I wish I could have been in the office with Ainge making that demand.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2208220154090112.jpeg


Just to see if he kept a straight face.

[Xiao Yao You]

Time for Jim Dolan to seal his legacy and get this thing done once and for all

[Real Men Wear Green]

He got 5 for Gobert so why not?

[Kblaze8855]

If you can trade two guys who won 3 total games beyond the first round in 5-6 years for 13 picks and prospects and someone’s gonna entertain it you do it I suppose. But other gms have to hesitate just taking the call.

[Xiao Yao You]

He got 5 for Gobert so why not?

and the Jazz likely lose that trade. The Mitchell trade could be franchise changing

[Kblaze8855]

and the Jazz likely lose that trade. The Mitchell trade could be franchise changing

If you have a dozen picks and tank so your own are good as well you’d have to be pretty awful at drafting to not eventually hit on some of them. I suppose some could just be swaps though.

[Real Men Wear Green]

and the Jazz likely lose that trade. They got 5 firsts for a good starter so no they did not.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If you can trade two guys who won 3 total games beyond the first round in 5-6 years for 13 picks and prospects and someone’s gonna entertain it you do it I suppose. But other gms have to hesitate just taking the call.

The Nets and Sixers have his number blocked

[Kblaze8855]

They got 5 firsts for a good starter so no they did not.

Just wait a few months till a 46 win team that already has 2 young all stars and a young franchise player due to become a superstar jumps to 50 something wins having added Rudy. He will be on here swearing they’d have won 28 without him as if it isn’t a natural progression aided by the changes.

[Xiao Yao You]

If you have a dozen picks and tank so your own are good as well you’d have to be pretty awful at drafting to not eventually hit on some of them. I suppose some could just be swaps though.

Ainge hits more than most. Certainly more than anyone the Jazz have ever had drafting for them. Unlikely that one of the Minnesota picks or Kessler or Bolmaro become one of the best players in the game though. Minnesota gets the best player. They win the trade.

[Xiao Yao You]

Just wait a few months till a 46 win team that already has 2 young all stars and a young franchise player due to become a superstar jumps to 50 something wins having added Rudy. He will be on here swearing they’d have won 28 without him as if it isn’t a natural progression aided by the changes.

a 46 win team with one of the best young talents in the game just added one of the best players in the game. They won't be losing a lot. They were a top 10 D without the best defensive player in the game. Vanderbilt and Beverley were a big part of that I'm sure. Jazz were 29th last year in D without Gobert. Any big can get it done!

[Kblaze8855]

Ainge hits more than most. Certainly more than anyone the Jazz have ever had drafting for them. Unlikely that one of the Minnesota picks or Kessler or Bolmaro become one of the best players in the game though. Minnesota gets the best player. They win the trade.

Even if your belief that a modern Hawks Mutombo is one of the best players in the league were true(it isn’t)…it still wouldn’t make the idea that having the short term best player in a trade means you won it. Especially when the presumed best player has accomplished virtually nothing and what you’re “losing” is useless plaques tied to a bunch of first and second round exits that cost a lot of money to be largely irrelevant.

And the guy whose eyes for talent you are relying on obviously valued Rudy’s less than what he traded it for.

Is Ainge stupid in your eyes?

[Kblaze8855]

a 46 win team with one of the best young talents in the game just added one of the best players in the game. They won't be losing a lot. They were a top 10 D without the best defensive player in the game. Vanderbilt and Beverley were a big part of that I'm sure. Jazz were 29th last year in D without Gobert. Any big can get it done!


Get what done? If you want to consider him their leader he’s led talented teams to less success than they had during the Carlos boozer era. What exactly are you bragging about him accomplishing there? They won 3 non first round playoff games in his 9 seasons. You think you can trade dpoys for success?

Marc Gasol has DPOY. He could also shoot. Pass. You know…play the total game. Helps a bit when you realize you can’t win a basketball game 0-0. Someone has to score and modern offense have little use for Rudy beyond setting screens.

Its as big a flaw as the No D guards you steady shit on. Except many of them can score well enough to win a game the team plays bad defense in. You can’t defend so well you win 68-62. The nba will no longer allow it. They changed rules to prevent it. Too many people are good at making “bad” threes. You’ll get beat without the scorers by even more than you get beat without the defenders.

You lose either way…but it’s funny watching you act like it’s more noble to lose being “led” by an offensive cone than a defensive one as if the L counts less.

Hes in a good place. He has 2 guys who might well put up 25 a game with him now and a talented former all star guard who might regain some form. He’s where a guy like him should be. A position to help where he can and not be needed to play the total game.

Like adding Mutombo to the Nelson Mavs. They have firepower enough that he could make the difference. Minny probably considers him third on their franchise player list. KAT just made the all nba team over him(not that you care about all nba when not talking about Rudy being on it). Edwards is probably the face of the franchise going forward. Both are young and exciting but Edwards hasn’t established himself as a playoff joke like KAT and Rudy have been considered at times.

