Nets just fired their coach.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Posting this in case anyone cares. It's unfair in that you don't expect a coach to succeed with no stars and being forced to rely on Ben Simmons. But in the other hand a great coach might have done better?

[rawimpact]

Coaches are unfortunately in a tough position.

Does one want the team to perform to the best of their ability and sacrifice the potential of a higher draft pick?
Or does one play it conservative and keep players healthy and fresh and hope for a franchise-player?

Just tough... all I know is that GMs should be getting the boot as much as the coaches. They get their fair share of the criticism partly because they're out of the public eye.

[ImKobe]

I don't think anyone in the FO expected the team to be good, but they've still underperformed relative to their expectations and Vaughn was not that good of a coach. They don't have the pick (2024 unprotected 1st is going to Houston) so it's not like they could tank the season either. They're trying to win and are failing. They're still only 2.5 games out of the Play-In so it's not like the season's over, a healthy Ben Simmons could make a difference.

Apparently Bridges was the one to call out the coach for his offensive schemes and is upset that they're not running the offense through Ben Simmons more. Simmons was out for most of the season and is still not 100% so it's not like he's had the opportunity to make adjustments around Ben, but I guess Bridges and the FO were not happy with how they ran the offense after Ben did return. I've seen some of their games and the stats also show that they've been struggling on offense as of late. They lost A LOT and the schedule was brutal for them for the past month, but I guess the players grew upset with the coach instead of being realistic about where their team really is in terms of talent.

[NBAGOAT]

bridges has plateaued, miscast as a 1st or 2nd option. If the nets rejected the supposed houston offer of all their own picks back, then they really believe they can be competitive. honestly think they shouldve tanked even without their own picks, memphis offered 4 1st for bridges last year. I think he doesnt get 3 now.

[Xiao Yao You]

Expecting anything from Simmons is a problem

[Real Men Wear Green]

Coaches are unfortunately in a tough position.

Does one want the team to perform to the best of their ability and sacrifice the potential of a higher draft pick?
Or does one play it conservative and keep players healthy and fresh and hope for a franchise-player?

Just tough... all I know is that GMs should be getting the boot as much as the coaches. They get their fair share of the criticism partly because they're out of the public eye. In a way the GM was fired when they traded away Irving and Durant. From the moment they were brought in the stars had all the power. They had Atkinson replaced as coach and picked his successor. Likely also had to approve Vaughn. When the players control the front office it's tough figure out who is really to blame. I guess the finger is too be pointed at whoever agreed to give Durant all the power that he in turn used to empower Irving to do whatever he wanted to. The GM possibly didn't start making his own decisions until they finally got rid of Irving. Very good chance the Nets would have had Atkinson as coach this whole time if they had not given up control.

[FultzNationRISE]

Is he good? Can he coach Lebron?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't think anyone in the FO expected the team to be good, but they've still underperformed relative to their expectations Who expected anything at all? The only team in their division they had a real shot at being better than is the Raptors.
and Vaughn was not that good of a coach. They don't have the pick (2024 unprotected 1st is going to Houston) so it's not like they could tank the season either. They're trying to win and are failing. They're still only 2.5 games out of the Play-In so it's not like the season's over, a healthy Ben Simmons could make a difference.Vaughn never got a healthy Ben Simmons if such a thing exists. They have Mikal Bridges, good player but not an allstar, and then Cam Thomas who has offensive explosions every few nights but is really just a bench scorer on a good team.

[Xiao Yao You]

Adrian Wojnarowski: ESPN Sources: The Nets are talking with assistant Kevin Ollie on the interim head coaching job and are expected to talk more today. (https://*********.com/social/) Ollie — who had a 13-year NBA playing career — won the 2014 NCAA title as UConn’s coach and joined Nets this season after two years running Overtime Elite.
– via Twitter wojespn (https://twitter.com/wojespn)

[Real Men Wear Green]

Adrian Wojnarowski: ESPN Sources: The Nets are talking with assistant Kevin Ollie on the interim head coaching job and are expected to talk more today. (https://*********.com/social/) Ollie — who had a 13-year NBA playing career — won the 2014 NCAA title as UConn’s coach and joined Nets this season after two years running Overtime Elite.
– via Twitter wojespn (https://twitter.com/wojespn)
I wonder what point this serves. They went with Ollie because he knows the system, right? If they aren't going to change the system (and after 50 games how can you?) and are a play-in team at best, what's the point?

