Remember when the East's top three 1st options decided to team up on 1 team?

[3ba11]

.
The "decision" to consolidate power from 3 Eastern teams was an unprecedented assemblage of talent that won 3 titles in 6 years and preseason favorite status for 6 straight years (11-16').. So Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years before responding in 2017 and he obviously faces a major double standard by the media, who excuse Lebron's 6-year headstart in the colluding space..

The Heat were so stacked that they won the 13' Finals without winning when Lebron was on the floor (0 plus-minus and negative net rating for Lebron).. Lebron only averaged 25 and Wade 20, so it wasn't a carry-job and therefore below other peaks like 2000 Shaq or 91-98' Jordan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Chris Bosh was NOT better than Dwight Howard. FOH :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Remember when the Bulls won 55 without MJ?

[3ba11]

Remember when the Bulls won 55 without MJ?


Bosh won 48 with his own team

Wade won a chip

So that's like the power of two 55-win teams joining Lebron.. Consolidating power in the East

Then they added Ray Allen to save them if needed

[TheMan]

Remember when the Bulls won 55 without MJ?

Yeah, I remember that, didn't even get to the ECFs and they were already forged through fire champs...huge letdown.

[1987_Lakers]

Bosh won 48 with his own team

Wade won a chip

So that's like the power of two 55-win teams joining Lebron.. Consolidating power in the East

Then they added Ray Allen to save them if needed

What happened when LeBron left Miami? Miami misses playoffs.

MJ leaves Bulls? Pippen is an MVP candidate, Armstrong and Grant make all-star team and they win 55 games.

:roll:

[Manny98]

Remember when Bosh and Wade proceeded to miss the playoffs after LeBron left?

[Wally450]

No, I don't remember. It never happened.

[RRR3]

Make a convincing case Bosh was noticeably better than Danny Granger in 2010, OP. Oh wait you can’t.

[TheMan]

What happened when LeBron left Miami? Miami misses playoffs.

MJ leaves Bulls? Pippen is an MVP candidate, Armstrong and Grant make all-star team and they win 55 games.

:roll:

LeBron is a team killer, he makes teammates into glorified jump shooters because he dominates the ball so much, when he leaves, his team falls to pieces because they never actually ran any semblance of an offense.

OTOH, MJ played within an offense, players knew their role, when he left, the rest of the team knew what their role was and they knew they had to step up their game to try to fill the huge void left by the GOAT...alas they scraped their way to 55 wins in the regular season but without the GOAT, they weren't really a real threat to win it all. MJ returned later, the players already knew their roles and bam, another 3peat led by the GOAT.

How many 3peats does LeFraud have again?

Thought so...:lol

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron is a team killer, he makes teammates into glorified jump shooters because he dominates the ball so much, when he leaves, his team falls to pieces because they never actually ran any semblance of an offense.

OTOH, MJ played within an offense, players knew their role, when he left, the rest of the team knew what their role was and they knew they had to step up their game to try to fill the huge void left by the GOAT...alas they scraped their way to 55 wins in the regular season but without the GOAT, they weren't really a real threat to win it all. MJ returned later, the players already knew their roles and bam, another 3peat led by the GOAT.

How many 3peats does LeFraud have again?

Thought so...:lol

So they had Spo who many consider the best coach in the NBA, Wade & Bosh who were veterans, a month of training camp, but they still couln't figure it out, damn sounds to me like Bron carried these dudes all along. (If you watched those games, Bron did carry them in the '13 & '14 playoffs)

How many times did MJ win without Pippen again?

Thought so...:lol

[3ba11]

So they had Spo who many consider the best coach in the NBA, Wade & Bosh who were veterans, a month of training camp, but they still couln't figure it out, damn sounds to me like Bron carried these dudes all along. (If you watched those games, Bron did carry them in the '13 & '14 playoffs)

How many times did MJ win without Pippen again?

Thought so...:lol



2014 ECF

Lebron..... 22.8 and 5.5 apg
Wade....... 19.8 and 4.7 apg


Show me where Jordan won the East with 22.8 and 5.5 apg..