Either way…2 or 3…it’s definitely not his team. It should be good. And he will deserve some credit for it. But Minny is pretty clearly handing the reins to Edwards. KAT and Rudy should be of great use helping him on either end.

[Xiao Yao You]

Get what done? If you want to consider him their leader he’s led talented teams to less success than they had during the Carlos boozer era. What exactly are you bragging about him accomplishing there? They won 3 non first round playoff games in his 9 seasons. You think you can trade dpoys for success?

Marc Gasol has DPOY. He could also shoot. Pass. You know…play the total game. Helps a bit when you realize you can’t win a basketball game 0-0. Someone has to score and modern offense have little use for Rudy beyond setting screens.

Its as big a flaw as the No D guards you steady shit on. Except many of them can score well enough to win a game the team plays bad defense in. You can’t defend so well you win 68-62. The nba will no longer allow it. They changed rules to prevent it. Too many people are good at making “bad” threes. You’ll get beat without the scorers by even more than you get beat without the defenders.

You lose either way…but it’s funny watching you act like it’s more noble to lose being “led” by an offensive cone than a defensive one as if the L counts less.

Hes in a good place. He had 2 guys who might well put up 25 a game with him now and a talented former all star guard who might regain some form. He’s where a guy like him should be. A position to help where he can and not be needed to play the total game.

Like adding Mutombo to the Nelson Mavs. They have firepower enough that he could make the difference.

I remember Boozer getting beat by the Lakers every year and not even being the best 4 on the team. One year they got lucky and GS knocked off the top seed in round 1.

Context matters. Jazz without Gobert have been bad. They were trying to tank while he suddenly made them competitive. Last year they were awful without him as they have been for the past 7 plus years without him. They lost one playoff series where they were favored. They were the top seed but did anyone really think they were the top team that year? They just happened to be the last team to get hit by COVID and their hot start was enough. Losing their 2nd best player and having their 3rd best player force himself on to the court despite being injured was too much to overcome. They pulled off back to back playoff upsets when COTM still made in game changes though. Hard to see that as anything but overachieving. Certainly better than Sloan taking two of the all time greats from 1st to 3rd which he repeated with your vaunted Boozer squad.

The team he is on now is without question the best roster he has been on by far and unlike Mitchell and others they have bought in to whatever their coach was selling them. They literally might have 4 guys that are better than Mitchell!

[Kblaze8855]

Bradley Beal had as many post first round wins in 2017 as Rudy Gobert has in his entire career despite being on teams with 3 all star caliber players. The list of absolute nobodies to do more than Rudy has with worse talent is too long to list. Overachieving….

Overachieving regular season records maybe. And there’s a word for that. Pretender. For nine years with Jazz they have done absolutely nothing worth remembering while you try to sculpt a narrative of the guy you claim is their best player being some kinda difference maker. Yes taking away a tremendous amount of layups in regular season games teams barely prepare for can make a great statistical difference and win a decent number of them.

Doesnt mean you matter. It means you’re the late 90s Hawks and Rudy is Mutombo. Win your 56 games nobody cares about you arent a serious team and whoever your leader is probably should be in someone’s supporting cast. Now he’s firmly entrenched in one and I expect it to work out much like Mutombo on Philly or Smith when he was an ensemble player in Portland.

But even the Hawk fans didn’t try to claim that lost era as some kinda success.

The Jazz ranged from nothing to see to something to see but nothing to care about.

That run was hardly the stuff of legends.

Ive seen you shit on supposedly overrated players who did more and damn sure didn’t have 3 all stars to do it with.

The Jazz built a good to great team talent wise. It didn’t work. Nobody comes out looking like some kinda winner for making it happen. Supposedly turning shit to piss doesn’t make you Jesus. Turn it to something that matters if you want a religion built around you. Otherwise it’s just you and your 1-2 followers. Nobody writes that book.

You out here being John the Baptist for a savior that didn’t get anything done. If Jesus just raised the dead to being in a vegetative coma it would be a medical miracle sure…but that don’t get the tithes flowing.

You’re building a church around a shit savior. Your guy floating on the Dead Sea not walking on water. The difference is subtle but it’s there to anyone who understands the science.

[Xiao Yao You]

Bradley Beal had as many post first round wins in 2017 as Rudy Gobert has in his entire career despite being on teams with 3 all star caliber players. The list of absolute nobodies to do more than Rudy has with worse talent is too long to list. Overachieving….

Overachieving regular season records maybe. And there’s a word for that. Pretender. For nine years with Jazz they have done absolutely nothing worth remembering while you try to sculpt a narrative of the guy you claim is their best player being some kinda difference maker. Yes taking away a tremendous amount of layups in regular season games teams barely prepare for can make a great statistical difference and win a decent number of them.

