge a player.

His entire career before one season in Boston was like Orlando Mcgrady with worse numbers, even less winning, being disliked by teammates, and disrespected by the league in general. At least Tmac was wanted in his prime.

So maybe its more like...a flashy pointguard version of Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Only Shareef also wasnt the type who couldnt have been traded at the top of his game because NOBODY but his home states new expansion team that needed a fan attraction would take him.

So maybe...Pistol Pete is a flashy guard version of SAR had Shareef choked his coach like Spre.

Only Spre got traded eventually and led a team to the finals. Ok...ok...

Pistol Pete was shareef....in a pointguards body....with the reputation of a coach choker...who never won enough to make people forget it. Ok ok.....

Hes SAR minus 6 inches with Michael Adams shot selection, Jason Williams(Sacramento) decision making, and mid 90s Spre reputation.

Only most of those guys were not disliked by teammates or seen as grossly overpaid by his peers(Pete was for a while the highest paid athlete in history).

So hes SAR minus 6 inches, with Jwill decision making, Michael Adams shot selection, Spre reputation, and Alan Houstons contract...with a good work ethic.

Cant take that from him. Guy worked his ass off.
right here i thought, "Marbury."

[Brunch@Five]

voting for Rodman is absolutely laughable. He was never more then the 3rd best player on any winning team he played on. I refuse to cast any vote from now on, it's clearly become "Most popular player list".

If we're done voting in Rodman we can start to vote for Robert Horry and Michael Cooper.

This list will lose all credibility post #35 when Rodman is voted in now...

[Optimus Prime]

Because polls on an Internet Message board are SERIOUS BUSINESS!


voting for Rodman is absolutely laughable. He was never more then the 3rd best player on any winning team he played on. I refuse to cast any vote from now on, it's clearly become "Most popular player list".

If we're done voting in Rodman we can start to vote for Robert Horry and Michael Cooper.

This list will lose all credibility post #35 when Rodman is voted in now...

[L.Kizzle]

voting for Rodman is absolutely laughable. He was never more then the 3rd best player on any winning team he played on. I refuse to cast any vote from now on, it's clearly become "Most popular player list".

If we're done voting in Rodman we can start to vote for Robert Horry and Michael Cooper.

This list will lose all credibility post #35 when Rodman is voted in now...
Well Robert Horry or Michael Cooper were never the 3rd best players on their squads.

And this can't be most popular as Kevin Johnson just won last round, dude was not that popular when he played.

[KWALI]

i would disagree with this simply because rodman was a significantly better passer and added the mind games to his strategy (a la laimbeer who i actually think is one of the most underrated players ever. a top level physical / position defender of 4s and 5s, a three point threat, and a guy who got under your skin). i don't want to overstate the case against dennis, cause he did bring a lot to the table, it's just that i don't see where it was significantly more than similar players or players with similar accolades.

Ben Wallace's passing is as underrated as ROdman's is he doesn't get assists but he makes great passes...of you watch him despite his poor shooting /scoring his an underrated offensive contributor

Rodman thought the game more than Ben does but his one on one mind games are not a greater deterrents than Ben Shot blocking changing shots (something Rodman never did) and as you mentioned inadvertently Rodman's mind games only worked on a certain type of player...Alonzo mourning could be taken off his game by many guys...those types who were fuled by emotion and were a bit hyper those are the guys he could get at...the really good players were rarely bothered by his shenanigans..Karl Malone would just physically punish him.

When you consider Ben's DPOY selections..his decent man to man and great Team D plus how many shots he changed and that he was actually a LEADER of a championship team how can you not say He's at least Rodman's equal...if not very close

Unless leadership means nothing which could e the case.

They are not the same player but overall value...pretty close...I remember when Rodman was said to be the Psitons best three point shooter....that was funny as hell

[Rocketz_Foreva]

itz gotta be mac or yao.

[haji_d_robertas]

Dennis Rodman.

[KWALI]

What about a guy like Larry Nance...I hate the fact that someone who specializes gets remembered when a guy like Nance could have had equal effect just never decided to do just one thing.

Being a Bull really revived Rodman to me becuz when he first left Detroit his defense fell to the way side he decided to just rebound and he was always a ***** of playing help team D(which is the most effective Defense) instead he thought everyone should get their man if they messed up that was their problem...

