Scottie Pippen: [Today's players are better than my era] Steve Smith: "Totally agree"

[Shogon]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/--y8QwzvrD4

Let the trolling commence.

And before you ask... no, it will not embed. YouTube shorts do not.

[GOBB]

Everything today is generally better than before. With sports and athletes? They will always evolve. That doesn’t mean I’m going to put MJ beneath anyone. Or claim Pippen in yesterdays rules couldnt strap up todays offensive players. Players are faster, stronger, more skilled (especially ball handling). The technology and training is different. Like good job breaking the news pippen and Smitty

[3ba11]

These guys don't realize that today's players are bad at contested 2-point shot-making

If it isn't an in-stride layup or three, today's player looks bad taking the kind of tough shots that previous eras were forced to take due to lack of spacing

Everyone looks better with wide open spacing and an open court

Everyone looks better when defenders' can't touch or impede

Everyone looks better with a wide open paint

So Pippen, Smitty and others are just misguided and fooled by the spacing, HD and recency bias.. They think ball-dominance and three-pointers = better basketball players.. But that's false... Basketball is about contested shot-making and previous eras were far superior at it.. Otoh, today's open shots are a function of spacing strategy - if previous eras had today's spacing strategy, it would look exactly the same as today

Previous eras look uglier because the format had them taking tougher shots.. It's like college format (tougher) vs pro format (easier)

[Xiao Yao You]

These guys don't realize that today's players are bad at contested 2-point shot-making

If it isn't an in-stride layup or three, today's player looks bad taking the kind of tough shots that previous eras were forced to take due to lack of spacing

Everyone looks better with wide open spacing and an open court

Everyone looks better when defenders' can't touch or impede

Everyone looks better with a wide open paint

So Pippen, Smitty and others are just misguided and fooled by the spacing, HD and recency bias.. They think ball-dominance and three-pointers = better basketball players.. But that's false... Basketball is about contested shot-making and previous eras were far superior at it.. Otoh, today's open shots are a function of spacing strategy - if previous eras had today's spacing strategy, it would look exactly the same as today

Previous eras look uglier because the format had them taking tougher shots.. It's like college format (tougher) vs pro format (easier)

layups are an adventure to many guys today. Rarely ever see guys use their opposite hand even. We grew up doing that stuff in the lay up line. I see it at junior jazz where kids that can't even make a lay up are launching 3's. Fundamentals suck today unless you think launching 3's and palming the ball are the only skills there are

[3ba11]

layups are an adventure to many guys today. Rarely ever see guys use their opposite hand even. We grew up doing that stuff in the lay up line. I see it at junior jazz where kids that can't even make a lay up are launching 3's. Fundamentals suck today unless you think launching 3's and palming the ball are the only skills there are


The lack of spacing made contested shots the standard and expectation, so everyone developed their own individually-unique way of making contested shots.. That's why no one played like Kareem, Bird, Magic, etc - everyone played differently

Otoh, today's spacing strategy yields open layups and threes - it looks pretty, but it doesn't mean players are better because they're much worse at contested shot-making, as required in lesser-spaced environments like previous eras or international play.. But if previous eras had today's wide open spacing and strategy, the game would look exactly the same as today

[FultzNationRISE]

These guys don't realize that today's players are bad at contested 2-point shot-making

If it isn't an in-stride layup or three, today's player looks bad taking the kind of tough shots that previous eras were forced to take due to lack of spacing

Everyone looks better with wide open spacing and an open court

Everyone looks better when defenders' can't touch or impede

Everyone looks better with a wide open paint

So Pippen, Smitty and others are just misguided and fooled by the spacing, HD and recency bias.. They think ball-dominance and three-pointers = better basketball players.. But that's false... Basketball is about contested shot-making and previous eras were far superior at it.. Otoh, today's open shots are a function of spacing strategy - if previous eras had today's spacing strategy, it would look exactly the same as today

Previous eras look uglier because the format had them taking tougher shots.. It's like college format (tougher) vs pro format (easier)


:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Top to bottom, the league is definitely more talented.

Along with three pointers, the rules also helped open up today's game. Combine that with all the coaching, footage, new medicine and training...dont see how players wouldn't be more skilled.

[E_Stamkos]

Humans have evolved since the 90's. Real ground breaking revelation here.


*lifts leg and farts

[Phoenix]

These guys don't realize that today's players are bad at contested 2-point shot-making

If it isn't an in-stride layup or three, today's player looks bad taking the kind of tough shots that previous eras were forced to take due to lack of spacing

Everyone looks better with wide open spacing and an open court

Everyone looks better when defenders' can't touch or impede

Everyone looks better with a wide open paint

So Pippen, Smitty and others are just misguided and fooled by the spacing, HD and recency bias.. They think ball-dominance and three-pointers = better basketball players.. But that's false... Basketball is about contested shot-making and previous eras were far superior at it.. Otoh, today's open shots are a function of spacing strategy - if previous eras had today's spacing strategy, it would look exactly the same as today

Previous eras look uglier because the format had them taking tougher shots.. It's like college format (tougher) vs pro format (easier)

But of course, 3ball knows better. Shut the fukk up.

