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3ba11
07-27-2024, 11:42 AM
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Pippen 101


Pippen was never a "franchise player" that was required to build anything, and instead he was handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever in 94'.. It wasn't remotely surprising that once opponents woke up in the playoffs, Pippen was exposed and the "real" Bulls without MJ were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned.. It's intuitive that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty as we saw in 95'.

The 93' Playoffs was the lowest combination of PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, and TS for any winning sidekick since the 3-point line was instituted - he averaged 15 on 33% against Dominique in the 1st Round, while getting 0% on threes and 59% on FT's in the Finals (46.9 TS)... Meanwhile, the 96' and 98' runs showed the worst shooting splits ever for a playoff run of 15 games and 35 MPG, which means MJ won with the goat bricklayer/lane-clogger at sidekick.. Pippen afforded opposing coaches the rare luxury of sagging off into the paint and his low peak scoring capability meant that he didn't require double-teaming, so he simply wasn't on scouting reports (a fact that Shaq confirmed publicly). . Pippen averaged 19 on 42% for his Finals career and 17.6 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, so imagine if AD achieved these numbers - there's no amount of defense that would save him from getting destroyed by media and removed from top 75, while getting traded in that offseason.. Pippen's true shooting was below league-average for every year of his playoff career except 89' or 01-03' (no burden in these years), and 91'.

Many people use Pippen's passable play in the 91' and 92' Playoffs to show that Pippen was viable, but they were massive exceptions to the rule that Pippen had bad playoff efficiency such as true shooting or shooting splits, and weak playoff numbers overall - he was a historic bricklayer/lane-clogger and low-scorer with zero clutch and low peak capability (not on scouting report according to Shaq)..

And even though the 91' and 92' Playoffs stick out as viable runs for Pippen, he actually wet the bed in the 92' 2nd Round when he was dominated by X-Man, which nearly caused massive upset loss.. People forget the many debacles by Pippen because no one tracked Pippen's play - he was not held accountable or blamed for wins and losses.. This is because no one thought Pippen was a "go-to" player and they knew not to expect big scoring nights.. Pippen was mostly a dunker in the Derrick Jones mold, except he got 4 years to learn a role in a system that yielded 15-20 ppg.. Otherwise, he was worse than Jeff Green outside this system by averaging 14 ppg on 43% in 1989 and 1999 - the Houston debacle of 14 ppg was just a few months after averaging 20 in the system for the Bulls - Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside MJ, otherwise he was a tertiary option.. Houston HATED pippen and couldn't believe this was the guy that won 6 rings.. History shows that Pippen never played above a Larry Nance or peak Iguodala level, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade..

Pippen's foundation of "just a dunker" gave him a low peak capability.. Teams never worried about him going off and he wasn't on scouting reports according to Shaq, which forced MJ to defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load) in virtually ever series of his career.. This is unprecedented by a long shot because everyone in history needed teammates to lead the team in scoring for entire playoff runs, so Jordan leading every series by 10-30 ppg is unparalleled and GOAT.. (edit: there are 3 series where MJ led Pippen by "only" 9, 8, and 4 ppg... every other series was 10-30 ppg more than Pippen).. Furthermore, many 1st options enjoyed all-time floor generals as sidekicks that averaged 10 assists like Payton, Stockton, KJ or Hardaway, while MJ was forced to tolerate Pippen's 5 assists and lead him in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs (3 title runs).

Sidenote - Pippen was outscored by the majority of opposing SF's in his playoff career - people lose sight of this when they see that he sometimes outscored opposing 2nd option guards that were underperforming against MJ, such as Stockton, Porter, Starks, Dumars, Isiah, Price, Harper, Majerle, Steve Smith, etc, etc.. Guys like Terry Porter dominated with 26 ppg and 8 assists in the WCF but then cratered to 16 ppg against MJ - this is standard and the clear-cut trend of opposing guards against MJ - the double-teaming schemes and greater onslaught wears them out defensively, so they have less capacity for offense.

SouBeachTalents
07-27-2024, 11:59 AM
:roll:

Bro, are you really going to spend the rest of your life doing this? You’ve already sunk a decade into this, 10 years you are never getting back. Are you really going to be here in 2035 still making these same threads about LeBron & Pippen? There’s no way when you were younger you ever planned on spending most of your waking life this way.

Phoenix
07-27-2024, 12:03 PM
:roll:

Bro, are you really going to spend the rest of your life doing this? You’ve already sunk a decade into this, 10 years you are never getting back. Are you really going to be here in 2035 still making these same threads about LeBron & Pippen? There’s no way when you were younger you ever planned on spending most of your waking life this way.