[Kblaze8855]

For non shot blockers Rodman and barkley both had some of the sickest blocked dunks of all time.

[KWALI]

For non shot blockers Rodman and barkley both had some of the sickest blocked dunks of all time.


Which Rodman block you talking about? Rodman wasn't normally a good shot blocker becuz he's a one foot jumper...of vert he never really got up. Barkley had huge vert and shotblocking was his entire D...Barks was a much better shot blocker than Rodman.

[WADE MONEY]

rodman...you could probably make an argument to put toni ahead of him with chicago.

I see that you disagree, but no you can't. You can't make such an argument. Read any repectable Jordan bio, such as "Playing for Keeps" by David Halberstram, or even ask Jordan himself.

You simply cannot make the argument that Kukoc's value to the bulls even APPROACHES rodman's.

[Kblaze8855]

Dennis had a good number of great block. In fact most of his blocks were amazing plays. He didnt go for many but when he did it was impressive. He met Ewing at the peak one time and just threw his ****(not the oop attempt one). He got Barkley and Malone a few times like that too. And Horace grant. hed come out of nowhere and spike dunks back and run off fist pumping. Mostly in his Piston days but it lasted to his spurs days too. I was watching an NBA action from 94 recently when making a video and they showed Dennis toss 2-3 dunks. He wasnt an off the ball defender but when he went for it he punished a few people.

[WADE MONEY]

Which Rodman block you talking about? Rodman wasn't normally a good shot blocker becuz he's a one foot jumper...of vert he never really got up. Barkley had huge vert and shotblocking was his entire D...Barks was a much better shot blocker than Rodman.

Au contraire, I believe it was the other way around. Rodman had a ridiculous vert. I remember an ad back in the late 90's in Sports Illustrated, where they had a kind of thermometer-looking scale that had all the superstars' verticals. Kemp was at the top with 49 inches, and pippen and rodman were both right behind with 48 inch verticals.

Barkley was no slouch athletically, especially considering his weight, but his vertical is nowhere near pippen/kemp levels.

[L.Kizzle]

Once again Billy Cunningham. He could fill up the scoreboard, he could rebound like a center (was a SF) was an OK defender and most importantly a winner.


He has multiple All-NBA 2st teams and a 2nd team. He has an All-ABA first team selection and ABAB MVP. Won a title on the greatest team ever, the 67 76ers putting up 18 ppg for them. He peaked in 1970 at 26 points and 14 boards. Was a 5ive time All-Star.

[KWALI]

Au contraire, I believe it was the other way around. Rodman had a ridiculous vert. I remember an ad back in the late 90's in Sports Illustrated, where they had a kind of thermometer-looking scale that had all the superstars' verticals. Kemp was at the top with 49 inches, and pippen and rodman were both right behind with 48 inch verticals.

Barkley was no slouch athletically, especially considering his weight, but his vertical is nowhere near pippen/kemp levels.

Um what ae you talking about? They showed there measured verts from workouts or they took it from game play?

IN game play Rodman did most of his jumping one leg even the blocks Kblaze is talking about the ones I remember are off one leg. like the fist pumping ones in Detroit..

Rodman was a athletic beast I remember in Detroit he was thought of as maybe the best overall athlete in the L.

[picc84]

Robert Pack.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

For me its either Nate Archibald or Billy Cunningham. I think I will go with Cunningham because he was the leader of his teams more than Archibald was of his.

[LakerWarrior12]

Dennis Rodman gets my vote.

[dhenk]

Theo Ratliff is a sick MACHINE...I can`t believe he isn`t already on this list...He does it all.blocks, etc etc...

Theo Ratliff has to be voted in before #50,or this list becomes ridiculous...

Compare his FT % to Shaq`s.
Last year,he was the by far best player on the Celtics roster.He was on a MVP mission,but some injuries stopped this incredible uber-athlete from doing what he loves the most...you`re right,it`s basketball...

how can you not love a player so devoted to winning?
he is so underrated,it makes me sick,and I hate you all...

We all know,that this is the official ISH list of all time,we have to be serious here...what will our children think about us,in 30 years,when this list will still be official.Will they look down on us and say:
"Daddy,how could you`ve been so stupid?We`re talking about THEO RATLIFF"

Now give this man some respect.
He deserves it,cause he worked hard for it.

