The new Athletic nba player poll on GOAT, most overrated, best defender, mvp, and ect

[Kblaze8855]

https://i.ibb.co/qL8Y09V/IMG-8459.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/kqXTzQt/IMG-8456.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/3drB47V/IMG-8455.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

https://i.ibb.co/CB6CVQn/IMG-8458.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

https://i.ibb.co/brtpHpM/IMG-8457.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

There are a few more. Player you would least like to fight and some others. And quite a few players explained their selections. It takes a minute to properly steal an athletic article. Even the archive sites will sometimes include a pop up. I’ll give you the written part in a little bit.

[Real Men Wear Green]

"Most overrated" is always a tricky question. Everyone thinks Jordan Poole is overpaid and/or outright sucks, so how could he be the most overrated? I can't remember him ever winning an award for anything.

[SouBeachTalents]

I wonder what clown said Paul Pierce was the GOAT :lol

[RRR3]

MJ fans INSIST he’s still the consensus GOAT :lol

[SaltyMeatballs]

Kobe having 9.8% of the votes for GOAT is crazy. Fans often measure greatness by how aesthetic a player’s game was and how iconic they were. Kobe checks off both of those boxes but he doesn’t have any case for being in the GOAT convo

[Nowoco]

I stopped reading after Kobe got 10% of the GOAT vote. That tells you everything you need to know about the credibility of this poll.

[Im Still Ballin]

Man, they really don't like Rudy, don't they? Did players think this about Dikembe? He's the obvious historical player comparison and I think he made more money relative to the cap than Rudy.

Is it the type of player he is, the money he's made, and awards he's won, or all of the above?

[tpols]

I stopped reading after Kobe got 10% of the GOAT vote. That tells you everything you need to know about the credibility of this poll.

Agreed with this.

The fact Kobe didn't get at least 30% kinda disqualifies the poll for me.

[Kblaze8855]

Mvp explanations




Jokić voters
• “He’s Jokić. He affects the game in many ways that people just can’t understand — both offensively and defensively, honestly. His defense has gotten a lot better.”
• “He’s unstoppable.”
• “To be this effective the year after winning a championship, when it’s supposed to be harder, is impressive.”
• “Nikola Jokić is MVP. Consistent, still winning, still affecting the team in a number of ways. And it’s noticeable when he’s off the floor.”
• “He’s changed the game. His defense is underrated. He just knows the game so much.”


SGA voters
• “No one expected the Thunder to be what they are this season, and he’s the head of that snake. And he’s consistent every single game — same numbers, and they’re incredible numbers. And he plays on both ends of the floor.”
• “I think he’s the most consistent No. 1 option on his team without a consistent helper. Like, there isn’t really a clear second superstar even though Jalen Williams is coming on as well. I think what he’s doing every game is the most impressive, and it translates into wins.”
• “Obviously, he’s scoring the ball. But the way he shares it and has his team involved is very unselfish. And I think he’s up there in steals as well (tied with Sacramento (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/team/sac-kings/)’s De’Aaron Fox (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/player/deaaron-fox-HK4MAggNlmQ7dgSa/) for the league lead at two per game). And he’s been doing it all season long. …He’s just been really consistent in the style of play that he has. He’s just been dominating the game, and it’s not just points. It’s rebounds, assists, and he’s done a great job of leading that team over there.”
• “Underdog. Just with what OKC is doing, nobody would be mad if they were a 10 seed with their roster. If they were a 10 seed, nobody would be like, ‘Oh, they’re having a bad year.’ They’d be like, ‘They’re still rebuilding.’ … With what he’s doing, I think that’s my MVP.”

[Kblaze8855]

Best defender(Wemby)



Victor Wembanyama said last month (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1768394094840000598?s=20) that his friend and fellow Frenchman Rudy Gobert (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/player/rudy-gobert-HoB7w4Z5ROZnzHO4/) would be a worthy winner of the 2023-24 NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award. But Wembanyama also added that, in future seasons, he, and not Gobert, would be the front-runner.
Their NBA peers, however, feel Wembanyama’s time has already arrived. Players voted the towering Spurs (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/team/spurs/) rookie as the league’s best defender right now.
Wembanyama led the league in blocks, averaging 3.58 per game. His next closest competitor, Utah’s Walker Kessler (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/player/walker-kessler-QJCTnsvWhhoDUYd0/), recorded 2.41 blocks per game.
“He just makes it so hard to finish at the rim,” one opponent said of Wembanyama.
Another player said: “He’s changing the game. Players — you can’t say ‘scared’ — but he’s changing their shots. He deserves it.”
The Grizzlies certainly looked terrified in this three-on-one Wemby highlight that went viral earlier this month.

