Jordan: "Larry Bird is far better than LeBron James"

[eliteballer]

Michael Jordan: “Larry was a debate. He still is. People ask me all the time who my all-time five top players are, and when I start saying Larry, they interrupt me. They say, ‘You’ve got to be kidding me. He can’t play with LeBron James!’ I tell them, ‘You guys don’t get it. Larry is far better than any small forward who played the game, and to be honest, I’m still not sure if he is a small forward or a power forward.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/michael-jordan-said-larry-bird-is-far-better-than-lebron-james-and-any-other-small-forward-in-nba-history/ar-AA15rLUf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=451d1dd3812d4754b45cf83be30f124c

[FultzNationRISE]

Obviously MJ's not gonna say the guy who kicked HIS ass couldnt even hold a candle to the real King of this game.


But we all know ;)

[3ba11]

Bird has the elite jumpshooting skill required to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run, aka 10 ppg more than all teammates)

He accomplished this rare feat in upset fashion over Magic/Kareem/Worthy super-team

As an expert jumpshooter, Bird could shoot over defenses, so he needed less spacing help than Lebron, while also elevating teammates more (not imposing spot-up roles)

[eliteballer]

Obviously MJ's not gonna say the guy who kicked HIS ass couldnt even hold a candle to the real King of this game.


But we all know ;)

Dirk kicked LeRoid's ass in the finals, what would BIRD do?

[Yeezy]

larry was nikola jokic and luka doncic before the nba went soft

he actually had to hit real shots over real defense by real athletes

my top 2 skilled players ever have always been kobe/bird

[kawhileonard2]

Dirk kicked LeRoid's ass in the finals, what would BIRD do?

This! And Dirk beat Lebron without HCA.

[FultzNationRISE]

Dirk kicked LeRoid's ass in the finals, what would BIRD do?

Uhhh first of all dont be disrespectful when you refer to my King, SECOND of all Wade and Spo sabotaged Lebron by trying to force Wade into the first option role and give him the glory, but he failed terribly and therefore Lebron is absolved of any blame.

DEAL WITH IT.

[3ba11]

Obviously MJ's not gonna say the guy who kicked HIS ass couldnt even hold a candle to the real King of this game.


But we all know ;)


Imagine if 2 guys were matched up in the Finals, and one guy's skillset yielded teams that could dominate the championship level and be undefeated on that level, while the other guy's skillset yields lottery records on the championship level regardless of cast (20-21 in the Finals excluding 07', 15', 18')

So a matchup of MJ vs Lebron in the NBA Finals would be a bigger joke than the 14' Finals or 11' or 17' or 18'.... or 07'.... or 15'.... or 13' before the miracle.... or 16' before Klay opened his mouth and inspired Kyrie to average 30 on 53% for the last 3 games against the only unanimous league MVP in history.

[StrongLurk]

MJ isn't a trustworthy evaluator of talent unfortunately based on his draft picks...

[Axe]

. = 1 dot
.. = 2 dots
... = 3 dots
.... = 4 dots

[kawhileonard2]

MJ isn't a trustworthy evaluator of talent unfortunately based on his draft picks...

Sure he is with proven talent and superstars and all time greats. He wouldn't be able to pick a Tom Brady if drafting but a Peyton Manning he would.

[Chick Stern]

Bird has the elite jumpshooting skill required to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run, aka 10 ppg more than all teammates)

He accomplished this rare feat in upset fashion over Magic/Kareem/Worthy super-team

As an expert jumpshooter, Bird could shoot over defenses, so he needed less spacing help than Lebron, while also elevating teammates more (not imposing spot-up roles)

In head to head Finals competition, Bird only beat Magic once.

[Full Court]

LeShrivel has no case at all over Bird or Magic.

[John8204]

I got MJ/Lebron/Bird in my top five the issue with Bird/Lebron is where you put them on the court because one a SF and the other PF.

[3ba11]

In head to head Finals competition, Bird only beat Magic once.