[mhg88]

Steve Nash

[WADE MONEY]

Um what ae you talking about? They showed there measured verts from workouts or they took it from game play?

IN game play Rodman did most of his jumping one leg even the blocks Kblaze is talking about the ones I remember are off one leg. like the fist pumping ones in Detroit..

Rodman was a athletic beast I remember in Detroit he was thought of as maybe the best overall athlete in the L.

it was a print ad in sports illustrated, and I'm pretty sure they didn't give any sources, but I'm sure they're legit. However, I remember Kemp's 49 in vertical and Scottie and Rodman's 48 inch ones clear as day. I also remember MJ was nowhere to be found on that ad, probably because they couldn't get permission to use his name or something.

However, IMO, Rodman was NEVER at any point the most overall athletic player in the league.

[Selenium]

Steve Nash.

[WADE MONEY]

Also, what does jumping off one leg have to do with verticals? Pippen and Jordan both frequently jumped off one leg on their dunks, and it did not detract from their vertical at all.

[Kblaze8855]

Id bet anything Kemp, Pippen, and Rodman couldnt get up 48-49 inches. 38-39....more likely.

And Rodman was among the better overall athletes. He was build like a sprinter in his early days and just flew. Shawn MArion type athlete.

[Kblaze8855]

Also, what does jumping off one leg have to do with verticals? Pippen and Jordan both frequently jumped off one leg on their dunks, and it did not detract from their vertical at all.

One footed jumpers tend to have a bigger difference in standing vert to running. A two footed jumper might jump higher in testing but not as high in game.

[KWALI]

it was a print ad in sports illustrated, and I'm pretty sure they didn't give any sources, but I'm sure they're legit. However, I remember Kemp's 49 in vertical and Scottie and Rodman's 48 inch ones clear as day. I also remember MJ was nowhere to be found on that ad, probably because they couldn't get permission to use his name or something.

However, IMO, Rodman was NEVER at any point the most overall athletic player in the league.

He wasn't in my opinion either but becuz he could cover just about anyone when he was in Detroit...was bigger and stronger than Jordan but extremley fast he was on the L's top athletes...and considered in his Detroit days like a top 5 athlete in the L and tops by some people overall.

Remember Rodman got into the L on athleticism alone he had little to no known bball skill as a rookie.

I don't know how to feel about big guys listed with huge verticals..that couldn't be a standing vert..if a great athlete should be able to jump a certain percentage of their height it would make sense that big guys have these huge numbers...I remeber Brazillian volleyball players with crazy numbers but being around bigger athletes I find that usually they top out arounds 40 inches it tends to be the smaller guys who go 40+...I dunno

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Pistol Pete might be the most overrated athlete period with the exception of Joe Namath. At least when it comes to peoples opinions on him compared to what people usually use to judge a player.

His entire career before one season in Boston was like Orlando Mcgrady with worse numbers, even less winning, being disliked by teammates, and disrespected by the league in general. At least Tmac was wanted in his prime.

So maybe its more like...a flashy pointguard version of Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Only Shareef also wasnt the type who couldnt have been traded at the top of his game because NOBODY but his home states new expansion team that needed a fan attraction would take him.

70-71--The Hawks played the Knicks. Did you expect them to beat that group? The Knicks had Clyde, Reed, Dubusschere, Bradley

71-72--The Hawks played the Celtics. Did you expect them to win against that group? Havlicek, Cowens, White.

72-73--The Hawks played the Celtics once again. Did you expect them to win against them?

Granted the New Orleans teams absolutely sucked. But part of the reason why his "win percentage" is so low is because he didn't play that long. Had he played for another team in his mid 30s.... that would have risen.

Oscar Robertson failed to make it out the first round over half the time in his career. But that isn't really pointed out when looking at his career.

Pete may have been selfish. He may not have guady stats. He probably is overrated. But he is probably the greatest showman the NBA has ever seen. And the greatest passer also.

[i seen hippos]

Maravich.

[kobelamarjackson]

alex english

[Kblaze8855]

70-71--The Hawks played the Knicks. Did you expect them to beat that group? The Knicks had Clyde, Reed, Dubusschere, Bradley

71-72--The Hawks played the Celtics. Did you expect them to win against that group? Havlicek, Cowens, White.