Doesnt mean you matter. It means you’re the late 90s Hawks and Rudy is Mutombo. Win your 56 games nobody cares about you arent a serious team and whoever your leader is probably should be in someone’s supporting cast. Now he’s firmly entrenched in one and I expect it to work out much like Mutombo on Philly or Smith when he was an ensemble player in Portland.

But even the Hawk fans didn’t try to claim that lost era as some kinda success.

The Jazz ranged from nothing to see to something to see but nothing to care about.

That run was hardly the stuff of legends.

Ive seen you shit on supposedly overrated players who did more and damn sure didn’t have 3 all stars to do it with.

The Jazz built a good to great team talent wise. It didn’t work. Nobody comes out looking like some kinda winner for making it happen. Supposedly turning shit to piss doesn’t make you Jesus. Turn it to something that matters if you want a religion built around you. Otherwise it’s just you and your 1-2 followers. Nobody writes that book.

You out here being John the Baptist for a savior that didn’t get anything done. If Jesus just raised the dead to being in a vegetative coma it would be a medical miracle sure…but that don’t get the tithes flowing.

You’re building a church around a shit savior. Your guy floating on the Dead Sea not walking on water. The difference is subtle but it’s there to anyone who understands the science.

how many all star appearances do these all stars have without Gobert? 0 is the answer in case you didn't know. Will Mitchell be an all star if he's the 2nd best little guard on a lottery team even if he's in NY? Gobert never played with a modern starting 4 other than the corpse that was Boris Diaw for a year. He played with Rubio and Favors spotting up for 3's in the corner. He played with small back courts and horrible perimeter defenders. He played with Burke and Exum as his pg's. He played for a coach that didn't make a playoff adjustment the past 3 playoffs. 3rd most important player in Jazz history unquestionably. Not his fault that the franchise wasted the past decade.

[Kblaze8855]

Conley made the all star game in like his 4th or 5th best season and Mitchell has never played without Gobert. Gobert made his first all star team in his 7th season…when he and Donovan were first time all stars together. Any way you look at it they assembled a very talented lineup and he got nothing worth talking about done with it.

Third most important player in history won 3 second round games in 9 ****ing seasons….

Talking about a wasted decade which in your eyes…he was the centerpiece of…while being totally faultless.


Tracy Mcgrady took this lineup and played one of the goat defenses in the playoffs:



Rookie Drew Gooden
34 year old Darrell Armstrong
Giricek
Pat Garrity
Vaughn
Chris Whitney
Andrew Declerq
Shawn Kemps final 20 minutes of PT
Pat Burke
Steven Hunter
Gerald Sasser





Thats what not having help is.

People have won titles with the Jazz talent level. Too many to name have at least been relevant in the playoffs with far less.

Youve been shining up a shit resume of mediocrity for years and hanging it around a middling stars neck like a gold medal that proves he’s impactful. All it proves is you have unbelievably low standards unless the person being judged is a bad defensive guard. And an awful lot of them got more out of bad lineups than Rudy got out of good ones for the record.

Damn near a decade of either not mattering at all or only appearing to matter when you look at standings before the playoffs start.

Its nothing.

He has done absolutely nothing to be called a winner. And winning a bit(though likely as fools gold once again) as the other other guy in Minnesota will do little to change that.

Hes not one of those guys. Maybe Edwards will be. And he can ride. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a team game and the driver needs someone to keep him awake and on the right path. But really? Any car he drives himself isn’t getting anywhere worth the time it takes to make the trip.

Rudy Gobert is a 9 hour drive to Arkansas. Even if you get there…it’s Arkansas.

[Xiao Yao You]

Conley made the all star game in like his 4th or 5th best season and Mitchell has never played without Gobert. Gobert made his first all star team in his 7th season…when he and Donovan were first time all stars together. Any way you look at it they assembled a very talented lineup and he got nothing worth talking about done with it.

Third most important player in history won 3 second round games in 9 ****ing seasons….

Talking about a wasted decade which in your eyes…he was the centerpiece of…while being totally faultless.


Tracy Mcgrady took this lineup and played one of the goat defenses in the playoffs:



Rookie Drew Gooden
34 year old Darrell Armstrong
Giricek
Pat Garrity
Vaughn
Chris Whitney
Andrew Declerq
Shawn Kemps final 20 minutes of PT
Pat Burke
Steven Hunter
Gerald Sasser





Thats what not having help is.

People have won titles with the Jazz talent level. Too many to name have at least been relevant in the playoffs with far less.

Youve been shining up a shit resume of mediocrity for years and hanging it around a middling stars neck like a gold medal that proves he’s impactful. All it proves is you have unbelievably low standards unless the person being judged is a bad defensive guard. And an awful lot of them got more out of bad lineups than Rudy got out of good ones for the record.

Damn near a decade of either not mattering at all or only appearing to matter when you look at standings before the playoffs start.