Magic had the GOAT as a teammate (kareem is goat in many people's view), so his 3rd best player (Worthy) was as good as Bird's 2nd best player (McHale)

It was a miracle that Bird upset the Lakers in 84' - just complete domination of a goat team without an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention like Lebron had in 2016, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention like Bird did (never carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run)

[r15mohd]

Magic had the GOAT as a teammate (kareem is goat in many people's view), so his 3rd best player (Worthy) was as good as Bird's 2nd best player (McHale)

It was a miracle that Bird upset the Lakers in 84' - just complete domination of a goat team without an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention like Lebron had in 2016, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention like Bird did (never carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run)

kareem is not even top10 in your list, so how are you even using him in this as a reference...nothing but a hypocrite.

now go ahead and rewrite your top 10 for the 100th time

[1987_Lakers]

Magic had the GOAT as a teammate (kareem is goat in many people's view), so his 3rd best player (Worthy) was as good as Bird's 2nd best player (McHale)

It was a miracle that Bird upset the Lakers in 84' - just complete domination of a goat team without an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention like Lebron had in 2016, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention like Bird did (never carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run)

Worthy as good as McHale? lol

[3ba11]

Worthy as good as McHale? lol


not far off and probably equal or close

Magic had a far superior cast - this is obvious and that's why the Celtics were underdogs every time - Bird upset him once and nearly twice

[3ba11]

kareem is not even top10 in your list, so how are you even using him in this as a reference...nothing but a hypocrite.

now go ahead and rewrite your top 10 for the 100th time


I'm using your logic (that Kareem is a goat candidate)

Based on that logic, Magic should literally never have lost.. ever.

But obviously he isn't the goat and I recently included centers back in my top 10 - i concluded that expert jumpshooters need the least help to win so they're above centers, who are above ball-dominators (who need the most help to win).... the rankings are mj, kobe, bird, curry, russell, wilt, kareem, duncan, shaq, magic, lebron.... expert jumpshooters > centers > ball-dominators... based on the amount of help needed to win

[r15mohd]

Magic had a far superior cast - this is obvious and that's why the Celtics were underdogs every time - Bird upset 8him once and nearly twice

Curry had a far superior cast - this is obvious and that's why the Cavs were underdogs every time - Lebron upset him once (2016) and nearly twice (2015)

something seems very similar here ... let's see how good you are at backpedaling

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm using your logic (that Kareem is a goat candidate)

Based on that logic, Magic should literally never have lost.. ever.

But obviously he isn't the goat and I recently included centers back in my top 10 - i concluded that expert jumpshooters need the less help to win so they're above centers, who are above ball-dominators (who need the most help to win).... the rankings are mj, kobe, bird, curry, russell, wilt, kareem, duncan, shaq, magic, lebron.... expert jumpshooters > centers > ball-dominators
Kobe had prime Shaq for 8 years, based on that logic, Kobe should literally never have lost.. ever.

[3ba11]

something seems very similar here ... let's see how good you are at backpedaling


I didn't post that garbage about Curry because it's false - the Cavs were the preseason favorite in 15' and 16' because Kyrie/Love were perennial all-stars while Klay/Dray were 1st time all-stars heading into 2015

But a bad brand of ball caused Lebron's favored talent (preseason favorite) to fall to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') except the ray allen miracle - so only a miracle stopped lebron's bad brand of ball from underachieving the talent expectation (preseason favorite) for 6 straight years.

[r15mohd]

I didn't post that garbage about Curry because it's false - the Cavs were the preseason favorite in 15' and 16' because Kyrie/Love were perennial all-stars while Klay/Dray were 1st time all-stars heading into 2015

But a bad brand of ball caused Lebron's favored talent (preseason favorite) to fall to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') except the ray allen miracle - so only a miracle stopped lebron's bad brand of ball from underachieving the talent expectation (preseason favorite) for 6 straight years.

please stfu about preseason bs narrative...no one takes that into any relevance but you, and you continually try to push it as some kind of valid statement. tell us who's fav going into playoffs or finals, those actually mean somehting

[3ba11]

Kobe had prime Shaq for 8 years, based on that logic, Kobe should literally never have lost.. ever.


Kobe wasn't getting playing time for a while and it was his first few seasons, so only the 2000-2004 seasons really count and he mostly won with Shaq those years

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe wasn't getting playing time for a while and it was his first few seasons, so only the 2000-2004 seasons really count and he mostly won with Shaq those years

Now you want to use context, but ignore "GOAT candidate Kareem" wasn't in his prime for most of the 80's.

[3ba11]

please stfu about preseason bs narrative...no one takes that into any relevance but you, and you continually try to push it as some kind of valid statement. tell us who's fav going into playoffs or finals, those actually mean somehting


here's why bird's title was better

Kyrie was an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron didn't defeat maximum defensive attention and never did for his entire career (never carried scoring load in Finals)

Otoh, Bird defeated maximum defensive attention by carrying the scoring load for the playoffs and Finals or title run in 84' (10 ppg more than all teammates for playoffs and Finals)

that's an objective reason why Bird's title was superior - he defeated maximum defensive attention

And the reason that Bird could carry the scoring load is skill-based.. expert jumpshooters can score a lot while the ball moves, so they have sufficient brand of ball to carry the scoring load against top teams.. otoh, ball-dominators lack sufficient brand of ball at carry-job volume to beat top teams (too ball-dominant), so they need all-time scoring help like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe wasn't getting playing time for a while and it was his first few seasons, so only the 2000-2004 seasons really count and he mostly won with Shaq those years
Kobe was a full time starter and All-NBA in '99, so it looks like, according to your criteria, he "mostly lost" with Shaq like LeBron "mostly lost" with Wade/Bosh & Kyrie/Love despite winning at literally the same rate.

