Could genius IQ Lebron win MVP averaging 15 ppg?

[3ba11]

Of course not . Intelligence is only valued in whites like Steve Nash, so he can get MVP with 15 ppg because he's intelligent and that offsets the lack of scoring

It took one of the most uniquely-charismatic black people (Magic) to have people value his intelligence..

Otherwise, of you're black, you need to average about 30 and it helps if you're super-fancy and can put on your dancin' shoes like Harden.. And get to the dancin' for these white folk

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/59/b4/5959b4f7533dbd6054ba7924e08c248b.gif


White folks love to see a ***** damcin'

[1987_Lakers]

Of course not . Intelligence is only valued in whites like Steve Nash, so he can get MVP with 15 ppg because he's intelligent and that offsets the lack of scoring

It took one of the most uniquely-charismatic black people (Magic) to have people value his intelligence..

Otherwise, of you're black, you need to average about 30 and it helps if you're super-fancy and can put on your dancin' shoes like Harden.. And get to the dancin' for these white folk

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/59/b4/5959b4f7533dbd6054ba7924e08c248b.gif


White folks love to see a ***** damcin'

Bill Russell

[SouBeachTalents]

1-9

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/59/b4/5959b4f7533dbd6054ba7924e08c248b.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/59/b4/5959b4f7533dbd6054ba7924e08c248b.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/59/b4/5959b4f7533dbd6054ba7924e08c248b.gif

[gengiskhan]

I'd give an FMVP to a guy who averages

10 PPG - 15 RPG - 10 APG

[sdot_thadon]

You honestly should keep some of your ideas ro yourself.....

[Neal Romer]

Chris Paul was MVP runner up to Kobe in 08, and it wasnt because of his 21 ppg. It was more about the 12 apg.

A lot of people - many of them white - thought he should have won the award.

:confusedshrug:

[3ba11]

.

Since 1990, 3 guys have won MVP without being top 10 in scoring - Nash, Jokic, and Dirk


^^^^ whites are getting extra credit for something else, while blacks need to score and dance to be MVP.

interestingly, Stockton averaged 15/13 for like 20 years and didn't win shit but some guy comes along with a hippy haircut and gives everyone group think that he's the messiah.. it's interesting to consider the factors that give people group-think.

[tpols]

.

Since 1990, 3 guys have won MVP without being top 10 in scoring - Nash, Jokic, and Dirk


^^^^ whites are getting extra credit for something else, while blacks need to score and dance to be MVP.

seriously, stockton did that shit for like 20 years and he didn't win shit but some guy comes along with a hippy haircut and gives everyone group think that he's the messiah


Well of course...

Caucasians are on average statistically more intelligent and don't need to be able to jump out of the gym or possess Adonis physiques to dominate.

Can you imagine a black guy with Larry Birds physique and movement becoming a top 10 GOAT? ... he'd be pumping gas.

We have fat slow euros like Jokic and Luka dominating the NBA right now over all the athlete types.

It is what its.

[1987_Lakers]

.

Since 1990, 3 guys have won MVP without being top 10 in scoring - Nash, Jokic, and Dirk


^^^^ whites are getting extra credit for something else, while blacks need to score and dance to be MVP.

seriously, stockton averaged 15/13 for like 20 years and he didn't win shit but some guy comes along with a hippy haircut and gives everyone group think that he's the messiah

Jokic & Nash were GOAT tier playmakers when they won the award.

Dirk was on a 67 win team with not a strong supporting cast.

[3ba11]

Jokic & Nash were GOAT tier playmakers when they won the award.

Dirk was on a 67 win team with not a strong supporting cast.