Grizzlies 3-on-1 against Wemby pic.twitter.com/TEdtKfpYNq (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://t.co/TEdtKfpYNq)
— Rob Perez (@WorldWideWob) April 10, 2024 (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1777871505852133754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Gobert, who would join Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace as the only four-time winners of the DPOY award if he wins it this season, finished fifth in our vote (6 percent). As you’ll see later on in this poll, this isn’t the last time Gobert is questioned by his peers.
Jrue Holiday, the top vote-getter by a wide margin (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/4421645/2023/04/18/nba-players-poll/) in last year’s poll, placed second in the voting this year at 12.9 percent, barely trailing Wembanyama.

Wembanyama voter
“He really, like, affects everything in the paint. He has dudes not even trying to go to the rim. He damn near leads the league in blocks right now, and this is his first year. He’s doing it in limited time too.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505im_/https://cdn.theathletic.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=128,height=128,fit=cover,format=auto/app/uploads/2024/04/17081557/GettyImages-2147758239.jpg
GO DEEPER
NBA award finalists 2024 revealed


(https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/5433703/2024/04/21/nba-award-finalists-mvp-2024/)
Holiday voter
“I think guard defenders are more impressive because they’re on the ball all the time. As a big man, you make up mistakes by helping off your man. So it’s easier. Protecting the paint is somewhat easier than staying in front of the ball.”


Lu Dort voter
“(He) guards multiple positions, (is a) physical defender, guards without fouling — even when at the beginning of the season when the referees were calling fouls. Now, it helps him even more, because they’re not calling fouls.”

[Kblaze8855]

Most overrated:



There’s just something about Gobert’s game that his peers don’t like (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://*********.com/2024/04/16/demarcus-cousins-on-rudy-gobert-you-cant-have-a-4x-defensive-player-of-the-year-who-doesnt-finish-games/). Maybe the skepticism stems from a lack of playoff success, as none of Gobert’s teams have advanced to the conference finals. Or maybe it all traces back to the bubble in 2020, when the Clippers’ (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/team/clippers/) Terance Mann buried all those 3s over Gobert in the West semifinals and sparked serious scrutiny about the perceived limitations of the big man’s game.
Gobert has the elite résumé, though, with the three DPOY awards, three All-Star appearances, an All-NBA Second Team selection and three All-NBA Third Team nods. He has the receipts from this season, as he was the indisputable anchor of a Minnesota defense that was the best in the league while Gobert finished second in rebounds (12.9) and sixth in blocks (2.1) on a team that came just two wins shy of earning the No. 1 seed in the West (it finished third). And as our resident Timberwolves expert Jon Krawczynski wrote in January (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/5202280/2024/01/15/rudy-gobert-timberwolves-defense-teammates/), the truth about those Jazz teams was that their lack of perimeter defense was the real problem that was exposed in those playoffs. These Timberwolves (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/team/timberwolves/) don’t have that deficiency.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505im_/https://cdn.theathletic.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=128,height=128,fit=cover,format=auto/app/uploads/2024/04/17161807/0418_RudyGobert_Neurology-1024x512.png
GO DEEPER
How a Brazilian coach is transforming Rudy Gobert into an offensive threat


(https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/5421528/2024/04/18/rudy-gobert-timberwolves-offensive-development/)Still, Gobert joins Draymond Green (2019) and Trae Young (2023) as the latest winner of this undesirable award.

[Kblaze8855]