72-73--The Hawks played the Celtics once again. Did you expect them to win against them?

So basically its the Kobe defense. And the same reality applies. If they didnt suck they wouldnt play good teams in the first round. They won 48 games in each of the 2 seasons before his rookie year and won in the playoffs. They were in the WCF for 2 straight years before Pistol got there. Lost to the lakers both year. Yes the Hawks were a west team at the time(dont ask me why...they just were. The Bulls too). Team changed a bit but had Lou(6 time all star who was probbaly considered betterthan Pete at the time) and Walt Bellamy healthy and with Pete his whole Hawks career.

In Petes rookie year The Hawks had 4 players who were either current all stars or within 3 years(until or since) being all stars and that doesnt count Bellamy who put up 15/13, 19/13, and 16/13 Petes first 3 years there. So they basically had 4 stars on the team and a core that before Pete got them to 2 conference finals. Talent doesnt seem to be an issue for them. Pete had teammates in Atlanta.


Granted the New Orleans teams absolutely sucked. But part of the reason why his "win percentage" is so low is because he didn't play that long. Had he played for another team in his mid 30s.... that would have risen.

You mean if hed played through injuries and sat on the celtic bench while Bird and company bumped up his career percentage? sure it would have risen. Wouldnt mean he made it rise.


Oscar Robertson failed to make it out the first round over half the time in his career. But that isn't really pointed out when looking at his career.

Oscar also made 2 ECF as best player(5 overall), won a title as #2 including 2 finals, made 9-10 all nba first teams, won MVP, put up a triple double on average over a 5 year period, led the NBA in scoring, and led the nba in assists. And when he led the NCAA in scoring 3 years in a row(34ppg career average) unlike Pete his teams were good. Pistol scored and never even made the tournament. Oscar went 79-9 in his college career with 2 final fours. Oscar is not one to bring up as a "Well he...." when talking about Pistol Pete. Oscar won some games that mattered. Pistol didnt win a single game that mattered(unless the NIT tournament matters to you) from age 18 to 32 when as a 6ppg(in the playoffs) role player Larry Bird, Tiny Archibald, and Dave cowens drug him kicking and screaming to playoff success. And they still lost in the ECF only getting to the finals when he was gone the next year.

Its a bit of an insult to Oscar to mention him with Pistol Pete. Oscar didnt win like Magic...but he did too much to be compared to Pistol Pete.


Pete may have been selfish. He may not have guady stats. He probably is overrated. But he is probably the greatest showman the NBA has ever seen. And the greatest passer also.

Showman...maybe. Passer? By skills perhaps...not by how effective his passes were. hes lucky they didnt have turnover stats in his entire career. When they finally started counting he averaged 5 a game the first year. More than the all time leader for TOs in a season did. Pete just didnt play enough games to surpass him. The next year he averaged 5 assists and 4 turnovers. Hes 69th in career assists a game. He averaged 5 assists for his career. Best passer ever? Im starting to think Charlie rosen might have been right when he said Pete only passed to make a highlight and was selfish otherwise.

Ive watched some of Petes best games. Ive seen his 68 point game. Guy could shoot the lights out...but no truly willing passer ever approached 70 points. I dont think a guy looking to pass could do it. Not a pointguard I mean. He was as much of a pointguard as Gilbert Arenas.

[berraco]

Rodman

[jo3y91]

this list is bull**** just because people were good dnt mean that there better then players today. seriously u actually think erving is better then kobe, and lebron isnt even considered and the biggest choker in the world dirk nowitzki has been?

[lovethetriangle]

Steve Nash

[Brunch@Five]

can someone answer me why we're voting someone that made ANBA 3rd team once, never was more than the 3rd best player on his team and couldn't score over guys that won MVPs, made several ANBA teams, lead their teams to huge regular seasons and deep into the playoffs?

No team with Rodman as the best or even second best player would ever go deep into the playoffs in any era. He's one of the best role players of all time, but he ain't no star or #47 player of all time.

[Kblaze8855]

No team with Rodman as the best or even second best player would ever go deep into the playoffs in any era.