2005 Nash vs Stockton as a starter (88-03')

88-03' Stockton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html#1988-2003-sum:advanced)'..... 22.5 PER.. 7.3 BPM.. 0.217 WS/48.. 7.0 VORP... 14/3/11 on 62 TS... 2.2 spg.. 3.0 tov
2005 Nash (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)............. 22.0 PER.. 4.4 BPM.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 VORP... 15/3/11 on 61 TS... 1.0 spg.. 3.3 tov


Stockton averaged 15/12 for 15 years but didn't win shit, yet some guy comes along with a hippy haircut and gives everyone group think that he's special.. it's interesting to consider the factors that give people group-think.. I think the haircut is what separated Nash from Stockton because it made Nash look more like a top guy.

[Neal Romer]

2005 Nash vs Stockton as a starter (88-03')

88-03' Stockton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html#1988-2003-sum:advanced)'..... 22.5 PER.. 7.3 BPM.. 0.217 WS/48.. 7.0 VORP... 14/3/11 on 62 TS... 2.2 spg.. 3.0 tov
2005 Nash (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)............. 22.0 PER.. 4.4 BPM.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 VORP... 15/3/11 on 61 TS... 1.0 spg.. 3.3 tov


Stockton averaged 15/12 for 15 years but didn't win shit, yet some guy comes along with a hippy haircut and gives everyone group think that he's special.. it's interesting to consider the factors that give people group-think.. I think the haircut is what separated Nash from Stockton because it made Nash look more like a top guy.


:roll:

First you defeat your own point, and then just go full retard.

I think we all know who ISNT gonna be winning any "genius IQ" awards around here...

[3ba11]

.
2005 Nash vs Stockton as a starter (88-03')

88-03' Stockton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html#1988-2003-sum:advanced)'..... 22.5 PER.. 7.3 BPM.. 0.217 WS/48.. 7.0 VORP... 14/3/11 on 62 TS... 2.2 spg.. 3.0 tov
2005 Nash (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)............. 22.0 PER.. 4.4 BPM.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 VORP... 15/3/11 on 61 TS... 1.0 spg.. 3.3 tov



:roll:

I think we all know who ISNT gonna be winning any "genius IQ" awards around here...


what else could be the reason why Stockton's vastly superior performance for 15 years was never considered for MVP while Nash's dogshit performance by comparison is given MVP?

it has to be the hair that fooled people into thinking Nash was a rockstar - he was given a lot of credit for dogshit stats...

And didn't he have Amare who averaged 37 on 55% against the Spurs in the Playoffs?... Yet Nash won MVP that year?... So Nash already had a dominant Malone-type player, yet his 15 ppg is given credit, while Stockton's 15 ppg and goat defense is given nothing... it HAS to be the hair

[Neal Romer]

.

what else could be the reason why Stockton's vastly superior performance for 15 years was never considered for MVP while Nash's dogshit performance by comparison is given MVP?

it has to be the hair that fooled people into thinking Nash was a rockstar - he was given a lot of credit for dogshit stats...

And didn't he have Amare who averaged 37 on 55% against the Spurs in the Playoffs?... Yet Nash won MVP that year?... So Nash already had a dominant Malone-type player, yet his 15 ppg is given credit, while Stockton's 15 ppg and goat defense is given nothing... it HAS to be the hair

You just said it's cuz he's white.

But then you accidentally undermined yourself by comparing him to Stockton.

Now it's the hair :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

2005 Nash vs Stockton as a starter (88-03')

88-03' Stockton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html#1988-2003-sum:advanced)'..... 22.5 PER.. 7.3 BPM.. 0.217 WS/48.. 7.0 VORP... 14/3/11 on 62 TS... 2.2 spg.. 3.0 tov
2005 Nash (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)............. 22.0 PER.. 4.4 BPM.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 VORP... 15/3/11 on 61 TS... 1.0 spg.. 3.3 tov


Stockton averaged 15/12 for 15 years but didn't win shit, yet some guy comes along with a hippy haircut and gives everyone group think that he's special.. it's interesting to consider the factors that give people group-think.. I think the haircut is what separated Nash from Stockton because it made Nash look more like a top guy.

