Wizards jordon was worse than nearly any all-time great who played until his late 30s

[TheGoatest]

What all-time greats who played at age 37+ is Wizards jordon NOT worse than?

LeBron
Kareem
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan

are/were all clearly better.

[theman93]

Wizards jordon was so much worse than 37 year old Lebron that he led the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast.

Also, MJ was atleast an all-star at age 39. Duncan and Malone were not.

[Full Court]

Wizards jordon was so much worse than 37 year old Lebron that he led the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast.

Also, MJ was atleast an all-star at age 39. Duncan and Malone were not.

:lol

GoatTits gets toe-tagged and bodybagged yet again.

[Xiao Yao You]

how many of those other all timers retired twice, played minor league baseball and did double duty as an executive?

[Axe]

how many of those other all timers retired twice, played minor league baseball and did double duty as an executive?
All that while going to the casino before games too. :roll:

[Johnny32]

how many of those other all timers retired twice, played minor league baseball and did double duty as an executive?

What's your point? That jordone had younger and fresher legs than all the players mentioned but was still much worse?

[Xiao Yao You]

What's your point? That jordone had younger and fresher legs than all the players mentioned but was still much worse?

he rested his legs, gained weight, lost his edge...

[Xiao Yao You]

All that while going to the casino before games too. :roll:

But at least he out scored Bill Wennington eh?

[Axe]

But at least he out scored Bill Wennington eh?
He outscored many grocery baggers, plumbers, car mechanics and janitors during his era.

[Xiao Yao You]

He outscored many grocery baggers, plumbers, car mechanics and janitors during his era.

only mechanic I know of was Eaton and even your favorite stiff Gobert out scored that bum

[Axe]

only mechanic I know of was Eaton and even your favorite stiff Gobert out scored that bum
If that's accurate, then that only speaks of the joke competition the league had seen three decades ago.

[eliteballer]

He wasn’t juiced up like LeRoid.

[theman93]

how many of those other all timers retired twice, played minor league baseball and did double duty as an executive?
How many of those other all timers spent 3 years not taking care of their body and poisoning it with alcohol and cigars?

[theman93]

:lol

GoatTits gets toe-tagged and bodybagged yet again.
It’s too easy

[bison]

if we rank players only by the seasons they played at the age of 37+, then sure lebronze is neck and neck with jordan at #2 (with kareem at #1)

meanwhile if we rank players by the seasons they played between ages 18-37, than MJ is GOAT and LeGroid barely cracks top 10. So I'm not sure what OP is trying to prove comparing a small slice of these ATG's careers. Seems kinda desperate and still makes Roid look bad

[SATAN]

How many of those other all timers spent 3 years not taking care of their body and poisoning it with alcohol and cigars?

Reduced to excuses like this. Aw poor Mikey. :oldlol:

[theman93]

Reduced to excuses like this. Aw poor Mikey. :oldlol:

How did 38 year old Wizards Jordan, who was allegedly worse than 37 year old Lebron, lead the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast?

[Axe]

How did 38 year old Wizards Jordan, who was allegedly worse than 37 year old Lebron, lead the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast?
But coach, wasn't the eastern conference at its worst during the early 2000s? :oldlol:

[SATAN]

How did 38 year old Wizards Jordan, who was allegedly worse than 37 year old Lebron, lead the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast?

Put 2022 Westbrook on the team.

[SATAN]

But coach, wasn't the eastern conference at its worst during the early 2000s? :oldlol:

Shhh, we only downplay the EC when LeBron wins. :lol

[theman93]

Shhh, we only downplay the EC when LeBron wins. :lol


But coach, wasn't the eastern conference at its worst during the early 2000s? :oldlol:

The 2022 WCF teams averaged a whole whopping 1.4 more wins per team than the 2002 ECF teams. Did the 2022 West suck too?

[RRR3]

How did 38 year old Wizards Jordan, who was allegedly worse than 37 year old Lebron, lead the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast?
Probably because his supporting cast wasn’t worse when Davis was out which he was for most of the year.

[theman93]

Put 2022 Westbrook on the team.

2022 Westbrook > 2002 Chris Whitney

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[theman93]

Probably because his supporting cast wasn’t worse when Davis was out which he was for most of the year.

Yes it was. Plus Lebron is supposed to be way better than MJ at that stage.

Also, which player did MJ have for half the season that was on AD's level?

[SATAN]

2022 Westbrook > 2002 Chris Whitney

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you mean 2001 Chris Whitney? :facepalm

You previously mentioned Wizards won more games and then it shifted to the season prior all of a sudden.

[theman93]

Do you mean 2001 Chris Whitney? :facepalm

No. I mean 2002 Chris Whitney. Certified scrub.

[theman93]

You previously mentioned Wizards won more games and then it shifted to the season prior all of a sudden.

No it didn't. Learn to read and not project.

[SATAN]

Coach moving the goal posts as usual. :facepalm

[theman93]

Coach moving the goal posts as usual. :facepalm

Nope, your reading comprehension is just failing you. Go back and read again.

You still have yet to explain how 38 year old Wizards Jordan, who was allegedly worse than 37 year old Lebron, led the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast.

Also feel free to answer which player MJ had on his 02 Wizards for half the season that was on the level of AD.

Or you can run and hide like you always do. :roll:

[SATAN]

You mixed up 2002-03 and 2001-02.

[theman93]

You mixed up 2002-03 and 2001-02.

No I didn't. This is the season I'm referring to: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2002.html

Try again.

[SATAN]

This is typical Jordan stan goal post moving at it's finest.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What?

At that age...there are a handful of 'all-time greats' Jordan outplayed.

Kobe and Shaq are two that instantly come to mind.

[theman93]

This is typical Jordan stan goal post moving at it's finest.

This is typical SATAN lacking reading comprehension and being clueless about early 00's ball.

[SATAN]

19% from 3. :biggums::biggums::biggums:

[RRR3]

Yes it was. Plus Lebron is supposed to be way better than MJ at that stage.

Also, which player did MJ have for half the season that was on AD's level?
Name a good teammate LeBron had besides AD

[theman93]

19% from 3. :biggums::biggums::biggums:

And somehow still led his Wizards to a better record than Lebron who was "much better" :biggums::biggums:

[theman93]

Name a good teammate LeBron had besides AD

Name a good teammate Jordan had besides Hamilton.

[SATAN]

Name a good teammate LeBron had besides AD

AD played like shit all season anyway. :biggums:

[theman93]

AD played like shit all season anyway. :biggums:

If AD played like shit then how bad was Richard Hamilton?

:roll::roll::roll:

[theman93]

RRR3/Satan deflecting when he's unable to answer the questions. Classic.

[SATAN]

And somehow still led his Wizards to a better record than Lebron who was "much better" :biggums::biggums:

Needed another OG Dream Team member to win 37 games. :biggums:

[SATAN]

If AD played like shit then how bad was Richard Hamilton?

:roll::roll::roll:

Played fine. At least he wasn't out there looking like he would have rather been at home drinking beer and playing XBox. Pretty sure AD was hungover most games.

[theman93]

Needed another OG Dream Team member to win 37 games. :biggums:

Lebron needed 3 other top 75 players win win 33 games. :biggums:

[theman93]

Played fine. At least he wasn't out there looking like he would have rather been at home drinking beer and playing XBox. Pretty sure AD was hungover most games.

Dang AD was out here averaging 23/10/3/1/2 on 57.8% TS with his mind on drinking beer and playing Xbox when Hamilton was out there giving it his all and only putting up 20/3/3/1/0 on 51.5% TS.


Lmaooooo excuses, excuses, excuses :roll:

[Axe]

Shhh, we only downplay the EC when LeBron wins. :lol
https://y.yarn.co/935651c5-6986-478f-8c91-b863d6cf693a_text.gif

[Axe]

The 2022 WCF teams averaged a whole whopping 1.4 more wins per team than the 2002 ECF teams. Did the 2022 West suck too?
But why did you just move the goalposts, coach? Lmao.

[theman93]

https://y.yarn.co/935651c5-6986-478f-8c91-b863d6cf693a_text.gif

Feel free to answer the question, or run away like you typically do :lol

The 2022 WCF teams averaged a whole whopping 1.4 more wins per team than the 2002 ECF teams. Did the 2022 West suck too?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This board has fallen off a ****ing cliff :oldlol:

And for ISH standards that's saying something.

[theman93]

But why did you just move the goalposts, coach? Lmao.

I didn't move the goalposts. Like SATAN/RRR3, you too lack reading comprehension.

[SATAN]

30/8/6 52% from the field .619% TS >>> 22/5/5 41% from the field .468% TS :applause:

[theman93]

30/8/6 52% from the field .619% TS >>> 22/5/5 41% from the field .468% TS :applause:

Yet somehow, this 37 year old Lebron who is significantly better than 38 year old MJ, couldn't lead his team to as many wins as Jordan led his 2002 Wizards to with a better supporting cast while also starting more games. :applause:

[SATAN]

LeBron played 4 less games than Mike and the Lakers won 4 less games than the 2002 Wizards so I'm not sure what point you're really making here. The Lakers were not a good team although they probably would have cracked 40+ games in 2002.

[Axe]

Yet somehow, this 37 year old Lebron who is significantly better than 38 year old MJ, couldn't lead his team to as many wins as Jordan led his 2002 Wizards to with a better supporting cast while also starting more games. :applause:
Idk coach but this does sound like you're setting up a higher standard for him than you actually do for your hero.

[Round Mound]

Not really. Jordan aged pretty well. To play SG which involves being in the perimeter requires alot of energy. He just wasn't as fast, quick or agil but probably even stronger than before. MJ's game was based on both skill and athleticism. Lets also remember he did not play pro basketball for 3 years prior to his return. That's alot and that can make you rusty when trying to play with the level you once had.

[theman93]

LeBron played 4 less games than Mike and the Lakers won 4 less games than the 2002 Wizards so I'm not sure what point you're really making here. The Lakers were not a good team although they probably would have cracked 40+ games in 2002.

The final 7 games Jordan played in he didn't even start and averaged 20 minutes per game, so if you want to act like he was a significant contributor go ahead and hand over your bball card now. :lol

You've already admitted you didn't start really even watching bball until 2011 so for you to even make that assumption is hilarious. Tell me, how much better was the 2022 WCF teams who averaged a whopping 1.4 more wins per game than the 2002 ECF teams? :roll:

[theman93]

Idk coach but this does sound like you're setting up a higher standard for him than you actually do for your hero.

Axe buddy, are you really telling me reaching the play-in tournament is a high standard? He didn't even need 37 wins to make it in. Lol.

[Axe]

Axe buddy, are you really telling me reaching the play-in tournament is a high standard?
Not necessarily coach. But didn't the bulls have a losing record the years mj went 1-9 in his first three trips to the playoffs prior to scottie pippen's arrival?

[kentatm]

What's your point? That jordone had younger and fresher legs than all the players mentioned but was still much worse?

It’s been a long time since I’ve thought about his Wiz days but I’m pretty sure he was playing through a bunch of injuries in at least one of those years.

Also, medical treatment for athletes is dramatically better now than it was 20 years ago. There are quite a few injuries that were career enders back then that guys can now recover from fairly easily w/modern medicine.

[theman93]

Not necessarily coach. But didn't the bulls have a losing record the years mj went 1-9 in his first three trips to the playoffs prior to scottie pippen's arrival?

He sure did. If you want to go off-topic from late career comparisons that's fine. We can discuss Lebron getting swept in 2007 or 2018. Or we can discuss him getting gentlemen swept in 2014 or 2017. Or we can discuss his 2011 debacle. Or we can discuss him losing in the 2009 ECF with HCA and his opponent missing one of their all-stars. Or we can discuss him failing to make the playoffs in 2019 after activating playoff mode. Or we can even stay on topic if you want and continue discussing him failing to make the play-in in 2022. Which would you prefer?

[SATAN]

The final 7 games Jordan played in he didn't even start and averaged 20 minutes per game, so if you want to act like he was a significant contributor go ahead and hand over your bball card now. :lol

You've already admitted you didn't start really even watching bball until 2011 so for you to even make that assumption is hilarious. Tell me, how much better was the 2022 WCF teams who averaged a whopping 1.4 more wins per game than the 2002 ECF teams? :roll:

I have a dentist appointment. Will do with your moving of the goal posts later. :lol

[Axe]

He sure did. If you want to go off-topic from late career comparisons that's fine. We can discuss Lebron getting swept in 2007 or 2018. Or we can discuss him getting gentlemen swept in 2014 or 2017. Or we can discuss his 2011 debacle. Or we can discuss him losing in the 2009 ECF with HCA and his opponent missing one of their all-stars. Or we can discuss him failing to make the playoffs in 2019 after activating playoff mode. Or we can even stay on topic if you want and continue discussing him failing to make the play-in in 2022. Which would you prefer?
But you do realize the topic is about jordan and not lekong himself, right coach? :oldlol:

[kawhileonard2]

Wizards jordon was so much worse than 37 year old Lebron that he led the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast.

Also, MJ was atleast an all-star at age 39. Duncan and Malone were not.

This and hadn't played in 3.5 years either.

[Xiao Yao You]

If that's accurate, then that only speaks of the joke competition the league had seen three decades ago.

Eaton was a joke not most of the league

[RRR3]

Name a good teammate Jordan had besides Hamilton.
Hamilton played 23 more games than Davis :lol. And Jordan played more games than LeBron as well.

[theman93]

I have a dentist appointment. Will do with your moving of the goal posts later. :lol

I haven't moved any goal posts. This is just your excuse when you're trying to deflect. :lol

MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.

[Axe]

Eaton was a joke not most of the league
Don't worry, your hero is already ahead of him.

[Xiao Yao You]

Dang AD was out here averaging 23/10/3/1/2 on 57.8% TS with his mind on drinking beer and playing Xbox when Hamilton was out there giving it his all and only putting up 20/3/3/1/0 on 51.5% TS.


Lmaooooo excuses, excuses, excuses :roll:

pretty weak numbers for someone with Davis' talent

[Spurs m8]

Wizards jordon was so much worse than 37 year old Lebron that he led the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast.

Also, MJ was atleast an all-star at age 39. Duncan and Malone were not.

Ethered him first post

:roll::roll:

MJ would never play to hurt the team with selfish stat padding and no D

[theman93]

Hamilton played 23 more games than Davis :lol. And Jordan played more games than LeBron as well.

And after Hamilton, Lebron's supporting cast was significantly better. Hell, I could make the argument Westbrook was better than or equal to Hamilton that year. Not to mention that Lebron himself is supposed to be significantly better than Jordan. Yet he only won 34 games to MJ's 37? :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Not really. Jordan aged pretty well. To play SG which involves being in the perimeter requires alot of energy. He just wasn't as fast, quick or agil but probably even stronger than before. MJ's game was based on both skill and athleticism. Lets also remember he did not play pro basketball for 3 years prior to his return. That's alot and that can make you rusty when trying to play with the level you once had.

believe he was playing the 3 when he came back. Was still one of the best players in the game. His body was breaking down like most old guys including Lebron

[Xiao Yao You]

Axe buddy, are you really telling me reaching the play-in tournament is a high standard? He didn't even need 37 wins to make it in. Lol.

out scoring Gobert is a high standard for Axe

[kawhileonard2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

[Xiao Yao You]

He sure did. If you want to go off-topic from late career comparisons that's fine. We can discuss Lebron getting swept in 2007 or 2018. Or we can discuss him getting gentlemen swept in 2014 or 2017. Or we can discuss his 2011 debacle. Or we can discuss him losing in the 2009 ECF with HCA and his opponent missing one of their all-stars. Or we can discuss him failing to make the playoffs in 2019 after activating playoff mode. Or we can even stay on topic if you want and continue discussing him failing to make the play-in in 2022. Which would you prefer?

how bout we discuss not 1, not 2... :roll:

[Axe]

out scoring Gobert is a high standard for Axe
Well, that would make sense if you still consider your hero to have good offensive impact or something like that.

[RRR3]

And after Hamilton, Lebron's supporting cast was significantly better. Not to mention that Lebron himself is supposed to be significantly better than Jordan. Yet he only won 34 games to MJ's 37? :lol
HOW? Who on that team wasn't dogshit? Malik Monk I guess? He had an equivalent season to what Chris Whitney did. Everyone else was a pretty clear net negative besides maybe Austin Reaves and Stanley Johnson who are complete scrubs on offense and just defensive hustle players every team has.

[kawhileonard2]

And after Hamilton, Lebron's supporting cast was significantly better. Hell, I could make the argument Westbrook was better than or equal to Hamilton that year. Not to mention that Lebron himself is supposed to be significantly better than Jordan. Yet he only won 34 games to MJ's 37? :lol

Not really. He had Prime Westbrook who won league mvp an is the all time leader in triple doubles. It's like having prime Oscar Robertson on your team. He also had peak Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard a 3x DPOY, Melo.

[theman93]

HOW? Who on that team wasn't dogshit? Malik Monk I guess? He had an equivalent season to what Chris Whitney did. Everyone else was a pretty clear net negative besides maybe Austin Reaves and Stanley Johnson who are complete scrubs on offense and just defensive hustle players every team has.

And who on MJ's team wasn't dogshit?

I would take Westbrook, Monk and Carmelo over any of the next guys on the 02 Wizards after Hamilton. And Westbrook and Hamilton may as well be equals. PLUS Lebron had AD for half of the season. The rest are toss ups. Let's not act like the 02 Wizards were anything more than a bunch of certified scrubs.

[theman93]

https://i.ibb.co/PQjQ4g0/lebron.png

https://i.ibb.co/DQgr77R/jordan.png

:biggums:

[Xiao Yao You]

And who on MJ's team wasn't dogshit?

I would take Westbrook, Monk and Carmelo over any of the next guys on the 02 Wizards after Hamilton. And Westbrook and Hamilton may as well be equals. The rest are toss ups. Let's not act like the 02 Wizards weren't anything more than a bunch of certified scrubs.

I'd take Hamilton over Westbrick any day.

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine bragging about a 30-30 record in a historically weak conference.

Individually, LeBron blew Wizards MJ out of the water last season.

[Xiao Yao You]

Imagine bragging about a 30-30 record in a historically weak conference.

Individually, LeBron blew Wizards MJ out of the water last season.

there's no minimum game limit I take it?

[1987_Lakers]

And who on MJ's team wasn't dogshit?

I would take Westbrook, Monk and Carmelo over any of the next guys on the 02 Wizards after Hamilton.

2022 Melo & Westbrook, lol really? Both are net negatives at this point of their careers. Good riddance. 2022 Melo was one of the worst defenders I've ever seen, no lie.

[theman93]

2022 Melo & Westbrook, lol really? Both are net negatives at this point of their careers. Good riddance. 2022 Melo was one of the worst defenders I've ever seen, no lie.

Yeah, really. Are you going to act like Chris Whitney, Popeye Jones, Jahidi White and the rest of those scrubs were net positives? Lmaooooooo

[theman93]

Imagine bragging about a 30-30 record in a historically weak conference.

Individually, LeBron blew Wizards MJ out of the water last season.

2022 Lebron is so significantly better than old decrepit 2002 Wizards MJ that he went 26-31 to MJ's 30-30 with a better roster. :roll:

The 2022 Western Conference teams averaged a whole whopping 1.4 more wins per game than the historically all-time weak 2002 Eastern Conference teams. Very impressive. :lol

[kawhileonard2]

2022 Melo & Westbrook, lol really? Both are net negatives at this point of their careers. Good riddance. 2022 Melo was one of the worst defenders I've ever seen, no lie.

2022 Melo won a scoring title, 2022 Westbrook already had won a league mvp and is the all time leader in triple doubles. Also Dwight Howard who beat Lebron without HCA is a 3x DPOY.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

[theman93]

I'd take Hamilton over Westbrick any day.

What about AD? :roll:

[RRR3]

And who on MJ's team wasn't dogshit?

I would take Westbrook, Monk and Carmelo over any of the next guys on the 02 Wizards after Hamilton. And Westbrook and Hamilton may as well be equals. PLUS Lebron had AD for half of the season. The rest are toss ups. Let's not act like the 02 Wizards were anything more than a bunch of certified scrubs.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ok, you're actually retarded, I didn't realize what I was dealing with. Westbrook was arguably the least valuable player in the NBA last year. Carmelo is maybe the worst defender in the league, he's a big negative most of the time. How did LeBron have AD for half the season when LeBron missed a lot of time too? :lol

[kawhileonard2]

I'd take Hamilton over Westbrick any day.

Westbrook won league mvp and is the all time leader in triple doubles.

[1987_Lakers]

2022 Lebron is so significantly better than old decrepit 2002 Wizards MJ that he went 26-31 to MJ's 30-30 with a better roster. :roll:

The 2022 Western Conference teams averaged a whole whopping 1.4 more wins per game than the historically all-time weak 2002 Eastern Conference teams. Very impressive. :lol

MJ had a 47 TS% in '02 when the league average was 52%. Not to mention he wasn't much of a playmaker, he was nothing more than a chucker on many nights.

Compare that to LeBron who averaged 30 points on 62 TS% and gave you his usual playmaking skills.

It isn't even close to be honest.

[RRR3]

Yeah, really. Are you going to act like Chris Whitney, Popeye Jones, Jahidi White and the rest of those scrubs were net positives? Lmaooooooo
Chris Whitney had a 1.8 BPM and a TS% significantly above league average, completely comparable to Monk. Westbrook is about as useful as benchwarmers yes, did you watch him play at all? :lol

[theman93]

2022 Melo won a scoring title, 2022 Westbrook already had won a league mvp and is the all time leader in triple doubles. Also Dwight Howard who beat Lebron without HCA is a 3x DPOY.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

38 year old washed up decrepit MJ really led his group of Wizard scrubs to a better record than Lebron did his Lakers who were a top 2 Finals favorite? Say it ain't so lmaoooo

[1987_Lakers]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ok, you're actually retarded, I didn't realize what I was dealing with. Westbrook was arguably the least valuable player in the NBA last year. Carmelo is maybe the worst defender in the league, he's a big negative most of the time. How did LeBron have AD for half the season when LeBron missed a lot of time too? :lol

It's obvious he doesn't follow today's NBA, he thinks Tatum is better than Luka, lol.

[RRR3]

MJ had a 47 TS% in '02 when the league average was 52%. Not to mention he wasn't much of a playmaker, he was nothing more than a chucker on many nights.

Compare that to LeBron who averaged 30 points on 62 TS% and gave you his usual playmaking skills.

It isn't even close to be honest.
Also wouldn't Doug Collins be considered a much better coach than Vogel? The Lakers would have been mediocore regardless but Vogel cost them probably about 10+ games with his stupidity.

[RRR3]

It's obvious he doesn't follow today's NBA, he thinks Tatum is better than Luka, lol.
Lmao WHAT

[kawhileonard2]

Jordan is the only one who 3 peated in this group and did so twice for the franchise that drafted him that never won prior to him arriving without ever playing with a guy who won league mvp or finals mvp.

[1987_Lakers]

That version of MJ couldn't even beat a random dude in 1 on 1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7U74Dg04k&t

LeBron in his exhibition game was dropping 40+ vs much better players than John Rogers. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJ8hY84_S8

[theman93]

Chris Whitney had a 1.8 BPM and a TS% significantly above league average, completely comparable to Monk. Westbrook is about as useful as benchwarmers yes, did you watch him play at all? :lol

Chris Whitney :roll::roll: I guarantee you don't even know who he is and never even watched a minute that he played.

Reaves, Monk, Ellington, and Anthony all had TS% over league average. So what?

[theman93]

MJ had a 47 TS% in '02 when the league average was 52%. Not to mention he wasn't much of a playmaker, he was nothing more than a chucker on many nights.

Compare that to LeBron who averaged 30 points on 62 TS% and gave you his usual playmaking skills.

It isn't even close to be honest.

Interesting, so how did MJ who was significantly worse than Lebron, lead the Wizards to a better record than Lebron led the Lakers to in 2022 when on top of that MJ had a worse or at best equal supporting cast?

[1987_Lakers]

Chris Whitney :roll::roll: I guarantee you don't even know who he is and never even watched a minute that he played.

Reaves, Monk, Ellington, and Anthony all had TS% over league average. So what?

And MJ had below average TS%.

[Xiao Yao You]

What about AD? :roll:

Big Dantley fan. Not sure I'd want him on my team though

[RRR3]

Chris Whitney :roll::roll: I guarantee you don't even know who he is and never even watched a minute that he played.

Reaves, Monk, Ellington, and Anthony all had TS% over league average. So what?
He had a 1.8 BPM. No one the Lakers besides LeBron, Davis or Sekou Doumboya (who played 16 total minutes) even had a 0.0 BPM, everyone else was negative :lol

Are you acting like Malik Monk wasn't considered a complete ****ing scrub before he played with LeBron? Dude couldn't get time on the ****ing Hornets :yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

Interesting, so how did MJ who was significantly worse than Lebron, lead the Wizards to a better record than Lebron led the Lakers to in 2022 when on top of that MJ had a worse or at best equal supporting cast?

Bad fits. Westbrook ruined the team. Vogel was a terrible offensive coach, Melo was atrocious on defense etc.

By your logic, '09 & '10 LeBron > '88 & '89 MJ since LeBron led his team to a better record without having much of a cast.

[theman93]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ok, you're actually retarded, I didn't realize what I was dealing with. Westbrook was arguably the least valuable player in the NBA last year. Carmelo is maybe the worst defender in the league, he's a big negative most of the time. How did LeBron have AD for half the season when LeBron missed a lot of time too? :lol

2022 Westbrick had a higher TS% than Hamilton did in 02. Hamilton also had a worse DBPM than 2022 Westbrick. Remind me how great Hamilton was again in 02? Rofllllllllllllll

[RRR3]

Interesting, so how did MJ who was significantly worse than Lebron, lead the Wizards to a better record than Lebron led the Lakers to in 2022 when on top of that MJ had a worse or at best equal supporting cast?
Coaching and variance. Doug Collins also didn't insist on starting Tyronn Lue and letting him shoot 20 times a game, which would be the equivalent of Vogel with Westbrook. You can't honestly think MJ was better at that point, dude was completely done.

[theman93]

He had a 1.8 BPM. No one the Lakers besides LeBron, Davis or Sekou Doumboya (who played 16 total minutes) even had a 0.0 BPM, everyone else was negative :lol

Are you acting like Malik Monk wasn't considered a complete ****ing scrub before he played with LeBron? Dude couldn't get time on the ****ing Hornets :yaohappy:

Are you acting like the 2002 Wizards weren't also complete scrubs? :roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

2022 Westbrick had a higher TS% than Hamilton did in 02. Hamilton also had a worse DBPM than 2022 Westbrick. Remind me how great Hamilton was again in 02? Rofllllllllllllll
Did he have a worse TS% relative to the league average? Not even close he was only a little below league average while Westbrook was massively below league average. DPBM has been criticized by its own creators as inaccurate, and both Hamilton and Whitney good OBPMs.

[Axe]

Coach thinking that 33 y.o. WB is the same as prime WB is hilarious af.

[1987_Lakers]

2022 Westbrick had a higher TS% than Hamilton did in 02. Hamilton also had a worse DBPM than 2022 Westbrick. Remind me how great Hamilton was again in 02? Rofllllllllllllll

Only one problem there, Westbrook had a 51.2 TS%, when league average TS% was 56.6

Rip had a 51.1 TS% when league average was 52%.

So Rip was around league average while Westbrook was well below league average.

Try again.

[RRR3]

Are you acting like the 2002 Wizards weren't also complete scrubs? :roll: :roll:
Like 1987 said, "By your logic, '09 & '10 LeBron > '88 & '89 MJ since LeBron led his team to a better record without having much of a cast."

The concept of team record completely reflecting a player's value is one championed by feeble minded people.

[RRR3]

Only one problem there, Westbrook had a 51.2 TS%, when league average TS% was 56.6

Rip had a 51.1 TS% when league average was 52%.

So Rip was around league average while Westbrook was well below league average.

Try again.
He's extremely dimwitted.

[theman93]

Bad fits. Westbrook ruined the team. Vogel was a terrible offensive coach, Melo was atrocious on defense etc.

By your logic, '09 & '10 LeBron > '88 & '89 MJ since LeBron led his team to a better record without having much of a cast.

Doug Collins was also not a good coach. The 02 Wizards also were bad fits. They also had atrocious defenders. Every excuse for Lebron in 2022 Jordan has in 2002.

As for 09/10 Lebron vs 88/89 MJ, they were close. However 02 MJ and 22 Lebron allegedly aren't close at all. Yet somehow MJ did more with less while being a worse player. :lol

[kawhileonard2]

Like 1987 said, "By your logic, '09 & '10 LeBron > '88 & '89 MJ since LeBron led his team to a better record without having much of a cast."

The concept of team record completely reflecting a player's value is one championed by feeble minded people.

Lebron had Ben Wallace who won as the only allstar on the team that won it all and was a 3x DPOY. He had Shaq who had 3x finals mvp's and a league mvp. Both times lost with HCA.

MJ hadn't had someone who won league mvp or finals mvp or DPOY.

[Axe]

Doug Collins was also not a good coach.
Lmao maybe you should try telling 3ball that. :kobe:

[RRR3]

Doug Collins was also not a good coach. The 02 Wizards also were bad fits. They also had atrocious defenders. Every excuse for Lebron in 2022 Jordan has in 2002.

As for 09/10 Lebron vs 88/89 MJ, they were close. However 02 MJ and 22 Lebron allegedly aren't close at all. Yet somehow MJ did more with less while being a worse player. :lol
They're close even though LeBron won way more games with a similar cast? By your own logic LeBron was easily better.

[Bawkish]

That version of MJ couldn't even beat a random dude in 1 on 1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7U74Dg04k&t

LeBron in his exhibition game was dropping 40+ vs much better players than John Rogers. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJ8hY84_S8

LMAO pulling desperation card like this is funny as sh*t

[Xiao Yao You]

2022 Westbrick had a higher TS% than Hamilton did in 02. Hamilton also had a worse DBPM than 2022 Westbrick. Remind me how great Hamilton was again in 02? Rofllllllllllllll

wonderful! I wouldn't want him on my team anyway. The fact that anyone thought he was a good idea on the Lakers is hilarious! Who said Hamilton was great?

[1987_Lakers]

Doug Collins was also not a good coach. The 02 Wizards also were bad fits. They also had atrocious defenders. Every excuse for Lebron in 2022 Jordan has in 2002.

As for 09/10 Lebron vs 88/89 MJ, they were close. However 02 MJ and 22 Lebron allegedly aren't close at all. Yet somehow MJ did more with less while being a worse player. :lol

No, by your logic LeBron was clearly superior. :lol

And next time adjust for league average TS% if you want to compare that stat across eras without looking clueless.

You're welcome

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron had Ben Wallace who won as the only allstar on the team that won it all and was a 3x DPOY. He had Shaq who had 3x finals mvp's and a league mvp. Both times lost with HCA.

MJ hadn't had someone who won league mvp or finals mvp or DPOY nor HCA.

[RRR3]

No, by your logic LeBron was clearly superior. :lol

And next time adjust for league average TS% if you want to compare that stat across eras without looking clueless.

You're welcome
Haters are generally incapable of consistency.

[HoopsNY]

This isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. LeBron was 37 this season. MJ was 38 turning 39 in 2001-02, and he was three years removed from the league.

Hamilton was a worse defender than Westbrook in 2001-02. And LeBron had AD, Westbrook, Melo, Monk, and Howard, a better core than anything MJ had in 2001-02. MJ's cast was horrid. Somehow they were 14th in DRTG before his injury, (106 overall for the season with MJ), 21st in the regular season. The Lakers had a 114 DRTG with LeBron (they were 21st this season at 113 DRTG overall).

Not to mention, Jordan had his team at a 26-20 record, many of those games without Rip, prior to his injury. They were in playoff contention. Also the 2001-02 season was the height of the defensive era. Teams averaged just 95.5 PPG compared to what, 110.6 now?

Jordan put up 25/6/5/2 but fell off a cliff after the injury. If he's not retiring and continued to go and you give him any mix of AD, Westbrook, Melo, Monk, and Howard, then I think he'd probably have as good, if not a better record than LeBron, even at an older age.

[RRR3]

This isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. LeBron was 37 this season. MJ was 38 turning 39 in 2001-02, and he was three years removed from the league.

Hamilton was a worse defender than Westbrook in 2001-02. And LeBron had AD, Westbrook, Melo, Monk, and Howard, a better core than anything MJ had in 2001-02. MJ's cast was horrid. Somehow they were 14th in DRTG before his injury, (106 overall for the season with MJ), 21st in the regular season. The Lakers had a 114 DRTG with LeBron (they were 21st this season at 113 DRTG overall).

Not to mention, Jordan had his team at a 26-20 record, many of those games without Rip, prior to his injury. They were in playoff contention. Also the 2001-02 season was the height of the defensive era. Teams averaged just 95.5 PPG compared to what, 110.6 now?

Jordan put up 25/6/5/2 but fell off a cliff after the injury. If he's not retiring and continued to go and you give him any mix of AD, Westbrook, Melo, Monk, and Howard, then I think he'd probably have as good, if not a better record than LeBron, even at an older age.
Ok, so 09 LeBron was much better than any version of MJ in the 80s, yes? Lol at mentioning Westbrook as if he wasn't godawful. Howard? Melo? :roll: Might as well claim MJ had George Gervin at one point by this ridiculous logic.

[kawhileonard2]

2022 Melo had already won a scoring title, 2022 Westbrook already had won a league mvp and is the all time leader in triple doubles. Also Dwight Howard who beat Lebron without HCA is a 3x DPOY. That's not including Anthony Davis who led in every stat in 2020.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

[HoopsNY]

Ok, so 09 LeBron was much better than any version of MJ in the 80s, yes? Lol at mentioning Westbrook as if he wasn't godawful. Howard? Melo? :roll:

Any? No, I don't think so.

Westbrook w/Lebron: 17/7/7/1 on 43%
Westbrook w/o LeBron: 22/8/8/1 on 47%

You're saying Westbrook and Melo are awful, but did you take a look at the cast of Washington that year? Take your pick:

AD, Westbrook, Monk, Melo, Howard

or

White, Whitney, Hamilton, Jones, Laettner

It's not even close.

[RRR3]

Any? No, I don't think so.

Westbrook w/Lebron: 17/7/7/1 on 43%
Westbrook w/o LeBron: 22/8/8/1 on 47%

You're saying Westbrook and Melo are awful, but did you take a look at the cast of Washington that year? Take your pick:

AD, Westbrook, Monk, Melo, Howard

or

White, Whitney, Hamilton, Jones, Laettner

It's not even close.
So you're being inconsistent. LeBron won 66 games with role players in 2009. MJ's most wins in the 80s before Pippen became an all-star was 50. By your own logic LeBron was clearly better. Or else you'd have to admit there's more to that goes into team record than simply the best player and their supporting cast on paper. Which would mean you'd also have to admit 22 LeBron was better than Wizards MJ. Can't have it both ways.


Why are you listing Westbrook's raw stats as if they mean anything? His efficiency and impact stats were atrocious. Again why are you listing Melo and Howard? This is like saying MJ had George Gervin and Robert Parish.

[1987_Lakers]

Naming Westbrook, Melo, & Howard isn't going to impress anyone given they were past their prime. Good riddance.

[theman93]

No, by your logic LeBron was clearly superior. :lol

And next time adjust for league average TS% if you want to compare that stat across eras without looking clueless.

You're welcome

Nope, you're just incapable of understanding the argument. I've already stated Lebron was better individually in 2022 than MJ was in 2002. Yet even with that being the case, MJ somehow went 30-30 compared to Lebron going 26-31 with an even worse supporting cast. Every excuse you can give Lebron, I can give for Jordan. Lebron wasn't as conducive to his teams winning games. Pretty hilarious actually. :roll:

[kawhileonard2]

Naming Westbrook, Melo, & Howard isn't going to impress anyone given they were past their prime. Good riddance.

2022 Melo had already won a scoring title, 2022 Westbrook already had won a league mvp and is the all time leader in triple doubles. Also Dwight Howard who beat Lebron without HCA is a 3x DPOY. That's not including Anthony Davis who led in every stat in 2020.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

[theman93]

So you're being inconsistent. LeBron won 66 games with role players in 2009. MJ's most wins in the 80s before Pippen became an all-star was 50. By your own logic LeBron was clearly better. Or else you'd have to admit there's more to that goes into team record than simply the best player and their supporting cast on paper. Which would mean you'd also have to admit 22 LeBron was better than Wizards MJ. Can't have it both ways.


Why are you listing Westbrook's raw stats as if they mean anything? His efficiency and impact stats were atrocious. Again why are you listing Melo and Howard? This is like saying MJ had George Gervin and Robert Parish.

All-stars are role players? :roll:

[RRR3]

Nope, you're just incapable of understanding the argument. I've already stated Lebron was better individually in 2022 than MJ was in 2002. Yet even with that being the case, MJ somehow went 30-30 compared to Lebron going 26-31 with an even worse supporting cast. Every excuse you can give Lebron, I can give for Jordan. Lebron wasn't as conducive to his teams winning games. Pretty hilarious actually. :roll:
MJ wasn't as conducive to his team winning games as 09 and 10 LeBron until Pippen became a superstar. :confusedshrug:

[HoopsNY]

So you're being inconsistent. LeBron won 66 games with role players in 2009. MJ's most wins in the 80s before Pippen became an all-star was 50. By your own logic LeBron was clearly better. Or else you'd have to admit there's more to that goes into team record than simply the best player and their supporting cast on paper. Which would mean you'd also have to admit 22 LeBron was better than Wizards MJ. Can't have it both ways.


Why are you listing Westbrook's raw stats as if they mean anything? His efficiency and impact stats were atrocious. Again why are you listing Melo and Howard? This is like saying MJ had George Gervin and Robert Parish.

Fair point as the difference in conference matters. So you're right about that.

Westbrook's TS% was 55% without LeBron. So not sure why you're mentioning efficiency. I'm bringing up Melo and Howard because those guys were better than anything MJ had. Again, take your pick.

The point still stands.

[theman93]

Naming Westbrook, Melo, & Howard isn't going to impress anyone given they were past their prime. Good riddance.

What about Chris Whitney, Jahidi White, and Popeye Jones? Is that an impressive group? :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Nope, you're just incapable of understanding the argument. I've already stated Lebron was better individually in 2022 than MJ was in 2002. Yet even with that being the case, MJ somehow went 30-30 compared to Lebron going 26-31 with an even worse supporting cast. Every excuse you can give Lebron, I can give for Jordan. Lebron wasn't as conducive to his teams winning games. Pretty hilarious actually. :roll:

All I wanted to hear.

Goodnight.

[RRR3]

All-stars are role players? :roll:
Mo Williams was an injury replacement and career role player who only made it after LeBron complained about him not making it. Charles Oakley was also an all-star, and I don't see you holding that against MJ.

[HoopsNY]

Naming Westbrook, Melo, & Howard isn't going to impress anyone given they were past their prime. Good riddance.

You're being disingenuous. Compared to Jahidi White, Chris Whitney, and Popeye Jones? C'mon bro.

[kawhileonard2]

2022 Melo had already won a scoring title, 2022 Westbrook already had won a league mvp and is the all time leader in triple doubles. Also Dwight Howard who beat Lebron without HCA is a 3x DPOY. That's not including Anthony Davis who led in every stat in 2020.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

[theman93]

MJ wasn't as conducive to his team winning games as 09 and 10 LeBron until Pippen became a superstar. :confusedshrug:

Pippen wasn't an all-star in 1991. Yet MJ won the championship anyways. :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

Fair point as the difference in conference matters. So you're right about that.

Westbrook's TS% was 55% without LeBron. So not sure why you're mentioning efficiency. I'm bringing up Melo and Howard because those guys were better than anything MJ had. Again, take your pick.

The point still stands.
:facepalm

Jesus Christ.

And small sample size needs to be accounted for. Westbrook's TS% was 50.9% without LeBron for a whole year in 2021, and he was widely considered better that year than he was this year.

[RRR3]

You're being disingenuous. Compared to Jahidi White, Chris Whitney, and Popeye Jones? C'mon bro.
Dwight averaged 6/6 last year :lol He is Bismack Biyombo at this point. Melo is probably the worst defender in the NBA, dude can barely move. He was also horrendously inefficient for years before this but suddenly had decent efficiency again playing with LeBron, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with LeBron somehow. I'm not blaming him for being old it's just the reality.

[kawhileonard2]

MJ wasn't as conducive to his team winning games as 09 and 10 LeBron until Pippen became a superstar. :confusedshrug:

Lebron had Ben Wallace and then Shaq guys who won as the man already and yet Lebron loses with HCA.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

[HoopsNY]

:facepalm

Jesus Christ.

And small sample size needs to be accounted for. Westbrook's TS% was 50.9% without LeBron for a whole year in 2021, and he was widely considered better that year than he was this year.

I mentioned it because he improved without LeBron. Furthermore, you're stifling your conscience. You know very well LeBron had a much better cast than MJ did in 2002.

Heck, the Lakers were the favorites to win the title going into the season. Give MJ that cast and he posts a better record is my intuition, even as a Laker. You can disagree, so we'll just agree to disagree.

And you still haven't accounted for nearly a two year difference in age and MJ being removed three years from the league. MJ continuing to play plus the Lakers cast probably gets them into the play-in at least. You don't think that's at least reasonable? C'mon.

[RRR3]

Pippen wasn't an all-star in 1991. Yet MJ won the championship anyways. :confusedshrug:
He put up 18/7/6 on excellent efficiency and had an elite BPM. And second team all-defense. He then put up 22/9/6 on excellent efficiency in the playoffs while shutting down Magic Johnson. You gonna claim that isn't an all-star level player? :yaohappy:

Kyrie and Love weren't All-Stars in 2016 and LeBron won anyways by this logic.

[theman93]

@RRR3 still waiting for you to answer the question:

How did old broken down 38 year old MJ lead the Wizards to a 30-30 record in the games he played in, while Lebron who is significantly better only lead the Lakers to a 25-31 record in the games he played in? All with a worse or equal supporting cast while also starting less games?

[HoopsNY]

Dwight averaged 6/6 last year :lol He is Bismack Biyombo at this point. Melo is probably the worst defender in the NBA, dude can barely move. He was also horrendously inefficient for years before this but suddenly had decent efficiency again playing with LeBron, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with LeBron somehow. I'm not blaming him for being old it's just the reality.

Still better than anything Jahidi White could do, not to mention Howard's defense. Again, the Lakers' cast was better by a mile.

[HoopsNY]

He put up 18/7/6 on excellent efficiency and had an elite BPM. And second team all-defense. He then put up 22/9/6 on excellent efficiency in the playoffs while shutting down Magic Johnson. You gonna claim that isn't an all-star level player? :yaohappy:

Kyrie and Love weren't All-Stars in 2016 and LeBron won anyways by this logic.

Kyrie missed most of the first half of the 2016 season, which is why he wasn't an all-star. C'mon RRR3, stop it.

[RRR3]

I mentioned it because he improved without LeBron. Furthermore, you're stifling your conscience. You know very well LeBron had a much better cast than MJ did in 2002.

Heck, the Lakers were the favorites to win the title going into the season. Give MJ that cast and he posts a better record is my intuition, even as a Laker. You can disagree, so we'll just agree to disagree.

And you still haven't accounted for nearly a two year difference in age and MJ being removed three years from the league. MJ continuing to play plus the Lakers cast probably gets them into the play-in at least. You don't think that's at least reasonable? C'mon.
The Lakers were the favorite because people are idiots. The LeBron and AD Lakers were the best team in the league in 2020 and 2021 as well when they were healthy. Westbrook comes and they become a joke. And you somehow list him as a positive? That makes zero sense.

I'll agree 02 MJ was better than LeBron if you agree 09 LeBron is better than any version of MJ before Pippen became a star. But you can't be consistent can you?

[HoopsNY]

@RRR3 still waiting for you to answer the question:

How did old broken down 38 year old MJ lead the Wizards to a 30-30 record in the games he played in, while Lebron who is significantly better only lead the Lakers to a 25-31 record in the games he played in? All with a worse or equal supporting cast while also starting less games?

Their casts weren't even close. LAL's cast was better by a mile.

[theman93]

He put up 18/7/6 on excellent efficiency and had an elite BPM. And second team all-defense. He then put up 22/9/6 on excellent efficiency in the playoffs while shutting down Magic Johnson. You gonna claim that isn't an all-star level player? :yaohappy:

Kyrie and Love weren't All-Stars in 2016 and LeBron won anyways by this logic.

Your criteria was "superstar". Pippen wasn't even All-NBA until 1992. So your argument is refuted.

[HoopsNY]

The Lakers were the favorite because people are idiots. The LeBron and AD Lakers were the best team in the league in 2020 and 2021 as well when they were healthy. Westbrook comes and they become a joke. And you somehow list him as a positive? That makes zero sense.

I'll agree 02 MJ was better than LeBron if you agree 09 LeBron is better than any version of MJ before Pippen became a star. But you can't be consistent can you?

You don't have to agree that '02 MJ > '22 LeBron. But to act like the Lakers' cast wasn't better is beyond ridiculous.

[theman93]

Their casts weren't even close. LAL's cast was better by a mile.

You have to understand that I'm lowering the bar so low because apparently it's not fair to hold Lebron to the standard of making the play-in last year. LOL.

[RRR3]

Still better than anything Jahidi White could do, not to mention Howard's defense. Again, the Lakers' cast was better by a mile.
Jahidi averaged 5/6 what a difference :lol He was also a great shot blocker :confusedshrug:

[HoopsNY]

Jahidi averaged 5/6 what a difference :lol He was also a great shot blocker :confusedshrug:

Great, so now White > Howard. That's a joke and you know it. Again, which cast was better?

[RRR3]

Your criteria was "superstar". Pippen wasn't even All-NBA until 1992. So your argument is refuted.
22/9/6 with excellent efficiency with ATG defense isn't a superstar in what universe exactly?

[RRR3]

Kyrie missed most of the first half of the 2016 season, which is why he wasn't an all-star. C'mon RRR3, stop it.
Are you seriously pretending Pippen wasn't a monster in 1991?

[HoopsNY]

Are you seriously pretending Pippen wasn't a monster in 1991?

I didn't say otherwise. I'm merely contending your claim that it's an equal comparison because Kyrie didn't make the all-star team. You omitted the fact that he missed most of the first half of the season in 2016.

[RRR3]

Great, so now White > Howard. That's a joke and you know it. Again, which cast was better?
I didn't say he was better but he's a pretty similar player to this version of Dwight, yes. Dwight was 36, how many players whose games are based entirely on athleticism are good at that age? The Lakers cast was better when AD played, but he missed 42 games. When he didn't play the casts were pretty equivalent. You also have to consider Vogel lost them many games with foolish decisions.

[RRR3]

I didn't say otherwise. I'm merely contending your claim that it's an equal comparison because Kyrie didn't make the all-star team. You omitted the fact that he missed most of the first half of the season in 2016.
Why does it matter why he missed it? Pippen missing it because the voters and coaches were stupid is supposed to be any better? :lol No one thinks Kyrie is better than Pippen besides 3ball.

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron had Ben Wallace and then Shaq guys who won as the man already and yet Lebron loses with HCA.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)

:coleman:

[light]

Well Wizards Jordan was a guy that climbed out from behind a desk to try to play again, and he had his moments, and he was actually fun to watch because he was still Jordan, but, you know, he wasn't really taken seriously beyond being a spectacle or a sideshow at that point.

[HoopsNY]

Why does it matter why he missed it? Pippen missing it because the voters and coaches were stupid is supposed to be any better? :lol No one thinks Kyrie is better than Pippen besides 3ball.

Pippen was much better in the second half than he was in the first half, which is why he wasn't on the all-star team. The point is you're bringing up 2016 as if it's the same. It's not.

[theman93]

22/9/6 with excellent efficiency with ATG defense isn't a superstar in what universe exactly?

This universe. If you’re not All-NBA you’re not a super star. Period the end.

[HoopsNY]

I didn't say he was better but he's a pretty similar player to this version of Dwight, yes. Dwight was 36, how many players whose games are based entirely on athleticism are good at that age? The Lakers cast was better when AD played, but he missed 42 games. When he didn't play the casts were pretty equivalent. You also have to consider Vogel lost them many games with foolish decisions.

No he was not similar. White sucked, period. The Lakers cast was simply better. You can't conveniently delete AD from the conversation as if he didn't play at all. He did play. And with him and LeBron the team was still .500.

If LeBron is leaps and bounds over MJ, then it would have proven in the results. It didn't.

[RRR3]

Pippen was much better in the second half than he was in the first half, which is why he wasn't on the all-star team. The point is you're bringing up 2016 as if it's the same. It's not.
I was responding to a poster who acted like MJ won without star help in 91 because of a technicality. You don't get to call me out for that when you were fine with him saying something so ridiculous. As if I actually think Kyrie wasn't a star in 2016 :lol

[RRR3]

No he was not similar. White sucked, period. The Lakers cast was simply better. You can't conveniently delete AD from the conversation as if he didn't play at all. He did play. And with him and LeBron the team was still .500.

If LeBron is leaps and bounds over MJ, then it would have proven in the results. It didn't.
I'm struggling to see how Dwight Howard doesn't suck if White sucks lol. Dwight put up 7/8 on a TS% 3.8% above league average the season before he played with LeBron last year. White Put up 5/6 on a TS% 3.2% above league average but his usage percentage was 4.1% lower. His efficiency then went up a lot with LeBron, which I think we can safely credit in some part to LeBron's passing. They are both backup centers who are there to dunk and block shots and aren't good enough to play big minutes. You are also ignoring my point that the Lakers with LeBron and AD were consistently the best team in the league when healthy until this past year. Do you think it was their fault that changed or something else?

If 80s MJ is better than 09 LeBron, his results with a similar supporting cast would have proven it by your logic. :confusedshrug:

[Bawkish]

LMAO Bron stans living in The Nile river is hilarious

BTW the OP pulled a disappearing act in this thread like Bron last year in Playoffs :lol

[SATAN]

I come back to this thread and see theman93 has been obliterated and literally admitted LeBron is better yet he wants to keep arguing. :biggums:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAgg9yuqWw

What are people even arguing about at this point?

LeBron is better. Old MJ played in a weak conference. End of story.

[theman93]

Lebron was not better at elevating his team, even though he was better individually while MJ was washed. On top of having a better supporting cast. That’s the facts SATAN. Try to keep up next time.

[theman93]

LMAO Bron stans living in The Nile river is hilarious

BTW the OP pulled a disappearing act in this thread like Bron last year in Playoffs :lol

Trying to spin the 2002 Wizards that surrounded Jordan as anything more than scrubs is outright hilarious :roll:

[Axe]

Trying to spin the 2002 Wizards that surrounded Jordan as anything more than scrubs is outright hilarious :roll:
Wizards jordan didn't elevate anyone so well either. He could have led larry hughes and jerry stackhouse to a playoff berth, as well as kwame brown too. Jordan himself was so mad at the latter for being a bust even if he was his team's vp by the time the guy got drafted into the league.

[Johnny32]

kobe was horrifically bad his last season at 37...mj was definitely better than him. but yeah, no comparison on an individual level to lebron and that's why they're desperately trying to talk about team records lol.

[theman93]

Wizards jordan didn't elevate anyone so well either. He could have led larry hughes and jerry stackhouse to a playoff berth, as well as kwame brown too. Jordan himself was so mad at the latter for being a bust even if he was his team's vp by the time the guy got drafted into the league.

I never even said he was good at elevating his teammates individually. I said he was better at elevating his team as a whole. See: 30-30 vs 26-31

[Axe]

I never even said he was good at elevating his teammates individually. I said he was better at elevating his team as a whole. See: 30-30 vs 26-31
Well, he could have at least lead his team to the playoffs coach. I mean he was able to bt when the bulls had a combined 34 wins in his first two seasons in the league, right?

[1987_Lakers]

I come back to this thread and see theman93 has been obliterated and literally admitted LeBron is better yet he wants to keep arguing. :biggums:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAgg9yuqWw

What are people even arguing about at this point?

LeBron is better. Old MJ played in a weak conference. End of story.

Made him look so foolish that he had to admit LeBron was better. :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Well, he could have at least lead his team to the playoffs coach. I mean he was able to bt when the bulls had a combined 34 wins in his first two seasons in the league, right?

You realize he missed most of his 2nd season because of a broken foot right?

[theman93]

Well, he could have at least lead his team to the playoffs coach. I mean he was able to bt when the bulls had a combined 34 wins in his first two seasons in the league, right?

He had more than that his first year played moron :lol

[Axe]

You realize he missed most of his 2nd season because of a broken foot right?
Yet his team still made the playoffs despite him missing more than 60 games that season. :confusedshrug:

[theman93]

Made him look so foolish that he had to admit LeBron was better. :lol

Uhh buddy, when it's already my position that 37 year old Lebron is better than 38 year old Jordan it's not an admission. :lol

Meanwhile, this worse and washed up version of MJ was doing this with an even worse supporting cast than Lebron:

https://i.ibb.co/DQgr77R/jordan.png

https://i.ibb.co/PQjQ4g0/lebron.png

[Axe]

He had more than that his first year played moron :lol
I said combined, coach. Meaning 38 + 30 then divided by his first two seasons. Sheesh... :facepalm

[theman93]

I said combined, coach. Meaning 38 + 30 then divided by his first two seasons. Sheesh... :facepalm

Do you understand basic definitions, Axe?

Combined =/= average

:facepalm

[Axe]

Duh. The bottom line is, he still made the playoffs with a losing record. Yes or no?

[outofstomach]

I haven't moved any goal posts. This is just your excuse when you're trying to deflect. :lol

MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.can someone please explain this? im actually reading every post and it’s amazing how every lebron stan is avoiding this point :lol

[theman93]

Duh. The bottom line is, he still made the playoffs with a losing record.

"Duh" even though you didn't understand the difference until I broke it down for you. :roll:

And all Lebron needed to do to make the play-in was beat out the Spurs....with a losing record. But failed. :lol

[Axe]

Coach...

The topic here is about michael jordan's years as a wizard. Not about lekong, even if you try to say that he underachieved last season (all that while ignoring some useful context).

[1987_Lakers]

can someone please explain this? im actually reading every post and it’s amazing how every lebron stan is avoiding this point :lol

They went on a 13-2 stretch playing some bad teams.

Teams they beat in that run.

Rockets
Mavericks (Without Dirk)
Grizzlies
Heat
Knicks 2x
Raptors
Hawks
Magic
Hornets
Nets
Bulls
Clippers

Most teams on that list had a losing record.

And Keep in mind in the game they beat the Mavs, Dirk wasn't even playing. :lol

[outofstomach]

MJ wasn't as conducive to his team winning games as 09 and 10 LeBron until Pippen became a superstar. :confusedshrug:
nice deflection :lol you are such a sad excuse of a human being

[theman93]

Coach...

The topic here is about michael jordan's years as a wizard. Not about lekong, even if you try to say that he underachieved last season (all that while ignoring some useful context).

Says the guy bringing up the mid-80's :roll:

I'll give you another chance to explain: MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.

If you're excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?

[1987_Lakers]

nice deflection :lol you are such a sad excuse of a human being

He's right though.

[1987_Lakers]

Bulls went 55-27 without MJ in '94.

:roll:

[Axe]

Says the guy bringing up the mid-80's :roll:

I'll give you another chance to explain: MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.

If you're excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?
Who do you think played more games in their respective seasons?

[outofstomach]

They went on a 13-2 stretch playing very bad teams.

Teams that beat in that run.

Rockets
Mavericks (Without Dirk)
Grizzlies
Heat
Knicks 2x
Raptors
Hawks
Magic
Hornets
Nets
Bulls
Clippers

Most teams on that list had a losing record.

And Keep in mind in the game they beat the Mavs, Dirk wasn't even playing. :lol

this isn’t really the overarching point, the number one argument bron stans use to put him over Jordan is his longevity, if jordan was able to lead a team to playoff contention before he got injured + a better record than even lebron’s last season in a much more tougher defensive era, how do you square the circle?

lebron didn’t have much help last year but it was certainly way better than the cast
jordan had, that’s not even getting into all the hype and bets that were made when they acquired westbrook regardless, lebron may have performed way better individually, but it didn’t show up in the record whatsoever

[outofstomach]

He's right though.he can be right, it doesn’t make it any less of a deflection :lol

[1987_Lakers]

this isn’t really the overarching point, the number one argument bron stans use to put him over Jordan is his longevity, if jordan was able to lead a team to playoff contention before he got injured + a better record than even lebron’s last season in a much more tougher defensive era, how do you square the circle?

lebron didn’t have much help last year but it was certainly way better than the cast
jordan had, that’s not even getting into all the hype and bets that were made when they acquired westbrook regardless, lebron may have performed way better individually, but it didn’t show up in the record whatsoever

We don't play what ifs. Fact is the Wizards didn't make the playoffs and MJ's Wizards years are largely looked as a stain on his legacy.

Deal with it.

You same guys also ignoring '09 & '10 LeBron won more games than '88 & '89 MJ despite having similar casts, why is that? Why couldn't MJ elevate his teammates back then like LeBron did?

[outofstomach]

You don't have to agree that '02 MJ > '22 LeBron. But to act like the Lakers' cast wasn't better is beyond ridiculous.not even a conversation :lol

[RogueBorg]

Says the guy bringing up the mid-80's :roll:

I'll give you another chance to explain: MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.

If you're excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?

It's been obvious they can't refute your claims, so they resort to personal attacks. Classic sign that Lebronnies lost.

[theman93]

They went on a 13-2 stretch playing some bad teams.

Teams they beat in that run.

Rockets
Mavericks (Without Dirk)
Grizzlies
Heat
Knicks 2x
Raptors
Hawks
Magic
Hornets
Nets
Bulls
Clippers

Most teams on that list had a losing record.

And Keep in mind in the game they beat the Mavs, Dirk wasn't even playing. :lol

And how many of Lebron's 26 wins came against very bad teams?

[Axe]

It's been obvious they can't refute your claims, so they resort to personal attacks. Classic sign that Lebronnies lost.
All you do here is nut-lick those who have the same opinions as yours. Bozo.

[theman93]

Who do you think played more games in their respective seasons?

That's irrelevant when 60 games vs 56 games is a fair sample size. Especially when Jordan started in less games. The point here is winning %. MJ was .500 while Lebron was .446. Even though he was significantly worse.

[outofstomach]

We don't play what ifs. Fact is the Wizards didn't make the playoffs and MJ's Wizards years are largely looked as a stain on his legacy.

Deal with it.

You same guys also ignoring '09 & '10 LeBron won more games than '88 & '89 MJ despite having similar casts, why is that? Why couldn't MJ elevate his teammates back then like LeBron did?
ok im gonna ask this again

you think lebron is better than jordan, this is mainly because of his longevity

if jordan and lebron had similar records with lebron having a marginally better supporting cast + jordan literally coming out of retirement in a tougher defensive era, why are the records even remotely close or in the same ballpark as each other?

how does this make sense?

[1987_Lakers]

Can someone explain to me how 09 and 10 LeBron won more games than 80s MJ despite having similar casts?

[1987_Lakers]

Why did the Bulls still win 55 games without MJ in 94?

[RogueBorg]

not even a conversation :lol

Oh yes it is, last years failure is a huge stain against Lebron. The history books will remember the 2021-'22 Lakers as a team that had 5 Hall of Famers and 5 players that will be on the NBA's 100th Anniversary Team and failed to make the play-in.

The 2001-2003 Washington Wizards had 1 HOFer and 1 player that will be on the 100th Anniversary Team.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yet his team still made the playoffs despite him missing more than 60 games that season. :confusedshrug:

The Bulls did not want him to play that year. They wanted to lose and get a high pick. MJ forced his way onto the floor and carried a crappy team to the playoffs to the chagrin of the front office

[Baller789]

Why did the Bulls still win 55 games without MJ in 94?

Simple. The team over achieved for a single season.

[RogueBorg]

Why did the Bulls still win 55 games without MJ in 94?

Only Lebronstans think not winning the championship is a successful season.

Did the '94 Bulls win it all?

[Axe]

That's irrelevant when 60 games vs 56 games is a fair sample size. Especially when Jordan started in less games. The point here is winning %. MJ was .500 while Lebron was .446. Even though he was significantly worse.
Yet jordan has never led that team to the postseason at all. At least kong did in the recent seasons with the lakers somehow. :confusedshrug:

[RogueBorg]

Can someone explain to me how 09 and 10 LeBron won more games

Can you explain how 66-16 Lebron had home court advantage and lost in 6 to Dwight and the Magic?

Answer-He scared of Kobe

[RogueBorg]

Yet jordan has never led that team to the postseason at all. At least kong did in the recent seasons with the lakers somehow. :confusedshrug:

Lebron has now missed the playoffs 4x, twice as many as Jordan.

[theman93]

We don't play what ifs. Fact is the Wizards didn't make the playoffs and MJ's Wizards years are largely looked as a stain on his legacy.

Deal with it.

You same guys also ignoring '09 & '10 LeBron won more games than '88 & '89 MJ despite having similar casts, why is that? Why couldn't MJ elevate his teammates back then like LeBron did?

If you're paying attention the logic extends both ways. They were similar individually, but Lebron was better at elevating his teams to more wins in the regular season. Not in the playoffs though as they both were eliminated in the ECSF and ECF.

The difference you're missing when we compare 09/10 vs 88/89 and 02 vs 22, is that Lebron is supposedly significantly better individually at 37 than Jordan was at 38. And Lebron also had the better supporting cast. Yet couldn't lead his team to more wins than washed up Jordan. How is that?

[Axe]

Lebron has now missed the playoffs 4x, twice as many as Jordan.
While the bulls made the 94 playoffs without him lmao.

[Baller789]

Axe and co on a mission to bring down Jordan :oldlol:

Yet couldnt counter theman's points without ad hominems.

[1987_Lakers]

Simple. The team over achieved for a single season.

Nice cop out

[Axe]

Nice cop out
:roll:

[RogueBorg]

While the bulls made the 94 playoffs without him lmao.

Did they win the championship without him?
Did they even make the Finals without him?

[Axe]

Did they win the championship without him?
Did they even make the Finals without him?
So why didn't mj do the same without pippen? All while having worse team records without him? :confusedshrug:

[RogueBorg]

All you do here is nut-lick those who have the same opinions as yours. Bozo.

All you do here is nut-lick those who have the same opinion as yours. Loser.

[theman93]

So why didn't mj do the same without pippen? :confusedshrug:

Were the mid 90's Knicks a dynasty that Pippen ran in to? Or was Bird's Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons a dynasty that MJ ran in to?

[Axe]

The Bulls did not want him to play that year. They wanted to lose and get a high pick. MJ forced his way onto the floor and carried a crappy team to the playoffs to the chagrin of the front office
So you try to say that michael jordan was selfish bt? Interesting.

[RogueBorg]

So why didn't mj do the same without pippen? All while having worse team records without him? :confusedshrug:

Did the Bulls win the championship or make the Finals in their great successful 55-win 1994 season that you are so proud of?

[Axe]

Were the mid 90's Knicks a dynasty that Pippen ran in to? Or was Bird's Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons a dynasty that MJ ran in to?
But those aren't dynasties coach. Since someone said 'dynasties' have to 'three-peat' first. :roll:

[theman93]

We are still waiting for an explanation from RRR3 (SATAN), Axe, and 1987_Lakers to the following:

MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.

https://i.ibb.co/DQgr77R/jordan.png

https://i.ibb.co/PQjQ4g0/lebron.png

If the excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?

[Axe]

All you do here is nut-lick those who have the same opinion as yours. Loser.
Eew snowflake.

[Axe]

Did the Bulls win the championship or make the Finals in their great successful 55-win 1994 season that you are so proud of?
Who had more successful trips in the postseason between the two without the other? Bozo.

[RogueBorg]

We are still waiting for an explanation from RRR3 (SATAN), Axe, and 1987_Lakers to the following:

MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.

https://i.ibb.co/DQgr77R/jordan.png

https://i.ibb.co/PQjQ4g0/lebron.png

If the excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?

Lebronnies after that one
https://c.tenor.com/duZqIgvaKZMAAAAM/ill-just-leave-now-the-simpsons.gif

[theman93]

But those aren't dynasties coach. Since someone said 'dynasties' have to 'three-peat' first. :roll:

Regardless of how you define it (I define both the Celtics and Pistons as one - as do many other reputable sources: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1198727-nba-history-5-dynasties-better-than-the-duncan-spurs-era) they were leaps and bounds better than the 90's Knicks.

Pippen wasn't doing anything vs those teams either.

[RogueBorg]

Who had more successful trips in the postseason between the two without the other? Bozo.

You can't honestly be this stupid.

Who was more successful? Jordan has 6 championships in 15 seasons = .400 championship success rate

Lebron has 4 championships in 19 seasons = .210 championship success rate

Lebron has played with considerable more quality teammates than Jordan has an yet Jordan is more successful in every way.

Any questions?

[Axe]

Regardless of how you define it (I define both the Celtics and Pistons as one - as do many other reputable sources: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1198727-nba-history-5-dynasties-better-than-the-duncan-spurs-era) they were leaps and bounds better than the 90's Knicks.

Pippen wasn't doing anything vs those teams either.
I don't necessarily agree that they can't be dynasties, coach. But...

https://i.ibb.co/nDsdqfs/IMG-20220804-231900.jpg

[Axe]

You can't honestly be this stupid.

Who was more successful? Jordan has 6 championships in 15 seasons = .400 championship success rate

Lebron has 4 championships in 19 seasons = .210 championship success rate

Any questions?
Dumb. We were talking about jordan and pippen there, you numbskull.

[TheGoatest]

Which of the following players will along with LeBron, Kareem, Karl Malone and Duncan be better than Wizards jordon?

Durant
Curry
Kawhi

All they have to do is last that long and it's almost a given that they will be better than that poor, The Great Scott Pippen/Phil Jackson-less version of jordon.
So far, Durant, Curry and Kawhi have had plenty of rest and sat out plenty of games/seasons. Nowhere near as many as the near-5 full seasons jordon rested before he started playing with the Wizards. Even though he wasn't injured at all, by the way.

[1987_Lakers]

We are still waiting for an explanation from RRR3 (SATAN), Axe, and 1987_Lakers to the following:

MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.

https://i.ibb.co/DQgr77R/jordan.png

https://i.ibb.co/PQjQ4g0/lebron.png

If the excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?

Already answered try again

[theman93]

I don't necessarily disagree that they can't be dynasties, coach. But...

https://i.ibb.co/nDsdqfs/IMG-20220804-231900.jpg

Turns out I'm neither of those posters. What's your point? :roll:

[RogueBorg]

Dumb. We were talking about jordan and pippen there, you numbskull.

Would you like me to list all the talent Lebron has played with? It's considerably more.

[theman93]

Already answered try again

Already refuted it try again

[Axe]

Turns out I'm neither of those posters. What's your point? :roll:
You asked if either the celtics, the pistons or the knicks in the 80s and 90s were dynasties bt. And i just showed you that one. ;)

[Axe]

Would you like me to list all the talent Lebron has played with? It's considerably more.
Lol moving the goalposts as usual.

[Xiao Yao You]

So you try to say that michael jordan was selfish bt? Interesting.

selfish for wanting to play and win games? :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Already refuted it try again

No, your refute was as weak as you saying Tatum > Luka

[theman93]

No, your refute was as weak as you saying Tatum > Luka

You had no answer for it, as usual.

[1987_Lakers]

You had no answer for it, as usual.

You already admitted LeBron was better.

[RogueBorg]

I don't necessarily agree that they can't be dynasties, coach. But...

https://i.ibb.co/nDsdqfs/IMG-20220804-231900.jpg

The Spurs never won back-to-back let alone Three-Peat cheapening Lebrons strength of opponents.

[Axe]

selfish for wanting to play and win games? :roll:
Probably to win a scoring title despite missing 64 games that season. :yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

The Spurs never won back-to-back let alone Three-Peat cheapening Lebrons strength of opponents.

I guess the Showtime Lakers weren't a great team since they didn't 3 peat.

Or Bird's Celtics since they never won back to back

Low Iq confirmed.

[Axe]

The Spurs never won back-to-back let alone Three-Peat cheapening Lebrons strength of opponents.
Retarded logic lmao. For you, that seems worse than jordan's ringless opponents in the finals.

[theman93]

You asked if either the celtics, the pistons or the knicks in the 80s and 90s were dynasties bt. And i just showed you that one. ;)

You didn't show anything besides that you're wrong about me having alts lol

[Axe]

You didn't show anything besides that you're wrong about me having alts lol
Huh, i never said they were your 'alts' coach. Wtf. :confusedshrug:

What i'm pointing out there was how they apply the term 'dynasty' to successful teams. They say if they never 'three-peated', then they're never one to begin with.

[theman93]

You already admitted LeBron was better.

When that's my starting position, it's not an admission. Do you understand basic debate?

My position has been clear -
Individually: 37 y/o Lebron > 38 y/o MJ
Team Elevation: 38 y/o MJ > 37 y/o Lebron

You've done nothing to dispute this fact. :lol

[theman93]

Huh, i never said they were your 'alts' coach. Wtf. :confusedshrug:

What i'm pointing out there was how they apply the term 'dynasty' to successful teams. They say if they never 'three-peated', then they're never one to begin with.

Why do I care how 2 other posters are applying the term dynasty? It's irrelevant. The point being is that Jordan facing the 80's Celtics and 80/90's Pistons is a significantly harder challenge than facing the 90's Knicks.

[Xiao Yao You]

Probably to win a scoring title despite missing 64 games that season. :yaohappy:


https://www.sportscasting.com/frustrated-michael-jordan-fuming-when-bulls-tried-secure-better-draft-position-1986/


“That’s when I felt more frustrated than anything. More than anything, I felt they were positioning themselves for the draft, and I didn’t feel good being part of that. I felt I was an all-out player who didn’t half-ass anything, and they wanted to move up (in the draft). I was a player, I wanted to play.”




keep reaching! :lol

[Axe]

Why do I care how 2 other posters are applying the term dynasty? It's irrelevant. The point being is that Jordan facing the 80's Celtics and 80/90's Pistons is a significantly harder challenge than facing the 90's Knicks.
Probably. But that doesn't explain why jordan never had any winning seasons until pippen started playing for the bulls.

[RogueBorg]

I guess the Showtime Lakers weren't a great team since they didn't 3 peat.

Or Bird's Celtics since they never won back to back

Low Iq confirmed.

The Three-Peat requirement for a dynasty is not my definition, Axe is the one throwing it out there. My definition is at least back-to-back titles.

Yes, Boston never won back-to-back but neither did San Antonio. The Lakers and Pistons are dynasties.

[RogueBorg]

Retarded logic lmao. For you, that seems worse than jordan's ringless opponents in the finals.

Are the Spurs a dynasty?

The Bulls opponents are ringless because they kept them ringless. Unlike Lebron where teams won alot against him.