Its nothing.

He has done absolutely nothing to be called a winner. And winning a bit(though likely as fools gold once again) as the other other guy in Minnesota will do little to change that.

Hes not one of those guys. Maybe Edwards will be. And he can ride. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a team game and the driver needs someone to keep him awake and on the right path. But really? Any car he drives himself isn’t getting anywhere worth the time it takes to make the trip.

Rudy Gobert is a 9 hour drive to Arkansas. Even if you get there…it’s Arkansas.

Who said he was faultless? I just can't see blaming the only the guy that mattered though. Closest they ever came to building a proper team around him was Hayward's last year. But of course they ruined that with Favors and Rubio in the corner. Poor front office moves, poor coaching, no one wanting to play D etc. The analytics had Conley as one of the best players in the league his all star year. Not sure he ever had a better season actually. With Gobert they had a chance every night. My kind of player. You can have your stats and ESPN highlites.

[Kblaze8855]

Fans of players who win get to play the “Keep your stats and highlights” game. Fans of guys who never even played a game that matters in nearly a decade despite very talented teams?

They um…lose a lot of credibility. Rudy Gobert accomplished about as much as an empty stat, super exciting, no defense guard tends to when given multiple all stars to play with. If that. Plenty of them break through to make deep runs.

A chance every night? What a nothing statement for a nothing ass team that absolutely had the talent to be something. The kind of feel good loser talk pushed by fans of shit franchises that never do anything to raise the standards beyond that Wizards level where a series win followed by a quick crushing gets a season ending dvd celebrating.

Rudy Gobert “led” a bunch of really good teams to absolutely nothing and you hammer that hunk of shit into a participation trophy and talk down on fans of flashy players as if he boringly got something done.

He ain’t Tim Duncan, Bill Walton, or anyone like it. He isn’t John Stockton. He isn’t Jokic either. He isn’t some fundamentally sound great player fans don’t appreciate while he proves them wrong with skill, execution, and precision while not being exciting.

Hes Nuggets to Hawks Mutombo in an era that won’t let you win with defense anymore. And he like Mutombo and others while great on D is fundamentally awful on offense beyond being a beneficiary of todays high screen heavy offenses.

Hes just a defense lovers version of an incomplete game bigtime scorer. He’s just as lacking in fundamentals as the no D scorers you hate as long as shooting, passing, and handling the ball remain fundamentals of the game.

Hes no “Real fans understand” fundamentals guy. He’s a defensive space filler and rebounder who looks like an idiot given the ball to do anything but dunk. Just because some fans with a stick up their ass love to claim rights to fundamentals and act high and mighty to rep a boring defensive player doesn’t make it accurate.

You can shut down the paint and be good at the total game. You can primarily score and have better fundamentals than a giant in the lane who can’t dribble.

The casuals cheering for highlight guys with pretty stats?? You give the guys they cheer for 2 more all star caliber players and good role players besides they would to a man get to and lose in a second round given time and health.

That’s like the basement for such a situation. Joe Johnson could win a round and not really matter given 10 years and good teammates. It doesn’t take anyone special. In fact…it usually takes someone with a fairly low ceiling(by star standards) to not do better.

You watched nothing worth bragging about happen for 9 years and act like it was a feat when it was near the bare minimum of expectations given the assembled talent. He had a shot. He had help. He didn’t do anything with it. They shipped him out for picks in his prime.

That’s that.

[Xiao Yao You]

Fans of players who win get to play the “Keep your stats and highlights” game. Fans of guys who never even played a game that matters in nearly a decade despite very talented teams?

They um…lose a lot of credibility. Rudy Gobert accomplished about as much as an empty stat, super exciting, no defense guard tends to when given multiple all stars to play with. If that. Plenty of them break through to make deep runs.

A chance every night? What a nothing statement for a nothing ass team that absolutely had the talent to be something. The kind of feel good loser talk pushed by fans of shit franchises that never do anything to raise the standards beyond that Wizards level where a series win followed by a quick crushing gets a season ending dvd celebrating.

Rudy Gobert “led” a bunch of really good teams to absolutely nothing and you hammer that hunk of shit into a participation trophy and talk down on fans of flashy players as if he boringly got something done.

He ain’t Tim Duncan, Bill Walton, or anyone like it. He isn’t John Stockton. He isn’t Jokic either. He isn’t some fundamentally sound great player fans don’t appreciate while he proves them wrong with skill, execution, and precision while not being exciting.

Hes Nuggets to Hawks Mutombo in an era that won’t let you win with defense anymore. And he like Mutombo and others while great on D is fundamentally awful on offense beyond being a beneficiary of todays high screen heavy offenses.

Hes just a defense lovers version of an incomplete game bigtime scorer. He’s just as lacking in fundamentals as the no D scorers you hate as long as shooting, passing, and handling the ball remain fundamentals of the game.

