Lebron mostly lost when he had help, while MJ mostly won

[3ba11]

That's the big difference and this gap in winning ability is skillset based - Lebron's lack of expert jumpshooting skill and ability to play off teammates (off-ball) results in high-scoring ball-dominance and weak ball movement - the high-scoring ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that prevents the great fits and chemistry required for a great-performing cast, aka great team/dynasty.. Without the capacity for great chemistry development, Lebron's team always needs more help (talent), so he's a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy) that never learned how to win (chemistry, organic).

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/cLtt4Rmn/Ypypypyppypypqeqeq.jpg

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/sfPtqbCB/FB-IMG-1564028438731.jpg

[And1AllDay]

0-6 face :oldlol:

https://i.postimg.cc/qBmGNG8b/nba-g-mjlbts-576x324.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/3JkJhK8S/93568962-530121237684015-7963278028627247104-n.jpg

goodnight sweet prince *kiss*
https://i.postimg.cc/ZnyFkGCW/q23y4-RX6033-Xzw-LQ-5549-B19-Jx32.png

[sdot_thadon]

Lucky for you they nuked my thread about Mjs help you were melting down over and I can't be bothered to resurrect it atm.

[3ba11]

0-6 face :oldlol:

https://i.postimg.cc/qBmGNG8b/nba-g-mjlbts-576x324.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/3JkJhK8S/93568962-530121237684015-7963278028627247104-n.jpg

goodnight sweet prince *kiss*
https://i.postimg.cc/ZnyFkGCW/q23y4-RX6033-Xzw-LQ-5549-B19-Jx32.png


Lebron always had all-star teammates because he entered the league with the East All-Star center on his team but was lottery in 05' - the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas needed 3 years to make the playoffs and also acquired a HOF coach and 22/5/5 all-defender.. Since Lebron had 3 years to develop a favored high seed before entering his first playoffs, he never had a low seed until 2021 and 2023 (1st Round losses).

Regarding the 16' Finals - Tatum had his own SIMILAR accomplishment where he's the only guy to barely lead each category like Lebron did or something trivial like that.. Both guys had teammates match their scoring and carry them in key stretches

[SouBeachTalents]

Regarding the 16' Finals - Tatum had his own SIMILAR accomplishment where he's the only guy to barely lead each category like Lebron did or something trivial like that.. Both guys had teammates match their scoring and carry them in key stretches
LeBron led both teams in every category, Tatum led both teams in one. Seriously, why are you always such a lying fakkit :lol All you do is invalidate your points by constantly being dishonest

[Hey Yo]

LeBron led both teams in every category, Tatum led both teams in one. Seriously, why are you always such a lying fakkit :lol All you do is invalidate your points by constantly being dishonest

Cause he knows he has to lie to make LeBron look bad since he surpassed Jordan a while back.

[John8204]

Jordan couldn't win with the number 1 draft pick a 30PPG player and a top ten SG of all-time

[gengiskhan]

That's the big difference and this gap in winning ability is skillset based - Lebron's lack of expert jumpshooting skill and ability to play off teammates (off-ball) results in high-scoring ball-dominance and weak ball movement - the high-scoring ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that prevents the great fits and chemistry required for a great-performing cast, aka great team/dynasty.. Without the capacity for great chemistry development, Lebron's team always needs more help (talent), so he's a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy) that never learned how to win (chemistry, organic).

Any Superstar team hopper to create a super teams to win should never be compared to Magic, Larry and MJ.

MJ had that chance in 1990 as well. After brutal 1990 ECF Game 7 loss At The Palace at Aubern Hills, at age 27.

Not Because Bulls lost, it is because MJs only real side kick could not play on the "road' because of Migraine.

MJ could've forced a trade if possible. 1991 NYK had friend Ewing, a perfect first ballot HOF in Center and Mark J, a

quinticential PG and his friend Oakley, a perfect physical PF. All MJ had to do is become a 1995 Clyde Drexler joining Rockets

to 1991 NYK. The rest would've been a history. A 3-Peat followed by a tragic retirement followed by a 4-peat (1999 SAS defeat).

Like Cavs, MJs Bulls were bottom feeders too. But MJ chose a competitive path instead of collusion path.

I was still ok with LBJ collusion in MIA. But after coming back to another "super' team in cavs and still weak east conf. LBJ ran away

to LA knowing he will for sure get a dominant big men in AD and others. Its an easy way out to collect rings to "chase a ghost" from chicago.

[Axe]

Jordan couldn't win with the number 1 draft pick a 30PPG player and a top ten SG of all-time
Sounds a lot like kobe with gasol, howard and nash. :(

[Carbine]

The Knicks would have had to give their whole team minus Ewing plus every draft pick for the next 5 years to get MJ via a trade considering the Bulls had 5 years of team control.

[gengiskhan]

LeBron led both teams in every category, Tatum led both teams in one. Seriously, why are you always such a lying fakkit :lol All you do is invalidate your points by constantly being dishonest

dont matter. Its really easy to lead even 'super' teams if ball is always in your hands.

this garbage of 'leading all teams' must stop. What do you think happens when you are holding on to the ball 20 of the 24 secs. especially, when assists are handed out like candys even after recipient of the passes does 3 or more dribbles.

dont fool yourself. The toughest Job in any NBA finals is to play like Miller did. off the ball. coming off the screens. always getting the ball with 5 secs left. Either its catch and shot or 1-2 dribble and shoot or pass it off again.