[BarberSchool]

bridges has plateaued, miscast as a 1st or 2nd option. If the nets rejected the supposed houston offer of all their own picks back, then they really believe they can be competitive. honestly think they shouldve tanked even without their own picks, memphis offered 4 1st for bridges last year. I think he doesnt get 3 now.Definitley overpaid and overrated because of that one great defensive season, before Luka, Powell, Maxi all showed how to body his extremely slim frame with picks and bumps, into on-ball ineffectiveness against heavier players.

Brooklyn is also one of the least patient, most abrasively uncomfortable places to be overpaid and underachieving in.

[Charlie Sheen]

Posting this in case anyone cares. It's unfair in that you don't expect a coach to succeed with no stars and being forced to rely on Ben Simmons. But in the other hand a great coach might have done better?

Nets probably never wanted him but they could not dismiss him after the way he finished the season. The timing feels like Nets were just biding their time for an opportunity to can him that would not make them look bad to the public.

[beasted]

I don't think anyone in the FO expected the team to be good, but they've still underperformed relative to their expectations and Vaughn was not that good of a coach. They don't have the pick (2024 unprotected 1st is going to Houston) so it's not like they could tank the season either. They're trying to win and are failing. They're still only 2.5 games out of the Play-In so it's not like the season's over, a healthy Ben Simmons could make a difference.

Apparently Bridges was the one to call out the coach for his offensive schemes and is upset that they're not running the offense through Ben Simmons more. Simmons was out for most of the season and is still not 100% so it's not like he's had the opportunity to make adjustments around Ben, but I guess Bridges and the FO were not happy with how they ran the offense after Ben did return. I've seen some of their games and the stats also show that they've been struggling on offense as of late. They lost A LOT and the schedule was brutal for them for the past month, but I guess the players grew upset with the coach instead of being realistic about where their team really is in terms of talent.

Can you share what the expectations were? Is it a certain record? If so, what is a realistic record?

If you think it might be something else, I'm curious what that might be. DFS has fallen off a cliff, Simmons has wasted 30% of the cap on a player that doesn't play.

I'm really confused by this one.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mike Budenholzer currently bills as the most decorated coach on the market and shares obvious Spurs roots with Sean Marks. (https://sports.yahoo.com/why-the-nets-felt-the-need-to-move-on-from-jacque-vaughn-223103428.html) There will be other names to emerge after this postseason shakes out, like Budenholzer before, and Pelicans assistant James Borrego, who has past experience leading Charlotte, was a candidate to join Vaughn’s bench this past summer, sources said.
– via Yahoo! Sports (https://sports.yahoo.com/why-the-nets-felt-the-need-to-move-on-from-jacque-vaughn-223103428.html)

[ImKobe]

Who expected anything at all? The only team in their division they had a real shot at being better than is the Raptors. Vaughn never got a healthy Ben Simmons if such a thing exists. They have Mikal Bridges, good player but not an allstar, and then Cam Thomas who has offensive explosions every few nights but is really just a bench scorer on a good team.

I think they expected to be a .500/Play-In team. They're still relatively close to that but obviously had a horrible month and the best players on the team had problems with the coach. They have a bunch of 2nd tier guys and a decent cast of role players. They shouldn't be having a worse season than the Bulls.

They don't have a 1st round pick so they have no incentive to lose games. The more they lose, the worse the Harden trade ends up looking in retrospect :confusedshrug: .


Can you share what the expectations were? Is it a certain record? If so, what is a realistic record?

If you think it might be something else, I'm curious what that might be. DFS has fallen off a cliff, Simmons has wasted 30% of the cap on a player that doesn't play.