Ultimately, the East was decimated when it's top three 1st options decided to consolidate power on 1 team.. By 2014, the Heat only needed as couple Wiggins or Pippen performances from Lebron/Wade to win the decimated conference..

[John8204]

Bosh had a single All-NBA selection before joining Miami?

I don't think you could call Bosh top five in the east (Lebron, Pierce, Wade, Rose, Howard, Johnson, Bosh, Jamison, Jackson)

[3ba11]

:facepalm:

[3ba11]

Bosh had a single All-NBA selection before joining Miami?

I don't think you could call Bosh top five in the east (Lebron, Pierce, Wade, Rose, Howard, Johnson, Bosh, Jamison, Jackson)


Nonsense

Those guys were either old or inferior


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2021/ZypWBI.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2021/5G4JES.gif

[3ba11]

.
Clutch Points (last 5 within 5) for 2016 2nd Round:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-01-2022/-5mtpL.gif

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=2&PerMode=TotalsMode=Totals



Clutch Points for 1994 2nd Round:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/jbCxdB.gif


Pippen also amazingly had zero clutch points for the entire 98' 2nd Round (here (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=2&PerMode=Totals))

[3ba11]

.
The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF without Lebron just like 94' Bulls without MJ


Playoffs

16' WADE'...... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' PIPPEN.... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%


^^™ the difference is that Wade was building the Heat like a real 1st option does, while Pippen drove the Bulls downward and was borderline lottery in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat caliber

Wade has far superior scoring, efficiency, and clutch, while also having better apg and bpg and FMVP.. He would've had 2 FMVP but Lebron choked in 2011 after Wade led the team in scoring for those playoffs





What happened when LeBron left Miami? Miami misses playoffs.

MJ leaves Bulls? Pippen is an MVP candidate, Armstrong and Grant make all-star team and they win 55 games.

:roll:


Unlike the 93' Bulls, the 14' Heat weren't 3-peat champs and were the equivalent of a 1st Round Western team (as evidenced by their records loss to Spurs).

So the Heat fell from a 1st Round Western caliber to missing the 15' playoffs by 1/2 game because because Wade/Bosh missed 40..

But in 2016, Wade rebuilt the Heat by nearly carrying them to the ECF with peak Pippen stats (above)..

So Wade grew the Heat like an elite 1st option is supposed to do, while Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months - the 95' Bulls were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned to restore 3-peat caliber

[AirBonner]

I have LeBron ahead of MJ

[3ba11]

I have LeBron ahead of MJ


So do a lot of non-serious people like Shannon Sharpe, Nick Wright and Ryan Hollins

[RRR3]

3ball is in a nursing home.

[Gohan]

Make a convincing case Bosh was noticeably better than Danny Granger in 2010, OP. Oh wait you can’t.

If you dont think bosh was better than granger, you need to stop watching basketball and start watching crochet

[Spurs m8]

Yeah, I remember that, didn't even get to the ECFs and they were already forged through fire champs...huge letdown.

Then MJ returns and they 3peat AGAIN.

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT MAKE THIS UP

[Round Mound]

I am not a Jordan fan at all but i admit he is the best ever. Not because of rings but eye test. That doesn't mean Scottie sucked he was an all star, an all around player and the best defensive sf ever. Jordan did return in 94-95 but see what happened in the play-offs with the underrated Horace Grant and The Magic? The Bulls needed a PF and they got Rodman next year and they 3-peated again. I thik i am the only person who thinks MJ is the GOAT had he won nothing in his career with his team. So MJ is the best, Scottie was a great player, Horce and Rodman where fine players themselves.

[Axe]

I am not a Jordan fan at all but i admit he is the best ever. Not because of rings but eye test. That doesn't mean Scottie sucked he was an all star, an all around player and the best defensive sf ever. Jordan did return in 94-95 but see what happened in the play-offs with the underrated Horace Grant and The Magic? The Bulls needed a PF and they got Rodman next year and they 3-peated again. I thik i am the only person who thinks MJ is the GOAT had he won nothing in his career with his team. So MJ is the best, Scottie was a great player, Horce and Rodman where fine players themselves.
:cheers:

[kawhileonard2]

Chris Bosh was NOT better than Dwight Howard. FOH :lol

That's true.