Dennis was the second best player on the 94 and 95 Spurs and in 95 they made the WCF. In 95 he was all D first team, all nba 3rd team, averaged 17 rebounds in only 32 minutes(per minute it was the best rebounding season since Wilt in 1967), and as mentioned earlier one year they were 42-7 with him and 20-13 without him. They were on a 70 win pace with him and sub 50 win pace without him. The man impacted games and was doing some legendary ****. Sean Elliot was a good scorer but ranking him over rodman in 94 and 95 just...nah.

Dennis was #2 on a deep playoff run. And really...great case can be made he outplayed Pippen i nthe 96 playoffs. Scottie put up 16.9,8, and 6 on 39% shooting in the 96 playoffs and Dennis did 8 points and 14 rebounds and as always had a far bigger impact than his numbers show(so did Pippen but thats an issue for another day). And Dennis was very good in the finals. set a record or two. he had 2 games in the finals with MORE than 10 offensive rebounds alone both of them wins. Know the kind of difference an extra 11 posessions can do in a finals game that ends up 92-88? scottie put up 16/8/5 and shot 34% in the finals.

Dennis was probably the second best player on 2 deep playoff runs(at least playing the second best on the team) and won 5 rings one of them while the DPOY on a team that won with its defense first. The Pistons had 3 all stars when they won the second ring. Isiah, Dennis, and Dumars. And by 93 he was helping carry the pistons who went 36-26 with him and 4-20 without him even with Isiah and Dumars playing the whole season. When he left for the spurs the next season the Pistons went 20-62. Isiah missed about 20 games but cmon...20-62? And Elliot is the one who got traded to the Pistons for Dennis. How much good he do there?

Dennis showed enough to me for me to think he could handle being a #2 on a good team. And fact is...he was. Good as Elliot was he was basically Alan Houston. And Alan Houston level guys just dont belong over Dennis Rodman.

I bet you could drop Dennis Rodman in his prime on a team now and on average hed help more than Pistol Pete would.

[Brunch@Five]

I never disputed he was a great player. But he simply doesn't belong in that group of players that were undisputed leaders of their team, carried the load night in night out, were making ANBA teams every year, and on top of that won MVPs. Pete Maravich was not that type, but Nash and Dirk are. They are indisputably better and more important to their teams than Rodman ever was.

They both have MVPs under their belt ... did Rodman even get one vote?

[Kblaze8855]

Like Dirk or Nash are gonna win the MVP on teams with Drob, Jordan, and Shaq like Dennis was or over Magic, MJ, Hakeem, and such in his Piston days. And since you asked...yes. Dennis did get votes. He got votes in 92, 94, 95, and 96.

As for being more important to teams...they dont make a much bigger difference than a team being 10 games over .500 with him and 4-20 without him. Or on a 70 win pace with them and 49 without them.

Impact on winning isnt a good place to compare them if youre on Dirk and Nash side. Dennis Rodman was on the pistons when they hit the franchise high in wins and won two titles....then left for the spurs who had their franchise high in wins and had more playoff success than ever outside one season i nthe early 80s...then joined the Bulls who won 72 and 69 games and 3 titles. Dennis was never the best player in a traditional sense but that guy had a crazy influence on who won and lost a lot of games and a lot of important games.

I dont even care if hes voted top 50 or not(I didnt even vote). But saying no team with him as a #2 can win just isnt true. Its pretty close to being factually incorrect(I consider Rodman being better than Elliot almost so obvious as to throw out it technically being an opinion).

The guy won everywhere before he got old and not in one single place was that winning done without him playing a major role. Be that defending Jordan and Magic in the same post season, or going and getting 20 rebounds(11 offensive) in 2 finals wins, or making Zo lose his mind and throw away the Heats season because Dennis wouldnt stop pissing him off...Dennis Rodman refused to lose and no matter if hes top 50 or not....I cant question his ability to do what a team needs to win. Especially if hes the #2 on a team because any player better than him is probably going to the HOF and would combine with him to win in any reasonable setting. Not combining Dennis Rodman with a HOF level offensive player and not making a good team barring injury.

Claims he could only be third best or worse on a team to have any playoff success just dont make any sense to me. Unless you think Elliot>Rodman its just flat out not true.