Outside of being white PGs, Nash and Stockton were almost nothing alike. You know that and are obviously just embellishing but it still should be said.

[3ba11]

You just said it's cuz he's white.

But then you accidentally undermined yourself by comparing him to Stockton.

Now it's the hair :roll:


I compared Nash to Stockton to show that he didn't deserve MVP - if Stockton's 15 ppg and goat defense was never considered for MVP, then Nash's 15 ppg and trash defense certainly didn't deserve it

The hair thing was a half-troll - there was a weird group-think around Nash that I don't think any player in history enjoyed.. It was similar to Curry in some ways but without the dominant ability that Curry had, or the dominant winning championships and dynasties.. curry was the real deal

[1987_Lakers]

I compared Nash to Stockton to show that he didn't deserve MVP - if Stockton's 15 ppg and goat defense was never considered for MVP, then Nash's 15 ppg and trash defense certainly didn't deserve it

The hair thing was a half-troll - there was a weird group-think around Nash that I don't think any player in history enjoyed.. It was similar to Curry in some ways but without the dominant ability that Curry had, or the dominant winning championships and dynasties.. curry was the real deal

Nash was a better scorer than Stockton and the best player on his team. Transformed a crappy suns team into title contenders, then won MVP again after having a successful season without Amare.

What you don’t get is MVP awards are usually given to guys on top teams. He won it in ‘05 over past prime Shaq and in ‘06 because Kobe was on a shitty team. The competition really wasn’t that great in terms of MVP candidates.

Stockton wasn’t even the best player on his team, he was never gonna sniff a MVP

[3ba11]

Nash was a better scorer than Stockton and the best player on his team. Transformed a crappy suns team into title contenders, then won MVP again after having a successful season without Amare.

What you don’t get is MVP awards are usually given to guys on top teams. He won it in ‘05 over past prime Shaq and in ‘06 because Kobe was on a shitty team. The competition really wasn’t that great in terms of MVP candidates.

Stockton wasn’t even the best player on his team, he was never gonna sniff a MVP


Nash frequently wasn't the best player on the Suns like in the playoffs against the Spurs and often during the regular season when Amare carried the team

I don't see much difference between a Nash/Amare relationship and Stockton/Malone except the longevity issue with Amare getting hurt or whatever it was.. People misperceived Stockton's value (underrated), but in the opposite way they misperceive Nash (overrated).

And Shaq obviously deserved MVP in 05 - that's was the robbery - that was Shaq's last dominant year - Damon Jones choked it away in those playoffs though and they got rid of him.. Heck, Kobe could've got it that year over Nash.. Nash averaged 15 ppg and was carried in the playoffs

[ShawkFactory]

I compared Nash to Stockton to show that he didn't deserve MVP - if Stockton's 15 ppg and goat defense was never considered for MVP, then Nash's 15 ppg and trash defense certainly didn't deserve it

The hair thing was a half-troll - there was a weird group-think around Nash that I don't think any player in history enjoyed.. It was similar to Curry in some ways but without the dominant ability that Curry had, or the dominant winning championships and dynasties.. curry was the real deal

Who did?

[3ba11]

Who did?


2005 Nash vs Stockton as a starter (88-03')

88-03' Stockton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html#1988-2003-sum:advanced)'..... 22.5 PER.. 7.3 BPM.. 0.217 WS/48.. 7.0 VORP... 14/3/11 on 62 TS... 2.2 spg.. 3.0 tov
2005 Nash (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)............. 22.0 PER.. 4.4 BPM.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 VORP... 15/3/11 on 61 TS... 1.0 spg.. 3.3 tov

[RRR3]

2005 Nash vs Stockton as a starter (88-03')

88-03' Stockton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html#1988-2003-sum:advanced)'..... 22.5 PER.. 7.3 BPM.. 0.217 WS/48.. 7.0 VORP... 14/3/11 on 62 TS... 2.2 spg.. 3.0 tov
2005 Nash (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)............. 22.0 PER.. 4.4 BPM.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 VORP... 15/3/11 on 61 TS... 1.0 spg.. 3.3 tov
He's asking you who deserved MVP over Nash, how are you this stupid?