The more a ball dominator touches. the more he is comfy collecting stats. Just look at WestBricks horrible collected stats. LBJ led both teams because he cannot play off the ball. He is a one trick pony. Not because he is more efficient ball dominator. He cannot play without the ball like Bird, MJ.

[gengiskhan]

The Knicks would have had to give their whole team minus Ewing plus every draft pick for the next 5 years to get MJ via a trade considering the Bulls had 5 years of team control.

dont know how that would've worked with seriously pi$$ed off 1990 MJ at age 27.

All I know is, from all these forced trade. Nobody could stop NBA superstars from forcing a trade of his liking.

If it aint 1991 NYK. It could've been 1991 sixers with another friend Sir Charles. Or 1991 rockets with Hakeem.

All 1990 MJ had to say is. just like Pippen said in 90s decade, he has played last game for Bulls uniform and he is out.

Hell, MJ - D'rob in 1991 could've made a killer duo winning multiple rings. easily. MJ had tons of choice to force a trade.

really destroying Krause legacy for drafting weak, timid, physically ineffective 1989 and 1990 Pippen.

[sdot_thadon]

dont know how that would've worked with seriously pi$$ed off 1990 MJ at age 27.

All I know is, from all these forced trade. Nobody could stop NBA superstars from forcing a trade of his liking.

If it aint 1991 NYK. It could've been 1991 sixers with another friend Sir Charles. Or 1991 rockets with Hakeem.

All 1990 MJ had to say is. just like Pippen said in 90s decade, he has played last game for Bulls uniform and he is out.

Hell, MJ - D'rob in 1991 could've made a killer duo winning multiple rings. easily. MJ had tons of choice to force a trade.

really destroying Krause legacy for drafting weak, timid, physically ineffective 1989 and 1990 Pippen.

He wouldn't have, couldn't afford the PR hit to his sneaker/endorsement brand. Dude was walking a constant tight rope of staying politically correct and squeaky clean.

[3ba11]

.
Horry was far superior early in their careers (2nd best player on a champion):



ROOKIE HORRY.............. starter
ROOKIE PIPPEN............. bench-warmer

2nd YEAR HORRY........... 2nd-best player on title team & historic clutch performer
2ND YEAR PIPPEN.......... bum

3RD YEAR HORRY........... played better in 95' Finals than Pippen ever played
3RD YEAR PIPPEN.......... historic "migraine" choke cost MJ title



Horry had higher peak capability:



FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS



Horry agrees with me that he would destroy Pippen:[/SIZE]



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s



TLDR: MJ would've won titles EARLIER and EASIER with horry than pippen.. MJ didn't need Pippen's passing just like Kobe didn't need it and paxson can easily be replaced by any PG like sam vincent let alone someone like derek harper

[sdot_thadon]

.
Horry was far superior early in their careers (2nd best player on a champion):



ROOKIE HORRY.............. starter
ROOJKIE PIPPEN............ bench-warmer

2nd YEAR HORRY........... 2nd-best player on title team & historic clutch performer
2ND YEAR PIPPEN.......... bum

3RD YEAR HORRY........... played better in 95' Finals than Pippen ever played
3RD YEAR PIPPEN.......... historic "migraine" choke cost MJ title



Horry had higher peak capability:



FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS



Evidence #4 - Horry agrees with me that he would destroy Pippen:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s



TLDR: MJ would've won titles EARLIER and EASIER with horry than pippen.. MJ didn't need Pippen's passing just like Kobe didn't need it and paxson can easily be replaced by any PG like sam vincent let alone someone like derek harper

What an idiot. Not even us Rockets fans would've taken Horry over Pippen. Any version.

[plowking]

The level of competition they faced in the finals is night and day.

The Bulls every time they went to the finals had the most talented team. Some of those LeBron teams that went were absolute mid tier at best.

[3ba11]

^^^^ upgrade Paxson to a more playmaking point guard like Kenny Smith or Vernon Maxwell, and then you could replace Pippen with Horry, and upgrade Horace to Otis Thorpe - basically give Hakeem's cast to MJ and MJ would never lose because it's a better cast across the board except Pippen/Horry but Horry is more than up to the task and a historic player in his own right.. Btw, Hakeem had Sam Cassell too, who was like an all-star caliber player (24-year old rookie, savvy leader, historic clutch player from Day 1).. Btw, there's a lot of ways to achieve the #7 defense that the Bulls achieved during the 1st three-peat, which was inferior to nearly ever ECF and Finals opponent - there's many ways to achieve this - many ways skin a cat defensively.. Horry was a very good defender and would be even better alongside MJ and probably get the accolade

[3ba11]

What an idiot. Not even us Rockets fans would've taken Horry over Pippen. Any version.


You're forgetting that the Rockets acquired the 6x champion and hated him - they couldn't wait to get rid of him and couldn't believe that MJ won 6 titles with that crap.

Furthermore, 2nd year Horry was 2nd best player on a champion, while 3rd-year Horry played better in the Finals than Pippen ever did, so MJ would've won earlier and easier with Horry than Pippen.