Hes no “Real fans understand” fundamentals guy. He’s a defensive space filler and rebounder who looks like an idiot given the ball to do anything but dunk. Just because some fans with a stick up their ass love to claim rights to fundamentals and act high and mighty to rep a boring defensive player doesn’t make it accurate.

You can shut down the paint and be good at the total game. You can primarily score and have better fundamentals than a giant in the lane who can’t dribble.

The casuals cheering for highlight guys with pretty stats?? You give the guys they cheer for 2 more all star caliber players and good role players besides they would to a man get to and lose in a second round given time and health.

That’s like the basement for such a situation. Joe Johnson could win a round and not really matter given 10 years and good teammates. It doesn’t take anyone special. In fact…it usually takes someone with a fairly low ceiling(by star standards) to not do better.

You watched nothing worth bragging about happen for 9 years and act like it was a feat when it was near the bare minimum of expectations given the assembled talent. He had a shot. He had help. He didn’t do anything with it. They shipped him out for picks in his prime.

That’s that.

who was all this talent you keep talking about? They were bad when Gobert didn't play. They were good because of him. I never said he was Walton, Duncan and specifically Stockton or Malone but he is a HOFer despite being the worst player in history according to ISH. You trolls like to put a lot of words in my mouth. He's been one of the best players in the league. How many guys make lottery teams good? He's done it for the past 7 plus years. Hayward didn't. Mitchell hasn't. Towns hasn't. Cousins didn't. Could go on and on.

[post]

the battle of the anti gobert and pro gobert captains

[Kblaze8855]

who was all this talent you keep talking about? They were bad when Gobert didn't play. They were good because of him. I never said he was Walton, Duncan and specifically Stockton or Malone but he is a HOFer despite being the worst player in history according to ISH. You trolls like to put a lot of words in my mouth. He's been one of the best players in the league. How many guys make lottery teams good? He's done it for the past 7 plus years. Hayward didn't. Mitchell hasn't. Towns hasn't. Cousins didn't. Could go on and on.


“We” trolls put words in your mouth while you tell me I think he’s the worst player in the league when I keep saying he’s Mutombo. You know…the 4 time DPOY who is in the hall of fame.

You aren’t very good at this.

You have absolutely nothing to say but repeating largely foolish opinions as if they are facts that mean anything. Calling him a vague term like “One of the best” means absolutely nothing. You can call the 26th best player one of the best if you want. It’s not an actual ranking. It’s a ranking the speaker decides the terms of so anyone could qualify. Making a lottery team good is a flat out fabrication grounded in a hypothetical. Record in stretches or a decade ago doesn’t mean he personally does anything. Klay Thompson could be said to make a non playoff team into a champion looking at it that way. Missed two years…one Steph played…no playoffs. Returns? Champion. But that isn’t how it actually works even with a factual example with hundreds of games as sample size much less your hypothetical credit goes where you decide bullshit.

Credit for virtually nothing that is. So dedicated to handing out credit for accomplishing nothing with players as good as it better than plenty of guys have legit contended with.

Years of repeating that he deserves credit for leading a talented team to irrelevance and calling out people who don’t seem blown away that he and his version of the 90s Hawks that didn’t matter don’t get any more credit or praise than Mutombo did for his several good to great records 4 DPOY and losing in the second round at very best.

He isn’t elite and nobody like him ever has been nor will be. He can take away half the layup or three attack the nba uses now in the regular season when nobody cares. Makes for good advanced numbers. In the league they created now? In the playoffs the winner will come down to who makes threes more often than not so his impact isn’t what it would have been 20 years ago.

And he has zero to fall back on. Can’t score on his own even in ugly fashion like Zo or Dwight. He’s on the Ben Wallace and Mutombo side. And he lacks Bens quickness. And unlike both of them he’s in an era designed to neutralize him.

It isn’t entirely his fault but he’s just not a top tier player or especially close to it. He wouldn’t be that even 20-30 years ago when players would actually drive at him like an idiot all game. I’m not saying he’s garbage. I’ve been comparing him to a hall of famer for years and you don’t accept that as praise because it’s tied to the truth about what his player type can do in a league with 400 shooters and comes with a decade of evidence.

I don’t care that much about Rudy one way or the other I just watch basketball and report what I see. The nut job single player fans who latch onto their guy and need him to be credited so much they shit on his teammates incessantly have always been terrible posters though. They’re unbearable when their guy is Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Giannis, Steph or whoever. When it’s a Rudy ****ing Gobert type who doesn’t even have any real success like those players to even be clamoring to get the credit for?

Thats the worst of it. The worst manifestation of this obsessed internet fanboy hates on his own team shit. It’s bad enough when it’s a fight over who gets credit for titles. You trying to keep a death grip on who gets credit for being the ****ing 1998 Atlanta Hawks. Shit is just abnormally lame even by ISH standards.