[PeroAntic]

op abandoned his life and sanity in order to fight windmills in the name of his BLACK idol on a basketball forum, and now it turns out hes racist. :roll:

only way to be a bigger loser is if you shit your pants on a daily basis

[ShawkFactory]

2005 Nash vs Stockton as a starter (88-03')

88-03' Stockton (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stockjo01.html#1988-2003-sum:advanced)'..... 22.5 PER.. 7.3 BPM.. 0.217 WS/48.. 7.0 VORP... 14/3/11 on 62 TS... 2.2 spg.. 3.0 tov
2005 Nash (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)............. 22.0 PER.. 4.4 BPM.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 VORP... 15/3/11 on 61 TS... 1.0 spg.. 3.3 tov

That didn’t answer my question.

[3ba11]

He's asking you who deserved MVP over Nash, how are you this stupid?

his question of "who did" was a response to my post that began with "i compared nash to stockton", so that's what i responded to... he needed to specify what the "who did" referred to since there were multiple options in the sentence that he was responding to.




He's asking you who deserved MVP over Nash, how are you this stupid?



Regular Season

05' Amare... 26.6 PER.. 0.243 WS/48.. 4.7 BPM.. 4.4 VORP... 26.0 on 62 TS... 7.6 +/-.. 10.4 net rating
05' Nash..... 22.0 PER.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 BPM.. 4.4 VORP... 15.5 on 61 TS... 8.9 +/-.. 12.9 net rating

* Amare averaged 37 vs Duncan in playoffs and faced max defensive attention (carried scoring load)


Amare was 9th for MVP but averaged 11 ppg more than Nash with 27 PER (22 for Nash) and higher in everything across the board except margin-of-error deficits in plus-minus or net rating, as shown above.

In addition to Amare, many other guys significantly out-produced and carried bigger loads like Duncan, Shaq, Tmac, Ray Allen or Arenas and all these guys fulfill the minimum win requirements.

[RRR3]

Snivelly tapdancing around the question as usual.

[ShawkFactory]

his question of "who did" was a response to my post that began with "i compared nash to stockton"

It was not.

That's why bolding exists.

[3ba11]

Snivelly tapdancing around the question as usual.


I answered the question directly and provided evidence:

based on superior production than Nash while fulfilling the minimum win requirements, guys like Shaq or Duncan could've easily won MVP over Nash, or even guys like Tmac, Allen or Arenas.

And again, based on superior PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, PPG, efficiency, rebounding, defense, and defeating max defensive attention/carrying scoring load (with only minor deficits in plus/minus or net rating), Amare SHOULD'VE been above Nash in MVP voting.. He was clearly the MVP of that team and it showed in the playoffs when he had an all-time historic domination of Duncan.

carry on

[ShawkFactory]

I answered the question directly and provided evidence:

based on superior production than Nash while fulfilling the minimum win requirements, guys like Shaq or Duncan could've easily won MVP over Nash, or even guys like Tmac, Allen or Arenas.

And again, based on superior PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, PPG, efficiency, rebounding, defense, and defeating max defensive attention/carrying scoring load (with only minor deficits in plus/minus or net rating), Amare SHOULD'VE been above Nash in MVP voting.. He was clearly the MVP of that team and it showed in the playoffs when he had an all-time historic domination of Duncan.

carry on

Why'd they only win 29 games the year before with him then? Surely the real MVP would have fostered a better squad than that, yea?

[3ba11]

Why'd they only win 29 games the year before with him then? Surely the real MVP would have fostered a better squad than that, yea?