One of the mods is controlling this account. Apparently the fact that we got Olympic FIBA ball going on right now isn't enough to generate activity naturally....so the mandate was put out for another Pippen thread. Now let's sit back and watch as he gets 'banned' again for a few days, and laugh at the sheer stupidity of it all.

3ba11
07-27-2024, 12:12 PM
One of the mods is controlling this account. Apparently the fact that we got Olympic FIBA ball going on right now isn't enough to generate activity naturally....so the mandate was put out for another Pippen thread. Now let's sit back and watch as he gets 'banned' again for a few days, and laugh at the sheer stupidity of it all.


FIBA? I remember sitting on pins and needles in 2008 as Kobe saved us... But nowadays, there's no need to bite my nails because I know we're going to lose.... "b-b-but the world has caught up", which means we didn't get better to maintain the gap and actually got worse... the massive edge has shrunk to basically nothing.. So congrats to Adam Silver for introducing a defensive 3 seconds and hands-off beginner format that produces drive-and-kick spammer skillsets, weak hoops instinct and stone hands touch in higher traffic/higher physicality environments (no mid-range).. And also a colluding and load-managing mentality.. it's sad.. i do look forward to seeing us get smashed in these games... it will prove that bron-ball is a loser, regardless of cast, as I've always said.

StrongLurk
07-27-2024, 12:17 PM
:roll:

Bro, are you really going to spend the rest of your life doing this? You’ve already sunk a decade into this, 10 years you are never getting back. Are you really going to be here in 2035 still making these same threads about LeBron & Pippen? There’s no way when you were younger you ever planned on spending most of your waking life this way.

He has done this way longer than a decade dude...he's been doing this since nba forums became a thing. He clearly has a mental issue and yes he will be doing this as long as he has access to a keyboard. Could be 70 years old and would for sure still be talking about Lebron, MJ and Pip.

Phoenix
07-27-2024, 12:19 PM
FIBA? I remember sitting on pins and needles in 2008 as Kobe saved us... But nowadays, there's no need to bite my nails because I know we're going to lose.... "b-b-but the world has caught up", which means we didn't get better to maintain the gap and actually got worse... the massive edge has shrunk to basically nothing.. So congrats to Adam Silver for introducing a defensive 3 seconds and hands-off beginner format that produces drive-and-kick spammer skillsets, weak hoops instinct and stone hands touch in higher traffic/higher physicality environments (no mid-range).. And also a colluding and load-managing mentality.. it's sad.. i do look forward to seeing us get smashed in these games... it will prove that bron-ball is a loser, regardless of cast, as I've always said.

So you don't want to watch FIBA and you've already admitted you haven't watched the NBA in over a decade, yet nobody here makes more noise than you. Interesting.

3ba11
07-27-2024, 12:26 PM
So you don't want to watch FIBA and you've already admitted you haven't watched the NBA in over a decade, yet nobody here makes more noise than you. Interesting.


Who predicted Ingram would be good?

Who predicted Cade would be a bust?

Who predicted a Denver sweep (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?511799-Denver-in-5-or-sweep) last year when everyone was predicting Laker victory?.. go look at the poll and see the 1 guy on ISH that predicting sweep

Who predicted Celtics in 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?517717-Celtics-in-5) in these Finals when this site predicted Dallas along with most of the media?

And on... and on... I'm a guru with a bird's eye view - I already know what will happen.. And it's due to the bball101 principles that I abide by, spoken about at length on this forum

Phoenix
07-27-2024, 12:29 PM
Who predicted Ingram would be good?

Who predicted Cade would be a bust?

Who predicted a Denver sweep (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?511799-Denver-in-5-or-sweep) last year when everyone was predicting Laker victory?.. go look at the poll and see the 1 guy on ISH that predicting sweep

Who predicted Celtics in 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?517717-Celtics-in-5) in these Finals when this site predicted Dallas along with most of the media?

And on... and on... I'm a guru with a bird's eye view - I already know what will happen.. And it's due to the bball101 principles that I abide by, spoken about at length on this forum

Imagine thinking you have me cornered into a back and forth exchange. Be honored you got one reply today, let alone three.

