Do NBA athletes train much more technically than in the past?

[tpols]

There's a lot of other videos like this. But do any of the old heads know if guys used to train like this?


https://youtu.be/dmKM-sn5EYE

This feels like boxing level training. Ridiculous micro level training instead of just shooting drills and scrimmages.

[90sgoat]

I think they train stuff that looks good in videos like this more.

There's really nothing to suggest players overall are better at effective dribbling today if you take away the carries and palming.

Effective dribbling, not flashy dribbling.

If you can't palm and carry, it's pretty difficult to break ankles, so what use is it for a catch and shoot guy like Bogdan to be able to do this? His game is literally either shoot or shotfake, then 2 long strides to the hoop. It's useless in a real game.

Looks fancy sure. Most these trainers imo just seem like fancy pants academics who have weaseled their way into the game.

[ArbitraryWater]

I often see this in tennis also, these micro level workouts... usuay hand-eye coordination or burst/explosiveness related, but also mental...


I just heard a coach gives his (or maybe was a woman) player before a match some insignifcant object which she has to detail for 10-15 minutes, to get the brain working / focus to 100%.


I wonder how much of a difference these things really make.

[Kblaze8855]

There are some really old documentaries that have footage of drills in the 50s and earlier and they did a lot more than shooting drills and run games. And as you get more modern, the drill variety and intensity increases. People were doing the kind of things I saw at the start of that 30 and 40 years ago.

I’ve seen Isiah do something similar. I’ve also heard Kenny Smith describe some of the things he and Jordan had to do under Dean Smith. Serious people did serious training. Even the role players. Jason Williams was doing crazy dribbling drills with ankle weights on his wrists well before he was in the league. Shaq and Chris Webber we’re talking about it once and it turned out he may have got it from God Shamgod who was doing it well before that.

There’s definitely more training on specifics and individual moves with the help of the Internet, popularizing specific techniques, but there was a lot of intensity and variety to training for decades. You imagine Kobe was just shooting around?

I don’t know when the switch was flipped but it wasn’t recently.

I suppose that depends on what you consider recent thought. 2003 feels pretty recent to me but it wouldn’t to many here.

[tpols]

I think they train stuff that looks good in videos like this more.

There's really nothing to suggest players overall are better at effective dribbling today if you take away the carries and palming.

Effective dribbling, not flashy dribbling.

If you can't palm and carry, it's pretty difficult to break ankles, so what use is it for a catch and shoot guy like Bogdan to be able to do this? His game is literally either shoot or shotfake, then 2 long strides to the hoop. It's useless in a real game.

Looks fancy sure. Most these trainers imo just seem like fancy pants academics who have weaseled their way into the game.

I get that certain guys like Durant and giannis are allowed to palm on a level we've never seen before. And they benefit immensely from it.

I'm talking about in general. Bogs like you said is a nobody off the dribble yet they're running him through these intense drills. Drills that build symmetry and maximum coordination. That they do for everyone.

It could be that the organic way of playing ie banging and playing pickup and doing shooting drills was better.

But it also feels like they're training basketball cyborgs out here.

[Kblaze8855]

I get that certain guys like Durant and giannis are allowed to palm on a level we've never seen before. And they benefit immensely from it.

I'm talking about in general. Bogs like you said is a nobody off the dribble yet they're running him through these intense drills. Drills that build symmetry and maximum coordination. That they do for everyone.

It could be that the organic way of playing ie banging and playing pickup and doing shooting drills was better.

But it also feels like they're training basketball cyborgs out here.


Case-by-case. Pistol Pete’s father made him a machine. I’m sure some of it is apocryphal, but the stories you hear about his childhood drills are ridiculous. He then coached him all the way to the pros, letting him go out in college and take 46 shots to score 58 and never win anything at all…and be despised by a lot of teammates.

Kobe was similar. Gym built so he couldn’t fit in as well with people, and he had a difficult relationship with teammates. He’s admitted to sometimes not wanting to give people the ball because he knows they don’t work as hard as he does.

Shitty way to be part of a team but it worked for him. Maybe he was starting from a better base of talent than Pistol? Hard to say. But there is a lot of room for the gym built guys to go bad when forced to play basketball.

[White Hammer]

This feels like boxing level training.

Funnily enough I believe in the early days high school teams would practice boxing drills to work on their fundamentals.

[tpols]

Case-by-case. Pistol Pete’s father made him a machine. I’m sure some of it is apocryphal, but the stories you hear about his childhood drills are ridiculous. He then coached him all the way to the pros, letting him go out in college and take 46 shots to score 58 and never win anything at all…and be despised by a lot of teammates.

Kobe was similar. Gum built so he couldn’t fit in as well with people, and he had a difficult relationship with teammates. He’s admitted to sometimes not wanting to give people the ball because he knows they don’t work as hard as he does.

Shitty way to be part of a team but it worked for him. Maybe he was starting from a better base of talent than Pistol? Hard to say. But there is a lot of room for the gym built guys to go bad and hen forced to play basketball.

It probably made pistol Pete a lot better than he would've been given his physical dimensions. He gave it his all and capped out at 40. Went out on the basketball court like a real G.

And Kobe too. So what if he was anti-social. That's part of what made him great. His dedication. It was higher than most others to a crazy degree.

I don't know where I'm going with this though.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m fine with it personally. Whatever is inside you that motivates you to that level of professional success? I’m not gonna call it a flaw. I’m less sure when it’s parent driven though. The ball brothers were clearly born and raised to be in the NBA and it worked. I’m sure they’re all fine with it now. But does that make it ok to rob your children of the choice of life path?

This is kind of getting off point I guess.

[FultzNationRISE]

I’m fine with it personally. Whatever is inside you that motivates you to that level of professional success? I’m not gonna call it a flaw. I’m less sure when it’s parent driven though. The ball brothers were clearly born and raised to be in the NBA and it worked. I’m sure they’re all fine with it now. But does that make it ok to rob your children of the choice of life path?

This is kind of getting off point I guess.


I remember they were saying during the Finals how Jamal Murray’s dad used to make him squat and dribble a basketball with hot tea cups on his thighs to build concentration and pain tolerance.

I personally hate to hear stuff like that, altho I think it’s all context. Sometimes a kid knows what they want and are committed at a young age and the parent is genuinely trying to show the kid how much it takes. Then it’s not so bad.

Other times you get the Joe Jackson treatment where a parent is just using their kid as a slave to pursue the parent’s dream. Thats always really sad to me.

[eliteballer]

You've got guys in high school and college who train like this now.

[paksat]

gilbert arenas touched on this a bit in one of his podcasts basically saying, "that crap where you dribble through some cones then do a move and then shoot a jump shot or go in for a layup... that is the stupidest sh*t I've ever seen."

anyway, LOL @ getting trained by that fat guy i'm sure that man knows how to get you to the top of the hill for sure

[tpols]

gilbert arenas touched on this a bit in one of his podcasts basically saying, "that crap where you dribble through some cones then do a move and then shoot a jump shot or go in for a layup... that is the stupidest sh*t I've ever seen."

anyway, LOL @ getting trained by that fat guy i'm sure that man knows how to get you to the top of the hill for sure

This is more than your basic cone dribbling.

This is extreme reflex training.

[Full Court]

I remember they were saying during the Finals how Jamal Murray’s dad used to make him squat and dribble a basketball with hot tea cups on his thighs to build concentration and pain tolerance.

I personally hate to hear stuff like that, altho I think it’s all context. Sometimes a kid knows what they want and are committed at a young age and the parent is genuinely trying to show the kid how much it takes. Then it’s not so bad.

Other times you get the Joe Jackson treatment where a parent is just using their kid as a slave to pursue the parent’s dream. Thats always really sad to me.

A lot of stories like that get exaggerated over time...

[SATAN]

Train

Bring back ughh

[paksat]

This is more than your basic cone dribbling.

This is extreme reflex training.

I see that.

My point was an actual very good player at one point thought that the stuff people do these days was silly.

jason williams once said he felt the league was losing skill, not gaining it. Asked why he said that he believes it's because all these players got personal trainers now. Whereas he said that he had to come up with his own stuff growing up.

[Wally450]

I love watching pro athlete training videos. To see how many little things they work on that you think wouldn't help ends up going a long way to these guys' success.

[90sgoat]

It could be that the organic way of playing ie banging and playing pickup and doing shooting drills was better.

But it also feels like they're training basketball cyborgs out here.

I don't see the point probably, because Bogs is never going to be in a role where he is going to square up and try to break someone's ankles.

Relatively speaking, he is never going to learn that more than Giannis will become a high level 3 point shooter.

It's for show imo. Gunning for a contract, then stuff like this looks good. Dwight hitting 20 free throws in a row kind of feel.

[90sgoat]

I could do a whole rant on how nerds have taken over in sports and why their propensity to take things apart and reassemble is why they do this.

People don't care so I'll spare you, but try to consider anyway:

Is that kind of drill applicable to a game situation?

If not, then why practise it and not behind the back and crossovers?