Derek White was folded most underrated





Seven seasons in, Derrick White’s top claim to NBA fame is finishing 16th in the media’s 2018-19 Most Improved Player voting and being named to the 2022-23 NBA All-Defensive Second Team. Jalen Williams, in his second season, placed second in last season’s Rookie of the Year voting but was also routinely mistaken on opposing telecasts for the Thunder’s “other” Jaylin Williams. Both Jalen Williams and White were lightly recruited coming out of high school.
So yes, in other words, they’re very familiar with the experience of being underrated. And while both are receiving more acclaim, they’re not the ones commanding the brightest spotlight on their respective teams.
White plays in the shadows of Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Kristaps Porziņģis (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/player/kristaps-porziis-iXclBS6oo11am7Ru/) and Holiday. Williams, meanwhile, is on a dynamic young Thunder team where Gilgeous-Alexander commands most of the spotlight alongside big man Chet Holmgren.
One of the players who voted for White said, “I say that every single day: He’s one of the most underrated players in the league. They talk about him more (now), but they still don’t talk about him enough.”
Said another: “(White) defends really well (and) does a little bit of everything on offense.”
It’s notable, too, that Gilgeous-Alexander finished fourth in the players’ most-underrated voting even though he’s a virtual lock to be an All-NBA First Team selection by the media for the second season in a row.
“I don’t know if you can even say it anymore because he’s starting to get his due, but from a players’ perspective, it doesn’t feel like it’s covered enough,” an SGA voter said. “But what Shai has done this year, just how his progression has gone … I don’t know if you can call him underrated, but it almost feels like how for all those years they were talking about Damian Lillard (https://web.archive.org/web/20240422122505mp_/https://theathletic.com/nba/player/damian-lillard-kE0E92pvJGKazRQb/) (during his Portland years), how he was kind of flying under the radar (because of Steph Curry). But if you asked players, (they would’ve said) he’s one of the best guards in the league, in the top two. So I’m starting to see some of that with how we’re talking about Shai.”

[Kblaze8855]

Agreed with this.

The fact Kobe didn't get at least 30% kinda disqualifies the poll for me.

they asked 140 players. They have been doing it for years. Players acknowledge they vote. Do you think they fabricated the results? 30% would be incredibly high for any group of people other than fans. And even asking fans, you will probably have to choose a specific age group. Fans from maybe 28 to 40?

Kobe was last a good player over 10 years ago. He fell off while a lot of players were in middle school. Wherever he’s ranked, it’s probably all downhill from here. The whole next generation doesn’t really remember him and he was never consistently that high to the fans older than that. why would you think it would be one of three now?

[tpols]

That interaction went right over your head my G. :lol

*whoosh*

[Kblaze8855]

Your troll rate has steadily risen over the years to the point I never know initially.

[tontoz]

Man, they really don't like Rudy, don't they? Did players think this about Dikembe? He's the obvious historical player comparison and I think he made more money relative to the cap than Rudy.

Is it the type of player he is, the money he's made, and awards he's won, or all of the above?


The trade might play a role as well. Minny gave up so much to get him it was ridiculous.

[Norcaliblunt]

Why wouldn’t every player vote themselves for MVP? I mean how are you going to act like a true competitor and vote for someone else? Lol.

[elementally morale]

From the article:


Wembanyama voter

“He really, like, affects everything in the paint. He has dudes not even trying to go to the rim. He damn near leads the league in blocks right now, and this is his first year. He’s doing it in limited time too.”

So when was this poll taken exactly?
It must have been mid-season.

[elementally morale]

Why wouldn’t every player vote themselves for MVP? I mean how are you going to act like a true competitor and vote for someone else? Lol.

You don't have to be dumb to be a competitor. Sure, you have to believe that you will be great NEXT game. But looking back on a season? Imagine Tyrese Maxey claiming he is the MVP (and he is a good starter). Would you think he is being a competitor? I'd think he is trolling or just has no clue.

[Norcaliblunt]

You don't have to be dumb to be a competitor. Sure, you have to believe that you will be great NEXT game. But looking back on a season? Imagine Tyrese Maxey claiming he is the MVP (and he is a good starter). Would you think he is being a competitor? I'd think he is trolling or just has no clue.

I don’t agree. Voting for another man is a way worse look IMO.

And the GOAT poll proves these dudes aren’t thinking too deep into this shit.

[SouBeachTalents]

You don't have to be dumb to be a competitor. Sure, you have to believe that you will be great NEXT game. But looking back on a season? Imagine Tyrese Maxey claiming he is the MVP (and he is a good starter). Would you think he is being a competitor? I'd think he is trolling or just has no clue.
Yeah, it's one thing to believe you can compete with anybody in the league. Automatically believing you're the MVP is just fvcking stupid :lol

[elementally morale]

I don’t agree. Voting for another man is a way worse look IMO.

And the GOAT poll proves these dudes aren’t thinking too deep into this shit.

Respecting others is not a bad look. I'm Rui Hachimura and I'm the MVP. Yeah, sure, whatever.

[Norcaliblunt]

Respecting others is not a bad look. I'm Rui Hachimura and I'm the MVP. Yeah, sure, whatever.

Every all star and borderline all star should vote for themself at least. And every role player should be voting for their all star teammate.

