Popovich & Phil proved ordinary in 2024 or 2007 - needed all-star help for Wemby/Kobe

[3ba11]

Pop and Phil can coach until they're blue In the face, but they won't win with 1 all-star - another all-star to help Wemby or Kobe is the catalyst to winning, not Phil or Pop.. Another example is MJ & Phil - MJ nearly beat the champs in 89' without Phil, so a better cast (all-star help) was the only thing needed to win, not Phil - Phi just happened to arrive the following year when MJ got all-star help and didn't lose 3 straight games for the next 9 years (90-98').

It's important to note that expert jumpshooters or fundamental bigs that produce great ball movement and chemistry will win more with all-star help than ball-dominators, who will still mostly lose, even with TWO all-stars.

[RRR3]

MJ mostly lost.

[3ba11]

MJ mostly lost.


He was unbeatable with all-star help and he had stretches where he mostly won with a cast, while Lebron mostly loses regardless of cast and is extremely beatable with even 2 all-star teammates.

So it's no comparison.

Curry won 3 in 4 years, or Duncan won 3 in 5, or MJ sin 6 in 7. . So they proved that they can mostly win with a cast, while Lebron mostly loses, regardless of cast

[RRR3]

He was unbeatable with all-star help and he had stretches where he mostly won with a cast, while Lebron mostly loses regardless of cast and is extremely beatable with even 2 all-star teammates.

So it's no comparison.

Curry won 3 in 4 years, or Duncan won 3 in 5, or MJ sin 6 in 7. . So they proved that they can mostly win with a cast, while Lebron mostly loses, regardless of cast
So did LeBron :roll:

[Carbine]

The "gotcha" moment when you talk about winning in regards to LeBron is he won more than anyone in his era.

Nobody else has won 4 titles with 4 FMVPs during his time in the league. The next best is Curry with 4 and 1. After that is Kobe with 2 and 2.

When you have won the most during your era, that disqualifies any argument of "not winning enough"

Lebron has lost to a Warriors Dynasty and Spurs Dynasty. He has also beat those same dynasties. He deserves tremendous criticism for Dallas however. Which is why he's #2 all time and not #1.

[3ba11]

So did LeBron :roll:


Not with the same team - Duncan won 3 in 5, while Curry won 4 in 6, or MJ won 6 in 7

But Lebron mostly lost with every cast, so he never proved that he could mostly win with a cast and therefore is inferior to guys that did....

Guys that mostly lose regardless of cast (bron) are inferior to guys that can mostly win with a cast

[Axe]

Four finals mvps > two finals mvps

[3ba11]

Four finals mvps > two finals mvps


No one respects the 2020 ring because a teammate led him in scoring for that playoff run, so Lebron didn't defeat max defensive attention like Kobe did (carry scoring load on championship level, aka defeat max defensive attention)

Lebron lacks the expert jumpshooting skill to defeat max defensive attention/carry scoring load... His lack of expert jumpshooting skill prevents the ball movement required to score big amounts while maintaining sufficient brand to beat top teams, aka lebron is too ball-dominant at high scoring volume to beat top teams - that's why he can't carry scoring load in the Finals (defeat max defensive attention) or carry weak help over top teams (beat top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick)

[Hoon]

I agree, having multiple all-stars is crucial for winning championships. But let's not downplay the impact of great coaching. Popovich and Phil Jackson are masters at creating a system that allows their players to thrive. They can elevate the play of their role players and get the most out of their stars. It's not just about having all-star talent, but also about having a cohesive unit that can execute under pressure.

[3ba11]

I agree, having multiple all-stars is crucial for winning championships. But let's not downplay the impact of great coaching. Popovich and Phil Jackson are masters at creating a system that allows their players to thrive. They can elevate the play of their role players and get the most out of their stars. It's not just about having all-star talent, but also about having a cohesive unit that can execute under pressure.


No..,. Phil arrived at the same time that MJ got all-star help in 1990 - the all-star help was the key, not phil... Similarly, Pop was nothing in 2024 and needs all-star help for Wemby

[Axe]

No one respects the 2020 ring because a teammate led him in scoring for that playoff run, so Lebron didn't defeat max defensive attention like Kobe did (carry scoring load on championship level, aka defeat max defensive attention)

Lebron lacks the expert jumpshooting skill to defeat max defensive attention/carry scoring load... His lack of expert jumpshooting skill prevents the ball movement required to score big amounts while maintaining sufficient brand to beat top teams, aka lebron is too ball-dominant at high scoring volume to beat top teams - that's why he can't carry scoring load in the Finals (defeat max defensive attention) or carry weak help over top teams (beat top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick)
**** you.

[ShawkFactory]

So the moral of the story here is that having talent on a basketball team is crucial for winning? Cool..

[gbaLL]

$occer
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTR8Fwz_WJ9mZ0iHmcJVBNyNQv2GsQcH exf3A&s

[gbaLL]

im going bak 2 $kool
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c9/e2/f9/c9e2f9995478869f34e72cb207a245f6.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/82/a5/02/82a50266ea65ecd1e7fec56bc5bc600d.jpg

[gbaLL]

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/df/84/de/df84de3c682019b494e5ada83b39bca6.jpg

[3ba11]

**** you.


it all adds up doesn't it

[Axe]

Kobe missed the playoffs after phil's first stint with the lakers. Go figure.