[Brunch@Five]

okay, I was wrong about about him never being #2 on his team. But what about everything else? Being the team's leader? Being relied on to perform night in night out. Being recognized as a top 10, top 5, even best player in the league.

Rodman won with Zeke, DRob and Michael Jordan by his side. Dirk won with Josh Howard and Jason Terry.

[Kblaze8855]

Dirk won what? Dirk got a team to the finals and some great regular season records. When every season of yours ends in a loss "but he won!" shouldnt be the defense when compared to a guy with 5 rings. Dirk as of now isnt even the winner Dennis Johnson is be it as leader or supporting player.

And not all best players are a leader. And Dennis was one of the most consistient players ive ever seen. He was relied on to play well every single night. And he did come to work every night. Dennis went one season where he only had 4 games without double digit rebounds and in all 4 he played 29 minutes or less. He had a 22 game stretch where his worst rebounding game was 15. And to make up for it he had 21 and 31 the next 2 games. Al of which came the same week of a 34 rebound game in which he had 18 of them on offense(NBA record). Damn near nobody was more consistient.

And really...being recognized? Hes a defender. A dirty work player. Bill Russell aside Wes unseld is the only one of those players to really get close to the respect they deserve(and Wes made 4 finals, won a ring, got a finals MVP, and regular season MVP and still had people saying he didnt belong top 40). This is a 7 time rebound leader who many would call the greatest defender/intangibles player of all time at TWO positions just depending on what point of his career you mean. For roughly half the game he was maybe the best player on the floor for his teams from about 87 to 98. Never was he clearly less than #1.

Not his fault his end of the floor doesnt get the love of the flashier end. But all his title teams were defense first teams and he put in major work to make them what they were. Offense win games. Dennis rodman wins championships.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ntAVcACqg_U

Top 50 or not...Dennis had no less an impact on who won and who lost than a number of guys who people put there. He will never get the love of a Reggie Miller who will be a first ballot hall of famer. But im picking teams...I want Dennis.

Dennis Rodman is basically everything a team needs to win on the floor aside from shooting. Dennis rodman is the ugly parts of the game. Dennis Rodman is the physical incarnation of everything Dirk and Nash lack.

Does that make him better than them? No. But Dennis was no joke and deserves more respect than to be treated like nothing in comparison to a pair of people whos failures basically stem from not having enough Rodman in them/on their teams. I will say once so its clear...I dont think Dennis was flat better than either Nash or Dirk.

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/p/01/225/01225_rodmphu008007.jpg

But you cant knock the hustle.....

[Brunch@Five]

I don't and Dennis is one of my favorite players. But when putting together an "best players of all time", guys that won MVPs, made several ANBA 1st teams and were their teams leaders deserve to be ranked higher than Dennis Rodman.

I'm sure there are several teams that would rather have prime Rodman than Dirk on their team. He'd be like a Rasheed Wallace that would put a lot of teams over the hump. But starting a team from scratch, Dirk and Nash are better choices. They are easier to build around, and your prototypical star player. And they succeed in being just that.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

can someone answer me why we're voting someone that made ANBA 3rd team once, never was more than the 3rd best player on his team and couldn't score over guys that won MVPs, made several ANBA teams, lead their teams to huge regular seasons and deep into the playoffs?

Because it is a popularity contest.

Dennis Rodman and Kevin Johnson aren't even going to the Hall of Fame and people on this board think they are better than Nash and Nowitzki, whom both will be in the Hall of Fame easily.

Don't worry about it.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

So basically its the Kobe defense. And the same reality applies. If they didnt suck they wouldnt play good teams in the first round. They won 48 games in each of the 2 seasons before his rookie year and won in the playoffs. They were in the WCF for 2 straight years before Pistol got there. Lost to the lakers both year. Yes the Hawks were a west team at the time(dont ask me why...they just were. The Bulls too). Team changed a bit but had Lou(6 time all star who was probbaly considered betterthan Pete at the time) and Walt Bellamy healthy and with Pete his whole Hawks career.

But you really didn't answer the question:

Did you expect them to win against those 2 teams?

[Kblaze8855]

The question needs an answer? They were a bad team. Bad teams play good teams in the first round. If they were not bad they get a better chance to win in the playoffs. No matter how you look at it...they were bad.