The fact you have stars voting for other stars is what’s comical. But not surprising with this soft ass team up with your friends kind of league.

[elementally morale]

Every all star and borderline all star should vote for themself at least. And every role player should be voting for their all star teammate.

The fact you have stars voting for other stars is what’s comical. But not surprising with this soft ass team up with your friends kind of league.

I'd have a rule that you cannot vote for yourself to make it easier. However, if you are Magnus Carlsen, Mike Tyson or John McEnroe I'm fine with voting for yourself. But for most players they actually become worse players if they think way too much of themselves. Less individualism usually helps in environments you have to work with others.

[Kblaze8855]

The players did vote for MVP for 30 years or so. This is the result from the final year the players voted themselves


https://i.ibb.co/tPJXKHn/IMG-8460.jpg







This is the first year the media took over.


https://i.ibb.co/jb8qZ1M/IMG-8461.jpg




Way more chaotic. The players did have some weird years to be fair though.

[eliteballer]

Juicers can’t be the GOAT.

[RRR3]

Juicers can’t be the GOAT.
Yup. That’s why he only got 9.8% of the vote.

[eliteballer]

So desperate, delusional and deranged:roll:

[RRR3]

So desperate, delusional and deranged:roll:
Did you cry when Juicebe got exposed for going to Germany for illegal doping?

[Norcaliblunt]

I'd have a rule that you cannot vote for yourself to make it easier. However, if you are Magnus Carlsen, Mike Tyson or John McEnroe I'm fine with voting for yourself. But for most players they actually become worse players if they think way too much of themselves. Less individualism usually helps in environments you have to work with others.

Hey I’d be one to agree if the narrative hasn’t always been “you have to believe you’re the best”.

Every self proclaimed GOAT, or player A saying they are better than player B is debatable. But they are allowed to say it because we understand confidence is a necessity when striving to be great.

So when I see these polls and players doing the opposite I find that interesting.

[FultzNationRISE]

https://i.ibb.co/jb8qZ1M/IMG-8461.jpg



Reporter: How would you assess the season so far?

Michael Ray Richardson: The ship be sinkin


Reporter: How far can it sink, Michael Ray?

MRR: Sky's the limit


:roll: :bowdown:

[3ba11]

If Wilt Chamberlain had his own "Klutch Sports" back in the 60's that stood on the highest mountain and proclaimed he was GOAT. while simultaneously sh*tting on Bill Russell with stuff like "we done with the 50's", or "you had 8 HOF teammates and were carried", or "you were just a defender that shot 38% lol we done with 38%"

I guarantee that everyone would lap it up and think Wilt was better than Russell - we can be certain the propaganda would work because the polls show the gap between MJ/Lebron narrowing despite Lebron providing zero of examples of playing on MJ's level since the last poll - Lebron was lottery in 2019 and then 2nd option in 2020, and then disaster ever since such as missed play-ins, 1st Round losses and sweep loss... With zero examples of MJ-level performance since the last poll, we can conclude that the propaganda is worked to narrow the gap... and don't bother with the longevity career totals garbage - everyone that passed arithmetic knows that it's a reflection of playing longer, not better.

So people can claim "consensus top 2" but Lebron isn't... The top 2 label is for winners

You give them good players and they mostly WIN for stretches and have towering dynasties; they don't mostly lose and have weak records

If a player isn't capable of mostly winning with a cast and mostly loses with every cast, then they aren't an elite-level winner and cannot be in the top 2.. This insufficient winning factor is exacerbated if the player also has more bad losses than anyone in history and the worst championship record in history.

And when we look at why Lebron isn't the "winner" that the guys ranked above him were, we quickly find the reasons - it's skill-based - he cannot shoot or play off teammates compared to other all-timers, and the resulting inferior chemistry yields weaker team ceilings, such as perennial underdog status or lottery records on the championship level - that's what Lebron produces when he has help..

This is nowhere near "top 2" all-time.. Absurd... Tonight when you're watching bron-ball get it's yearly spanking, the answer to your inevitable question of "why can't the lakers stop the onslaught?" is that they have to put the Nuggets on their heels defensively, which takes away their offensive capacity.. Unfortunately, we already know that bron's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity for offense (spurs, warriors, nuggets, magic, mavs), while zippy ball movement wears down a defense, so they have less capacity for offense (bron's teams).