[ralph_i_el]

These guys don't realize that today's players are bad at contested 2-point shot-making

If it isn't an in-stride layup or three, today's player looks bad taking the kind of tough shots that previous eras were forced to take due to lack of spacing

Everyone looks better with wide open spacing and an open court

Everyone looks better when defenders' can't touch or impede

Everyone looks better with a wide open paint

So Pippen, Smitty and others are just misguided and fooled by the spacing, HD and recency bias.. They think ball-dominance and three-pointers = better basketball players.. But that's false... Basketball is about contested shot-making and previous eras were far superior at it.. Otoh, today's open shots are a function of spacing strategy - if previous eras had today's spacing strategy, it would look exactly the same as today

Previous eras look uglier because the format had them taking tougher shots.. It's like college format (tougher) vs pro format (easier)

^This

But it's covered up by the fact that way more people worldwide are competing for NBA spots. There's a wider pool of people to pull from, so the average role player probably has better size/athletecism, and we have a few more stars from overseas that we might not have had in prior eras (ie: Some 7' Cameroonian kid in 1980 never touched a basketball that would have today).

On a related note, 3Ball has had me thinking about navigational efficiency and scoring with less space. I've been incorporating scoring out of the triple threat/face up while dribbling the least amount I can, and my game has taken off. I'm holding my own now with guys that were a lot better than me a year or two ago. I think there's a serious gap in how young basketball players are being coached these days. He's on to something folks. The ability to get a shot off without needing space, screens, or 10 fancy dribbles is the purest magic in basketball, just touch and timing.

[Axe]

The lack of spacing made contested shots the standard and expectation, so everyone developed their own individually-unique way of making contested shots.. That's why no one played like Kareem, Bird, Magic, etc - everyone played differently

Otoh, today's spacing strategy yields open layups and threes - it looks pretty, but it doesn't mean players are better because they're much worse at contested shot-making, as required in lesser-spaced environments like previous eras or international play.. But if previous eras had today's wide open spacing and strategy, the game would look exactly the same as today
Uno

[bizil]

More skilled??? Absolutely! But thing is I STILL don't see a perimeter player throwing down sick hammers as CONSISTENTLY as Dominique in game! I still don't see BETTER floor generals than Magic, Isiah, or Stockton. CP3 is the only PG in today's league that would be on that type of level or close. Pass first floor general PG's like a CP3 are dying breed.

I STILL don't see a perimeter player in today's game who combines freak athletic ability, scoring skillset, passing, positional versatility, and defense like MJ did. Embid and Joker are beasts for sure. BUT I would still take Dream and Shaq over them. I still don't see a forward in the league who combines shooting and passing as well as Bird.

[3ba11]

the rules also helped open up today's game. Combine that with all the coaching, footage, new medicine and training...dont see how players wouldn't be more skilled


.


^^^ all that makes today's players less skilled because you need less skill to score with spacing than without, or less skill to score with without any physicality than with physicality.

So you have it backwards

Look at Ja Morant - trash - he doesn't know how to play basketball and his moves are garbage.. For example, compare his crossover to Iverson's - Iverson's was textbook and Ja's is an obvious travel and unpolished

Oh wait... Iverson is an unathletic stiff because he played in Jordan's era, lol.. The era argument works in Jordan's favor - he played without all the benefits that make the game easier (spacing, no physicality, etc)

[TheGoatest]

Humans have evolved since the 90's. Real ground breaking revelation here.


*lifts leg and farts

You'd think that jordon extremist alts would be aware of this fact.
Whereas everyone else has moved on from the notion that George Mikan (considered hands down the best player in the league in 6 of the 7 seasons he played, won a championship in 5 of the 7 seasons he played) is the GOAT, jordon extremist alts continue to troll on by saying that jordon is the GOAT.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

^^^ all that makes today's players less skilled because you need less skill to score with spacing than without, or less skill to score with without any physicality than with physicality.

So you have it backwards

Look at Ja Morant - trash - he doesn't know how to play basketball and his moves are garbage.. For example, compare his crossover to Iverson's - Iverson's was textbook and Ja's is an obvious travel and unpolished

Oh wait... Iverson is an unathletic stiff because he played in Jordan's era, lol.. The era argument works in Jordan's favor - he played without all the benefits that make the game easier (spacing, no physicality, etc)

Yeah...you're definitely confused.

Having access to games going back...10-20-30 years ago is a huge advantage. Better training and nutrition means more durability, so again, another advantage.

Your only point is about spacing, but that coincides with three pointers. Rules too just to a lesser degree. Now you must be able to shoot and get open, which means moving without the ball. As a result players don't get as many post ups, but consequently net more points. On better efficiency too. Top to bottom, today's player is more complete. Period. Its why you have positionless basketball.

[insight]

Top to bottom, the league is definitely more talented.

Along with three pointers, the rules also helped open up today's game. Combine that with all the coaching, footage, new medicine and training...dont see how players wouldn't be more skilled.

IMO Many of the current players are fundementally flawed, they travel and carry the ball on a routine basis these things are not called in the modern NBA. The league is full of young kids who should still be in college learning the game and perfecting thier skills but they are now learning on the job at the NBA level.
Generally speaking European players are more skilled and fundementally than their US counter parts, this wasn't the case in previous eras.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

IMO Many of the current players are fundementally flawed, they travel and carry the ball on a routine basis these things are not called in the modern NBA. The league is full of young kids who should still be in college learning the game and perfecting thier skills but they are now learning on the job at the NBA level.
Generally speaking European players are more skilled and fundementally than their US counter parts, this wasn't the case in previous eras.

I get what you're saying, but players back then also traveled.

The NBA has changed what is and isn't a travel since the shotclock was introduced :lol Ditto with carrying. Definitely agree with today's euro players being more skilled. Many of them are pros in their teens though. They get a nice head start.

Defense was at its best in the early 2000s imo. Whereas traditional 'fundamentals' probably peaked in the 80s and 90s. The constant adjustment of the rules played a big part in that.

[Round Mound]

Better long range and 3-point shooters today that's about it. All handles today are carrys

[ImKobe]

It doesn't really matter. Basketball history is about the eras. Even if you think the 90s was worse overall in terms of talent (duh), MJ dominated his era more than any other player did theirs if we go by statistical domination + rings + Finals record. MJ didn't have the advantages that the modern athletes do either.

[Axe]

It doesn't really matter. Basketball history is about the eras. Even if you think the 90s was worse overall in terms of talent (duh), MJ dominated his era more than any other player did theirs if we go by statistical domination + rings + Finals record. MJ didn't have the advantages that the modern athletes do either.
With or without scottie pippen? He was a factor in those title runs too.

[1987_Lakers]

It doesn't really matter. Basketball history is about the eras. Even if you think the 90s was worse overall in terms of talent (duh), MJ dominated his era more than any other player did theirs if we go by statistical domination + rings + Finals record. MJ didn't have the advantages that the modern athletes do either.
George Mikan dominated his era as much as MJ and won a bunch of chips, yet nobody has him in the top 20.

[ImKobe]

With or without scottie pippen? He was a factor in those title runs too.

Go find Spurs m8 or someone who's dumb enough to entertain your low IQ takes because you clearly don't have the ability to add anything of substance to a basketball argument.

[ImKobe]

George Mikan dominated his era as much as MJ and won a bunch of chips, yet nobody has him in the top 20.

I'm fine with having Mikan as the GOAT. Guess that's another player who moves Bran further down the GOAT list.

[Axe]

Go find Spurs m8 or someone who's dumb enough to entertain your low IQ takes because you clearly don't have the ability to add anything of substance to a basketball argument.
Isn't it true? He's the only other guy with six rings not named 'michael jordan' during that watered-down era. :confusedshrug:

[SATAN]

I'm fine with having Mikan as the GOAT. Guess that's another player who moves Bran further down the GOAT list.

And therefore Kobe out of the top 15.

[outofstomach]

Yeah...you're definitely confused.

Having access to games going back...10-20-30 years ago is a huge advantage. Better training and nutrition means more durability, so again, another advantage.

Your only point is about spacing, but that coincides with three pointers. Rules too just to a lesser degree. Now you must be able to shoot and get open, which means moving without the ball. As a result players don't get as many post ups, but consequently net more points. On better efficiency too. Top to bottom, today's player is more complete. Period. Its why you have positionless basketball.
yes all of the traveling, carrying and open rim runs = more skilled :lol lots of you have never picked up a ball before and it shows

[Baller789]

yes all of the traveling, carrying and open rim runs = more skilled :lol lots of you have never picked up a ball before and it shows

Funnily enough, if we apply old school rules to modern players, they would be barely be able to bring the ball down the court without being called for the palming violation.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

yes all of the traveling, carrying and open rim runs = more skilled :lol lots of you have never picked up a ball before and it shows

Never said that, goof. Reading is fundamental.

You're beyond naïve to think players weren't traveling and carrying in the 80s and 90s. Compared to the 60s and 70s, most of their 'handes' would also be considered illegal.

Far as me not picking up a ball...I played rec, club and highschool ball until I was 18. And when I can still get high quality pickup in. What about you? lol