3ba11
07-27-2024, 12:32 PM
Imagine thinking you have me cornered into a back and forth exchange. Be honored you got one reply today, let alone three.


lol I'm always honored to get a Phoenix reply and view

SouBeachTalents
07-27-2024, 12:35 PM
One of the mods is controlling this account. Apparently the fact that we got Olympic FIBA ball going on right now isn't enough to generate activity naturally....so the mandate was put out for another Pippen thread. Now let's sit back and watch as he gets 'banned' again for a few days, and laugh at the sheer stupidity of it all.
Idk what to make of the mod thing, he was given carte blanche to start as many threads as he wanted, then he got banned for a few weeks. So the behavior is so erratic, I'm not sure what to make of it.

And1AllDay
07-28-2024, 04:05 PM
FIBA? I remember sitting on pins and needles in 2008 as Kobe saved us... But nowadays, there's no need to bite my nails because I know we're going to lose.... "b-b-but the world has caught up", which means we didn't get better to maintain the gap and actually got worse... the massive edge has shrunk to basically nothing.. So congrats to Adam Silver for introducing a defensive 3 seconds and hands-off beginner format that produces drive-and-kick spammer skillsets, weak hoops instinct and stone hands touch in higher traffic/higher physicality environments (no mid-range).. And also a colluding and load-managing mentality.. it's sad.. i do look forward to seeing us get smashed in these games... it will prove that bron-ball is a loser, regardless of cast, as I've always said.

seek help now

ShawkFactory
07-28-2024, 04:15 PM
Who predicted Ingram would be good?

Who predicted Cade would be a bust?

Who predicted a Denver sweep (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?511799-Denver-in-5-or-sweep) last year when everyone was predicting Laker victory?.. go look at the poll and see the 1 guy on ISH that predicting sweep

Who predicted Celtics in 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?517717-Celtics-in-5) in these Finals when this site predicted Dallas along with most of the media?

And on... and on... I'm a guru with a bird's eye view - I already know what will happen.. And it's due to the bball101 principles that I abide by, spoken about at length on this forum

The second overall draft pick? Go off bro

3ba11
07-29-2024, 10:09 PM
The second overall draft pick? Go off bro


You guys hated him.. Only I vouched for him on this forum in 2019 and then he swiftly became an all-star

Now the Lakers wish they had him back for some reliable and high-peak-capability scoring to go along with AD & Lebron.. Ingram can really get his own shot and quickly - he's kind of like a taller Kyrie.

1987_Lakers
07-29-2024, 10:32 PM
OP thought Wemby & Holmgren would bust.

NBAGOAT
07-30-2024, 04:30 AM
You guys hated him.. Only I vouched for him on this forum in 2019 and then he swiftly became an all-star

Now the Lakers wish they had him back for some reliable and high-peak-capability scoring to go along with AD & Lebron.. Ingram can really get his own shot and quickly - he's kind of like a taller Kyrie.

pay attention no team in the league wants to trade for ingram right now. He regressed a bit from his all star lvl and he's got ball dominance issues pels want to trade him. Cade just got a max contract hes far from a bust

ShawkFactory
07-30-2024, 09:10 AM
You guys hated him.. Only I vouched for him on this forum in 2019 and then he swiftly became an all-star

Now the Lakers wish they had him back for some reliable and high-peak-capability scoring to go along with AD & Lebron.. Ingram can really get his own shot and quickly - he's kind of like a taller Kyrie.

Who?

Anyway, he's been a pretty good player. One time all star and the way things are going unlikely to make another one. I wouldn't brag about that one.

3ba11
07-30-2024, 01:50 PM
Who?

Anyway, he's been a pretty good player. One time all star and the way things are going unlikely to make another one. I wouldn't brag about that one.


It's a great one - you guys hated him:



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?472847-Brandon-Ingraham-is-the-worst-player-in-the-NBA
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?459250-Official-Brandon-Ingram-30-point-game-counter


^^^ clear as day - many posts with ISH hating on Ingram - only I thought he was good

I was also the only one to predict the Denver sweep over Lakers in 2023 or the Celtics in 5 over Luka...

I also made the thread "Ant is crusin' for a bruisin'" right before Kyrie destroyed him in Game 1

8Ball
07-30-2024, 10:33 PM
Won 55 games without Jordan.


Jordan 1-9 without Pippen.


Too easy.

3ba11
07-30-2024, 10:43 PM
Won 55 games without Jordan.


Jordan 1-9 without Pippen.


Too easy.


Pippen was never a "franchise player" that was required to build anything, and instead he was handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever in 94'.. It wasn't remotely surprising that once opponents woke up in the playoffs, Pippen was exposed and the "real" Bulls without MJ were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned.. It's intuitive that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty as we saw in 95'.