[SouBeachTalents]

If Wilt Chamberlain had his own "Klutch Sports" back in the 60's that stood on the highest mountain and proclaimed he was GOAT. while simultaneously sh*tting on Bill Russell with stuff like "we done with the 50's", or "you had 8 HOF teammates and were carried", or "you were just a defender that shot 38% lol we done with 38%"

I guarantee that everyone would lap it up and think Wilt was better than Russell - we can be certain the propaganda would work because the polls show the gap between MJ/Lebron narrowing despite Lebron providing zero of examples of playing on MJ's level since the last poll - Lebron was lottery in 2019 and then 2nd option in 2020, and then disaster ever since such as missed play-ins, 1st Round losses and sweep loss... With zero examples of MJ-level performance since the last poll, we can conclude that the propaganda is worked to narrow the gap... and don't bother with the longevity career totals garbage - everyone that passed arithmetic knows that it's a reflection of playing longer, not better.

So you can claim "consensus top 2" but Lebron isn't... The top 2 label is for winners

You give them good players and they mostly WIN for stretches and have towering dynasties; they don't mostly lose and have weak records

If a player isn't capable of mostly winning with a cast and mostly loses with every cast, then they aren't an elite-level winner and cannot be in the top 2.. This insufficient winning factor is exacerbated if the player also has more bad losses than anyone in history and the worst championship record in history.

And when we look at why Lebron isn't the "winner" that the guys ranked above him were, we quickly find the reasons - it's skill-based - he cannot shoot or play off teammates compared to other all-timers, and the resulting inferior chemistry yields weaker team ceilings, such as perennial underdog status or lottery records on the championship level - that's what Lebron produces when he has help..

This is nowhere near "top 2" all-time.. Absurd... Tonight when you're watching bron-ball get it's yearly spanking, the answer to your inevitable question of "why can't the lakers stop the onslaught?" is that they have to put the Nuggets on their heels defensively, which takes away their offensive capacity.. Unfortunately, we already know that bron's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity for offense (spurs, warriors, nuggets, magic, mavs), while zippy ball movement wears down a defense, so they have less capacity for offense (bron's teams).
1-9

[RRR3]

Snivelball is absolutely losing it over how close LeBron is getting to GOAT in the eye of the public.

[FKAri]

The majority of the players pick Bron over Giannis and Embiid when starting a team, TODAY? Bron stans are thriving at the highest levels of basketball. :applause:

[Axe]

Juicers can’t be the GOAT.
If wemby the giraffe ever becomes one someday, you'd start calling him that too. :oldlol:

[SATAN]

Mikey mythologists clinging for dear life :roll:

[sdot_thadon]

The melt is real.

[ImKobe]

I stopped reading after Kobe got 10% of the GOAT vote. That tells you everything you need to know about the credibility of this poll.

What did you think? Of course a good deal of people around the world have Kobe as their personal GOAT. He had so much impact on this current generation. Stat nerds will try to disqualify him always because he wasn't the most efficient player, but winning 5 and having the run he did from '00-'13 makes him one of the GOATs by default. Worst part about it is that he wasn't even inefficient, but he'll always be hated by the MJ, Duncan, Shaq and Lebron stans because for a period of time ('06-'10) he was more loved and more popular than all of them.

KB pissed off so many fanbases so there's always going to be a divide when it comes to online discourse. Most disrespected top 10 GOAT out of all of them.

[iamgine]

Kobe having 9.8% of the votes for GOAT is crazy. Fans often measure greatness by how aesthetic a player’s game was and how iconic they were. Kobe checks off both of those boxes but he doesn’t have any case for being in the GOAT convo
It's not crazy at all. Greatness criteria vary widely and it's very subjective.

For example, if you were asked who's the greatest person ever to you. It wouldn't be strange to pick your own dad over the likes of Isaac Newton or George Washington.

[ImKobe]

Mikey mythologists clinging for dear life :roll:

Dear life? Jordan's been ranked over Lebron for the 21 years that Lebron's been in the league. Jordan was called the GOAT about 9 years into his NBA career when he was going for his 3rd ring. What has Lebron done since his 2016 championship that would tilt the scales in his favor? No one cares about the longevity records or the bubble championship in a GOAT debate. Jordan had the better peak and Jordan was the better Playoff performer and Jordan won more. If your Lebron argument is "Well, he didn't win as many MVPs or championships or even have a winning record in the Finals, but he played 20+ years at a high level!" then even you don't really believe the shit that you're typing.

[j3lademaster]

So basically, objective numbers and metrics as well as testimonials of his contemporaries point to Jokic being a good defender. Is it just casuals at this point who think he’s average at best?