[r15mohd]

here's why bird's title was better

Kyrie was an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron didn't defeat maximum defensive attention and never did for his entire career (never carried scoring load in Finals)

Otoh, Bird defeated maximum defensive attention by carrying the scoring load for the playoffs and Finals or title run in 84' (10 ppg more than all teammates for playoffs and Finals)

that's an objective reason why Bird's title was superior - he defeated maximum defensive attention

And the reason that Bird could carry the scoring load is skill-based.. expert jumpshooters can score a lot while the ball moves, so they have sufficient brand of ball to carry the scoring load against top teams.. otoh, ball-dominators lack sufficient brand of ball at carry-job volume to beat top teams (too ball-dominant), so they need all-time scoring help like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie

where's the gif when you need it...went from the preseason bs to now def max attention bs

[Lebron23]

Because Jordan was 0-6 against Larry Bird in a playoffs series. Anyway Bird even acknowledged than Lebron is better than him. 4x NBA MVP, and 4 Finals MVP is better than 3x nba mvp, and 2x finals mvp. Lebron is also the better playoffs regular season and finals performer.

[SATAN]

So LeBron breaks that MJ record and then ol' Mikey puts a subtle jab out there. :oldlol:

It couldn't be more obvious. Kinda sad at this point.

In 2016 Mikey also had this to say about Russell Westbrook: "30 years ago, that's me". :milton

[HylianNightmare]

No shit

[Spurs m8]

Water is wet

[ImKobe]

Bird does get underrated in these conversations. His peak was as good (if not better) than Bran's.

[WhiteKyrie]

Bird was a PF with SF skills. Who didn’t need to ball dominate to score or facilitate with expert passing. IMO better than Magic before his back went out too. Better defender than Magic as well. People don’t ever want to say that because they assume white and not super athletic as automatically not being a good defender. But Bird could defend his position better than Magic ever could. A guy like Sleepy Floyd never lit Larry Legend up for 51 in a playoff game.

With that said, don’t have him ranked over LeBron. And don’t have LeBron ranked over him either. I go by the tier system for NBA legends. Because there has only been one guy obviously better than the rest.

Jordan
Magic / Bird / LeBron
Kareem / Hakeem / Shaq / Russell / Wilt / Kobe

[StrongLurk]

In head to head Finals competition, Bird only beat Magic once.

I'd argue the Lakers played better than the Celtics in the 84 finals but just couldn't close when needed. The Lakers actually outscored and outassisted the Celtics that series but still lost in 7 games. The Celtics big advantage was they shot and made a lot more free throws (made 51 free throws more than the Lakers).

[Full Court]

Bird does get underrated in these conversations. His peak was as good (if not better) than Bran's.

His peak was slightly better. The only thing Bronie has over Bird is longevity, but I rank Bird ahead of him because Bird never had to collude and hop to stacked teams to get his resume.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird was a PF with SF skills. Who didn’t need to ball dominate to score or facilitate with expert passing. IMO better than Magic before his back went out too. Better defender than Magic as well. People don’t ever want to say that because they assume white and not super athletic as automatically not being a good defender. But Bird could defend his position better than Magic ever could. A guy like Sleepy Floyd never lit Larry Legend up for 51 in a playoff game.

With that said, don’t have him ranked over LeBron. And don’t have LeBron ranked over him either. I go by the tier system for NBA legends. Because there has only been one guy obviously better than the rest.

Jordan
Magic / Bird / LeBron
Kareem / Hakeem / Shaq / Russell / Wilt / Kobe
If we're talking all time ranking, not prime, what is your argument for Magic & Bird not only being on the same tier as LeBron, but an entire tier above Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq & Hakeem, and apparently 2 tiers above Duncan :lol

[1987_Lakers]

His peak was slightly better. The only thing Bronie has over Bird is longevity, but I rank Bird ahead of him because Bird never had to collude and hop to stacked teams to get his resume.

He didn't need to collude because he already had a stacked team around him.

[Full Court]

He didn't need to collude because he already had a stacked team around him.