[L.Kizzle]

#46 - Kevin Johnson.

Biggest (:biggums: ) moment in ISH History.

[GP_20]

#46 - Kevin Johnson.

Biggest (:biggums: ) moment in ISH History.

Should've been Top 40 (or Top 30 according to the most intelligent poster to ever post on ISH)

[DirtySanchez]

Kevin Johnson??? Lol

I got Dirk Diggler right now...he should already be on the list.

[TheBigVeto]

WTF Dirk is not in yet?
Dirk should be top 30.
Dirk

[Sakkreth]

Why is Dirk not in top 46 ? :roll:

[kurple]

Why is Dirk not in top 46 ? :roll:
2007

[L.Kizzle]

Should've been Top 40 (or Top 30 according to the most intelligent poster to ever post on ISH)
How does a player who was barley top ten in his prime end up a top 30 player of all time? It don't add up.

[GP_20]

How does a player who was barley top ten in his prime end up a top 30 player of all time? It don't add up.
Considering he played in the most competitive era in NBA history at the time of his peak...it can add up

[1987_Lakers]

K. Johnson being ranked at 46 is pretty bad.

Also lol @ Drexler being ranked ahead of Ewing & W. Frazier.

[Legends66NBA7]

Rodman.

Guy, wrong thread. This is from 2007.

L.Kizzle you shouldn't have bumped this, it's going to confuse people. Can a mod lock the thread ?

[Dave3]

Guy, wrong thread. This is from 2007.

L.Kizzle you shouldn't have bumped this, it's going to confuse people. Can a mod lock the thread ?
Eh, it's really interesting to see how players who haven't played a game since 2007 have had their rankings drastically changed, or how far some guys have come since then.

[Legends66NBA7]

Eh, it's really interesting to see how players who haven't played a game since 2007 have had their rankings drastically changed, or how far some guys have come since then.

It is, but it could have been done without bumping the thread.

:oldlol:

But I'm not surprised at some of the rankings be changed drastically or that popularity and agenda can change things.

The Top 6 from 07 compared to 12 are more or less similar except, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain switch spots completely (I would have them together). John Stockton got completely overrated back then, ranked 22 :facepalm.

I would like to see more discussion in the other thread.

[RRR3]

It is, but it could have been done without bumping the thread.

:oldlol:

But I'm not surprised at some of the rankings be changed drastically or that popularity and agenda can change things.

The Top 6 from 07 compared to 12 are more or less similar except, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain switch spots completely (I would have them together). John Stockton got completely overrated back then, ranked 22 :facepalm.

I would like to see more discussion in the other thread.
Dave, Legends and RRR3 in one thread. Brings back memories:cry:
What's happened to ISH lately, fellas? Lot of trolls

[Legends66NBA7]

When Mod's get ban power, we will see less trolls. It's also the offseason.

This thread needs to be locked too, people are getting confused about the thread voting... also, there seemed to be people trolling by some of the voting selections back in 07. Really weird picks to me.

[RRR3]

When Mod's get ban power, we will see less trolls. It's also the offseason.

This thread needs to be locked too, people are getting confused about the thread voting... also, there seemed to be people trolling by some of the voting selections back in 07. Really weird picks to me.
True. BTW I want to apologize for snapping at you a while back; this place gets to me sometimes.

[Legends66NBA7]

True. BTW I want to apologize for snapping at you a while back; this place gets to me sometimes.

It's cool, forget about it. I get where you were coming from too, should probably just left it be... We should stay out of bait threads.

[Dave3]

Dave, Legends and RRR3 in one thread. Brings back memories:cry:
What's happened to ISH lately, fellas? Lot of trolls
Off season...every thread will eventually become LeBron vs. Kobe vs. Jordan... and school. Once season starts the board will become more active on more diverse topics.

[L.Kizzle]

Considering he played in the most competitive era in NBA history at the time of his peak...it can add up
All the greats from his era were perennial All-Stars and had over a decade or close to a decade being top ten or near it.

Jordan
Dream
Chuck
Stockton & Malone
Ewing
Drexler
Pippen
Robinson
Payton
Wilkins


He was in that second tier of group and didn't set himself apart from the rest:
Mullin
Miller
Richmond
Tim Hardaway
Price