[ImKobe]

So basically, objective numbers and metrics as well as testimonials of his contemporaries point to Jokic being a good defender. Is it just casuals at this point who think he’s average at best?

EPM says he was in the 53rd percentile on defense this year (bad). Jokic can defend well 1 on 1 in the post and he can gamble and get his deflections, but his slow lateral movement makes him a liability in a lot of situations. If he truly was as good on D as some people claim then the Nuggets would have a much better defense. Jokic does not rotate on a lot of plays, he just kind of stays near the paint to get the DREB and tries to get into the passing lanes but best believe he gets cooked on so many plays. It's obvious when you watch the game with your focus on his individual defense.

[RRR3]

What did you think? Of course a good deal of people around the world have Kobe as their personal GOAT. He had so much impact on this current generation. Stat nerds will try to disqualify him always because he wasn't the most efficient player, but winning 5 and having the run he did from '00-'13 makes him one of the GOATs by default. Worst part about it is that he wasn't even inefficient, but he'll always be hated by the MJ, Duncan, Shaq and Lebron stans because for a period of time ('06-'10) he was more loved and more popular than all of them.

KB pissed off so many fanbases so there's always going to be a divide when it comes to online discourse. Most disrespected top 10 GOAT out of all of them.
Kobe was never more loved than MJ, stop it. And I'm far from an MJ fan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe was never more loved than MJ, stop it. And I'm far from an MJ fan.
He wasn't as loved, but he was as good.

[RRR3]

Dear life? Jordan's been ranked over Lebron for the 21 years that Lebron's been in the league. Jordan was called the GOAT about 9 years into his NBA career when he was going for his 3rd ring. What has Lebron done since his 2016 championship that would tilt the scales in his favor? No one cares about the longevity records or the bubble championship in a GOAT debate. Jordan had the better peak and Jordan was the better Playoff performer and Jordan won more. If your Lebron argument is "Well, he didn't win as many MVPs or championships or even have a winning record in the Finals, but he played 20+ years at a high level!" then even you don't really believe the shit that you're typing.
You can scream LeBron isn't GOAT as much as you want, but it's clearly happening in terms of public perception and you're just going to have to deal with it.

[SATAN]

Kobe was never more loved than MJ

lol@at him using a 4 year time frame. Way more people don't like Kobe than don't like Jordan lol. Half of it is because his hardcore fans are so ridiculously delusional and toxic...

[ImKobe]

Kobe was never more loved than MJ, stop it. And I'm far from an MJ fan.

Yes he was, you forget how much they hyped him in the late 2000s. Jordan and Bron stans pushed back on it but those decade polls showed you how big of a gap there was between Kobe and everyone else in the league at the time. Him doing Jordan things while also playing for the most popular franchise in the league boosted his popularity there's no denying that.

[ImKobe]

You can scream LeBron isn't GOAT as much as you want, but it's clearly happening in terms of public perception and you're just going to have to deal with it.

Once he retires and the hype machine stops people will start looking back on their careers objectively. Bron had the chance to pass Jordan but I think that ship has sailed unless he has a title run as the best player in year 21+ which is something you could point to has never been done by anyone ever. Anything short of that I don't wanna hear it.

[Wally450]

Paul Pierce being 5th GOAT. Hold this W Pierce. :applause:

[ralph_i_el]

Mvp explanations
SGA voters
• “No one expected the Thunder to be what they are this season, and he’s the head of that snake. And he’s consistent every single game — same numbers, and they’re incredible numbers. And he plays on both ends of the floor.”



No one...but me:pimp:

[ralph_i_el]

Paul Pierce being 5th GOAT. Hold this W Pierce. :applause:

I think players give him credit for being not THAT athletic. He's a guy you can emulate.

[kawhileonard2]

Curry and Pierce got votes but not Kareem nor Russell nor Shaq nor Kawhi?

[Naero]

I think players give him credit for being not THAT athletic. He's a guy you can emulate.

I don't know if it's players plural; it sounds like Pierce only had one vote, in which case . . . the voter's rationale is anyone's guess. There is always some fringe GOAT candidate in these polls (Allen Iverson was previously one of them, iirc), which naturally happens when there is only a sample size of votes.

Not to mention, players generally have outlandish takes, especially when it comes to all-time rankings. They're not necessarily right or wrong—everyone's entitled to their own criteria—but they typically don't reflect that well on the general public's opinions.