Ohhhhhhhhhh I see. Bronie NEEDED to collude. I mean, he had no other option, right?

[1987_Lakers]

Ohhhhhhhhhh I see. Bronie NEEDED to collude. I mean, he had no other option, right?

If Bird got drafted by that Cavs team and stayed there his entire career, there is a good chance he doesn't win a ring and wouldn't be in top 10 convos.

Bird played with the greatest frontcourt ever, his teams had hall of famers left and right, acting like LeBron won with elite talent & Bird didn't is flat out wrong.

Not only does LeBron have the longevity, but he was a far better playoff performer, he also has Bird beat in MVPs & titles. There is no argument to rank Bird ahead of LeBron.

It's like ranking Hakeem ahead of Kareem, he simply doesn't have the resume.

[Full Court]

If Bird got drafted by that Cavs team and stayed there his entire career, there is a good chance he doesn't win a ring and wouldn't be in top 10 convos.

Bird played with the greatest frontcourt ever, his teams had hall of famers left and right, acting like LeBron won with elite talent & Bird didn't is flat out wrong.

Not only does LeBron have the longevity, but he was a far better playoff performer, he also has Bird beat in MVPs & titles. There is no argument to rank Bird ahead of LeBron.

It's like ranking Hakeem ahead of Kareem, he simply doesn't have the resume.

That's funny, because Bronie went BACK there later and won a ring with the Cavs. Just think if he had stayed and built the team up. He probably would have won more than just a single ring with them. He hurt his own legacy by doing that.

[SouBeachTalents]

That's funny, because Bronie went BACK there later and won a ring with the Cavs. Just think if he had stayed and built the team up. He probably would have won more than just a single ring with them. He hurt his own legacy by doing that.
They would have never been able to draft Kyrie without LeBron leaving and instantly becoming the worst team in the league.

[1987_Lakers]

That's funny, because Bronie went BACK there later and won a ring with the Cavs. Just think if he had stayed and built the team up. He probably would have won more than just a single ring with them. He hurt his own legacy by doing that.

This is terrible logic, They got Kyrie & Wiggins (later traded for Love) in the draft with the #1 overall pick, they were able to get those players because they were garbage without LeBron. If LeBron stays there they wouldn't have had lottery picks & the Cavs front office would have continued to fail him, this is the same front office who turned downed an Amare for Hickson trade.

LeBron leaving and winning rings actually helped his legacy. Just like KG leaving Minnesota helped his legacy, or Moses leaving Houston and winning in Philly helped. Wilt leaving the Warriors and winning with the Sixers and later on with the Lakers helped.

[ArbitraryWater]

LeShrivel has no case at all over Bird or Magic.

Yeah, I guess not if we eliminate all tanglible factors and standard measuring sticks.

[colts19]

Larry Bird actually made the players around him better. Bron just turns them into spot-up shooters. Parrish wasn't considered anything special when he was with Golden State. They traded him and a first round pick for Joe Barry Carrol for christ sake.Bron is to ball dominate to make other players on his team better. They all get worse, because they are only used to help pad Bron's stats.

[1987_Lakers]

Larry Bird actually made the players around him better. Bron just turns them into spot-up shooters. Parrish wasn't considered anything special when he was with Golden State. They traded him and a first round pick for Joe Barry Carrol for christ sake.Bron is to ball dominate to make other players on his team better. They all get worse, because they are only used to help pad Bron's stats.

I can't trust someone's opinion who doesn't know how to spell "Parish".

[100grandman]

OP basically took what Jordan said out of context. Then sprained his wrist typing when he knew he could spin it as taking a shot at Lebron. He was really saying Bird is the greatest forward of all time, which he isn’t. Someone made a great point about Jordan’s talent evaluation.

[tontoz]

OP doesn't know what it means to use quotation marks. :facepalm

At least he isn't obsessing over Lebron's body like he normally does.

[colts19]

I have some nerve problems in my right hand and sometimes I double-type a letter with it. I should proofread it.

[Lebron23]

I can't trust someone's opinion who doesn't know how to spell "Parish".


This

I doubt Larry Bird can lead a team with Boobie Gibson as his 2nd scoring option in the NBA Finals.

[bison]

another L for 'LeGoat'

[ImKobe]

This

I doubt Larry Bird can lead a team with Boobie Gibson as his 2nd scoring option in the NBA Finals.

Of course he could. The East was pathetic in 07.

[SATAN]

OP doesn't know what it means to use quotation marks. :facepalm

At least he isn't obsessing over Lebron's body like he normally does.

:yaohappy:

[FKAri]

Is he good? Can LeGM nab him?