[3ba11]

Kobe missed the playoffs after phil's first stint with the lakers. Go figure.


lebron missed the playoffs in his first season in the West, and this was after winning 8 straight Easts by putting the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team

what a joker... then he gets AD to lift his lottery Lakers to the title - you can't make this stuff up.

[Axe]

Kobe is part of the topic that you first brought up itt. Yet all of a sudden, you are bringing lebron into the discussion.

Fukking imbecile. :oldlol: :facepalm

[red1]

baldan legacy aging like sour milk :ohwell:

[3ba11]

Kobe missed the playoffs after phil's first stint with the lakers. Go figure.


The point is that all-star help is the catalyst to team success, not Phil or Pop - Phil arrived at the same time that MJ got all-star help - so it's the all-star help that MJ needed, not Phil... Similarly, Pop had the worst record in the league this year but I'm sure that will change when Wemby gets all-star help, so all-star help is all that Wemby needs... Any decent coach will run a brand of ball that utilizes his skills, so it's the all-star help that was key, not the coach.

[Axe]

Yet jordan didn't win anything with doug collins before. Idc if you say he didn't have all-star help bt. It won't change the fact that you said he's supposedly a better coach than phil and that pippen was a scrub. You can't have it both ways, fool. And stop moving the goalposts ffs. Also there's probably a good chance that pop retires given his old age before wemby wills the spurs to the playoffs.

[3ba11]

Yet jordan didn't win anything with doug collins before. Idc if you say he didn't have all-star help bt. It won't change the fact that you said he's supposedly a better coach than phil and that pippen was a scrub. You can't have it both ways, fool. And stop moving the goalposts ffs. Also there's probably a good chance that pop retires given his old age before wemby wills the spurs to the playoffs.


Pippen missed Game 6 of the 89' ECF - that's the primary reason the Bulls lost in 6.. Otherwise, they could've beaten the bad boys in 89' with zero cast - a 0 percentile cast (better than 0% of casts) according to "thinking basketball".

Imagine Lebron nearly beating the 2014 Spurs by himself - that's what MJ could've done in 89' and 90' but Pippen missed the closeout games both years... Otoh, we saw Horry be the 2nd-best player on a champion during his 2nd season, while 3rd year Horry had a better Finals than Pippen ever had in 95', so MJ would've won earlier and easier with horry than Pippen - that's how low the bar is to match or exceed pippen... Horry was a true alpha, spacer and clutch player, while Pippen was the opposite.

[MrFonzworth]

baldan legacy aging like sour milk :ohwell:

https://i.postimg.cc/Sx9ZWsm0/20240702-024648.jpg

[Axe]

Pippen missed Game 6 of the 89' ECF - that's the primary reason the Bulls lost in 6.. Otherwise, they could've beaten the bad boys in 89' with zero cast - a 0 percentile cast (better than 0% of casts) according to "thinking basketball".

Imagine Lebron nearly beating the 2014 Spurs by himself - that's what MJ could've done in 89' and 90' but Pippen missed the closeout games both years... Otoh, we saw Horry be the 2nd-best player on a champion during his 2nd season, while 3rd year Horry had a better Finals than Pippen ever had in 95', so MJ would've won earlier and easier with horry than Pippen - that's how low the bar is to match or exceed pippen... Horry was a true alpha, spacer and clutch player, while Pippen was the opposite.
11 rings > 0 rings

[PeroAntic]

3ball helping MJ's cause is like Israel helping the fight against antisemitism.

[3ba11]

3ball helping MJ's cause is like Israel helping the fight against antisemitism.



FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS


ROOKIE HORRY.............. starter
ROOJKIE PIPPEN............ bench-warmer

2nd YEAR HORRY........... 2nd-best player on title team & historic clutch performer
2ND YEAR PIPPEN.......... bum

3RD YEAR HORRY........... played better in 95' Finals than Pippen ever played
3RD YEAR PIPPEN.......... historic "migraine" choke cost MJ title



Since Pippen was trash for a few years at the beginning, while Horry was 2nd best player on a champion in Year 2 and then played better in the Finals than Pippen ever did in Year 3, it's clear that MJ would've won earlier and easier with a true alpha, spacer, and historic clutch closer like Horry (the opposite of bricklayer & choker like pippen)

[PeroAntic]

FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS


ROOKIE HORRY.............. starter
ROOJKIE PIPPEN............ bench-warmer

2nd YEAR HORRY........... 2nd-best player on title team & historic clutch performer
2ND YEAR PIPPEN.......... bum

3RD YEAR HORRY........... played better in 95' Finals than Pippen ever played
3RD YEAR PIPPEN.......... historic "migraine" choke cost MJ title



Since Pippen was trash for a few years at the beginning, while Horry was 2nd best player on a champion in Year 2 and then played better in the Finals than Pippen ever did in Year 3, it's clear that MJ would've won earlier and easier with a true alpha, spacer, and historic clutch closer like Horry (the opposite of bricklayer & choker like pippen)

You have brain damage

[3ba11]

You have brain damage


Imagine thinking a player is all-time when literally everything shows that he just happened to be there - there is nothing about his game that is all-time level except defense but so was Bruce Bowen.. Pippen was a low producer, lane-clogger and mental case that would never get noticed if he was losing on the clippers.. He just happened to land alongside the goat entering his prime

[Axe]

You have brain damage
:oldlol: