What makes a player entertaining to you personally?

[Kblaze8855]

There has been a lot of talk about Jokic being boring and before that Duncan was widely considered the same. I don’t agree but I’ve come to accept I like weird things. I go back to a video on YouTube about Bird and Waltons 2 man game a few times a year just to giggle at back door cuts like a child. So…whatever. Can’t really use myself to judge. I was listening to a show and a guy from New York(white guy…Knicks fan) explained that:


“I wanna say “Wow” now “How” when watching”.

Implication being it’s amazing Jokic can get the ball in the basket the way he does but it’s amazing because it shouldn’t go in not because what he did to get it there was beautiful, graceful, or spectacular. It’s “How?” not “Wow”. And his belief was the 1 amazing pass a game doesn’t make up for it.

Has me wondering what is a realistic amount of “Wow”, to expect from Players who generally are considered exciting?

His comparison was to watching Wade. So….

Wade in 06 scoring 42 in the finals:




https://youtu.be/MauSmDAkRBc


I would say there are 2 plays one might usually find in a highlight package. 2 “wow” plays.

In a huge game he did take over.

But aren’t even the most spectacular players mostly just making simple plays?

pull up Kobe. Or LeBron. Whole game highlights. 1-2 “Wow” moments maybe. You get 4 seconds of “Gaaaaaaaaa-damn!” does that make 44 minutes of standard plays exciting?

Is it the anticipation of said plays? Knowing they can happen whenever?

it really isn’t something I can wrap my head around because if you show me a Tim Duncan 36 I’m entertained by the whole thing.

I can enjoy Sheed fadeaways, Chris Paul pull-ups, or Stockton threading the needle. So I don’t really get any of it.

Aside from the people making an effort to put on a show like say…Magic? Isn’t most of what everyone does pretty basic?

You might remember 45 minutes of Vince Carter highlights but the games are almost all long jumpers and a couple “nifty” drives. We see so many highlights of people we forget that most superstars average basket is no more exciting than most role players.

So I leave you with 2 questions…


Who would you say was most consistently creating what you consider highlight worthy plays in your time as a fan?

and

Give me a couple players who you personally consider boring.

Id imagine that second question will generate some agenda based responses but whatever. It’s the offseason.

[Kblaze8855]

I’ll say Jordan and Magic were the most entertaining on a regular basis.

Far as boring? Exempting role players who aren’t ever gonna make traditionally exciting plays? So I’m kicking out the PJ Browns and Steve Novaks of the world and focusing on stars?

It’s hard for me to even think of anyone. It just doesn’t cross my mind while watching someone. I guess maybe…Kyle Lowry on offense? I can ignore the TV and be confident nothing will happen I need to wait for a replay of. I guess it’s just basic people like that who don’t stand out highlight package wise.

I can’t really name anyone I’d call a superstar I ever really found boring to watch. I didn’t like Harden in Houston just dribbling in place and stepping back but that was more annoying than I’m downright boring.

I truly might not have an answer.

[Kblaze8855]

Elton Brand.

Im not sure he has a single play in my memory I was impressed by.

You might be able to dig one up but I think he’s my answer. Carlos Boozer might also be in that category.

Under sized but physical non leaping traditional power forwards might have this to themselves.

[Norcaliblunt]

He plays for my favorite team or a city I like, know about, have lived.

I identify with him because he grew up somewhere close to my area.

He is my race.

Average size guy. 5’9” to 6’3” get extra props.


On the court? Winning.

[eliteballer]

Not sure what you're looking for here, you want guys dunking from the FT line every time down?

Kobe is also much closer to Jordan than LeBron in terms of pure entertainment value.

I loved watching Duncan's Spurs..they won with fundamentals, teamwork, execution.

Good basketball is entertaining.

[FultzNationRISE]

Yao Ming.

Seems like a great guy but basketball wise I always found him a bit overrated and kinda boring to watch.

[Norcaliblunt]

I find lobs/alley oops the most spectacular play in basketball so whoever does those the best from both sides is the most entertaining to me.

It’s weird because it’s seems like you don’t see it as much anymore.

[iamgine]

Mostly when players do things that is unusual.

Boban dominating smaller players, Curry hitting unreal shots, Rodman's on court antique, Nash's passing mastery, Kobe's unconscientious hero ball, Giannis freak athleticism, Alvarado stealing method, etc.

They're all entertaining.

[warriorfan]

confidence mixed with creativity

[Axe]

When he ups his game on both ends in the playoffs. Raptors kawhi felt very special to me imo because the north were huge underdogs in their finals series against the warriors and it was an ultimate payback for what happened to him in 2017. It was also interesting to see him play in the east and take over that conference during that time.

[Full Court]

Lots of things about the sport that are entertaining, but for me personally, the most entertaining thing to watch is high level ball handling.

[sbw19]

Unpredictability, precision, athletic superiority, competitive fire. In that order.

[bdonovan]

Sports are entertainment; there's no practical significance whether Utah wins or LA or Chicago win. So it has to be something you feel.

What fans look for is aesthetic skill. Tim Duncan had excellent footwork; there was skill you could appreciate. When Steph Curry dribbles in and out of traffic, that's something you can admire. When LeBron anticipates the shot and blocks the ball into the crowds, same thing.

(I appreciate Norcaliblunt above being honest and saying "I identify with him because he grew up somewhere close to my area......He is my race." We may as well be candid about it. )

Aesthetic skill is vague. If I think about boxing, the Klitschko brothers dominated the heavyweight division for years but were boring.

They excelled at jabbing from a distance. Dancing around the ring, jabbing from a distance is a real skill but it's not aesthetic. They were the least interesting heavyweight champions. They won, but did not make many fans.

We're lying if we say all we care about is winning or skill alone.

What Jokic does in using his 280 lbs to back his opponent down and then turn and shoot an awkward jumper with his elbow sticking out to ward the defender is skill. I just don't find it too interesting. To me it's the basketball equivalent of jabbing from a distance. If you're like Norcaliblunt though, you may be drawn to his game because someone who resembles you is demonstrating excellence.

I never liked flamboyant players who were big on flair, especially with ISO moves, but weren't efficient or team players. Jamal Crawford comes to mind. Amazing, flashy drives; but in my view, didn't really help the team.

I think people are looking for all-around greatness as well as aesthetic skill.

[Clifton]

Obviously I love watching Jokic, and it's not even occurred to me to scrutinize his scoring. I don't think I've ever given one thought to the way he scores the ball. What you're watching with him is the way Aaron Gordon establishes position under the basket because he knows he's going to get the ball if he gets open. Criticizing Jokic's scoring is like not wanting a Ferrari because the engine is ugly.


But aren’t even the most spectacular players mostly just making simple plays?

pull up Kobe. Or LeBron. Whole game highlights. 1-2 “Wow” moments maybe. You get 4 seconds of “Gaaaaaaaaa-damn!” does that make 44 minutes of standard plays exciting?
Players like Jordan, Kobe, Carmelo, every time they touched the ball on offense their whole soul was immediately processing how they were going to kill the person in front of them. It's like a guy who's constantly trying to fight everyone he sees. That's what makes someone like Kobe entertaining every minute he's on the court. He's a killer just waiting for a victim, and such people are interesting to watch even when they're not actively killing, because they're constantly setting themselves up for it.

Kobe was a psychotic murderer. Jokic is the president who signs on the dotted line authorizing a nuke to be dropped on Japan. Nobody wants to watch a Netflix series about Truman, but we're all over Dahmer. One is more effective at what they're doing, and that same one is more interesting to a thinking person. But the other is of more obvious and immediate appeal for someone who's not all in.

[Clifton]

Who would you say was most consistently creating what you consider highlight worthy plays in your time as a fan?
Jason Kidd. It wasn't just him. It was the way everyone else moved when he was on the court. The Nets, the Mavs, even the Knicks. People forget he was a big part of Carmelo's most memorable Knicks team. That team was at its best when old Kidd (and even old Sheed, remember that?) were healthy, having high IQs and moving the ball around.

Examples of players I really like that you probably don't, just off the top of my head, are: Brent Barry, Brandon Bass, Ish Smith, Walter Herrmann, Antonio Daniels, Boris Diaw, Andre Miller, Travis Outlaw, Tayshaun Prince, and Josh Smith. I don't know what they have in common. I like players who are unique, or who excel in a skill I consider valuable, especially when other people aren't up on them.


Give me a couple players who you personally consider boring.
My two favorite teams are the Celtics and Wizards, so this pains me, but I find Bradley Beal, Jayson Tatum, and Jalen Brown to be 3 of the most boring players I've ever watched.

Harden would be up there if it weren't for his passing, which is absolutely magnificent. I hate everything about the step-back and foul-hunting game, though.

[basketballcat]

Entertaining:
Technique, basketball IQ, fortitude, winning

Not entertaining, regardless of the above:
Egomaniac, cocky/arrogant, cheater/dirty

Examples:
Entertaining: Duncan, Kawhi, Jokic, Kidd
Not entertaining: Embiid, Curry, Jordan, CP3

[FultzNationRISE]

Sports are entertainment; there's no practical significance whether Utah wins or LA or Chicago win. So it has to be something you feel.

What fans look for is aesthetic skill. Tim Duncan had excellent footwork; there was skill you could appreciate. When Steph Curry dribbles in and out of traffic, that's something you can admire. When LeBron anticipates the shot and blocks the ball into the crowds, same thing.

(I appreciate Norcaliblunt above being honest and saying "I identify with him because he grew up somewhere close to my area......He is my race." We may as well be candid about it. )

Aesthetic skill is vague. If I think about boxing, the Klitschko brothers dominated the heavyweight division for years but were boring.

They excelled at jabbing from a distance. Dancing around the ring, jabbing from a distance is a real skill but it's not aesthetic. They were the least interesting heavyweight champions. They won, but did not make many fans.

We're lying if we say all we care about is winning or skill alone.

What Jokic does in using his 280 lbs to back his opponent down and then turn and shoot an awkward jumper with his elbow sticking out to ward the defender is skill. I just don't find it too interesting. To me it's the basketball equivalent of jabbing from a distance. If you're like Norcaliblunt though, you may be drawn to his game because someone who resembles you is demonstrating excellence.

I never liked flamboyant players who were big on flair, especially with ISO moves, but weren't efficient or team players. Jamal Crawford comes to mind. Amazing, flashy drives; but in my view, didn't really help the team.

I think people are looking for all-around greatness as well as aesthetic skill.


Translation: I resent him being white.

It’s ok, you can admit it. :confusedshrug:

Tribalism is a trait that varies in degree between every individual. Some have it naturally heightened, some are naturally lower. It’s not “wrong” more than any other innate personality trait is wrong.

Youre denying a motive every single other person here can CLEARLY see is present. Why? To hide what??

You can be yourself here bud.

Just come on out of the closet.

We’re waiting for you. Liberate yourself.

[Kblaze8855]

Translation: I resent him being white.


Most people who consider him boring would probably also say Duncan was boring. The discussion I heard that inspired me to ask this was entirely among white people. I don’t really hear people saying Luka is boring.

People just aren’t all into that style and a lot of people seem to barely care about passing at all.

[Kblaze8855]

Brent Barry, Brandon Bass, Ish Smith, Walter Herrmann, Antonio Daniels, Boris Diaw, Andre Miller, Travis Outlaw, Tayshaun Prince, and Josh Smith. .


Id say Brent, Walter, and Josh Smith were traditionally exciting players. I’d also add Diaw for me personally.

[FultzNationRISE]

Most people who consider him boring would probably also say Duncan was boring. The discussion I heard that inspired me to ask this was entirely among white people. I don’t really hear people saying Luka is boring.

People just aren’t all into that style and a lot of people seem to barely care about passing at all.

I'm speaking of bdonovan in particular. (And note how he said Duncan WASNT boring, only Joker :lol)

He's obsessed with race in basketball, as countless posts he's made attest. Including many in which he directly pins Jokic's acclaim as a player on being white.

Now that all of his arguments against Jokic's performance have indisputably been destroyed, he is seeking in pathetic fashion to undermine Jokic on a purely superficial level. He has nitpicked and split every hair IMAGINABLE to discredit the best player in basketball, because he is white.

Bdonovan is simply a textbook racist, that's all. And that's fine that that's who he is. He can just say it. He doesnt have to hide it.

Instead he denies it and points the finger at everyone else for racism. Like a preacher who's homo on the low but publicly castigates all the homosexual boogiemen out there.

Like he's so tensed up, angry, and anxious about this shit, but deep down it's about his own issues and not everyone else. He doesnt see how transparent that is.