And to make it even worse you twist it into thinking people who point out your ridiculous behavior are obsessed with you personally as if normal society shouldn’t be expected to notice a clown doing jumping jacks in the middle of the street. Just an all around shit show of a poster when on your subject of obsession. But weirdly? Pretty much normal on other subjects. You can at least keep it compartmental and not let your crazy leak into other subjects. For that much I’m thankful.

Its the only reason I’m able to only respond to you about it once a month or so. You don’t press the issue like a 3ball or one of the Lebron loving jackasses. Just as irrational but more contained. So that’s…something.

[PeroAntic]

Nothing better to start your day than yet another massive shit by kblaze on xiao's head.

[Xiao Yao You]

“We” trolls put words in your mouth while you tell me I think he’s the worst player in the league when I keep saying he’s Mutombo. You know…the 4 time DPOY who is in the hall of fame.

You aren’t very good at this.

You have absolutely nothing to say but repeating largely foolish opinions as if they are facts that mean anything. Calling him a vague term like “One of the best” means absolutely nothing. You can call the 26th best player one of the best if you want. It’s not an actual ranking. It’s a ranking the speaker decides the terms of so anyone could qualify. Making a lottery team good is a flat out fabrication grounded in a hypothetical. Record in stretches or a decade ago doesn’t mean he personally does anything. Klay Thompson could be said to make a non playoff team into a champion looking at it that way. Missed two years…one Steph played…no playoffs. Returns? Champion. But that isn’t how it actually works even with a factual example with hundreds of games as sample size much less your hypothetical credit goes where you decide bullshit.

Credit for virtually nothing that is. So dedicated to handing out credit for accomplishing nothing with players as good as it better than plenty of guys have legit contended with.

Years of repeating that he deserves credit for leading a talented team to irrelevance and calling out people who don’t seem blown away that he and his version of the 90s Hawks that didn’t matter don’t get any more credit or praise than Mutombo did for his several good to great records 4 DPOY and losing in the second round at very best.

He isn’t elite and nobody like him ever has been nor will be. He can take away half the layup or three attack the nba uses now in the regular season when nobody cares. Makes for good advanced numbers. In the league they created now? In the playoffs the winner will come down to who makes threes more often than not so his impact isn’t what it would have been 20 years ago.

And he has zero to fall back on. Can’t score on his own even in ugly fashion like Zo or Dwight. He’s on the Ben Wallace and Mutombo side. And he lacks Bens quickness. And unlike both of them he’s in an era designed to neutralize him.

It isn’t entirely his fault but he’s just not a top tier player or especially close to it. He wouldn’t be that even 20-30 years ago when players would actually drive at him like an idiot all game. I’m not saying he’s garbage. I’ve been comparing him to a hall of famer for years and you don’t accept that as praise because it’s tied to the truth about what his player type can do in a league with 400 shooters and comes with a decade of evidence.

I don’t care that much about Rudy one way or the other I just watch basketball and report what I see. The nut job single player fans who latch onto their guy and need him to be credited so much they shit on his teammates incessantly have always been terrible posters though. They’re unbearable when their guy is Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Giannis, Steph or whoever. When it’s a Rudy ****ing Gobert type who doesn’t even have any real success like those players to even be clamoring to get the credit for?

Thats the worst of it. The worst manifestation of this obsessed internet fanboy hates on his own team shit. It’s bad enough when it’s a fight over who gets credit for titles. You trying to keep a death grip on who gets credit for being the ****ing 1998 Atlanta Hawks. Shit is just abnormally lame even by ISH standards.

And to make it even worse you twist it into thinking people who point out your ridiculous behavior are obsessed with you personally as if normal society shouldn’t be expected to notice a clown doing jumping jacks in the middle of the street. Just an all around shit show of a poster when on your subject of obsession. But weirdly? Pretty much normal on other subjects. You can at least keep it compartmental and not let your crazy leak into other subjects. For that much I’m thankful.

Its the only reason I’m able to only respond to you about it once a month or so. You don’t press the issue like a 3ball or one of the Lebron loving jackasses. Just as irrational but more contained. So that’s…something.

oce a month as you write essay after essay about a guy that means nothing to you either way! :roll:

[warriorfan]

Bradley Beal had as many post first round wins in 2017 as Rudy Gobert has in his entire career despite being on teams with 3 all star caliber players. The list of absolute nobodies to do more than Rudy has with worse talent is too long to list. Overachieving….

Overachieving regular season records maybe. And there’s a word for that. Pretender. For nine years with Jazz they have done absolutely nothing worth remembering while you try to sculpt a narrative of the guy you claim is their best player being some kinda difference maker. Yes taking away a tremendous amount of layups in regular season games teams barely prepare for can make a great statistical difference and win a decent number of them.