It's no different than the 08' cavs winning 45 games before Mo arrived to provide the all-star spacing that Lebron's stiff arm needed - so Nash simply provided the spacing that Amare's stiff arm needed... But Bron and Amare were still the franchise foundations and MVP's that averaged 38 against Dwight and Duncan, respectively

you can't make this stuff up - the historical record always backs my account and claims

[ShawkFactory]

It's no different than the 08' cavs winning 45 games before Mo arrived to provide the all-star spacing that Lebron's stiff arm needed - so Nash simply provided the spacing that Amare's stiff arm needed... But Bron and Amare were still the MVP's and averaged 38 against Dwight and Duncan, respectively

you can't make this stuff up - the historical record always backs my account and claims

:roll:

Solid.

[3ba11]

:roll:

Solid.


Lebron's Lakers were lottery in 2019 before AD arrived

There are plenty other examples such as Kobe's 07' Lakers being weak before Pau arrived.

tons of other examples, so why the laughing?? ... this is bball101 young man - attention when you're in class

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron's Lakers were lottery in 2019 before AD arrived

There are plenty other examples such as Kobe's 07' Lakers being weak before Pau arrived.

tons of other examples, so why the laughing?? ... this is bball101 young man - attention when you're in class

So you're saying Bron was the real MVP of the 2020 Lakers?

Thanks for the notes Professor.

[StrongLurk]

I fully believe a MOD is running the 3ball account at this point.

3ball always had bad content in the past, but his content over the last 3 months is worse than it's ever been. Has to be a mod at this point.

[3ba11]

So you're saying Bron was the real MVP of the 2020 Lakers?

Thanks for the notes Professor.


It's debateable because both came from bad teams.

However, since AD won a game off the 2018 warriors while Lebron was beaten by record amount and swept - I could give the edge to AD - he might've been better from around that time or the 19' season onwards

and sure Lebron got through the 18' East but that's a misperception because there's no "getting thru" swiss cheese... Lebron had a 3-time Finals team and battle-tested championship veterans against competition that had been diluted by bron's collusions into babies like Oladipo and rookie Tatum... again, swiss cheese..

the West always seems to expose Lebron whether it's the 07' Finals showing that a 22 on 35% bum just won the East, or whether it's the 2019 lottery season in his first season out West, or Lebron's 18 run proving to be the worst comp ever (And Bron had the only perennial all-star sidekick in the conference)

[ShawkFactory]

I fully believe a MOD is running the 3ball account at this point.

3ball always had bad content in the past, but his content over the last 3 months is worse than it's ever been. Has to be a mod at this point.

Got that right. It's harmless though so why ban.

[ralph_i_el]

Wes Unseld won averaging 13.8ppg.

He got executive and coaching jobs after playing, so someone had to respect his intelligence.

Only dancing he did might have been some disco.

[3ba11]

Wes Unseld won averaging 13.8ppg.

He got executive and coaching jobs after playing, so someone had to respect his intelligence.

Only dancing he did might have been some disco.


Lebron could never win MVP averaging 15 PPG but Nash did - can anyone explain that???...

why a 15 PPG player with garbage stats and not even the best on his own team win MVP?

[Phoenix]

Great thread OP. How many pages worth of attention we gonna give this one, ISH brethren? Anything under 10 would be disappointing.

[3ba11]

Nash replaced Stephon Marbury and Anfernee Hardaway and changed a 29 win team into a 62 win team. Amar'e, Marion, and Joe Johnson were already there.

The way he changed that team was MVP worthy and it went beyond his own stats





The 23' Lakers had a great turnaround after getting rid of "cancer" Westbrook just like the Suns got rid of Marbury, while Amare went from nothing in 2004 to his breakout year in 2005 (All-NBA 2nd Team):




05' Amare...... 26.6 PER.. 0.243 WS/48.. 4.7 BPM.. 4.4 VORP... 26.0 on 62 TS... 7.6 +/-.. 10.4 net rating
05' Nash........ 22.0 PER.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 BPM.. 4.4 VORP... 15.5 on 61 TS... 8.9 +/-.. 12.9 net rating

* Amare averaged 37 vs Duncan in playoffs and faced max defensive attention (carried scoring load)


Don't forget that AD turned the Lakers from lottery to champion in 2020 by transforming their defense from worst to first and leading the team in scoring - so he turned the Lakers around more than Nash but didn't sniff any MVP consideration - apparently turning a team around doesn't mean much in MVP voting, so your point is poor..