[kawhileonard2]

Remember when the Bulls won 55 without MJ?

Remember when USA won gold medal in Olympics before Lebron joined while having guys who won league/finals mvp?

[ShawkFactory]

.
The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF without Lebron just like 94' Bulls without MJ


Playoffs

16' WADE'...... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' PIPPEN.... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%


^^™ the difference is that Wade was building the Heat like a real 1st option does, while Pippen drove the Bulls downward and was borderline lottery in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat caliber

Wade has far superior scoring, efficiency, and clutch, while also having better apg and bpg and FMVP.. He would've had 2 FMVP but Lebron choked in 2011 after Wade led the team in scoring for those playoffs







Unlike the 93' Bulls, the 14' Heat weren't 3-peat champs and were the equivalent of a 1st Round Western team (as evidenced by their records loss to Spurs).

So the Heat fell from a 1st Round Western caliber to missing the 15' playoffs by 1/2 game because because Wade/Bosh missed 40..

But in 2016, Wade rebuilt the Heat by nearly carrying them to the ECF with peak Pippen stats (above)..

So Wade grew the Heat like an elite 1st option is supposed to do, while Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months - the 95' Bulls were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned to restore 3-peat caliber

How come you use playoff numbers in some cases but then regular season numbers in others?

Just out of curiosity.

I also know the answer.

[3ba11]

How come you use playoff numbers in some cases but then regular season numbers in others?

Just out of curiosity.

I also know the answer.


References to career averages are always regular season unless otherwise specified..

Again, the 14' Heat fell from a 1st Round Western caliber to missing the 15' playoffs by 1/2 game due to Wade/Bosh injury.

But in 2016, Wade rebuilt the Heat by nearly carrying them to the ECF with peak Pippen stats (above)..

So Wade grew the Heat like an elite 1st option is supposed to do, while Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months - the 95' Bulls were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned to restore 3-peat caliber

[WhiteKyrie]

Super cowardly

[ShawkFactory]

PLAYOFFS

1990 Pippen: 18.7 PER, .149 WS/48, 5.2 BPM, 1.2 VORP

2022 Wiggins: 16.0 PER, .102 WS/48, 0.8 BPM, 0.5 VORP

Yikes. Lot of significant bold there for Pip. Keep in mind he has a full series less to accumulate VORP too.

[3ba11]

I am not a Jordan fan at all but i admit he is the best ever. Not because of rings but eye test. That doesn't mean Scottie sucked he was an all star, an all around player and the best defensive sf ever. Jordan did return in 94-95 but see what happened in the play-offs with the underrated Horace Grant and The Magic? The Bulls needed a PF and they got Rodman next year and they 3-peated again. I thik i am the only person who thinks MJ is the GOAT had he won nothing in his career with his team. So MJ is the best, Scottie was a great player, Horce and Rodman where fine players themselves.


Every team needs a PF that hovers around a double-double - 8/8 on the low side and 15/10 on the high side, aka "bangers" - these guys aren't scoring options... Every team actually had several bangers back then.. That's all Horace was - 11/8 career player...

Horace was replaceable by the majority of starting PF's back then - we can start going through the PF's and you'll see that Horace ranks below half the starting PF's or big men period.. Without MJ, Horace would be like his brother Harvey - a complete unknown - Harvey was actually a scoring option with a game that was ahead of his time.

Regarding Rodman - he wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs, while 2010 Shaq would've started and been the best center the Bulls ever had... So old Rodman was much worse than old Shaq.. Rodman was just a rebounder like Drummond but without the scoring basics... He wasn't playable on other teams and co-led the RPG in the 97' Playoffs with MJ (8 each)

[ShawkFactory]

1992 Regular Season

Horace Grant: 20.7 PER, .237 WS/48, 5.4 BPM, 5.2 VORP

Patrick Ewing: 22.8 PER, .198 WS/48, 4.8 BPM, 5.5 VORP

[SouBeachTalents]

2010 Regular Season

Gasol: 22.9 PER, .220 WS/48, 4.9 BPM, 4.2 VORP

Kobe: 21.9 PER, .160 WS/48, 4.1 BPM, 4.4 VORP