My guess, because nerds have taken over sports, so there's this idea that you can take apart a player, like you take apart an engine, then grease it, then put it back together.

People are not engines though.

It's like how Markelle Fultz, they tried to break him apart, break his shot and substitute a new one and it failed miserably.

It's tough to change someone's shot, because the human brain is not a machine. If you mess with a shot, you might be messing with something else, like some memory, some emotional attachment.

Nerds don't get that. They think humans are machines that can be taken apart, optimized, then reassembled.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its crazy how much less fit players / athletes used to be. At least in tennis. They just didnt seem to take it as seriously. The culture around fitness wasnt the same yet.


Then several new young players came around and everyone had to step up and adapt that same fitness regimen and nowadays everyone is crazy fit.


Stumbled across these pictures of a match in 2010 between Blake (former top 10 player) and Dent:


https://i.gyazo.com/164d5384b46a7e3bdaeaa211b8d87ecf.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/fa97e78575aab982a6b60d5cb82c9c88.jpg


no chance of seing this today

[tpols]

I don't see the point probably, because Bogs is never going to be in a role where he is going to square up and try to break someone's ankles.

Relatively speaking, he is never going to learn that more than Giannis will become a high level 3 point shooter.

It's for show imo. Gunning for a contract, then stuff like this looks good. Dwight hitting 20 free throws in a row kind of feel.

Its... definitely not for show. Nobody saw this til I posted it. Bogs isn't a great dribbler but you can see in all the drills its 1-2 quick dribbles with a feign attached. Basically training himself to get open just enough to launch the shot. This is practical training to the max.

[90sgoat]

Its crazy how much less fit players / athletes used to be. At least in tennis. They just didnt seem to take it as seriously. The culture around fitness wasnt the same yet.

Then several new young players came around and everyone had to step up and adapt that same fitness regimen and nowadays everyone is crazy fit.

no chance of seing this today

I think at the highest level in tennis or boxing or basketball, the benefit of reaching that extra 10% fitness might not be worth it.

The time you need to spend to stay at that level can take away from other workouts that train skill or recuperation.

[Jasper]

I could do a whole rant on how nerds have taken over in sports and why their propensity to take things apart and reassemble is why they do this.

People don't care so I'll spare you, but try to consider anyway:

Is that kind of drill applicable to a game situation?

If not, then why practise it and not behind the back and crossovers?

My guess, because nerds have taken over sports, so there's this idea that you can take apart a player, like you take apart an engine, then grease it, then put it back together.

People are not engines though.

It's like how Markelle Fultz, they tried to break him apart, break his shot and substitute a new one and it failed miserably.

It's tough to change someone's shot, because the human brain is not a machine. If you mess with a shot, you might be messing with something else, like some memory, some emotional attachment.

Nerds don't get that. They think humans are machines that can be taken apart, optimized, then reassembled.

Lets start with Nerds : if they came up with the science that made a better athlete to play a whopping 48 minutes and look like he just broke a sweat , you would be first in line...
Karl Malone pushed the limit on working out so he no longer got pushed around.
Jordan pushed the limit in regards less fat , wind and strength helped beat all odds and become a 6x champion.
Giannis pushed towards endurance to become a stable athlete.

Most players now days work just as hard in the weight and endurance rooms as well as fine tuning a jumper.
Tell me breaking down a guys jumper and fixing it did not help Bulls, Ball ??

These are professional athlete's trained by the best trainers in the world as well as coach's.
Players that get to the NBA know this is heaven .

[90sgoat]

Lets start with Nerds : if they came up with the science that made a better athlete to play a whopping 48 minutes and look like he just broke a sweat , you would be first in line...
Karl Malone pushed the limit on working out so he no longer got pushed around.
Jordan pushed the limit in regards less fat , wind and strength helped beat all odds and become a 6x champion.
Giannis pushed towards endurance to become a stable athlete.

Most players now days work just as hard in the weight and endurance rooms as well as fine tuning a jumper.
Tell me breaking down a guys jumper and fixing it did not help Bulls, Ball ??

These are professional athlete's trained by the best trainers in the world as well as coach's.
Players that get to the NBA know this is heaven .

Nerd ball allows less talented but harder working players to succeed more often.

Nerd ball might screen out players that are not fast enough, endurance enough, strong enough, never giving them a chance.

This is what I'm seeing in the US. It's all about who gets what on "the combine", where as in Europe, they still train and judge by skill.

Also, I should call it something else than nerd, because it isn't.

It's more akin to scientism, this belief that "the science" makes everything better and yet, we have Nicki Minaj and Marvek.