Doesnt mean you matter. It means you’re the late 90s Hawks and Rudy is Mutombo. Win your 56 games nobody cares about you arent a serious team and whoever your leader is probably should be in someone’s supporting cast. Now he’s firmly entrenched in one and I expect it to work out much like Mutombo on Philly or Smith when he was an ensemble player in Portland.

But even the Hawk fans didn’t try to claim that lost era as some kinda success.

The Jazz ranged from nothing to see to something to see but nothing to care about.

That run was hardly the stuff of legends.

Ive seen you shit on supposedly overrated players who did more and damn sure didn’t have 3 all stars to do it with.

The Jazz built a good to great team talent wise. It didn’t work. Nobody comes out looking like some kinda winner for making it happen. Supposedly turning shit to piss doesn’t make you Jesus. Turn it to something that matters if you want a religion built around you. Otherwise it’s just you and your 1-2 followers. Nobody writes that book.

You out here being John the Baptist for a savior that didn’t get anything done. If Jesus just raised the dead to being in a vegetative coma it would be a medical miracle sure…but that don’t get the tithes flowing.

You’re building a church around a shit savior. Your guy floating on the Dead Sea not walking on water. The difference is subtle but it’s there to anyone who understands the science.

Bradley Beal had John Wall while beating up on pretty weak east coast teams though. Bulls before Jimmy Butler got any good. Toronto when Kyle Lowry was so banged up he couldn’t do anything. A washed up Hawks team where Wall went berserk and smoked them badly. Gobert obviously has had his issues in the playoffs but this is just a weird comparison.

[Xiao Yao You]

Bradley Beal had John Wall while beating up on pretty weak east coast teams though. Bulls before Jimmy Butler got any good. Toronto when Kyle Lowry was so banged up he couldn’t do anything. A washed up Hawks team where Wall went berserk and smoked them badly. Gobert obviously has had his issues in the playoffs but this is just a weird comparison.

perfect comparison if you're comparing Beal with Mitchell since Wall was their best player

[Kblaze8855]

oce a month as you write essay after essay about a guy that means nothing to you either way! :roll:

I wrote a 65 thousand word hypothetical question on here once that had a one word answer.

I write things. My brand of crazy is varied. Your crazy is pinpoint specific and hard to ignore. I’m “Don’t get him started on anything” crazy. You’re kinda like a guy who won’t stop telling people how great peach cobbler is. Which isnt to say peach cobbler isn’t good. It isn’t elite. And it doesn’t deserve elite dessert status. It’s good. But a guy who wants to talk about it being amazing at every turn on a food forum would…I suspect…get pushback after pushing that narrative for years of people not being all that impressed with it.

One of those “Won’t change his mind won’t change the subject” fanatic things.

I could go overboard on any subject at any time. I’ll talk to you once a month about Rudy. I’ll talk to 3 ball every 3-4 months maybe. I’ll talk about anything all day if it grabs me at the moment. Now I kinda wanna make a top 50 sweets list to see how far down Id have to go before peach cobbler to see if it’s an apt comparison to Rudy.

Rudy might be better than peach cobbler relative to all desserts. I’ll give it some thought.

[Kblaze8855]

Bradley Beal had John Wall while beating up on pretty weak east coast teams though. Bulls before Jimmy Butler got any good. Toronto when Kyle Lowry was so banged up he couldn’t do anything. A washed up Hawks team where Wall went berserk and smoked them badly. Gobert obviously has had his issues in the playoffs but this is just a weird comparison.


It’s not a player comparison at all. That could’ve been any of like 200 players. The list of largely irrelevant players who can say they at least had a few 50 wins seasons and won two or three games past the first round in a decade is pretty expansive. Great players win more than that on teams worse than that and go down as losers all the time.

[warriorfan]

It’s not a player comparison at all. That could’ve been any of like 200 players. The list of largely irrelevant players who can say they at least had a few 50 wins seasons and won two or three games past the first round in a decade is pretty expansive. Great players win more than that on teams worse than that and go down as losers all the time.

I’m just saying it wasn’t the most fair comparison. Was a little hyperbolical.

[Kblaze8855]

Eh. Beal or Wall in the playoffs varies quite a bit depending on the series. The impression I’ve been given is that most fans aren’t too enamored with either.

And Donovan won a playoff series doing 26 a game on 61% ts and followed it up with the 35/5/5 on good shooting vs the clippers which was the season after he almost had 3 50 point games in a single series so I’m not sure who is even wall or Beal in that comparison to he and Rudy.

Kinda feels like the Jazz chose him in the conflict though they well may end up sending both out for picks.

[Overdrive]

who was all this talent you keep talking about? They were bad when Gobert didn't play. They were good because of him. I never said he was Walton, Duncan and specifically Stockton or Malone but he is a HOFer despite being the worst player in history according to ISH. You trolls like to put a lot of words in my mouth. He's been one of the best players in the league. How many guys make lottery teams good? He's done it for the past 7 plus years. Hayward didn't. Mitchell hasn't. Towns hasn't. Cousins didn't. Could go on and on.