And the 08' Cavs won 45 games before Mo arrived to provide the all-star spacing that Lebron's stiff arm needed - so Nash simply provided the spacing that Amare's stiff arm needed, while Amare and Lebron remained the franchise foundations, statistical foundations, and the "real" MVP's that averaged 38 in the playoffs against Duncan and Dwight, respectively.

Accordingly, the point remains that Lebron and his "genius" IQ could never win MVP with 15 ppg and 22 PER, so how did Nash do it?.. Again, it was one of those weird group-thinks where the media keeps saying one guy is great and eventually everyone believes it - the media settled on Nash, and didn't let go until everyone went along with it.

[RRR3]

Nash was legimitately a better offensive player than MJ. Running a revolutionary offense>contested midrange bricks

[RRR3]

Someone care to explain why the quote in post 38 under my name has comments I've never said?
Because he's psychotic?

[Phoenix]

The 23' Lakers had a great turnaround after getting rid of "cancer" Westbrook just like the Suns got rid of Marbury, while Amare went from nothing in 2004 to his breakout year in 2005 (All-NBA 2nd Team):




05' Amare...... 26.6 PER.. 0.243 WS/48.. 4.7 BPM.. 4.4 VORP... 26.0 on 62 TS... 7.6 +/-.. 10.4 net rating
05' Nash........ 22.0 PER.. 0.203 WS/48.. 4.7 BPM.. 4.4 VORP... 15.5 on 61 TS... 8.9 +/-.. 12.9 net rating

* Amare averaged 37 vs Duncan in playoffs and faced max defensive attention (carried scoring load)


Don't forget that AD turned the Lakers from lottery to champion in 2020 by transforming their defense from worst to first and leading the team in scoring - so he turned the Lakers around more than Nash but didn't sniff any MVP consideration - apparently turning a team around doesn't mean much in MVP voting, so your point is poor..

And the 08' Cavs won 45 games before Mo arrived to provide the all-star spacing that Lebron's stiff arm needed - so Nash simply provided the spacing that Amare's stiff arm needed, while Amare and Lebron remained the franchise foundations, statistical foundations, and the "real" MVP's that averaged 38 in the playoffs against Duncan and Dwight, respectively.

Accordingly, the point remains that Lebron and his "genius" IQ could never win MVP with 15 ppg and 22 PER, so how did Nash do it?.. Again, it was one of those weird group-thinks where the media keeps saying one guy is great and eventually everyone believes it - the media settled on Nash, and didn't let go until everyone went along with it.

That's nice. Where did you pull that quote from?

[Phoenix]

Because he's psychotic?

Like......wtf? Or maybe it was something I said in another topic( I don't recall making the comment) but it sure as hell wasn't said in this one. You can see my contribution in post #37.

[jlip]

I'm convinced that 3ball is on the ISH payroll and is paid to generate traffic. Nobody can continuously post this much nonsense and be serious.

[Phoenix]

I'm convinced that 3ball is on the ISH payroll and is paid to generate traffic. Nobody can continuously post this much nonsense and be serious.

He is. There's no question and half my posts recently have called out this bullshit.

[SATAN]

I fully believe a MOD is running the 3ball account at this point.



It's pathetic. I have no idea why people engage with it.

[3ba11]

I won this thread decisively.. TLDR: media accolade (the group think of a few dozen media members and cuts from HS varsity) means literally nothing in determining how good a player is