I'm really confused by this one.

Obviously the talent isn't there for them to make any real noise, but they definitely want to be in the Playoff race and at least make the Play-In. I don't think any FO wants a pick that they traded away to end up high in the lottery. It's already bad enough that the KD/Kyrie experiment failed.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think they expected to be a .500/Play-In team. They're still relatively close to that but obviously had a horrible month and the best players on the team had problems with the coach. They have a bunch of 2nd tier guys and a decent cast of role players. They shouldn't be having a worse season than the Bulls. In this very thread you talk about how they needed a healthy Ben Simmons. They are relying on the most unreliable player in the NBA and he completely let them down under Vaughn's administration. No rational person thinks that Bridges and Thomas are going to lead a team to a good record. If those two are second tier the first tier must be enormous.

[beasted]

I think they expected to be a .500/Play-In team.

Not sure that's very realistic at all. I don't know how many teams in the NBA that you spot them a handicap of their highest paid player and 30% of their cap evaporated into thin air that they can stay afloat at .500/play in.

So if that's the expectation with a primary rotation player out, what did the front office think they would be with everyone fully healthy? A 4th seed?

I know that you're just guessing at this, but when you start to put numbers to this you see how readily delusional it can become. I think best case scenario they are where Chicago is, even if healthy... and that's just 5 wins away from where they are now.

Every action should be done with the mindset of what helps the team. Do they believe that having Ollie on a trial period for 28 games will help? Will it give them enough runway to even evaluate him properly? And then, let's say he does slightly better and they finish the season 16-12. That's not likely good enough to get into the play-in... and you're facing the tough decision of extending a limited experience coach a contract as if that worked out so well this last time.

This is the definition of a treadmill move. If you're not calling up a known solid- quality coach like Budenholzer, so that he has time to put a system in place and help give you feedback during the draft and free agency, I don't think it's worth firing in the middle of the season.

[Manny98]

We've hit rock bottom

Things can only go up from here , we've got draft picks + cap space to start building a contender in the off-season with a quality coach like Budeholzer to run the show

[fsvr54]

bridges has plateaued, miscast as a 1st or 2nd option. If the nets rejected the supposed houston offer of all their own picks back, then they really believe they can be competitive. honestly think they shouldve tanked even without their own picks, memphis offered 4 1st for bridges last year. I think he doesnt get 3 now.

They don't play him like a 1st option a lot because that team is full of chuckers. He's not really getting built around.

[beasted]

They don't play him like a 1st option a lot because that team is full of chuckers. He's not really getting built around.

Agree. Cam Thomas has no business being a top 10 usage player in the league with his below league average TS%. That's the one knock I did have on Vaughn. He let the talking heads like Gil guilt him into playing him more than he should.

Cam is a 6th man who should be kept on a leash.

[HylianNightmare]

Vaughn shouldn't be a head coach. He's a great assistant

[Real Men Wear Green]

Agree. Cam Thomas has no business being a top 10 usage player in the league with his below league average TS%. That's the one knock I did have on Vaughn. He let the talking heads like Gil guilt him into playing him more than he should.

Cam is a 6th man who should be kept on a leash.
That is normally true but when a team has so little talent you have to make do with whoever you have. The reason the firing isn't fair is that whether or not Vaughn is a good coach you can't tell just based on wins and losses with this roster that isn't good enough to compete consistently.

[90sgoat]

Nets have become the old Clippers.

[Xiao Yao You]

They don't play him like a 1st option a lot because that team is full of chuckers. He's not really getting built around.

The Nets are rebuilding the roster around forward Mikal Bridges. (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39558023/sources-nets-promote-kevin-ollie-interim-coach-replacing-jacque-vaughn) They hold significant salary cap space and draft capital to build around him this summer and beyond.
– via ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39558023/sources-nets-promote-kevin-ollie-interim-coach-replacing-jacque-vaughn)

[Wally450]

Expecting anything from Simmons is a problem

Bingo.