What does mean one of the best to you? Top 30? That's absolutely okay, but you here acting he's a top 5 guy in the league while he isn't.

Gobert is an oversized Shane Battier, Tony Allen type. Someone you put on your team and whole bring you success when your team is already build to score, but can't keep the other teams scoring down. He will never bring you wins on a offensively incapable team.

You need the Dirks of this world for such teams. You can't put Gobert on the 2009-10 Nets and the will start to win games. You put peak Tracy, Dirk, Shaq or whatever offensive juggernaut on them and they'll atleast fight for the playoffs.

The impact of defense only guys only goes so far.

Can Gobert be the best player on a team? Of course, but even if you think he was the best player on the Jazz that only made them go so far and the best player spot was highly debated between him and Mitchell. Now image the 2nd best player being even worse.

[Xiao Yao You]

What does mean one of the best to you? Top 30? That's absolutely okay, but you here acting he's a top 5 guy in the league while he isn't.

Gobert is an oversized Shane Battier, Tony Allen type. Someone you put on your team and whole bring you success when your team is already build to score, but can't keep the other teams scoring down. He will never bring you wins on a offensively incapable team.

You need the Dirks of this world for such teams. You can't put Gobert on the 2009-10 Nets and the will start to win games. You put peak Tracy, Dirk, Shaq or whatever offensive juggernaut on them and they'll atleast fight for the playoffs.

The impact of defense only guys only goes so far.

Can Gobert be the best player on a team? Of course, but even if you think he was the best player on the Jazz that only made them go so far and the best player spot was highly debated between him and Mitchell. Now image the 2nd best player being even worse.

when did I say top 5? How many guys carry a franchise? Certainly not 30 that have done it for the past 7 plus years. Certainly not 30 guys that are getting 5 firsts with 3 being unprotected. The Jazz had the 6th best record in basketball with Exum and Burke as their pgs. Except for the last year of Hayward and post Ricky has the Jazz offense been good and that is because they gave up all perimeter D to get better on offense. Never had the right balance except for a brief glimpse in Hayward's last year. He stays who knows what they do. They keep Millsap and Demarre. Draft McCollum instead of Burke and it's a whole different era. There's no debate on who's better. Mitchell is an inefficient gunner who has no desire to play D or pass the ball. Gobert gives you a chance every night by doing all the things no one else wants to do.

[warriorfan]

Eh. Beal or Wall in the playoffs varies quite a bit depending on the series. The impression I’ve been given is that most fans aren’t too enamored with either.

And Donovan won a playoff series doing 26 a game on 61% ts and followed it up with the 35/5/5 on good shooting vs the clippers which was the season after he almost had 3 50 point games in a single series so I’m not sure who is even wall or Beal in that comparison to he and Rudy.

Kinda feels like the Jazz chose him in the conflict though they well may end up sending both out for picks.

That’s all pretty fair. Remember though that Wall put up 30/10 on great efficiency vs the Hawks. He absolutely destroyed them. It’s too bad he fell off so hard.

[Xiao Yao You]

That’s all pretty fair. Remember though that Wall put up 30/10 on great efficiency vs the Hawks. He absolutely destroyed them. It’s too bad he fell off so hard.

we're not really sure how far he's fallin' off. Put up 20 for the Rockets before sitting out another year

[Kblaze8855]

I like John Wall but it feels like he’s so linked to his contract that you can’t have a discussion about his actual playing ability. Some guys contracts make people feel they are overrated to the point their playing is secondary. It becomes a “At that number? Bad player.” thing which Rudy for one example gets. Rudy. Dame. A few people.

Shaq stays on some “200 million for this?” shit.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2208230823010115.jpeg

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2208230832540118.jpeg

[Overdrive]

when did I say top 5? How many guys carry a franchise? Certainly not 30 that have done it for the past 7 plus years. Certainly not 30 guys that are getting 5 firsts with 3 being unprotected. The Jazz had the 6th best record in basketball with Exum and Burke as their pgs. Except for the last year of Hayward and post Ricky has the Jazz offense been good and that is because they gave up all perimeter D to get better on offense. Never had the right balance except for a brief glimpse in Hayward's last year. He stays who knows what they do. They keep Millsap and Demarre. Draft McCollum instead of Burke and it's a whole different era. There's no debate on who's better. Mitchell is an inefficient gunner who has no desire to play D or pass the ball. Gobert gives you a chance every night by doing all the things no one else wants to do.

You act like he's top 5. You even once said he's better than a twotime MVP.

Where did he carry the franchise to? An early rebuild when both "starplayers" are still in their prime? As I said it's undecided who's been the better player. Even the trade offers reflect that. So Rudy with a player valued as much as him around the league get you nowhere.

Which is also in line with the trade. How many teams give up the player that supposedly carries their franchise for picks?